Markelle Fultz Discussion III: For Fultz and going forward (see 2017 draft thread for trade discussion)

[ProcessDoctor]

With all the extremes in this thread, the most realistic scenario is still that Fultz is in the middle of changing his shot. He hasn't mastered it, and you can tell he's clearly working hard on it to get it to where he wants.

Let's just be patient the way we've been the last few years with this thing and see where it goes. TTP.

[Bum Adebayo]

He will return next season.

[joyeuxnoel]

call it a skill or whatever you want, but as soon as i saw stauskas struggle in sac i knew he was mentally weak. Ditto for fultz, hes actually more mentally weak than Stauskas. Fultz struggles from confidence issues primarily. Guy is gonna cash out like Royce White, luckily for him hes rich now because he looks hideous

[thenbaman]

Bunch of dopes,try talking out of your mouths for once.

[Wilfried]

call it a skill or whatever you want, but as soon as i saw stauskas struggle in sac i knew he was mentally weak. Ditto for fultz, hes actually more mentally weak than Stauskas. Fultz struggles from confidence issues primarily. Guy is gonna cash out like Royce White, luckily for him hes rich now because he looks hideous

Making a psychological analyses of a person based on a 5 second glimpse is an incredible skill indeed. You're going to make a lot of psychs without a job if you continue like that

[PhilasFinest]

With all the extremes in this thread, the most realistic scenario is still that Fultz is in the middle of changing his shot. He hasn't mastered it, and you can tell he's clearly working hard on it to get it to where he wants.

Let's just be patient the way we've been the last few years with this thing and see where it goes. TTP.

At what point do we stop being patient though?
When does the non-sense stop?

Seriously.
This isn’t some kid who had a torn ACL that were rehabbing to try and prevent a setback.
He didn’t break his foot that were concerned with re-injury.
He’s not from Europe and we’re waiting a year till bring him over.

We paid a HEFTY price to move up and take Fultz with the #1 pick. He was healthy, played in the SL and then mysteriously 2 months later.....has a sore shoulder and forgets how to shoot and play basketball?

then the team decides to string the fans along week after week with short, brief BS updates/excuses and all we get is 20 second clips from writers of him shooting like Amir Johnson.

They need to come out and say “he’s coming back and this is the likely date” or he forgot how to play basketball and we need to hide him for a year to try and not make Big collar look like a bigger a-hole then he already does.

[LloydFree]

call it a skill or whatever you want, but as soon as i saw stauskas struggle in sac i knew he was mentally weak. Ditto for fultz, hes actually more mentally weak than Stauskas. Fultz struggles from confidence issues primarily. Guy is gonna cash out like Royce White, luckily for him hes rich now because he looks hideous

Every player who struggles isn't mentally weak. Sometimes the player just isn't good enough or has flaws in his game that won't allow him to be successful. Every #1 pick who struggled has had the label "mentally weak" placed on him. But that isnt always the case. Sometimes the player isn't as good as the evaluator's thought.

[bryanwithawhy]

call it a skill or whatever you want, but as soon as i saw stauskas struggle in sac i knew he was mentally weak. Ditto for fultz, hes actually more mentally weak than Stauskas. Fultz struggles from confidence issues primarily. Guy is gonna cash out like Royce White, luckily for him hes rich now because he looks hideous

Every player who struggles isn't mentally weak. Sometimes the player just isn't good enough or has flaws in his game that won't allow him to be successful. Every #1 pick who struggled has had the label "mentally weak" placed on him. But that isnt always the case. Sometimes the player isn't as good as the evaluator's thought.

I would agree with this but I think his example of Stauskas was very good. Nik lost the mojo he had at Michigan -- a shooter is very much like a golfer or a kicker in football. You need to have insane confidence and once you start to doubt yourself the shot stops falling.

[sixers hoops]

call it a skill or whatever you want, but as soon as i saw stauskas struggle in sac i knew he was mentally weak. Ditto for fultz, hes actually more mentally weak than Stauskas. Fultz struggles from confidence issues primarily. Guy is gonna cash out like Royce White, luckily for him hes rich now because he looks hideous

Every player who struggles isn't mentally weak. Sometimes the player just isn't good enough or has flaws in his game that won't allow him to be successful. Every #1 pick who struggled has had the label "mentally weak" placed on him. But that isnt always the case. Sometimes the player isn't as good as the evaluator's thought.

