3rd Annual Fire Kidd Thread - Volume 2 (Horst Interview pg 14)

[bigkurty]

The bench is not great but if you asked people to rate the talent of Boston without Gordon vs the Bucks without Jabari, I think most people would say the talent level isn’t all that dissimilar.

[bigkurty]

8th seed with an mvp level talent. Are you kidding me? We spent decades saying tank to get the mvp level talent to avoid this 8th seed mediocrity BS and here we are. Like wtf.

[Pachinko_]

I find this thread very entertaining. I come here myself sometimes to have fun by reading again and again the same repeated sentences which portray Kidd as the black sheep in the flock called Milwaukee Bucks. I am sure I am not the only one who finds this thread not only completely wrong but distracting as well.

Lets suppose for a moment that Kidd gets fired or resigns somehow and lets also assume that Fizdale who has been rather unjustly expelled from Memphis, becomes the new head coach of Milwaukee. Of course the common belief is that Fizdale is a good coach no? That is what most of us believe taking into consideration the posts from the same Bucks fans who thought his removal was unfair. How many actually believe that things will change with Fizdale steering the coaching wheel? Many for sure , and only very few realize that changing coaches will change Nada.

The sad truth is that Bucks do not deserve something better than 45-50 wins with ANY coach. And even more disappointing truth is that besides Giannis and the young still Maker who cannot be judged yet, 5-6 players including Henson, Middletton , Dellavedova, Snell and Bledsoe the hasty, latest addition of another good penetrator must walk out the door. Because there is not a second player on the team who can actually make a difference. Even Miami tonight had a Dragic and Whiteshide. Is there a Dragic in Milwuakee? Obviously not. Is there a duo like Beal and Wall in this team ? Of course not. Imagine what Giannis would do if he had CJ and Lillard on his side. If he was playing in Portland instead playing together with Snell who they pay 10 Mil a year to do what exactly to shoot only 3s? I mean isn’t it ridiculous that we have almost never seen Snell shooting from 4-5 meters? How many of us understand that the desirable plan of having only long and athletic basketball players is completely flawed and that the deep , dark but pure truth is that many must go and few should stay? That the whole rebuilding process need to start from the scratch now that Giannis and they mystery man called Jabari are still young? Don’t blame your coach then hoping that things will change if he gets sacked.

They wont.

oh sure, don't worry, most of us would like to fire not just the coach but also the owners and every exec and undo all the stupid signings that contributed in this silly roster and payroll. Not happening obviously.

And of course a new coach right now will make f*** all difference because it takes time, and because Kidd's firing is already 2 years too late.

But you know, you have to start somewhere.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

[bucksfansince88]

Still have kidd supporters i see, smh

[Wooderson]

What makes this so frustrating is that there likely isn't a basketball person making the decision on Kidd. If you were Horst would you really want to rock the boat by going to LED to try and replace him? Are there any basketball minds other than Rod Thorn advising them on this?

[GBBucks]

Still have kidd supporters i see, smh

I honestly feel like he's someone sent from the organization to blatantly ignore every single shortcoming of kidd's (and there's thousands), and to attempt to change the narrative, or make it appear as if he has supporters.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[LittleRooster]

I feel like we’re at a crossroads here. I think something similar needs to be done as it was with the billboard 4-5 Years ago.

We have a transcendent talent, and we’re messing up our chance to win with him.

We need the bucks brass to realize how important having competent people making decisions is, without interfering with them.

With the new arena coming, and all the positivity that comes along with it, I feel we don’t have much time to possibly influence this


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[thomchatt3rton]

Still have kidd supporters i see, smh

I'm not a supporter but I'm not at all an ultra-orthodox kidd-hater either. If he were let go tomorrow I'd be OK with it. But I'm suspicious that he's not to blame for as much as people blame him for. I suspect we have issues with our talent/personnel/fit that are fundamental- not Kidd-created. I have a feeling that replacing Kidd with your average NBA coach would make less of a difference than many think (hell, it's possible there'd even be a downside we don't see).

Also, I'm not crazy about how anti-Kidd sentiment here has kinda reached the point of dogma. A lot of people aren't always being very discriminating in terms of their critiques of Kidd or what they're willing to blame on Kidd. Kidd could make the right in-game moves and lots of folks wouldn't be capable of identifying it.

