The ROTY/Rookie Discussion Thread, Part III

[JellosJigglin]

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The shot has been looking good, but I don't even care about the numbers. The fact of the matter is they go from "oh there was a Laker game tonight?" when Lonzo is out, to "I gotta leave work early to catch the start of the Laker game" when he's playing. His impact on the team and the brand is unbelievable, even on the nights he doesn't put up big numbers.

He's not a vocal guy so it's going to take him longer to take the steering wheel of this team, but you can already see it happening just with his style of play. The rest of the team is realizing the best chance of getting a good shot is through Lonzo. It's happening organically. He's becoming the engine and identity of the team. I wouldn't trade him for any one player in this draft class.

[LAL]

There isn't a GM on the planet that would take ball over Donovan freakin Mitchell in a redraft. And saying he's got a higher upside than any one of Mitchell, Tatum, or Markkanen is just lakers fans being overly optimistic with their botched pick.

Having said that, ball is a pretty brilliant passer & his bbiq at his age is very impressive

This single statement displays such an incredible bias that I don't think we can take your opinion seriously on this topic anymore.

[E-Balla]

I like Ball on the defensive end, but these kind of extraordinary ratings in all-in-one stats makes me question the weighting of defensive rebounding (and counting stats like steals and blocks, rewards gambling) for guards. I understand the value of ending defensive possessions with a rebound, but there's a massive difference between grabbing a contested or uncontested rebound.

Think that Ball's numbers might be a bit inflated because of the injury of Lopez as well. Not that Brook is a terrific defender but the experiment with Randle and Kuzma in the starting lineup as the 5 and 4 was disastrous, Ball's absent coincided with that stretch and therefore the on/off numbers might be influenced as well?

Someone posted this is the previous topic, but this pass is incredible.

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Brook Lopez's on/off: +0.9
Lonzo's on/off: +6.0

Lonzo is also the only player on the team with a good defensive on/off. His -7.1 (negative is good) is by far 1st with the next highest being Brook Lopez at -0.9. Add to that the fact that Lonzo is averaging 14.3/7.9/7.1 on 55.8 TS% in his last 10 and he's looking like a star in the making ala Kidd.

[KobeBryant24]

There isn't a GM on the planet that would take ball over Donovan freakin Mitchell in a redraft. And saying he's got a higher upside than any one of Mitchell, Tatum, or Markkanen is just lakers fans being overly optimistic with their botched pick.

Having said that, ball is a pretty brilliant passer & his bbiq at his age is very impressive

DM is a better scorer , what else is he better at? We needed a player to initiate the offense.

[Bruh Man]

Kuzma with 18 pts 10 rbs on 8/13 shooting against the Mavs.

[JellosJigglin]

Kuzma with 18 pts 10 rbs on 8/13 shooting against the Mavs.

He plays so under control and within the game that you don't even realize he put up numbers like that until it's over. It's just so effortless.

[MissileMike]

There isn't a GM on the planet that would take ball over Donovan freakin Mitchell in a redraft. And saying he's got a higher upside than any one of Mitchell, Tatum, or Markkanen is just lakers fans being overly optimistic with their botched pick.

Having said that, ball is a pretty brilliant passer & his bbiq at his age is very impressive

DM is a better scorer , what else is he better at? We needed a player to initiate the offense.

I think some GMs would still take Ball. If it wasn't for his idiot dad, people would be a lot more positive about him. Actually, in a redraft, I am not sure who would go #1. You could make a case for four different players:

Ball: Excellent stat stuffer who makes everyone better. Great size and instincts, and maybe the highest upside of the group?
Mitchell: Great scorer, and has definitely been the best of the class so far, but his upside is probably the lowest of the four due to his age and lack of size.
Tatum: Already a complete player, with good size. Also very efficient and a good defender.
Markannen: Great combination of size, shooting, and (surprisingly) athleticism.

Even though Mitchell has been the best of the group, no doubt, I suspect most GMs would not take him first overall in a redraft.

[LAL]

I think some GMs would still take Ball. If it wasn't for his idiot dad, people would be a lot more positive about him. Actually, in a redraft, I am not sure who would go #1. You could make a case for four different players:

Ball: Excellent stat stuffer who makes everyone better. Great size and instincts, and maybe the highest upside of the group?
Mitchell: Great scorer, and has definitely been the best of the class so far, but his upside is probably the lowest of the four due to his age and lack of size.
Tatum: Already a complete player, with good size. Also very efficient and a good defender.
Markannen: Great combination of size, shooting, and (surprisingly) athleticism.

Even though Mitchell has been the best of the group, no doubt, I suspect most GMs would not take him first overall in a redraft.

Lakers most certainly wouldn't take him over Ball in a redraft and I doubt the Celtics would either. I think the Sixers would pick him at 3 though, assuming the Celtics trade heist would not be possible in a redraft with the knowledge of Fultz/Tatum we now have.

