Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4

[WeekapaugGroove]

As this team moves into more of the win now phase of the rebuild I really hope they learn from the mistakes of the D'Antoni era and never stop developing young players. I truly believe that their constant trading of draft picks and refusal to develop young players cost them a championship. Had they hit on just one of those picks they gave away it could have been the guy that put them over the top. Smart teams are always trying to add young cheap controllable talent. Heck look at the crazy stacked Warriors team they have bought early second round picks that got them Bell and McCaw.

Now I'm not saying you can't trade any picks if there's some opportunist deal available for a veteran but you shouldn't go to that well too often or you get yourself in trouble.

[Saberestar]

Saw on the wiretap that The Cavs are willing to trade Thompson and the Pistons are willing to trade Stanimal.

Thompson is out of the question for multiple reasons IMO.
But would you guys consider a flier on Johnson? Not sure how he's doing this year.

I like Stanley Johnson's potential, but he is a non shooter SF, and we have Warren and Jackson already on the team for the next 4 seasons.

I would pass, I do not like the fit.

[Waylay13]

Yup. Our number 1 priority should be appeasing Booker. Waiting will lead to further repercussions down the road. Not a risk I'm willing to take.

I would say that our #1 priority is to build a championship team. Right now the best path to get there appears to include Booker but it is also important to remember with is that he wants a max 150 million deal that he cant get form anyone else besides the Suns and he cant get it till after next year. So odds are he isnt going anywhere for a while.

Yes, absolutely, because without Booker, we're starting all over. We've taken the 'build through the draft' route, and IMO, we've squeezed all we can out via that way. I know many want us to 'tank' 'just one more year', because once we get 'X player' we'll be set.

Well, rewind 12 months, insert Josh Jackson's name into that statement. Because that was mantra around here. Well, we did that. Now, that JJ hasn't come in and propelled us to instant glory, here we are again; we need to tank just once more and get Doncic, Young, Ayton, Bamba, whoever.

Then, when THAT rookie doesn't provide instant success, we'll see the phrase come out again...'We need to tank one more year; all we need is x player, and we'll be set!"


Point is, I think we are closer than we think,and what I just showed is a worst case scenario...

First of all you ever think any player is going to come in and make impact in their first season you are crazy. I was and still am one of the biggest supporters for selecting JJ in the draft. Really I am getting what I expected out of him. I have seen him provide us with some good defense and some times where his all around play has shined but I didn't expect that he would suddenly turn this team into a playoff team.

The path the Suns should be taking is that you collect resources (young players, draft picks, caproom, etc) and then you take time let them develop and build a long term team. We are seeing last years rookies get better and even seeing improvement from Len this year. what you dont do is give away all of resources just to get back into the playoffs and then find out you dont have the enough talent to stay there.

[ATTL]

I see some parallels between this team and the one Nash joined in 2004. Booker, TJ, JJ, bender, chriss compared to Marion, amare, JJ.

[bwgood77]

You didn't read what I wrote. I said guys can be locked up but that doesn't mean they can't force their way out. Players and agents these days have more power than they ever had.

Booker will sign his max deal but that doesn't mean he can't force his way out for any number of reasons. To say a guys on a contract so they'll be content playing on a crap team is ridiculous. Morris has his own situation and Bledsoe had his. The only comparison I made, if you've read what I wrote, is that they both had years on their deals yet they forced McD's hand and got traded.

I read what you wrote. Those guys wanted out for specific personal circumstances related to money/family. Different scenario. I just think it's pathetic fans are worried about that while a guy is on a rookie contract...barely more than halfway through it and will almost certainly accept a max deal and seems very happy. People just make things up to get worried about.

Sometimes it almost seems like the same people who think our team is on the cusp are the ones afraid Booker will leave because it's not good enough. Not talking about anyone specifically, but it feels that way sometimes.

[Cutter]

I see some parallels between this team and the one Nash joined in 2004. Booker, TJ, JJ, bender, chriss compared to Marion, amare, JJ.

Agree completely! Last night I was looking at the 2004-05 Suns roster when Nash joined the Suns and took them to a 62-20 season. The prior 2003-04 year the Suns (with Amare, Marion, Joe Johnson, Barbosa, McDeyss) won 29 games. Steve came in and rocked the world with all of the young talent Phoenix had accumulated. Nash-Amare-Marion really changed the way the game was played with the 7 seconds or less approach and relentlessly attacking the basket.

I don't know where to find another Nash, but we are closer to relevance than many think.......