I would agree with this but I think his example of Stauskas was very good. Nik lost the mojo he had at Michigan -- a shooter is very much like a golfer or a kicker in football. You need to have insane confidence and once you start to doubt yourself the shot stops falling.

But there are too many variables to just chalk it up to confidence. In the NBA he is playing against bigger, stronger, faster defenders. He is primarily expected to shoot from an extended three point area. He is prob seeing less clean looks. He is getting less opportunities to find a rhythm since he is not a offensive focal point. He may be confident, but just not good enough to have an impact at the pro level.

[chris4celts]

FWIW, my theory is that he hit the weights HARD (too hard) after Summer League. There are pictures of him shirtless looking like a bodybuilder after Summer League. I think it may be a combination of some type of weight lifting injury + being too muscle bound. Too inflexible. He changed his body in a very short period of time and he has not adjusted and/or he hurt himself.

[LloydFree]

call it a skill or whatever you want, but as soon as i saw stauskas struggle in sac i knew he was mentally weak. Ditto for fultz, hes actually more mentally weak than Stauskas. Fultz struggles from confidence issues primarily. Guy is gonna cash out like Royce White, luckily for him hes rich now because he looks hideous

Every player who struggles isn't mentally weak. Sometimes the player just isn't good enough or has flaws in his game that won't allow him to be successful. Every #1 pick who struggled has had the label "mentally weak" placed on him. But that isnt always the case. Sometimes the player isn't as good as the evaluator's thought.

I would agree with this but I think his example of Stauskas was very good. Nik lost the mojo he had at Michigan -- a shooter is very much like a golfer or a kicker in football. You need to have insane confidence and once you start to doubt yourself the shot stops falling.

I don't agree with that. Its more to it than that. This kind of thing happens to college shooters all of the time when they go up a level in competition. The loss of confidence isn't some magic switch that got turned off in their head. Its an inability to get clean shots up against better athletes, from farther away from the basket. Playing against better players saps their confidence.

Stauskas is a terrible athlete in comparison to top level NBA competition. Having to rush to get his shot up before getting stripped or blocked by superior athletes is what messed him up. JJ Redick was the most irrationally confident shooter college basketball has ever seen. Then he got to the NBA and had to make 5 years worth of adjustments just to get shots up without feeling rushed.

Fultz making adjustments to his shot isn't a problem on its own. He was going to have to do that anyway, because he doesn't have the burst to create the space for easy shots. The problem isn't Fultz's, its the 76ers'. They're the ones embarrassed by his struggles, and making the situation weird. They should have anticipated the struggles and the adjustments that he needed.

[Daytonflores]

FWIW, my theory is that he hit the weights HARD (too hard) after Summer League. There are pictures of him shirtless looking like a bodybuilder after Summer League. I think it may be a combination of some type of weight lifting injury + being too muscle bound. Too inflexible. He changed his body in a very short period of time and he has not adjusted and/or he hurt himself.

100% agree, I’ve always thought this.. look at his shoulders/arms shortly before the draft v. @ WU

Read on Twitter

Now obviously he was fine in the SL after the draft, but I assume he put on even more muscle way too fast before the season started which caused the imbalance

For the record, I think his shot will be back (soon). It’s way too hasty to be calling him a bust lol

[ProcessDoctor]

With all the extremes in this thread, the most realistic scenario is still that Fultz is in the middle of changing his shot. He hasn't mastered it, and you can tell he's clearly working hard on it to get it to where he wants.

Let's just be patient the way we've been the last few years with this thing and see where it goes. TTP.

At what point do we stop being patient though?
When does the non-sense stop?

Seriously.
This isn’t some kid who had a torn ACL that were rehabbing to try and prevent a setback.
He didn’t break his foot that were concerned with re-injury.
He’s not from Europe and we’re waiting a year till bring him over.

We paid a HEFTY price to move up and take Fultz with the #1 pick. He was healthy, played in the SL and then mysteriously 2 months later.....has a sore shoulder and forgets how to shoot and play basketball?

then the team decides to string the fans along week after week with short, brief BS updates/excuses and all we get is 20 second clips from writers of him shooting like Amir Johnson.

They need to come out and say “he’s coming back and this is the likely date” or he forgot how to play basketball and we need to hide him for a year to try and not make Big collar look like a bigger a-hole then he already does.

I'm 100% with you on feeling frustrated. This is a very atypical situation and sucks for the fans. We've been through dumb crap like this before.

