Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4

[lilfishi22]

I guess from your point of view anyone can force a trade at any time. It might be risky for some players to do so. I think the only time a team will usually bend to a player wanting to be traded is when they risk losing him due to free agency, so that usually wouldn't happen until they are a free agent in a year or a year and a half. Two years at the most. I can't think of any situations really where a guy tried to do so before that, and usually the only guys that get moved are superstars in such scenarios are superstars. And lately those stars have ended up netting pretty good trade packages outside of maybe Cousins.

I guess I'm not sure your point...sure he could pout and say he's sitting early or something if we are not as good as he would like, I don't see Booker being that type of guy.

Technically anybody can but more likely players with power (aka stars). Booker will be a star if he isn't already and he'll get paid by virtually any team that has cap space so he isn't reliant to us as the only team that wants to pay him unlike lower tier guys. But again, my point is that just because a guy has signed a new deal, it doesn't mean they are guaranteed to be content and can't force their way to a better situation.

[BobbieL]

so its basically Fultz for Bender and the Miami pick

I don't think the Sixers do that deal

I would just as much use the HEat pick with the Suns pick to move up to get Young.

I hope we are in a position to do that.

I would sell the farm to get Young. Booker + Young puts us in Warriors backcourt territory.

The Suns are 8th right now but only a few games but top 4. I am torn as I don't want the team to tank and I like them winning and competing - but when you see Young, Bagley, Ayton and hear about Doncic - top 4 would be pretty darn nice to get.

Would trading guys like Daniels, Chandler, buying out Monroe help the tank but in a not so overt way as not playing players. Granted, don't want to tick off Booker to the point he may not sign an extension.

But may, the idea of getting Young with Booker would be amazing.

[bwgood77]

I guess from your point of view anyone can force a trade at any time. It might be risky for some players to do so. I think the only time a team will usually bend to a player wanting to be traded is when they risk losing him due to free agency, so that usually wouldn't happen until they are a free agent in a year or a year and a half. Two years at the most. I can't think of any situations really where a guy tried to do so before that, and usually the only guys that get moved are superstars in such scenarios are superstars. And lately those stars have ended up netting pretty good trade packages outside of maybe Cousins.

I guess I'm not sure your point...sure he could pout and say he's sitting early or something if we are not as good as he would like, I don't see Booker being that type of guy.

Technically anybody can but more likely players with power (aka stars). Booker will be a star if he isn't already and he'll get paid by virtually any team that has cap space so he isn't reliant to us as the only team that wants to pay him unlike lower tier guys. But again, my point is that just because a guy has signed a new deal, it doesn't mean they are guaranteed to be content and can't force their way to a better situation.

It still doesn't happen real often with more than 2 years left on a contract. It seems pretty rare, even with big name players. So if he signs a max 5 year extension this summer, it would be rare for him to "force" his way out during the next 4 years. You don't have much leverage if you can't leave the team in free agency in the near future. But yeah, sure, he could try and force his way out.

The obsession over the possibility is hilarious though.

[oddity]

\http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ybrv8pyw + Mia '18 1st

In this trade, we save them $6M by taking on 2 x 1yr contracts worth $20, while trading them a more useful Monroe. They also get a versatile Bender to use with Covington and Saric at SF/PF, as they please, plus, they get a 1st, which they always love.

We get Fultz (They don't need him with Simmons and TJ McConnell), 2 PFs to take up space in Amir J. and T. Booker, but also, a plus PF/C in Richaun Holmes.

This helps us immediately AND in the future...

Part II addressing other aspects of your post, in my next post...

And I thought I was a blind optimist at times...

[lilfishi22]

I guess from your point of view anyone can force a trade at any time. It might be risky for some players to do so. I think the only time a team will usually bend to a player wanting to be traded is when they risk losing him due to free agency, so that usually wouldn't happen until they are a free agent in a year or a year and a half. Two years at the most. I can't think of any situations really where a guy tried to do so before that, and usually the only guys that get moved are superstars in such scenarios are superstars. And lately those stars have ended up netting pretty good trade packages outside of maybe Cousins.

I guess I'm not sure your point...sure he could pout and say he's sitting early or something if we are not as good as he would like, I don't see Booker being that type of guy.

