The ROTY/Rookie Discussion Thread, Part III

[LAL]

Lonzo Ball is probably one of weirdest & most polarizing players I've seen. First off he has some really strong strengths & a few potentially crippling weaknesses. First he's a really smart player in terms of awareness,instincts & decision making.

Second his vision allows him find players in positions that a lot of players can't especially in transition. He attacks the boards & is a very good help defender. His man defense data is good. He has a lot weaknesses & some that would make him a unplayable player if he didn't have his strengths.

He is extremely reliant on his 3 point shot to provide any scoring so if it's off & bad he laying a egg scoringwise. Weird shot & no midrange. He has problems slashing on ball due to his awful flexibility & problems finishing & drawing fouls due to his weak body,lack of physicality,poor footwork & bad flexibility. He has good cutting instincts but as a point guard it's hard for players to get the ball to him in the air.

Despite all these weaknesses & an all time bad start he still is a positive player. Question is can he improve his weaknesses & tune his strengths to be a upper echelon player or is he what he is & just a solid player? He also has interesting things like being ambidextrous & being somewhat fast that he can't fully utilize due to other problems. He's got a solid floor & also a project at the same time.

I like the way he plays,his stoicism & mental strength & can see why he has believers & fans. I also see why people see him as just a guy & even a bust. I will be happy to watch how he grows as a player.

Nice post. He does lack an interior scoring game at this point, but in the games his shot is on, he clearly has tremendous impact. I don't think you can reasonably project him to ever be good in half court isolation/interior scoring, but if he can be a 40% 3 point shooter, an ability that he had in college and has flashed as pro, I don't think the lack of other scoring skills will hold him back from being a top tier floor general.

[Optms]

There isn't a GM on the planet that would take ball over Donovan freakin Mitchell in a redraft. And saying he's got a higher upside than any one of Mitchell, Tatum, or Markkanen is just lakers fans being overly optimistic with their botched pick.

Having said that, ball is a pretty brilliant passer & his bbiq at his age is very impressive

This single statement displays such an incredible bias that I don't think we can take your opinion seriously on this topic anymore.

Hmm, don't really see how you could view my statement as biased. I mean I've always thought Ball was overrated but who didn't/doesn't? He's a ho hum athlete with nice court vision. There were so many more special players in that draft & we're seeing it now. I don't have anything against LAL or Ball though, I actually think he has pretty good game. Sort of a homeless person's Ben Simmons, so to speak. But can you imagine if Lakers had kept Russell & drafted Markk? Holy god. Or Mitchell & Kuzma playing together? Geez. But hey, there were a good deal of "durp" moments in this past draft.

Kudos to his dad for hyping his kid up enough to get picked #2 in the freaking nba draft. He's lucky Lakers have one of the most abysmal FOs in sports.

Hit all the marks in one paragraph.

- Take shot at Ball
- Belittle Ball's game
- D'Russell boasting
- Boast about random rookie taken 5 picks after Ball
- Take shot at Organization
- Lavar Ball shout out
- Ben Simmons shout out
- Claim not to be biased

Quaility troll post.

[CBS7]

I think some GMs would still take Ball. If it wasn't for his idiot dad, people would be a lot more positive about him. Actually, in a redraft, I am not sure who would go #1. You could make a case for four different players:

Ball: Excellent stat stuffer who makes everyone better. Great size and instincts, and maybe the highest upside of the group?
Mitchell: Great scorer, and has definitely been the best of the class so far, but his upside is probably the lowest of the four due to his age and lack of size.
Tatum: Already a complete player, with good size. Also very efficient and a good defender.
Markannen: Great combination of size, shooting, and (surprisingly) athleticism.

Even though Mitchell has been the best of the group, no doubt, I suspect most GMs would not take him first overall in a redraft.

Lakers most certainly wouldn't take him over Ball in a redraft and I doubt the Celtics would either. I think the Sixers would pick him at 3 though, assuming the Celtics trade heist would not be possible in a redraft with the knowledge of Fultz/Tatum we now have.

There isn't a GM in the League that wouldn't take Mitchell first overall. He's clearly been the best player in the draft thus far & is the only guy with clear cut franchise guy potential.

Still taking Lauri over Mitch here.

