Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5

[Qwigglez]

Can we make it to Pt. 6 before the trade deadline?

Does anyone think we are going to make a trade? Cut Monroe? Trade our vets, trade our assets, etc.?

What is your ideal plan for the Suns for the rest of this season and the next?

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1643840&start=2020#start_here

[Qwigglez]

Here is a different scenario...
Suns get-
Jusuf Nurkic
Evan Turner

Blazers get-
Greg Monroe
Alex Len

Nurkic hasn't lived up to his expectations after playing extremely well for the Blazers after the deadline last season. He's expecting a huge pay-raise this summer, but it would be something I could live with since he fits our core players age group. Nurkic has good vision, though he turns the ball over too much likely from trying to do too much. I could see him making some good passes to a cutting Warren or Jackson.
Turner's contract sucks but he can handle the ball, and I wouldn't mind starting him alongside Booker. Not sure who would really run the point though.
We wouldn't give up any picks since we are taking on Turner's contract so I feel it is a fair trade.

For the Blazers they save some money this off-season and maybe would prefer a more defensive minded center in Len. He is likely a lot cheaper than what Nurkic would receive this off-season too, plus they may be able to retain Len, Napier, and even Monroe if they wish. Monroe would provide them with inside scoring if they decide to keep him too.

All in all, it's not a trade I would be really thrilled for, but then again it's not something I'd be totally against. We could just offer Nurkic a contract this off-season without taking on Turner, but we'd likely have to overpay for the Blazers to not match.

Also, I could see the Blazers saying no. They may be able to get someone like Bazemore and Illyasova from the Hawks for Turner and some picks. Living in Portland, it seems like the Blazers don't mind being a 1st or 2nd round exit kind of team, as long as they keep winning most of their games.

[Kerrsed]

[Kerrsed]

Ok Qwigglez, here's my take on the Portland deal.

I dont see them letting go of Nurkic, specially at that low of a price. Yeah, they also dump Turners large deal (Which they seem very interested in doing), i just dont see them doing it at the cost of Nurkic, as they are trying to free up capspace to re-sign Him, along with Napier and Connaughton. They have always wanted and yet lacked a big like him and they finally got him.

What i do find interesting is that a Portland Fan did create a trade on the trade board involving us (Along with Miami). The whole idea behind it was to, yes, cut salary to re-sign those 3 players i mentioned. Now what i thought was pretty interesting (And in a way blew my mind) was that they were getting rid of Turners salary by using CJ and his large deal (Opening up a ton of capspace).

Now while i dont agree with his trade idea (We got Turner but Miami got CJ), i think there could be a way to just cut miami completely out of it. Here was the trade he posted:

Portland in: Josh Richardson
Justice Winslow
Wayne Ellington
Tyson Chandler
Jared Dudley


Portland Out: CJ
Evan Turner
Jake Layman

Miami in: CJ
Jake Layman


Miami out: Josh Richardson
Tyler Johnson
Wayne Ellington
Justice Winslow
Kelly Olynk
2018 (lotto protected) 1st

Suns in: Tyler Johnson
Evan Turner
Kelly Olynk
Mia: 2018 (lotto protected) 1st

Suns out: Tyson Chandler
Jared Dudley


Why for Portland? - Portland uses CJ to get rid of Turner’s awful deal but also avoids using a pick to dump Turner and swings back a great 3&D in Josh Richardson having a great season and a nice young piece in Winslow both on solid contracts. Then they bite the salaries of Chandler and Dudley for the rest of this year and next year and will be out of salary hell to be able to resign guys like Napier, Connaughton, and Nurkić.

Potential starting lineup - Dame, Napier, Richardson, Aminu, Nurkic

Why for Miami? - Pat Riley gets his guy in CJ who is a lethal scorer and could possibly be even better if he was able to run the show full time. CJ and Whiteside pick n roll next to Dragic would be nice. They also set themselves up a lot better for next season by getting rid of Tyler Johnson who is owed $19 mil, Josh Richardson $10 mil, and Olynyk $10 mil

Why for Suns? - Suns get compensated a nice 1st round pick for their efforts facilitating while also getting rid of their older vets on bigger contracts (Dudley, Chandler) they take back Turner which is a terrible contract but they get compensated and can afford it and he actually might fit well in Phoenix being able to run an offense next to Booker and Jackson. Phoenix also gets Tyler Johnson who will be making a lot next year but is a good young player for Phoenix to try while they continue a rebuild. Kelly Olynk is a good role player on a decent contract and could give them insurance Incase Alex Len doesn’t return.