Technically anybody can but more likely players with power (aka stars). Booker will be a star if he isn't already and he'll get paid by virtually any team that has cap space so he isn't reliant to us as the only team that wants to pay him unlike lower tier guys. But again, my point is that just because a guy has signed a new deal, it doesn't mean they are guaranteed to be content and can't force their way to a better situation.

It still doesn't happen real often with more than 2 years left on a contract. It seems pretty rare, even with big name players. So if he signs a max 5 year extension this summer, it would be rare for him to "force" his way out during the next 4 years. You don't have much leverage if you can't leave the team in free agency in the near future. But yeah, sure, he could try and force his way out.

The obsession over the possibility is hilarious though.

I don't think there's an obsession. I do think completely overlooking it, esp with McD at the helm, is naive

[pelifan]

What can I expect from Mike James?

[Bogyo]

What can I expect from Mike James?

Headache, anger, urge to drink and do some heavy drugs.
Other than that, ball pounding, me first-second-third attitude with bad shooting. 3rd string scoring PG.

[LV-Suns]

What can I expect from Mike James?

Just say no, there are better players in the gleague.

[Jdiddy701]

What can I expect from Mike James?

I think he might be a good backup on a good team. He is a me first type of PG. He will have his moments. He thinks he’s better than what he really is.

One good thing about him is that he will dunk when you least expect it and will be hard. I went from really enjoying him play to cut him ASAP. Selfish player



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[carey]

What can I expect from Mike James?

Check out the Mike James Fan Club thread. viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1622957

[Qwigglez]

I think all of this talk about Booker leaving sometime during his next contract has gotten too far ahead of itself. But given the theme my interpretation of what lilfishi is basically trying to say is, let's not get to the point where Booker wants to force his way out. Everyone on the tank brigade wants us to lose games while simultaneously build our youth and expect growth. We got a top 4 pick from the past two drafts and yet still want another. What happens if we get to 2020 and we take a step back? Bender, Quese, Jackson don't live up to lofty expectations, we ended up drafting the next Vesley, Tyrus Thomas, and MKG. It takes the rookie we draft in 2018 to make a huge leap in his 4th season, it'll be 2022 by then, Booker will be into his 3rd year into his max contract. He now demands a trade as he's been patient for almost 7 seasons. Is this what everyone wants? Let's try and emulate the success of the Wolves and Sixers yet don't see the tremendous amount of luck it took to get into that position.
Furthermore, Booker will be into his 4th season while this 2018 draftee will be... well a rookie. Booker had developed as rapidly as HOF'ers, are we expecting this rookie to contribute in his first season or even 2nd? As we've seen with our past two drafts, it may take longer, maybe much longer, twice as long. So in their 4th season, Booker will be in his 7th.

[Frank Lee]

The question really becomes how long will we suck ??????

We are close to a decade of irrelevancy

[NavLDO]

\http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ybrv8pyw + Mia '18 1st

In this trade, we save them $6M by taking on 2 x 1yr contracts worth $20, while trading them a more useful Monroe. They also get a versatile Bender to use with Covington and Saric at SF/PF, as they please, plus, they get a 1st, which they always love.

We get Fultz (They don't need him with Simmons and TJ McConnell), 2 PFs to take up space in Amir J. and T. Booker, but also, a plus PF/C in Richaun Holmes.

This helps us immediately AND in the future...

Part II addressing other aspects of your post, in my next post...

And I thought I was a blind optimist at times...

You all should know, by now, especially when I throw up (yeah, that's about right...vomit) 10 trade scenarios, I'm not really looking at the best trade value on either side; I'm just trying to get close. Add/Subtract whatever is needed, but also understand that Philly has a history (with other GMs, mind you) of trading solid pieces for peanuts...Evan Turner so they could reach the salary floor, dump the guy a few days later after they met the requirement, and a 2nd Rd pick. Why? Because he was not going to be the star they were hoping for, but he was still a pretty decent player in the right system.