[levon]

To be honest Mitchell's been what Philly hoped Fultz would be. In a redraft, Mitchell goes #1, Ball #2, Tatum #3.

[nurseryc]

It’s comical how underrated Ben Simmons has become in this thread. People have forgotten that he’s having one of the best all around rookie seasons ever

[JimmerAllStar]

Lonzo Ball is probably one of weirdest & most polarizing players I've seen. First off he has some really strong strengths & a few potentially crippling weaknesses. First he's a really smart player in terms of awareness,instincts & decision making.

Second his vision allows him find players in positions that a lot of players can't especially in transition. He attacks the boards & is a very good help defender. His man defense data is good. He has a lot weaknesses & some that would make him a unplayable player if he didn't have his strengths.

He is extremely reliant on his 3 point shot to provide any scoring so if it's off & bad he laying a egg scoringwise. Weird shot & no midrange. He has problems slashing on ball due to his awful flexibility & problems finishing & drawing fouls due to his weak body,lack of physicality,poor footwork & bad flexibility. He has good cutting instincts but as a point guard it's hard for players to get the ball to him in the air.

Despite all these weaknesses & an all time bad start he still is a positive player. Question is can he improve his weaknesses & tune his strengths to be a upper echelon player or is he what he is & just a solid player? He also has interesting things like being ambidextrous & being somewhat fast that he can't fully utilize due to other problems. He's got a solid floor & also a project at the same time.

I like the way he plays,his stoicism & mental strength & can see why he has believers & fans. I also see why people see him as just a guy & even a bust. I will be happy to watch how he grows as a player.

Nice post. He does lack an interior scoring game at this point, but in the games his shot is on, he clearly has tremendous impact. I don't think you can reasonably project him to ever be good in half court isolation/interior scoring, but if he can be a 40% 3 point shooter, an ability that he had in college and has flashed as pro, I don't think the lack of other scoring skills will hold him back from being a top tier floor general.

The only "elite" flash I've seen from Lonzo is his ability to find the right guy in the fast break and transition. In a half-court offense, he's just a regular player. He can't do PnR. We all know that. He's not a good finisher, as of now. Right now, I don't see him as the next Chris Paul.

[JimmerAllStar]

Lakers most certainly wouldn't take him over Ball in a redraft and I doubt the Celtics would either. I think the Sixers would pick him at 3 though, assuming the Celtics trade heist would not be possible in a redraft with the knowledge of Fultz/Tatum we now have.

There isn't a GM in the League that wouldn't take Mitchell first overall. He's clearly been the best player in the draft thus far & is the only guy with clear cut franchise guy potential.

Still taking Lauri over Mitch here.

Same. Mitch's height along with his high flying act scares me. It reminds me too much of Derrick Rose. His knees are taking a pounding.

[LAL]

The only "elite" flash I've seen from Lonzo is his ability to find the right guy in the fast break and transition. In a half-court offense, he's just a regular player. He can't do PnR. We all know that. He's not a good finisher, as of now. Right now, I don't see him as the next Chris Paul.

That's just flat out wrong. Simple as that. I don't think anyone wants him to be a ball-dominant, PnR spamming point guard anyways though. Those guys tend to destroy ball movement and pound the ball all possession while hunting for an assist.

[CBS7]

Lauri with a solid 19/4 with 3 steals in a W against a playoff team

[SmartWentCrazy]

It’s comical how underrated Ben Simmons has become in this thread. People have forgotten that he’s having one of the best all around rookie seasons ever

In the last 15 years? Sure he’s having one of the better rookie seasons.

Ever? Laughable take. Not even close. Go look up Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Shaq... cmon, you don’t need to add ridiculous hyperbole to claim Simmons is awesome. I mean, even guys like Grant Hill were arguably more impressive.

[levon]

If Kuzma was given the offensive role Markkanen was given, I feel like he'd be producing as well if not better. Can people who know better address this?

[LakersSoul]

It’s comical how underrated Ben Simmons has become in this thread. People have forgotten that he’s having one of the best all around rookie seasons ever

What are you talking about? Simmons is neck and neck in the voting with DM for ROY. Simmons, Ingram and to some extent Jaylen Brown are doing well from the 2016 draft class.