Seriously, if we could net CJ (while being forced to take on Turner) for the low price of...say Chandler/Dudley/Monroe and Chris(?), i think i would pull the trigger on that.

CJ/Booker Would be a killer combo. Deadly. Turner (while vastly overpaid) could take over Dudleys 6 MPG. Chandler? Monroe? No real loss there. Chris? Might be a tough pill for some to swallow, but sooner than later we will have to finally choose who between Him and Bender is going to be our guy (Hell maybe neither!).

Hell, on top of all that we keep our draft pick. Imagine if we still were able to land Young. I wonder how well Booker could play SF? I mean he does have the height (Maybe not the overall size). Imagine a line-up of:

Young/McCollum/Booker/Warren/Bender Everybody can score. Everybody has range...well, except for Warren. But everybody would be a threat. Crazy? Yes, i know.

Do you know da wae????

[Saberestar]

Nurkic has been solid. He is an starting C, no way they let him go.

Capela is another player that has being mentioned.
Houston is gonna match everything, they will go over the cap because with Capela, Harden and Paul are contenders for the next few years.

Those two are not available IMO.

[NavLDO]

We have our wiggins in Chriss.......please stop. If any of our youth is a bust, it's Chriss. Besides, wiggins has been good since day one, so I don't see the parallel in the least.

viewtopic.php?p=62190395#p62190395

Andrew Wiggins, worst max player ever?

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1656515#p61896620



secure image upload

Funny...from what I can see, I'm not seeing a whole lot of 'goodness' from Wiggins in his 1st 2 seasons...or after that, as the recent thread on the GB shows.

If we force-fed Chriss 30+ minutes per night, like teams have done with Wiggins; attempting to WILL him to be good, well, we could get the same results. Maybe we should Max him out as well; oh wait, his name is not the great, Andrew Wiggins.

You need to get it out of your head that Wiggins is this wonderful player. Yeah, I stretched that, calling Chriss our 'Wiggins', but my meaning wasn't necessarily talent level, but where he fits on the team when one starts saying "oh x player is their #3" or "their #4"...in this example, Chriss, or Wiggins, is the #4 on the team. That was my meaning. Look at their Starting Lineup

Teague / Butler / Wiggins / Gibson / Towns and Dieng being the backup C that's good enough to start, but can't

Now look at ours in that scenario I painted...

All-Star / Booker / JJ / Chriss / McCoy (Courtesy of Heat Pick) and Len being the backup C that's good enough to start, but can't

So, the scenario I'm painting there is is Wiggins is the #4 (and actually, likely #5--I'd honestly rather have Gibson)...just like Chriss would be the #4. Is their #4 better than ours? Yep. But don't be deluded into thinking that Wiggins is some awesome player, because he just isn't.

So while I understand what you are saying, my intention wasn't really to say that Chriss is as good of a player, even if, when really looking closely, they are not as far apart as it may seem.

[Qwigglez]

Eh, my trade was just for fun. No way do I believe the Blazers would be interested in any kind of deal where they get rid of Nurkic. I also think the likelihood of them trading CJ is highly unlikely unless they were to get a definitive star back in return.

Everyone is clamoring for Trae Young but the chances of us getting him are very slim. I wonder how attached the Nets are to D'Lo. I'd give them Monroe, both Miami picks, and the Bucks pick for D'Lo and Mozgov. I then hope we are still able to pick up Bamba in the draft and then call it quits on obtaining any more youth.

D'Lo/Booker/Warren/Chriss/Bamba
Ulis/Reed/Jackson/Bender/Chandler

[NavLDO]

These last two games have been ugly. They are not hustling on D at all, especially Booker, but I can't really blame him due to the effort he has to put out on offense to try and keep them in the game at all. The Suns made Houston and Indiana look unbeatable. Just venting, but I also want to add that there really isn't an answer out there, in my opinion, that would be worth blowing up the team for right now. Do they need a better point guard, hell yes...but at what cost when there is nothing to win this year? Everyone on here knows this...I'm a 48 year old Phoenix native. In my lifetime, I need to see a Suns championship.