[ATTL]

I see some parallels between this team and the one Nash joined in 2004. Booker, TJ, JJ, bender, chriss compared to Marion, amare, JJ.

Agree completely! Last night I was looking at the 2004-05 Suns roster when Nash joined the Suns and took them to a 62-20 season. The prior 2003-04 year the Suns (with Amare, Marion, Joe Johnson, Barbosa, McDeyss) won 29 games. Steve came in and rocked the world with all of the young talent Phoenix had accumulated. Nash-Amare-Marion really changed the way the game was played with the 7 seconds or less approach and relentlessly attacking the basket.

I don't know where to find another Nash, but we are closer to relevance than many think.......

Some may not want to hear it, but i think Trae is our best shot at that kind of player. Adding a talent upgrade at point and signing an upgrade at center should push us into the playoffs next year with continued growth internally.

[Saberestar]

I see some parallels between this team and the one Nash joined in 2004. Booker, TJ, JJ, bender, chriss compared to Marion, amare, JJ.

Agree completely! Last night I was looking at the 2004-05 Suns roster when Nash joined the Suns and took them to a 62-20 season. The prior 2003-04 year the Suns (with Amare, Marion, Joe Johnson, Barbosa, McDeyss) won 29 games. Steve came in and rocked the world with all of the young talent Phoenix had accumulated. Nash-Amare-Marion really changed the way the game was played with the 7 seconds or less approach and relentlessly attacking the basket.

I don't know where to find another Nash, but we are closer to relevance than many think.......

Chris Paul would be perfect next to our youngsters...but I do not think we are his favourite destination.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I see some parallels between this team and the one Nash joined in 2004. Booker, TJ, JJ, bender, chriss compared to Marion, amare, JJ.

Agree completely! Last night I was looking at the 2004-05 Suns roster when Nash joined the Suns and took them to a 62-20 season. The prior 2003-04 year the Suns (with Amare, Marion, Joe Johnson, Barbosa, McDeyss) won 29 games. Steve came in and rocked the world with all of the young talent Phoenix had accumulated. Nash-Amare-Marion really changed the way the game was played with the 7 seconds or less approach and relentlessly attacking the basket.

I don't know where to find another Nash, but we are closer to relevance than many think.......

Chris Paul would be perfect next to our youngsters...but I do not think we are his favourite destination.

I like Paul for this squad as well, but of course I agree.

This is the reason I don't feel the apparently dire need some fans feel to make a move to fill out the PG position right now: a lot of contenders build organically until they're one piece away, and then they sign that piece. The players we have on the roster with maybe some minor additions could carry us all the way there if they continue to develop, but they don't need to. We have plenty of picks, and plenty of big time players get taken later in the draft - happens every year. So maybe we draft one more guy that puts us over the top. But even if that fails, all we have to do is get to where we're just one piece away. Once we're there, players of that caliber will want to be here. And then every offseason will be an opportunity for us to push over the top.

The key is not locking yourselves into bad contracts and failing to develop young talent. You ship guys out too early and your peak will never be the whole league's peak. You pick up bad contracts and you'll struggle to keep things together year after year. But if you can stay patient and hang on to your young guys, you'll get there eventually.

Our time is coming. Just stay the course.

... And seriously, if Josh Jackson puts it all together, he'll be a killer. Too many around here seem not to see what I do. Josh Jackson for Kemba Walker -- pssh!

[NavLDO]

From Zach Lowe:

A lot of those questions surround Whiteside, who hasn't looked right since returning from a bone bruise in his knee. The Heat play a crisper style with Olynyk at center, and they have left Whiteside on the bench in crunch time of almost every recent game.

"It's tough, but I don't want to get caught up in it," Whiteside says. "We're winning. But of course you want to be out there."

Johnson is Miami's best power forward, and spacing gets cramped when he and Whiteside share the floor; defenders slough away from Johnson to clog Whiteside's rim-runs. Spoelstra has upped the shooting by starting Olynyk and Whiteside together, and bringing Johnson off the bench. It's awkward. Olynyk has to defend power forwards or wings. The Heat are minus-24 in the 118 minutes Whiteside and Olynyk have shared the floor, per NBA.com. Olynyk's shooting unlocks the Dragic-Whiteside spread pick-and-roll, but the Heat offense -- still just 23rd in points per possession after fattening up on an easy schedule over the past month -- can't subsist on a steady diet of that.