[draftnightsuit]

There isn't a GM on the planet that would take ball over Donovan freakin Mitchell in a redraft. And saying he's got a higher upside than any one of Mitchell, Tatum, or Markkanen is just lakers fans being overly optimistic with their botched pick.

Having said that, ball is a pretty brilliant passer & his bbiq at his age is very impressive

I wouldn’t hesitate to take Ball over Mitchell.

Ball makes his teammates better and can elevate a mediocre team. The Lakers without Lonzo were 0-6 and absolutely unwatchable. Now that Lonzo is back they are on a 4 game winning streak.

Mitchell is a volume scorer and looks like a nice player but hasn’t proven himself to be a game changer.

You can find a Donovan Mitchell in every draft, but Lonzo is the type of player that shows up once every 5-10 years.

[LakersSoul]

If Kuzma was given the offensive role Markkanen was given, I feel like he'd be producing as well if not better. Can people who know better address this?

Kuzma Vs Lauri:

PPG: 16.7 Vs 15.4
FG: 45.9 Vs 42.8%
3Pt: 36.9 Vs 36.7%
APG: 1.8 Vs 1.3

Kuzma beats Markkanen in all offensive stats above except FT percentage. The only major stat Markkanen beats Kuzma in right now is rebound by a good 1.3 rpg.

6.3 Vs 7.6 rpg

[Gus McCrae]

There isn't a GM on the planet that would take ball over Donovan freakin Mitchell in a redraft. And saying he's got a higher upside than any one of Mitchell, Tatum, or Markkanen is just lakers fans being overly optimistic with their botched pick.

Having said that, ball is a pretty brilliant passer & his bbiq at his age is very impressive

This single statement displays such an incredible bias that I don't think we can take your opinion seriously on this topic anymore.

Hmm, don't really see how you could view my statement as biased. I mean I've always thought Ball was overrated but who didn't/doesn't? He's a ho hum athlete with nice court vision. There were so many more special players in that draft & we're seeing it now. I don't have anything against LAL or Ball though, I actually think he has pretty good game. Sort of a homeless person's Ben Simmons, so to speak. But can you imagine if Lakers had kept Russell & drafted Markk? Holy god. Or Mitchell & Kuzma playing together? Geez. But hey, there were a good deal of "durp" moments in this past draft.

Kudos to his dad for hyping his kid up enough to get picked #2 in the freaking nba draft. He's lucky Lakers have one of the most abysmal FOs in sports.

This is a terrible post I'm sorry.

[GameBredAPBT]

Offensive role? Markkanen has been playing within the offense. He hasn't even been a focal point. He mainly hangs out on the wings & bombs threes. Bulls don't really have a "main option", that's not how Hoiberg has been running the offense. If anything, Dunn is the primary option as he's the only player on the Bulls (sans LaVine) that can create for himself.

Kuzma has a much bigger responsibility, based on what I've seen.

Gotta laugh at these Laker fans that don't watch other teams play. Mitchell is merely a scorer, pshh, what a joke.

[Gus McCrae]

If Kuzma was given the offensive role Markkanen was given, I feel like he'd be producing as well if not better. Can people who know better address this?

Kuzma Vs Lauri:

PPG: 16.7 Vs 15.4
FG: 45.9 Vs 42.8%
3Pt: 36.9 Vs 36.7%
APG: 1.8 Vs 1.3

Kuzma beats Markkanen in all offensive stats above except FT percentage. The only major stat Markkanen beats Kuzma in right now is rebound by a good 1.3 rpg.

6.3 Vs 7.6 rpg

Markannen's on a tear right now. I'd say he's better than King Kuz (and I'm obviously a Laker fan ).

[AKfanatic]

Lauri with a solid 19/4 with 3 steals in a W against a playoff team

Watch on YouTube

[Gus McCrae]

Lauri with a solid 19/4 with 3 steals in a W against a playoff team

Watch on YouTube

Is he the Bulls fan's favorite player? Or does Dunn have that honor? both have been excellent.

[AKfanatic]

^^^^^^^^^

Dunn fits the hard nosed type player Bulls fans gravitate towards.

For now I’d say Lauri has more fans excited....but there’s no real “favorite” yet.