Well, we were missing our #2 player last game, which hurts. We also were without our starting PF for both games. Say what you want about Chriss, but he's been hustling, and on Defense, as well. His last 9 full games, before he went out in the 2nd Qtr against the Thunder, he's been avg'ing 11.6/7 with 1.2 Stls/1.1 Blks, and shooting 37% from 3. His FTs have been atrocious, but other than that, he's been a big part of us going 5-5 during that time frame (counting OKC game)

Canaan missed the 1st of the 2 losses, as well, so we've had our own injury issues the last coupld of games, which surely has had an effect upon our ability to win.

Again, say what you want, but when you go into a game missing 2 starters, and your Key bench PG, that's gonna hurt.

[Frank Lee]

I prefer us to to do absolutely nothing but release Monroe....then plummet down the standings and auger in. This squad is beyond repair and devoid of talent. We play like a group who just picked sides at the Y.

Our vets have no value as nobody will absorb their remaining 10Mil year for what little they can provide on the court. Our kids haven't shown anything to warrant a good player in return..... some of them playing their way to europe/china. (You hear me Ulis??) The big 3 of Jackson, Chris, Bender are good values but inconsistent contributors. Production for dollar says keep them. Plus, we wont get anything back in a deal. we have nothing but picks to offer... unless we are willing to part with Warren... and at this point, if we were able to get some legit PG talent back, I might do it. But I'd rather see where the lotto shakes out.

With the pathetic play this team has been showing us, Im banking on a real good chance to get one of Young or Doncic.Atleast a top 5. Either way, McD has some real work to do this off season... A coach, a legit PG, a C all have to be found as this is the last year we get rewarded for being one of the worst teams in the league. His roster hodge-podging has shown little cohesion from day one. And please, no lectures on how young these guys are. Bad is bad. If he can't put a team together with what he has had then its time to go. Christ he has traded away a GD starting team and has little to nothing to show for it. (Dragic/Bled/Mobro1/Mobro2/TheGortat for ????)

This year is easy. Just look away from the train wreck and wait for the draft. We've done it before.... but this has to stop and this team has to compete next yr/soon else McD will be McDumped.

[sunsbum]

As a guy that lives in Portland and follows the blazers a tad, yes they are a little down on nurk after he played amazingly when the initial trade happened last year but he is definitely their #1 priority. Period.

As for CJ, I've seen a lot of realist blazer fans talk about trading him for a superstar but i dont think the blazers brass would ever have the balls to pull the trigger on something involving him. Cj and dame are best friends and it's well known around here. So with that, they are going to move forward with a core of lillard, cj and nurk leaving them not much wiggle room for much else with all the terrible contracts they've handed out (Leonard, Turner)

I dont think cutter was 1 for 1 comparing kj to Napier just reminding people that we have a ring of honor guy that was once stuck behind a pretty good pg. Watch some tape on bazz, I think most of you will like him. I actually prefer him over Kemba because he's a much better shooter and won't cripple us with a max contract. His name doesn't have the star power but his shooting % certainly does!

[sunsbum]

Also. We aren't getting trae boys. Yea it sucks but that kid is going 1 or 2 (celtics?????? Are you kidding me?) Get over that wet dream now before you have a meltdown come lottery ball time.

[Qwigglez]

I prefer us to to do absolutely nothing but release Monroe....then plummet down the standings and auger in. This squad is beyond repair and devoid of talent. We play like a group who just picked sides at the Y.

Our vets have no value as nobody will absorb their remaining 10Mil year for what little they can provide on the court. Our kids haven't shown anything to warrant a good player in return..... some of them playing their way to europe/china. (You hear me Ulis??) The big 3 of Jackson, Chris, Bender are good values but inconsistent contributors. Production for dollar says keep them. Plus, we wont get anything back in a deal. we have nothing but picks to offer... unless we are willing to part with Warren... and at this point, if we were able to get some legit PG talent back, I might do it. But I'd rather see where the lotto shakes out.