[deflated]

There isn't a GM on the planet that would take ball over Donovan freakin Mitchell in a redraft. And saying he's got a higher upside than any one of Mitchell, Tatum, or Markkanen is just lakers fans being overly optimistic with their botched pick.

Having said that, ball is a pretty brilliant passer & his bbiq at his age is very impressive

DM is a better scorer , what else is he better at? We needed a player to initiate the offense.

At pick 2 if you're not taking best player available you're doing it wrong. Ball is not in the best 2 players in this draft on form to date.

[LAL]

There isn't a GM on the planet that would take ball over Donovan freakin Mitchell in a redraft. And saying he's got a higher upside than any one of Mitchell, Tatum, or Markkanen is just lakers fans being overly optimistic with their botched pick.

Having said that, ball is a pretty brilliant passer & his bbiq at his age is very impressive

DM is a better scorer , what else is he better at? We needed a player to initiate the offense.

At pick 2 if you're not taking best player available you're doing it wrong. Ball is not in the best 2 players in this draft on form to date.

Drafting BPA doesn't necessarily mean drafting the player currently playing best. It typically refers to the talent/fit dilemma.

[E-Balla]

There isn't a GM on the planet that would take ball over Donovan freakin Mitchell in a redraft. And saying he's got a higher upside than any one of Mitchell, Tatum, or Markkanen is just lakers fans being overly optimistic with their botched pick.

Having said that, ball is a pretty brilliant passer & his bbiq at his age is very impressive

DM is a better scorer , what else is he better at? We needed a player to initiate the offense.

At pick 2 if you're not taking best player available you're doing it wrong. Ball is not in the best 2 players in this draft on form to date.

It's also halfway through their rookie seasons and Lonzo is playing great recently.

[GameBredAPBT]

I think some GMs would still take Ball. If it wasn't for his idiot dad, people would be a lot more positive about him. Actually, in a redraft, I am not sure who would go #1. You could make a case for four different players:

Ball: Excellent stat stuffer who makes everyone better. Great size and instincts, and maybe the highest upside of the group?
Mitchell: Great scorer, and has definitely been the best of the class so far, but his upside is probably the lowest of the four due to his age and lack of size.
Tatum: Already a complete player, with good size. Also very efficient and a good defender.
Markannen: Great combination of size, shooting, and (surprisingly) athleticism.

Even though Mitchell has been the best of the group, no doubt, I suspect most GMs would not take him first overall in a redraft.

Lakers most certainly wouldn't take him over Ball in a redraft and I doubt the Celtics would either. I think the Sixers would pick him at 3 though, assuming the Celtics trade heist would not be possible in a redraft with the knowledge of Fultz/Tatum we now have.

There isn't a GM in the League that wouldn't take Mitchell first overall. He's clearly been the best player in the draft thus far & is the only guy with clear cut franchise guy potential.

[LAL]

There isn't a GM in the League that wouldn't take Mitchell first overall. He's clearly been the best player in the draft thus far & is the only guy with clear cut franchise guy potential.

Gonna have to agree to disagree then on both points. I think the Lakers and Celtics have both seen enough from their draft picks to feel relatively confident that each pick will meet their own internal pre-draft expectations. I also think each of those internal projections rate higher than the combination of Mitchell's initial projection and current play.

[GameBredAPBT]

There isn't a GM on the planet that would take ball over Donovan freakin Mitchell in a redraft. And saying he's got a higher upside than any one of Mitchell, Tatum, or Markkanen is just lakers fans being overly optimistic with their botched pick.

Having said that, ball is a pretty brilliant passer & his bbiq at his age is very impressive

This single statement displays such an incredible bias that I don't think we can take your opinion seriously on this topic anymore.

Hmm, don't really see how you could view my statement as biased. I mean I've always thought Ball was overrated but who didn't/doesn't? He's a ho hum athlete with nice court vision. There were so many more special players in that draft & we're seeing it now. I don't have anything against LAL or Ball though, I actually think he has pretty good game. Sort of a homeless person's Ben Simmons, so to speak. But can you imagine if Lakers had kept Russell & drafted Markk? Holy god. Or Mitchell & Kuzma playing together? Geez. But hey, there were a good deal of "durp" moments in this past draft.

Kudos to his dad for hyping his kid up enough to get picked #2 in the freaking nba draft. He's lucky Lakers have one of the most abysmal FOs in sports.

[GameBredAPBT]

Also, we have no "knowledge" on Fultz yet.

[LAL]

There isn't a GM on the planet that would take ball over Donovan freakin Mitchell in a redraft. And saying he's got a higher upside than any one of Mitchell, Tatum, or Markkanen is just lakers fans being overly optimistic with their botched pick.

Having said that, ball is a pretty brilliant passer & his bbiq at his age is very impressive

This single statement displays such an incredible bias that I don't think we can take your opinion seriously on this topic anymore.