Like El Peregrino has said, there's often no sense in even discussing Kidd with a lot of people because they have no tolerance for different opinions or even mild gradiation of opinion. A month or so ago, JTK made a series of perfectly reasonable (fairly innocuous actually) posts and the response was along the lines of abuse- "gtfo" etc things like that. The prevailing sentiment, at it's worst, is bad for discourse, and what are we all here for, if not discourse?

[Brewhoopfan]

So this is a tank, but except for a high pick, the tank is to get rid of Kidd. Every good tank needs a slogan.

Fail for Fizdale.
Losing skid to bounce Kidd
Abandon ship for pink slip

[blazza18]

How do people still watch the Bucks, watch other teams be better than the Bucks and come away with maybe Kidd isn't THE problem?

[Rockmaninoff]

How do people still watch the Bucks, watch other teams be better than the Bucks and come away with maybe Kidd isn't THE problem?

It's purely coincidental and/or some kind of bias that every team we play is better coached. /s

[VooDoo7]

How do people still watch the Bucks, watch other teams be better than the Bucks and come away with maybe Kidd isn't THE problem?

There's no doubt in my mind that, if Kidd were replaced with Fizdale right now, we'd look like a completely different team within a few weeks.

[bucksfansince88]

Still have kidd supporters i see, smh

I'm not a supporter but I'm not at all an ultra-orthodox kidd-hater either. If he were let go tomorrow I'd be OK with it. But I'm suspicious that he's not to blame for as much as people blame him for. I suspect we have issues with our talent/personnel/fit that are fundamental- not Kidd-created. I have a feeling that replacing Kidd with your average NBA coach would make less of a difference than many think (hell, it's possible there'd even be a downside we don't see).

Also, I'm not crazy about how anti-Kidd sentiment here has kinda reached the point of dogma. A lot of people aren't always being very discriminating in terms of their critiques of Kidd or what they're willing to blame on Kidd. Kidd could make the right in-game moves and lots of folks wouldn't be capable of identifying it.

Like El Peregrino has said, there's often no sense in even discussing Kidd with a lot of people because they have no tolerance for different opinions or even mild gradiation of opinion. A month or so ago, JTK made a series of perfectly reasonable (fairly innocuous actually) posts and the response was along the lines of abuse- "gtfo" etc things like that. The prevailing sentiment, at it's worst, is bad for discourse, and what are we all here for, if not discourse?

There are several articles addressing the fact that he not only is the coach but also the guy leading the charge with the blundering roster moves and mismanagement of assets! So not only does he fail to have his team prepared night in and night out from an energy and effort perspective(fireable offense) but he’s also has played a critical role in the whole Bucks DNA thing of casting misfits around his generational talent that he is clearly stagnating and hamstringing as of late!(see Giannis USG drop and not touching the ball in critical 4q minutes) it’s not a doubt in my mind that there are coaches out in the market drooling over our roster and what they could concoct with it!

I don’t hate kidd i hate the fact that he has the longest leash when it comes to mediocrity and absolutely no accountability for his asset mismanagement and archaic schemes that he and his assistants deploy! I’ve watched and coached a lot of basketball in my life and i often find myself drifting deeper into the abyss wondering what the hell are those guys doing out there!

Why do opposing players cite the fact that we only run a handful of plays, often the same play 7-8 times in a row. (See draymond greens post game remarks) What is the culture? What is the team identity that Kidd is trying to establish? What has it been from day 1? What are the benchmarks and measures for success? When do the excuses stop? When will the front office trust the results?

[bucksfansince88]

So this is a tank, but except for a high pick, the tank is to get rid of Kidd. Every good tank needs a slogan.

Fail for Fizdale.
Losing skid to bounce Kidd
Abandon ship for pink slip

Hungry for Van Gundy
Fall Flat for Blatt
DDay for Ime

I’d also consider Brent Barry, Monty Williams, but Tony Bennett is my top choice

[bucksfansince88]

I find this thread very entertaining. I come here myself sometimes to have fun by reading again and again the same repeated sentences which portray Kidd as the black sheep in the flock called Milwaukee Bucks. I am sure I am not the only one who finds this thread not only completely wrong but distracting as well.