With the pathetic play this team has been showing us, Im banking on a real good chance to get one of Young or Doncic.Atleast a top 5. Either way, McD has some real work to do this off season... A coach, a legit PG, a C all have to be found as this is the last year we get rewarded for being one of the worst teams in the league. His roster hodge-podging has shown little cohesion from day one. And please, no lectures on how young these guys are. Bad is bad. If he can't put a team together with what he has had then its time to go. Christ he has traded away a GD starting team and has little to nothing to show for it. (Dragic/Bled/Mobro1/Mobro2/TheGortat for ????)

This year is easy. Just look away from the train wreck and wait for the draft. We've done it before.... but this has to stop and this team has to compete next yr/soon else McD will be McDumped.

Except we haven't done so well in the past two drafts, so maybe it's best we consolidate our assets and make a deal. Or hope Brandon becomes our white Knight.
I actually wish we would have just kept Bledsoe. At least then we would only have one gaping hole instead of two.

[sunsbum]

I prefer us to to do absolutely nothing but release Monroe....then plummet down the standings and auger in. This squad is beyond repair and devoid of talent. We play like a group who just picked sides at the Y.

Our vets have no value as nobody will absorb their remaining 10Mil year for what little they can provide on the court. Our kids haven't shown anything to warrant a good player in return..... some of them playing their way to europe/china. (You hear me Ulis??) The big 3 of Jackson, Chris, Bender are good values but inconsistent contributors. Production for dollar says keep them. Plus, we wont get anything back in a deal. we have nothing but picks to offer... unless we are willing to part with Warren... and at this point, if we were able to get some legit PG talent back, I might do it. But I'd rather see where the lotto shakes out.

With the pathetic play this team has been showing us, Im banking on a real good chance to get one of Young or Doncic.Atleast a top 5. Either way, McD has some real work to do this off season... A coach, a legit PG, a C all have to be found as this is the last year we get rewarded for being one of the worst teams in the league. His roster hodge-podging has shown little cohesion from day one. And please, no lectures on how young these guys are. Bad is bad. If he can't put a team together with what he has had then its time to go. Christ he has traded away a GD starting team and has little to nothing to show for it. (Dragic/Bled/Mobro1/Mobro2/TheGortat for ????)

This year is easy. Just look away from the train wreck and wait for the draft. We've done it before.... but this has to stop and this team has to compete next yr/soon else McD will be McDumped.

Except we haven't done so well in the past two drafts, so maybe it's best we consolidate our assets and make a deal. Or hope Brandon becomes our white Knight.
I actually wish we would have just kept Bledsoe. At least then we would only have one gaping hole instead of two.

Have you seen that boner on reddit that spams the bender hate every chance he gets? His name is quizzlemynizzle or something like that and in the back of my head I always hope to myself it's not you but the name is too close to throw the case out!!! Actually I'm pretty sure it's slin slin from most notably ASFN and here.

[hollywood6964]

We have our wiggins in Chriss.......please stop. If any of our youth is a bust, it's Chriss. Besides, wiggins has been good since day one, so I don't see the parallel in the least.

viewtopic.php?p=62190395#p62190395

Andrew Wiggins, worst max player ever?

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1656515#p61896620



secure image upload

Funny...from what I can see, I'm not seeing a whole lot of 'goodness' from Wiggins in his 1st 2 seasons...or after that, as the recent thread on the GB shows.

If we force-fed Chriss 30+ minutes per night, like teams have done with Wiggins; attempting to WILL him to be good, well, we could get the same results. Maybe we should Max him out as well; oh wait, his name is not the great, Andrew Wiggins.

You need to get it out of your head that Wiggins is this wonderful player. Yeah, I stretched that, calling Chriss our 'Wiggins', but my meaning wasn't necessarily talent level, but where he fits on the team when one starts saying "oh x player is their #3" or "their #4"...in this example, Chriss, or Wiggins, is the #4 on the team. That was my meaning. Look at their Starting Lineup

Teague / Butler / Wiggins / Gibson / Towns and Dieng being the backup C that's good enough to start, but can't

Now look at ours in that scenario I painted...