Then, again, look at the 3 young promising players PLUS a first they traded for Bynum. The dude never suited up, and he was being upgraded by the Lakers by Howard, or so they thought. I know, hindsight, yada yada, but, they traded 3 players and a 1st for 'ridden hard and put away wet' 24 YO who had only played in 68% of available games at that point:



Anyway, add the '21 Mia pick, or ooh, our '18 2nd...they love 2nd Rd picks! Who cares. My point is, Bender would be more useful to them than Fultz will be; take pick status, hype, etc., ALL away, and look at their roster, and who is going to be more helpful to their cause both this year and in the future? A 3rd PG (They already have Simmons, of course, and a pretty darn good bench PG, and actually, he's ideal for them, in McConnell)? Or a guy who can defend anywhere from 2-4...maybe 5, depending, and is shooting the 3 at a clip of 39% from the PF position, but could just as easily play the SF position, depending upon their needs. That's what I was looking at.

If we offered what I offered, and McD explained it the way I just did (though I doubt GMs tell other GMs how to use players on THEI team), but regardless, if McD 'upsold' Bender's versatility and pointed out McConnell's ability as a bench PG, and them already having Simmons, I bet he could put a pkg together that would work for both sides. Remember, Fultz is helping them ZILCH this year, and they have designs on getting to the postseason; Bender would be a 'plus' addition to their roster and help them achieve their goal this year and in years future...

[NavLDO]

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Read on Twitter

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Apparently the Clips offered Blake to The Wolves for Towns. Obviously thats a no go. What would you give up for Blake?

That's surprising, considering the rumors you here about the the Wolves not being thrilled will KAT's defense...or maybe it's just the fans that aren't happy, and are making up rumors...probably the latter.

But for Blake Griffin? Well, it appears they are looking to go younger. What they need is a SG, but that's a non-starter, so I doubt we have anything OTHER than if they are interested in our two young PFs, plus if they would consider Reed a viable option to try.

But honestly, we could go the minimalist route, which is probably the more plausible, and preferred, but we could also advance our #timeline to make us instant playoff contenders, and oddly enough, make the Clippers a more viable Playoff team as well, potentially.

What I mean by that, is, I would keep Warren, the 24 YO SF, and give up the 20 YO SF, Jackson. I'd also give up both 20 YO PFs, and Monroe would have to be part of the trade to make salaries work, which works for them as well, as they'll need some offense from their bigs once Blake leaves.

We get back in return, the 28-YO PF Blake, of course, the 23-YO PF Montrezl Harrell (because I like him, and we give two PFs, they give 2), a 23-YO Sam Dekker to be our Bench SF behind our 24-YO SF Warren, and a 23-YO PG Tyrone Wallace (just a throw in, but hey, why not?). That seems like a lot to give up for Blake; 3 prior Top-10 picks, but it puts us squarely in the Playoff race:

Canaan / Booker / Warren / Blake / Chandler

Ulis / Reed / Dekker / Harrell / Len

We have our 'Big 3', but still need a PG from one of our 2 '18 1sts, which will really propel us if one of Canaan or Wallace do not turn out to be a decent starter. Just an idea...

Otherwise, minimalist? Monroe + Bender + our '18 1st is what it would likely cost...at least.

[NavLDO]

The Clippers would trade Griffin for Booker. Not less.
No way they trade him for a package of low pieces. That is why they wanted Towns.

I do not see news in all of that. These offers are probably being made everyday....something like Cleveland offering Kevin Love for Anteto. "Do you want to trade with us Milwaukee?"

Which is why, I think, the 'minimalist' trade idea I had above would likely not even be close, for them, even if it's actually pretty darn fair. A 3rd team would likely have to get involved, like Brooklyn. We could snag Jordan and Dinwiddie, and give up Monroe, JJ, Bender, and a pick.

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6992677

Dinwiddie / Booker / Warren / Chriss / Jordan

Clippers 'pay' both Jordan and Griffin, but get a 25-YO SG (which they need) in Crabbe, they get Monroe to fill the void of Jordan, and Bender to fill the void of Blake, and our '18 1st, which, since we just got out PG and Center in one trade, we're ok with. We just try to get the Best Center possible with the Mia '18 1st to learn the ropes under Jordan.