Lets suppose for a moment that Kidd gets fired or resigns somehow and lets also assume that Fizdale who has been rather unjustly expelled from Memphis, becomes the new head coach of Milwaukee. Of course the common belief is that Fizdale is a good coach no? That is what most of us believe taking into consideration the posts from the same Bucks fans who thought his removal was unfair. How many actually believe that things will change with Fizdale steering the coaching wheel? Many for sure , and only very few realize that changing coaches will change Nada.

The sad truth is that Bucks do not deserve something better than 45-50 wins with ANY coach. And even more disappointing truth is that besides Giannis and the young still Maker who cannot be judged yet, 5-6 players including Henson, Middletton , Dellavedova, Snell and Bledsoe the hasty, latest addition of another good penetrator must walk out the door. Because there is not a second player on the team who can actually make a difference. Even Miami tonight had a Dragic and Whiteshide. Is there a Dragic in Milwuakee? Obviously not. Is there a duo like Beal and Wall in this team ? Of course not. Imagine what Giannis would do if he had CJ and Lillard on his side. If he was playing in Portland instead playing together with Snell who they pay 10 Mil a year to do what exactly to shoot only 3s? I mean isn’t it ridiculous that we have almost never seen Snell shooting from 4-5 meters? How many of us understand that the desirable plan of having only long and athletic basketball players is completely flawed and that the deep , dark but pure truth is that many must go and few should stay? That the whole rebuilding process need to start from the scratch now that Giannis and they mystery man called Jabari are still young? Don’t blame your coach then hoping that things will change if he gets sacked.

They wont.

Lost me at the Maker not being judged part

[crkone]

Still have kidd supporters i see, smh

I'm not a supporter but I'm not at all an ultra-orthodox kidd-hater either. If he were let go tomorrow I'd be OK with it. But I'm suspicious that he's not to blame for as much as people blame him for. I suspect we have issues with our talent/personnel/fit that are fundamental- not Kidd-created. I have a feeling that replacing Kidd with your average NBA coach would make less of a difference than many think (hell, it's possible there'd even be a downside we don't see).

Also, I'm not crazy about how anti-Kidd sentiment here has kinda reached the point of dogma. A lot of people aren't always being very discriminating in terms of their critiques of Kidd or what they're willing to blame on Kidd. Kidd could make the right in-game moves and lots of folks wouldn't be capable of identifying it.

Like El Peregrino has said, there's often no sense in even discussing Kidd with a lot of people because they have no tolerance for different opinions or even mild gradiation of opinion. A month or so ago, JTK made a series of perfectly reasonable (fairly innocuous actually) posts and the response was along the lines of abuse- "gtfo" etc things like that. The prevailing sentiment, at it's worst, is bad for discourse, and what are we all here for, if not discourse?

People don't want to discuss the talent issue because it scares people. It's easier to believe a new coach will make everything happy and shiny. It gives everyone hope.

[bucksfansince88]

Still have kidd supporters i see, smh

I'm not a supporter but I'm not at all an ultra-orthodox kidd-hater either. If he were let go tomorrow I'd be OK with it. But I'm suspicious that he's not to blame for as much as people blame him for. I suspect we have issues with our talent/personnel/fit that are fundamental- not Kidd-created. I have a feeling that replacing Kidd with your average NBA coach would make less of a difference than many think (hell, it's possible there'd even be a downside we don't see).

Also, I'm not crazy about how anti-Kidd sentiment here has kinda reached the point of dogma. A lot of people aren't always being very discriminating in terms of their critiques of Kidd or what they're willing to blame on Kidd. Kidd could make the right in-game moves and lots of folks wouldn't be capable of identifying it.

Like El Peregrino has said, there's often no sense in even discussing Kidd with a lot of people because they have no tolerance for different opinions or even mild gradiation of opinion. A month or so ago, JTK made a series of perfectly reasonable (fairly innocuous actually) posts and the response was along the lines of abuse- "gtfo" etc things like that. The prevailing sentiment, at it's worst, is bad for discourse, and what are we all here for, if not discourse?

People don't want to discuss the talent issue because it scares people. It's easier to believe a new coach will make everything happy and shiny. It gives everyone hope.

I think everyone realizes that the bucks are top heavy talent wise, the problem is the coach by many reports also has played a major hand in crafting this roster in addition to coaching it to underachieving results! great coaches find ways to maximize the talent available to them, especially if they played a key role in assembling said talent issued roster...