Remember when Embiid was so close to coming back, doing between the leg dunks then was shelved for the season? Now, look what we have with him.

Remember when at this time last year Simmons was practicing with no timetable for a return, then he was out for the year? Today, he looks like our second budding superstar.

We have to zoom out and look at the big picture. Right now we're comparing ourselves to GS and Boston, and saying how we're not good enough. Those teams are CAPPED out with their best players either entering or in the midst of their primes.

There are no promises with Fultz, but all I'm asking is we be patient, look at the big picture, and see that we're still headed in the right direction. We were 28-54 last year and are already on pace to be a .500 team despite several blown leads! That's in year one of Simmons and year two of Embiid.

Let's just wait and see what we have with Fultz this season and next, then go from there.

[joyeuxnoel]

Every player who struggles isn't mentally weak. Sometimes the player just isn't good enough or has flaws in his game that won't allow him to be successful. Every #1 pick who struggled has had the label "mentally weak" placed on him. But that isnt always the case. Sometimes the player isn't as good as the evaluator's thought.

I would agree with this but I think his example of Stauskas was very good. Nik lost the mojo he had at Michigan -- a shooter is very much like a golfer or a kicker in football. You need to have insane confidence and once you start to doubt yourself the shot stops falling.

I don't agree with that. Its more to it than that. This kind of thing happens to college shooters all of the time when they go up a level in competition. The loss of confidence isn't some magic switch that got turned off in their head. Its an inability to get clean shots up against better athletes, from farther away from the basket. Playing against better players saps their confidence.

Stauskas is a terrible athlete in comparison to top level NBA competition. Having to rush to get his shot up before getting stripped or blocked by superior athletes is what messed him up. JJ Redick was the most irrationally confident shooter college basketball has ever seen. Then he got to the NBA and had to make 5 years worth of adjustments just to get shots up without feeling rushed.

Fultz making adjustments to his shot isn't a problem on its own. He was going to have to do that anyway, because he doesn't have the burst to create the space for easy shots. The problem isn't Fultz's, its the 76ers'. They're the ones embarrassed by his struggles, and making the situation weird. They should have anticipated the struggles and the adjustments that he needed.

yes but the major difference between stauskas and redick other than skill is stauskas is mentally weak. Demarcus used to toy with him and call him out. The guy is a bieber fan for christ sake.

You are right that Fultz isn’t as good as people claimed he was, not even close. But the guy is aboslutely mentally soft, he won’t even shoot when reporters are in the vicinity. Guy’s a bum

[76ciology]

FWIW, my theory is that he hit the weights HARD (too hard) after Summer League. There are pictures of him shirtless looking like a bodybuilder after Summer League. I think it may be a combination of some type of weight lifting injury + being too muscle bound. Too inflexible. He changed his body in a very short period of time and he has not adjusted and/or he hurt himself.

100% agree, I’ve always thought this.. look at his shoulders/arms shortly before the draft v. @ WU

Read on Twitter

Now obviously he was fine in the SL after the draft, but I assume he put on even more muscle way too fast before the season started which caused the imbalance

For the record, I think his shot will be back (soon). It’s way too hasty to be calling him a bust lol

Makes some sense. I also injured my shoulders badly after doing heavy benchpress over time

[LloydFree]

I would agree with this but I think his example of Stauskas was very good. Nik lost the mojo he had at Michigan -- a shooter is very much like a golfer or a kicker in football. You need to have insane confidence and once you start to doubt yourself the shot stops falling.

I don't agree with that. Its more to it than that. This kind of thing happens to college shooters all of the time when they go up a level in competition. The loss of confidence isn't some magic switch that got turned off in their head. Its an inability to get clean shots up against better athletes, from farther away from the basket. Playing against better players saps their confidence.

Stauskas is a terrible athlete in comparison to top level NBA competition. Having to rush to get his shot up before getting stripped or blocked by superior athletes is what messed him up. JJ Redick was the most irrationally confident shooter college basketball has ever seen. Then he got to the NBA and had to make 5 years worth of adjustments just to get shots up without feeling rushed.

Fultz making adjustments to his shot isn't a problem on its own. He was going to have to do that anyway, because he doesn't have the burst to create the space for easy shots. The problem isn't Fultz's, its the 76ers'. They're the ones embarrassed by his struggles, and making the situation weird. They should have anticipated the struggles and the adjustments that he needed.

yes but the major difference between stauskas and redick other than skill is stauskas is mentally weak. Demarcus used to toy with him and call him out. The guy is a bieber fan for christ sake.