Hmm, don't really see how you could view my statement as biased. I mean I've always thought Ball was overrated but who didn't/doesn't? He's a ho hum athlete with nice court vision. There were so many more special players in that draft & we're seeing it now. I don't have anything against LAL or Ball though, I actually think he has pretty good game. Sort of a homeless person's Ben Simmons, so to speak. But can you imagine if Lakers had kept Russell & drafted Markk? Holy god. Or Mitchell & Kuzma playing together? Geez. But hey, there were a good deal of "durp" moments in this past draft.

Kudos to his dad for hyping his kid up enough to get picked #2 in the freaking nba draft. He's lucky Lakers have one of the most abysmal FOs in sports.

And this statement confirmed my beliefs. Take your emotional, biased opinions elsewhere.

[GameBredAPBT]

This single statement displays such an incredible bias that I don't think we can take your opinion seriously on this topic anymore.

Hmm, don't really see how you could view my statement as biased. I mean I've always thought Ball was overrated but who didn't/doesn't? He's a ho hum athlete with nice court vision. There were so many more special players in that draft & we're seeing it now. I don't have anything against LAL or Ball though, I actually think he has pretty good game. Sort of a homeless person's Ben Simmons, so to speak. But can you imagine if Lakers had kept Russell & drafted Markk? Holy god. Or Mitchell & Kuzma playing together? Geez. But hey, there were a good deal of "durp" moments in this past draft.

Kudos to his dad for hyping his kid up enough to get picked #2 in the freaking nba draft. He's lucky Lakers have one of the most abysmal FOs in sports.

And this statement confirmed my beliefs. Take your emotional, biased opinions elsewhere.

A biased view would mean that I've got some sort of vendetta against the Lakers. Obviously I don't, just calling things like I see em & recognizing reality for what it is. Their FO done goofed up & will continue to, as long as that bumbling talk show host remains their GM.

In the meantime, I'd research the word "bias" if I were you.

[LAL]

A biased view would mean that I've got some sort of vendetta against the Lakers. Obviously I don't, just calling things like I see em & recognizing reality for what it is. Their FO done goofed up & will continue to, as long as that bumbling talk show host remains their GM.

In the meantime, I'd research the word "bias" if I were you.

You stated Mitchell would be taken #1 by every GM right now but I don't see you bashing other front offices in here for passing on him (12 teams did). Say something bad about Colangelo and the Sixers FO for their pick/trade and the other 10 teams (already got the Lakers) who passed on him to prove your lack of bias please.

[Derento]

Lonzo Ball is probably one of weirdest & most polarizing players I've seen. First off he has some really strong strengths & a few potentially crippling weaknesses. First he's a really smart player in terms of awareness,instincts & decision making.

Second his vision allows him find players in positions that a lot of players can't especially in transition. He attacks the boards & is a very good help defender. His man defense data is good. He has a lot weaknesses & some that would make him a unplayable player if he didn't have his strengths.

He is extremely reliant on his 3 point shot to provide any scoring so if it's off & bad he laying a egg scoringwise. Weird shot & no midrange. He has problems slashing on ball due to his awful flexibility & problems finishing & drawing fouls due to his weak body,lack of physicality,poor footwork & bad flexibility. He has good cutting instincts but as a point guard it's hard for players to get the ball to him in the air.

Despite all these weaknesses & an all time bad start he still is a positive player. Question is can he improve his weaknesses & tune his strengths to be a upper echelon player or is he what he is & just a solid player? He also has interesting things like being ambidextrous & being somewhat fast that he can't fully utilize due to other problems. He's got a solid floor & also a project at the same time.

I like the way he plays,his stoicism & mental strength & can see why he has believers & fans. I also see why people see him as just a guy & even a bust. I will be happy to watch how he grows as a player.

[LakersSoul]

There isn't a GM on the planet that would take ball over Donovan freakin Mitchell in a redraft. And saying he's got a higher upside than any one of Mitchell, Tatum, or Markkanen is just lakers fans being overly optimistic with their botched pick.

Having said that, ball is a pretty brilliant passer & his bbiq at his age is very impressive

This single statement displays such an incredible bias that I don't think we can take your opinion seriously on this topic anymore.

Hmm, don't really see how you could view my statement as biased. I mean I've always thought Ball was overrated but who didn't/doesn't? He's a ho hum athlete with nice court vision. There were so many more special players in that draft & we're seeing it now. I don't have anything against LAL or Ball though, I actually think he has pretty good game. Sort of a homeless person's Ben Simmons, so to speak. But can you imagine if Lakers had kept Russell & drafted Markk? Holy god. Or Mitchell & Kuzma playing together? Geez. But hey, there were a good deal of "durp" moments in this past draft.

Kudos to his dad for hyping his kid up enough to get picked #2 in the freaking nba draft. He's lucky Lakers have one of the most abysmal FOs in sports.

I think you need to watch more Lakers games to fully understand Lonzo and the team. I personally would not draft anyone other than Lonzo at #2 again. As for the FO, I think they are doing a great job.