All-Star / Booker / JJ / Chriss / McCoy (Courtesy of Heat Pick) and Len being the backup C that's good enough to start, but can't

So, the scenario I'm painting there is is Wiggins is the #4 (and actually, likely #5--I'd honestly rather have Gibson)...just like Chriss would be the #4. Is their #4 better than ours? Yep. But don't be deluded into thinking that Wiggins is some awesome player, because he just isn't.

So while I understand what you are saying, my intention wasn't really to say that Chriss is as good of a player, even if, when really looking closely, they are not as far apart as it may seem.

I didn't say he was awesome, or the great, or whatever. Why this board insists on leading arguments is beyond me, it's way too see through n rudimentary.

Anyway, I said he's been good, and he's has. 23ppg last year, less this year, but of course with a fairly good team with a lot of options.

Now the real point was about Chriss compared to wiggins. Not the same position or even type of player. Also wiggins is more of a #3 option, maybe 3/4, on a pretty good team, while Chriss struggles to get minutes from game to game on a pretty bad team. Meanwhile Wiggins was a strong 20 plus point per game scorer on a bad team. And you think Chriss could do the same with the same push? Please stop. Again. This is a poor argument.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Also. We aren't getting trae boys. Yea it sucks but that kid is going 1 or 2 (celtics?????? Are you kidding me?) Get over that wet dream now before you have a meltdown come lottery ball time.

If we're behind the Magic, we won't get Trae. Ain't no better fit in the whole draft.

I think there are plenty of interesting PG prospects in the bottom half of the draft if we're not enamored with Sexton. I'm betting we take a C with that top pick. Whether it's Bamba's length, Bagley's motor or Jackson's instincts, we're sure to have a favorite. If we had the top pick, I suspect we'd take Ayton.

[NavLDO]

Spoiler:

darealjuice wrote:
Hesh wrote:
But Jackson was our star in the making last draft. And Bender the one before that. Every season we're calling for a top pick so that we can land one these potential "stars" but who really knows when it comes to the draft. Are we gonna tank next season again when one of these guys don't pan out? Are we gonna tank every season until we finally hit gold? I'm not calling you out because I would like a top pick as well, but this approach might be getting out of hand.


You were expecting that star in the making to be done half way through his rookie season? That's revisionist history anyways, both Bender and Chriss have been called high risk projects since day 1, and it was well known that Jackson wasn't as developed on offense as the other guys at the top.

The point when you stop losing/tanking is, in my opinion, when the players you draft start looking like they can win games and you can start turning draft capital into the missing pieces of a good team. I'd assume that point will be when we have a legitimate option at starting point guard that isn't Ulis, we have a legitimate starting center, and we aren't wondering which one of Bender and Chriss is going to show up and contribute before each game. My personal hope is starts to happen next year with another year of growth for Booker, a solid offseason for Jackson, a full year under a real coach for Chriss and Bender, and adding someone like Young/Doncic/Ayton/Bagley/Bamba/Porter to to fill one of the holes in this team. It would be really nice if we started to see this at the end of the year so we can spend some draft capital towards building a team that can win some games next year, but I won't hold my breath.


Nah, I never said they were done. I'm very optimistic with our prospects, especially JJ. The poster I was quoting alluded to the thought that 1 or 2 of them would be role players and that we need to draft these potential "stars" in the next draft. I was merely pointing out the irony of writing these guys off when they were the potential stars we tanked for the last go round and if it turns out that he is correct in saying they're only role players, then who's to say this upcoming draft is a sure thing.

I'm all for developing our players, creating structure and a culture and I wouldn't sacrifice these just to blatantly tank for a top pick. This is the other problem I have with tanking. I'd love to get one of these guys in the top 5 but at what expense? I agree with your evaluation, although I'm still on the fence with promoting Triano.

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1643840&start=2000#p62216873

The issue I have, however, is continuing to take players at positions we have 'covered'. If JJ is our future at the 3, yet we continue to start Warren, I believe they are on a train headed full-speed toward a mountain-side...it's not gonna be pretty. Something has to give. JJ cannot be the #4 overall pick and be our Bench SF...our '6th Man'; he needs to start and be developed as a starter. Warren is doing a great job as a starter, though he has his warts, of course. But everyday that Warren starts and continues to build up his résumé as a starter, and get better, how are 'you' (McD/Triano) gonna tell him--"Hey, thanks for all you've done as our starting SF...you've been great, but now we're going to demote you to 6th Man because we drafted JJ 4th overall, and he needs to be our starter."