Spoelstra prefers more ball and player movement. The offense comes alive when Spoelstra shifts Olynyk to center alongside Johnson. Those groups feature at least four solid shooters, and sometimes five playmakers. Johnson is the supreme connector, skittering from one side to the other with a delightful, unselfish hyperactivity. He can effectively play center, setting screens and rolling with four shooters around him.

Whiteside's post game has atrophied. He has hit just 41.8 percent of post-up attempts, per Synergy, 43rd among 52 players who have attempted at least 50 such shots. Factor in fouls drawn, turnovers, and kickout passes that lead to shots, and Whiteside has been one of the half-dozen least productive post-up players in the league, per data from Second Spectrum.

Spoelstra of late has moved toward a closing lineup of Richardson, Dragic, Ellington, James Johnson, and Olynyk. Whether the Heat can survive on defense with Olynyk at center is an open question, but that five-man group has blitzed teams so far.


It is notable for whom it does not include: Whiteside, Justise Winslow, and Dion Waiters.

Together, Winslow and Whiteside form Miami's best realistic trade package -- their only means of a huge talent upgrade. (The Heat have shown zero interest in moving Dragic, per league sources.) The Heat could dangle them for a star center on an expiring contract -- DeAndre Jordan or DeMarcus Cousins. Miami has an appetite for that kind of gamble; they feel they can sell any willing rental on Heat culture -- plus tax benefits and weather. The word "willing" is key there. Miami's ultra-physical, workaholic culture isn't for everyone; there at a least a few players in the league who would hesitate to sign there if they had an equal offer elsewhere, per league sources.

Even so, before the season, Whiteside for Cousins was my favorite potential fake trade in the league, though it required New Orleans falling out of the playoff race. The Pelicans have hung in. Meanwhile, the trade values of Whiteside and Winslow are cratering at exactly the wrong moment. Very few teams need centers.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22017334/zach-lowe-goran-dragic-hassan-whiteside-miami-heat-nba

It's like I said the other day; Heat fans who think they can come in here and keep offering a guy like Whiteside for their 2 picks back are crazy.

1. He doesn't fit our #Timeline, or whatever that derned thing is called...
2. His contract is too much; I understand the contract they gave him, but now, it's not something we are looking to pick up
3. He's always broken, and has ONE season where he started a full season; that's it

And then now, these reports are coming out about him...do Heat fans think we don't follow the news stories, either?

They need to understand that when they traded those picks to us for Dragic, they were getting a productive PG who was 28 YO on a $7.5M/yr contract (maybe equivalent to $9.5-10M now) for two more seasons.

Then they come in here, with a nearly 32YO Dragic, making almost twice as much, and want back the same deal??? Huh??

That's like going to your Car dealership and buying a 2015 Model car, putting 36000 miles on it, taking it back to the dealership, and asking them to take it back for the same price you paid for it...never mind the depreciation, or the fact that you got the use of it for 3 years...(I know, not the best of analogies, but in this case, I think it's a good one, since we traded Dragic in his Prime (New Car) and he's no longer in his prime (used car).

I'll be happy to take Bam Adebayo off their hands for the 2 picks back, though. To me, that's worth the uncertainty of the 2 picks, but funny, Heat fans don't seem interested in offering him for their 2 picks back.

[pidi]

you cant compare any actual player on our roster to the amares, marions, jjs, not One guy.. booker is an allstar in the making, jackson/bender/chriss did not prove a Thing thus far... marion was a beast, so was ama're. who else than booker is a beast?!?!

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[thamadkant]

The Suns would be one of the few teams with enough cap room to sign Isaiah Thomas this offseason to a deal he would like. How would you guys feel about bringing him back on a close to max deal?

His defense with Booker in the backcourt would be a problem but we do need a quality Point Guard so Booker can go back to SG where he is the most effective.

Thomas is not signing with Suns.


Secondly....as good as Thomas is offensively He and Booker don't fit each other because defense will suffer so much.

Thomas was perfect fit in Celtics with defensive wings around him.


Thomas would be perfect on a team like Knicks who has scrappy players and Porzingis. They need offense big time.


I'm on the boat that Suns should not rush getting a PG... Unless it's someone like Bradley on a good contract.


Suns should actually re evaluate their center position and try to get Cousins or Davis caliber big man to help free up Booker and the perimeter offense.



As long as the PG isn't a ball hog like Mike James.. Suns can run Booker minutes there and not lose too much ground. But they need an inside player who will dominate enough to open up the perimeter and slashing lanes.

[carey]

Somehow Stanley Johnson's shooting has gotten worse every year. He's now at .348% from the field in year 3.