[DingleJerry]

I'm not a supporter but I'm not at all an ultra-orthodox kidd-hater either. If he were let go tomorrow I'd be OK with it. But I'm suspicious that he's not to blame for as much as people blame him for. I suspect we have issues with our talent/personnel/fit that are fundamental- not Kidd-created. I have a feeling that replacing Kidd with your average NBA coach would make less of a difference than many think (hell, it's possible there'd even be a downside we don't see).

Also, I'm not crazy about how anti-Kidd sentiment here has kinda reached the point of dogma. A lot of people aren't always being very discriminating in terms of their critiques of Kidd or what they're willing to blame on Kidd. Kidd could make the right in-game moves and lots of folks wouldn't be capable of identifying it.

Like El Peregrino has said, there's often no sense in even discussing Kidd with a lot of people because they have no tolerance for different opinions or even mild gradiation of opinion. A month or so ago, JTK made a series of perfectly reasonable (fairly innocuous actually) posts and the response was along the lines of abuse- "gtfo" etc things like that. The prevailing sentiment, at it's worst, is bad for discourse, and what are we all here for, if not discourse?

People don't want to discuss the talent issue because it scares people. It's easier to believe a new coach will make everything happy and shiny. It gives everyone hope.

I think everyone realizes that the bucks are top heavy talent wise, the problem is the coach by many reports also has played a major hand in crafting this roster in addition to coaching it to underachieving results! great coaches find ways to maximize the talent available to them, especially if they played a key role in assembling said talent issued roster...

And some people can did a little deeper and actually look at the schemes and Xs and Os and wonder WTF they're doing. Even if you add two depth pieces to help out, how does that fix this 15 yr old offense of isos, backdowns, and entries to the elbow high post? Kidd has constructed the roster to play his scheme on D now for 3-4 years, and the D is as bad as it's ever been. Maybe the scheme is garbage? That's the coach. And I know the roster isn't good enough to win it all but it's definitely better than hovering around .500.

That said, once again I can't believe it's been 2 months and they haven't brought in a thick C to take Thon's minutes. That probably helps the team 2-3 points on average per game. And I know that's not technically on the coach if we knew there was a normal GM/Coach situation here but I doubt that is the case. As how much of that is on Kidd for wasting a roster spot on his buddy Terry and then Liggins/GP2.

[Badgerlander]

Watch on YouTube

Rod Thorn picking out our GM

[JEIS]

Still have kidd supporters i see, smh

I'm not a supporter but I'm not at all an ultra-orthodox kidd-hater either. If he were let go tomorrow I'd be OK with it. But I'm suspicious that he's not to blame for as much as people blame him for. I suspect we have issues with our talent/personnel/fit that are fundamental- not Kidd-created. I have a feeling that replacing Kidd with your average NBA coach would make less of a difference than many think (hell, it's possible there'd even be a downside we don't see).

Also, I'm not crazy about how anti-Kidd sentiment here has kinda reached the point of dogma. A lot of people aren't always being very discriminating in terms of their critiques of Kidd or what they're willing to blame on Kidd. Kidd could make the right in-game moves and lots of folks wouldn't be capable of identifying it.

Like El Peregrino has said, there's often no sense in even discussing Kidd with a lot of people because they have no tolerance for different opinions or even mild gradiation of opinion. A month or so ago, JTK made a series of perfectly reasonable (fairly innocuous actually) posts and the response was along the lines of abuse- "gtfo" etc things like that. The prevailing sentiment, at it's worst, is bad for discourse, and what are we all here for, if not discourse?

People don't want to discuss the talent issue because it scares people. It's easier to believe a new coach will make everything happy and shiny. It gives everyone hope.

Kidds broke a$$ unconventional schemes, playing people out of position, crap rotations, They obviously need a center badly. Thon is killing this team.

They should have another center on this team besides Thon and Henson when neither can rebound. Wilson should be in the D league if he isn't playing... They are likely keeping Vaughn for his contract value in a potential trade. They are down Jabari and Telly, which will likely help when they come back. This team lives and dies with how well Bledsoe, Giannis, and Kris. It is both. These guys need to gel together and they just very often play like they have never played together before.