Brooklyn sheds some salary, but get get a young SF in JJ, and they also get Blake. They are the TRUE winners of the trade. The Clippers appear to lose, but with a pick...maybe we through in the MIL 1st as well, it's not so bad. We 'also' win by filling to positions of need with a young, promising PG, and an All-Star Center.

[Cutter]

You are never winning a championship if Blake Griffin is your number 1 option.

[NavLDO]

As this team moves into more of the win now phase of the rebuild I really hope they learn from the mistakes of the D'Antoni era and never stop developing young players. I truly believe that their constant trading of draft picks and refusal to develop young players cost them a championship. Had they hit on just one of those picks they gave away it could have been the guy that put them over the top. Smart teams are always trying to add young cheap controllable talent. Heck look at the crazy stacked Warriors team they have bought early second round picks that got them Bell and McCaw.

Now I'm not saying you can't trade any picks if there's some opportunist deal available for a veteran but you shouldn't go to that well too often or you get yourself in trouble.

I agree. The Suns the one year had picks 17 and 18 - which turned out to be Sergio Rodriguez and Rajon Rondo - when the Suns needed a back up PG. What did Sarver and Mike D'A do - they traded those two picks for $3m each along with Brian Grant as the Celtics took his contract - $2m/

What did Mike D than do a few weeks later, sign Marcus Banks for 21/5. Now, even keeping one of those guys was a 4 year like 6m contract - so cap certainty

I am still ticked the Suns let Bell pass them by. Nothing against Reed but Bell and Josh Jackson seemed like perfect two players to add for defense, rebounding hustle

So yes, keep your picks. The Suns have 6 first rounders between 18 and 21 (not counting Milwaukee as I have no idea what that will be). So, maybe 2 of those picks can be traded - at most three but not the Suns 20018 or the Heat 2021. Along with the I think three second rounders this year (though I think the Suns should keep their own or at least use them on stash guys). But yes, keep the young cheap players churning your roster.

There's a fine line. There's selling your picks for cash, for no reason other than to avoid having to pay for a rookie, and then there is trading a pick or two in order to sweeten a deal in order to get the player we want/need.

The good thing is, McD seems to err on the side of caution with picks, and doesn't trade them often. I think he got caught up in trying to immediately replace Dragic/IT, and felt he HAD to make the BK deal, when in actuality, we still had Bledsoe; there was absolutely no need to panic. The good think is McD realizes his mistake, and we likely will never see that stupid of a trade from him again.

The fact of the matter is, however, that I feel he needs to make a couple of tough decisions for the betterment of the team. Having two top-10 PFs from the same draft just isn't not the best utilization of resources. And I will apologize in advance, BW, for rehashing this again, but we really need to identify one of the two as our future by season's end, and allow the other to attempt to develop as a starter for someone else. Same with SF and Warren/JJ. Neither of them should be a bench player...not when we are in dire need of starters at two other positions. If by the trade deadline, he can use two of them, and any number of the 'extra' picks to bring in either a young, stud PG or C, or both, then he should do it, then leave OUR pick alone, and we pick the BPA.

I think if McD had a little more clarity about what exactly we needed to come out of the draft with, we'd be in much better shape; and the best way to do that is to 'clean up' the roster to identify exactly whether we need to take the best PG, or the best C available, because we already traded for the other at the deadline, and got a feel for how good or bad that player will be for us with the remaining 30+ games left after the Deadline. If the player is promising...voila' we go after the other position.

We then ID the player(s) we want, and do anything we can to make sure we are there and available to select the player we want, within reason, of course.

OH NOOOOO!!!! Another trade proposal from Nav... (for you older gents out there that remember...)



But anyway, face it. The Magic are done this season. That said, they have pieces that are conducive to a quick rebuild, and we could aid that, while they aid our attempt to reach the Playoffs...remember...this is for us to reach the playoffs, or at worst, will get us close, so our pick is looking no better than 13th, likely.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y8rb3brg + BOTH...Suns '18 1st + Mil '20 lightly protected 1st

It could be smaller...I just added Ross for Daniels so we'd eat some salary to make it more appealing.