[thamadkant]

Cousins may think that Davis will get pried away by either Celtics or Warriors... He may want out of New Orleans. He may consider a lower max offer and tell Pelicans he does not want to come back.

I think players like Bender and Chriss would suit next to a dominant center inside also.

[carey]

I don't know where to find another Nash, but we are closer to relevance than many think.......

Yeah, man. Just need to sign a soon to be 2-time MVP. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

[carey]

Cousins may think that Davis will get pried away by either Celtics or Warriors... He may want out of New Orleans. He may consider a lower max offer and tell Pelicans he does not want to come back.

I think players like Bender and Chriss would suit next to a dominant center inside also.

That isn't happening. Also, him and AD are tight as hell. If AD is going to bolt, DMC will know ahead of time.

[jredsaz]

you cant compare any actual player on our roster to the amares, marions, jjs, not One guy.. booker is an allstar in the making, jackson/bender/chriss did not prove a Thing thus far... marion was a beast, so was ama're. who else than booker is a beast?!?!

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Then you can compare Booker. Lol. I agree the situations are not identical but they are similar. One undervalued free agent won't have that kind of impact but maybe it will have a similar impact, vaulting a 29 win team into the 45-50 win range and a playoff berth.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

you cant compare any actual player on our roster to the amares, marions, jjs, not One guy.. booker is an allstar in the making, jackson/bender/chriss did not prove a Thing thus far... marion was a beast, so was ama're. who else than booker is a beast?!?!

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Those guys were 22, 25 and 23, respectively, when Nash joined. And JJ wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire at that point. If we add our 'Nash' summer after next and our core guys will be 23, 22, 22, 21 and 26, respectively -- not to mention whomever we draft this year.

Pretty close...

[NavLDO]

Saw on the wiretap that The Cavs are willing to trade Thompson and the Pistons are willing to trade Stanimal.

Thompson is out of the question for multiple reasons IMO.
But would you guys consider a flier on Johnson? Not sure how he's doing this year.

Why is Thompson out of the question?? Rim protection? Shooting? Contract? Yes?? I tend to agree, just curious what your reasons were. He's overpaid for what he does/provides, and now Cleveland wants to get out of the remaining 2 1/2 years at approx $18M per of his contract? Yeah. No thanks.

Stanimal, however, I'd consider, based upon his size, and his numbers are trending in the right direction, whereas TT's are going in the wrong direction. And Stanley's %s are a bit misleading; 75% of all his shots are from 10ft or longer, and while he should have better %s still, I'm ok with where they are at for a 21YO. He has favorable length, in that in his own draft class, his span was longer than Kaminsky, Olynyk, and Zeller at 6'11.5", which is also longer than Warren's, even though Warren is taller by a couple inches.

Anyway, he'd be an intriguing 'get', but having 3 SFs fighting for minutes would be pointless; we'd have to trade Warren, and see what else we could get in return.

As you all know, I'm terrible at these, but what if we offered this trade...

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycmawpyy

We got our Center of the future, and they very well might have gotten theirs...depending on how they want to play it. They also get an upgrade at SF, while we go younger.

DET: R. Jackson / Bradley / Warren / Harris / Monroe or Len

PHX: Ulis or Canaan / Booker / Stanimal / Chriss / Drummond

or, for those of you who don't mind having a likely SA perp on the team (I do, and whether it happens more than I probably want to know, this one made it to the public's eye, so to me, no need to go looking for a person of his ilk)

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ybxe6y52

DET: RJ / Galloway / Warren / Harris / Monroe or Len

PHX: Bradley / Booker / Stanimal / Chriss / Drummond

I think in either case, we help both teams. Drummond is a monumental upgrade over Chandler. Stanimal is a downgrade, but with JJ, and the fact that eventually he's likely the better, more well rounded talent, this works better for us. Then, we have our All-Star Center, and just need a young PG to round it all out. Detroit, in the meantime, get's a better player than Stanimal, with more impact, and Monroe/Len should be able to fill in the vacancy well enough that Drummond leaves. WE don;t give Len the opportunity, but Detroit will. I just think that both teams will use the resources better than the current teams are using them now, and in the long run, makes it a smart move for both teams.

I don't care about the specifics of which player moves, etc. but if Drummond and Stanimal can be the pieces that come to us, i think that would be great for us. Doubt Detroit would part with Drummond, though...they'll offer like Leuer, Tolliver, or Ish...