You are right that Fultz isn’t as good as people claimed he was, not even close. But the guy is aboslutely mentally soft, he won’t even shoot when reporters are in the vicinity. Guy’s a bum

I don't think Fultz is a bum and I don't know if he's mentally weak. He's just not nearly as good as he's been built up, so it's inevitable that he's going to disappoint. Not his fault, IMO.

[rzzzzz]

I don't think Fultz is a bum and I don't know if he's mentally weak. He's just not nearly as good as he's been built up, so it's inevitable that he's going to disappoint. Not his fault, IMO.

i thought he looked great in the SL game against Boston (w/Tatum and Brown on board). a little raw for prime time, but doing all the things i was hoping he'd do. if THAT guy showed up at camp, i wouldn't be disappointed. but right now, i can't argue with you. whatever happened in the off season was a real kick in the gut.

[joyeuxnoel]

I don't agree with that. Its more to it than that. This kind of thing happens to college shooters all of the time when they go up a level in competition. The loss of confidence isn't some magic switch that got turned off in their head. Its an inability to get clean shots up against better athletes, from farther away from the basket. Playing against better players saps their confidence.

Stauskas is a terrible athlete in comparison to top level NBA competition. Having to rush to get his shot up before getting stripped or blocked by superior athletes is what messed him up. JJ Redick was the most irrationally confident shooter college basketball has ever seen. Then he got to the NBA and had to make 5 years worth of adjustments just to get shots up without feeling rushed.

Fultz making adjustments to his shot isn't a problem on its own. He was going to have to do that anyway, because he doesn't have the burst to create the space for easy shots. The problem isn't Fultz's, its the 76ers'. They're the ones embarrassed by his struggles, and making the situation weird. They should have anticipated the struggles and the adjustments that he needed.

yes but the major difference between stauskas and redick other than skill is stauskas is mentally weak. Demarcus used to toy with him and call him out. The guy is a bieber fan for christ sake.

You are right that Fultz isn’t as good as people claimed he was, not even close. But the guy is aboslutely mentally soft, he won’t even shoot when reporters are in the vicinity. Guy’s a bum

I don't think Fultz is a bum and I don't know if he's mentally weak. He's just not nearly as good as he's been built up, so it's inevitable that he's going to disappoint. Not his fault, IMO.

He’s the complete opposite of Donovan Mitchell. Personality wise

[chris4celts]

FWIW, my theory is that he hit the weights HARD (too hard) after Summer League. There are pictures of him shirtless looking like a bodybuilder after Summer League. I think it may be a combination of some type of weight lifting injury + being too muscle bound. Too inflexible. He changed his body in a very short period of time and he has not adjusted and/or he hurt himself.

100% agree, I’ve always thought this.. look at his shoulders/arms shortly before the draft v. @ WU

Read on Twitter

Now obviously he was fine in the SL after the draft, but I assume he put on even more muscle way too fast before the season started which caused the imbalance

For the record, I think his shot will be back (soon). It’s way too hasty to be calling him a bust lol

Thanks for finding this picture. That's a big change in a short time. I personally don't want my PG to look like a body builder either. Curry , Kyrie, etc. don't look like that.

[Daytonflores]

FWIW, my theory is that he hit the weights HARD (too hard) after Summer League. There are pictures of him shirtless looking like a bodybuilder after Summer League. I think it may be a combination of some type of weight lifting injury + being too muscle bound. Too inflexible. He changed his body in a very short period of time and he has not adjusted and/or he hurt himself.

100% agree, I’ve always thought this.. look at his shoulders/arms shortly before the draft v. @ WU

Read on Twitter

Now obviously he was fine in the SL after the draft, but I assume he put on even more muscle way too fast before the season started which caused the imbalance

For the record, I think his shot will be back (soon). It’s way too hasty to be calling him a bust lol

Thanks for finding this picture. That's a big change in a short time. I personally don't want my PG to look like a body builder either. Curry , Kyrie, etc. don't look like that.

And on top of it being a big change in a short time, he’s still a teenager whose body is still growing. The imbalance was inevitable

However, it does show that the work ethic is there. And once he mediates his body with his shot, he has the potential to be an ideal height & weight for a guard