Payton / Booker / Warren / Gordon / Biyombo

And we can still use Mia '18 1st to bring a BPA type. Orlando continues to 'tank' this season, gets their top 3 pick, plus ours, so they surely get, let's say Young...

Young / Fournier / JJ / Isaac / Vucevic with still Bender and Hezonja on the roster...they look good on paper.

Anyway, that's the type of scenario where it would be wise to use picks to make us better...

[bwgood77]

The Clippers would trade Griffin for Booker. Not less.
No way they trade him for a package of low pieces. That is why they wanted Towns.

I do not see news in all of that. These offers are probably being made everyday....something like Cleveland offering Kevin Love for Anteto. "Do you want to trade with us Milwaukee?"

Which is why, I think, the 'minimalist' trade idea I had above would likely not even be close, for them, even if it's actually pretty darn fair. A 3rd team would likely have to get involved, like Brooklyn. We could snag Jordan and Dinwiddie, and give up Monroe, JJ, Bender, and a pick.

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6992677

Dinwiddie / Booker / Warren / Chriss / Jordan

Clippers 'pay' both Jordan and Griffin, but get a 25-YO SG (which they need) in Crabbe, they get Monroe to fill the void of Jordan, and Bender to fill the void of Blake, and our '18 1st, which, since we just got out PG and Center in one trade, we're ok with. We just try to get the Best Center possible with the Mia '18 1st to learn the ropes under Jordan.

Brooklyn sheds some salary, but get get a young SF in JJ, and they also get Blake. They are the TRUE winners of the trade. The Clippers appear to lose, but with a pick...maybe we through in the MIL 1st as well, it's not so bad. We 'also' win by filling to positions of need with a young, promising PG, and an All-Star Center.

That return for the Clips is probably one of the worst in a proposed deal I've seen in my history reading and posting at realgm. Impressive.

[Waylay13]

I guess from your point of view anyone can force a trade at any time. It might be risky for some players to do so. I think the only time a team will usually bend to a player wanting to be traded is when they risk losing him due to free agency, so that usually wouldn't happen until they are a free agent in a year or a year and a half. Two years at the most. I can't think of any situations really where a guy tried to do so before that, and usually the only guys that get moved are superstars in such scenarios are superstars. And lately those stars have ended up netting pretty good trade packages outside of maybe Cousins.

I guess I'm not sure your point...sure he could pout and say he's sitting early or something if we are not as good as he would like, I don't see Booker being that type of guy.

Technically anybody can but more likely players with power (aka stars). Booker will be a star if he isn't already and he'll get paid by virtually any team that has cap space so he isn't reliant to us as the only team that wants to pay him unlike lower tier guys. But again, my point is that just because a guy has signed a new deal, it doesn't mean they are guaranteed to be content and can't force their way to a better situation.

It still doesn't happen real often with more than 2 years left on a contract. It seems pretty rare, even with big name players. So if he signs a max 5 year extension this summer, it would be rare for him to "force" his way out during the next 4 years. You don't have much leverage if you can't leave the team in free agency in the near future. But yeah, sure, he could try and force his way out.

The obsession over the possibility is hilarious though.

If my recent readings of the designated player contract is to believed it cant happend this summer but next summer. The player cant sign a contact extension (any years left on their old contract to get the full contract) to an extension.

[bwgood77]

Technically anybody can but more likely players with power (aka stars). Booker will be a star if he isn't already and he'll get paid by virtually any team that has cap space so he isn't reliant to us as the only team that wants to pay him unlike lower tier guys. But again, my point is that just because a guy has signed a new deal, it doesn't mean they are guaranteed to be content and can't force their way to a better situation.

It still doesn't happen real often with more than 2 years left on a contract. It seems pretty rare, even with big name players. So if he signs a max 5 year extension this summer, it would be rare for him to "force" his way out during the next 4 years. You don't have much leverage if you can't leave the team in free agency in the near future. But yeah, sure, he could try and force his way out.

The obsession over the possibility is hilarious though.

If my recent readings of the designated player contract is to believed it cant happend this summer but next summer. The player cant sign a contact extension (any years left on their old contract to get the full contract) to an extension.

Didn't Wiggin's agree to one last summer, with this year being the last year in his rookie deal?