[NavLDO]

Spoiler:

I agree we don't have a starting caliber PG, but I think there are better times/ways to address it than at the trade deadline. Kemba Walker, George Hill, Tyreke Evans, etc. that are available now are not any better than Bledsoe was and don't take us to the playoffs if added at this point of year.

The reason that I say these are short-term moves is because they are on short-term contracts that will either expand or be gone. Tyreke expires this offseason and is playing his way to a decent contract, Hill is entering his 30s and is only guaranteed for $1M of his $19M in 2019/2020 so he's a prime "waive" candidate to clear up space, and Kemba is going to get the same contract we were afraid Bledsoe would get while being marginally better. I know I'm focusing on those 3, but they're the only realistic ones I can think of outside of maybe Ricky Rubio (aka 6'4" Ulis).

I'm all for addressing the PG position. I hate watching Ulis as our starter as much as anyone. Whether it's drafting one, trying to trade our pick for a big time guard to put next to Book, or chasing one in free agency, I don't care as long as it's a smart, sustainable option. I just think it's best to not chase a car we can't catch right now, and we can get more potential trade value to use toward addressing that position by holding pat. If Ulis is the starter or still getting big minutes next year, then I'm pissed.

I think you are overlooking what kemba could do for us. I TOTALLY agree with you on your stance with picking up any PG that would strap us financially and be 'old', but Kemba would only be 28 next season, and IMO, if we could get him to sign with us long term after this contract was up, we'd get 6-8 good years out of him. Just look at these guys this season (top link), remembering that THIS season is an anomaly for Tyreke Evans (which when you see by opening the 2nd link, which is their entire careers, is plain as day, is by and far his best season ever...) But Walker is at the top of every meaningful category in both. Not to mention, he was an All-Star last year, and that is what we are looking for, right?

http://bkref.com/tiny/kQvkI

http://bkref.com/tiny/WMttk

Kemba is not in the same league as these other scrubs being discussed; if we can get Kemba, I say we do whatever we can to get him, up to and including taking on Batum's ridiculously bad contract.

Charlotte is a hot mess, and they have no way to get out from under it so long as they have Batum and Howard. One draft pick this year is not going to do it. We, however, can absorb Batum, IF we get our All-Star PG of the future in the process.

Again, go look at Kemba's numbers...22/6/3.5, with a .850 FT% on 5 Att/gm. He's avg'd 1.4 Stls/gm over his career, an ORtg of 113 over his last 2 seasons plus this one, and he's on pace for another 9-ish WS season. The dude is ALMOST exactly what we need; he'd be perfect if he was a couple years younger, but being 27 right now is so much better than a 31 YO Hill or Dragic at a higher cost for less performance.

So, the only thing we'd be missing is that stud Center, but if we were able to maintain Len, and draft one in the late lotto...which is easy since there are 10 1st Rd talents EASY in this class, I think we'd be in a great spot to compete, and yes, I do mean next season with, remember, potentially another 112 games for our young'ns to develop before the playoffs next year.

So, by virtue of taking on Batum, that's a huge 'price' right there, so I don't think we'd have to give up a whole heck of a lot, but enough to get them 'rolling' on their next rebuild.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ydxngrwo + Mia '18 1st and MIL 1st

No idea what pieces would be best for them, but figure JJ's a new start for them over MKG, and Chriss as well, so we can concentrate on Bender.

Kemba / Booker / Warren / Bender / Len or Chimeze Metu

Gives them their pick, a guaranteed top 5, so, at worst, I'll say Trae Young, so their rebuild COULD be short, then they get the Mia 1st pick. The Mil 1st will likely be 2020, so, at worst, they COULD trot out...

Young / Lamb / JJ / Chriss / Howard

That's not bad, and if I were them, I'd jump all over that deal...

I'd rather trade up for Trae this summer and keep cap flexible to sign a big.

I have absolutely no issue with that, either, but I believe Trae Young is now firmly entrenched as a top 6 pick (that could change, of course). I would love it if we could take any number of assets not names Booker, Warren/JJ, or Bender/Chriss, and trade up to a point where we could select either Doncic or Young, all the while saving our cap space for, preferably, Boogie, actually. I now he has his issues, but with him, and the rest our core...wow...instant contender next year, IMO. I'll pretend we pick Doncic, and in order to do so, we had to trade Warren and Bender.

Doncic / Booker / JJ / Chriss / Boogie

BK / Daniels / Reed / then...some mix of Peters, Dudley, Sauce, Chandler