Then, there's the 2 x 20-YO PFs drafted at the same time. Sorry, but Bender needs those reps as a starter as well to be developed properly, playing with the starters. And heck, Chriss isn;t even getting the 30-ish MPG he should be as a starter...why? WE have to play Bender. They're both being developed improperly, thus delaying the process, IMO.

Then add in the fact of our PG situation, which to me, is much more critical than our Center position right now, because our young guys need to develop with a 'Floor General'.

We're in a bad spot right now, so what is the best solution? Go get one of the young PGs out there that are stuck behind other PGs? Trade for an older PG on a team that wants to get a younger one some reps? Do we wait until the draft and get one there?

Thing is, let's say we go to the draft, as is, and let's say we are drafting 7th, and the following scenario plays out:

#1 - Bagley
#2 - Doncic
#3 - Ayton
#4 - Young
#5 - Bamba
#6 - Jaren Jackson
#7 - On the Clock

Who are you going to choose? Sexton is the next best PG and the logical choice. But you notice who's missing and supposed to be gone by now, but isn't, because Team #6 needed a playmaker at PF right now.

Well, we should take Porter, right?? NOOOOOO!!!! But we will, won't we. And your saying, as your reading this, Nav's crazy, you always take the BPA. And I'd say, you are right...

...OR, you shop the pick for the PG in the league that you want, because X team with said PG would LOVE to have Porter.
...OR, you trade some of our other assets at the SF/PF position for a PG.
...OR, you draft him, then 'trade him' down a few spots for a ridiculous payback in picks/players.

but you don't go into next season with Warren, JJ, Porter, Bender, and Chriss all on the same team, and expect they will all develop...again, with no PG.

So, I guess my point is, I really don't care which direction they decide to go, so long as they decide on a direction, instead of what feels like to us fans as directionless meandering.

[NavLDO]

Here is a different scenario...
Suns get-
Jusuf Nurkic
Evan Turner

Blazers get-
Greg Monroe
Alex Len

Nurkic hasn't lived up to his expectations after playing extremely well for the Blazers after the deadline last season. He's expecting a huge pay-raise this summer, but it would be something I could live with since he fits our core players age group. Nurkic has good vision, though he turns the ball over too much likely from trying to do too much. I could see him making some good passes to a cutting Warren or Jackson.
Turner's contract sucks but he can handle the ball, and I wouldn't mind starting him alongside Booker. Not sure who would really run the point though.
We wouldn't give up any picks since we are taking on Turner's contract so I feel it is a fair trade.

For the Blazers they save some money this off-season and maybe would prefer a more defensive minded center in Len. He is likely a lot cheaper than what Nurkic would receive this off-season too, plus they may be able to retain Len, Napier, and even Monroe if they wish. Monroe would provide them with inside scoring if they decide to keep him too.

All in all, it's not a trade I would be really thrilled for, but then again it's not something I'd be totally against. We could just offer Nurkic a contract this off-season without taking on Turner, but we'd likely have to overpay for the Blazers to not match.

Also, I could see the Blazers saying no. They may be able to get someone like Bazemore and Illyasova from the Hawks for Turner and some picks. Living in Portland, it seems like the Blazers don't mind being a 1st or 2nd round exit kind of team, as long as they keep winning most of their games.

I think Len has right of 1st refusal on any trades, but not sure why, or how that would workout, but I'd be ok with it. Nurkic would solve half of our problem, and Turner can be good if used properly; not $16M per good, but if we can shed Chandler and/or Knight within the next year, it won't hurt too bad.

But it we are trading with Portland, as sunsbum has mentioned, we should go after Napier, as well. If nothing more than a better option for us for the remainder of the season.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Spoiler:

darealjuice wrote:
Hesh wrote:
But Jackson was our star in the making last draft. And Bender the one before that. Every season we're calling for a top pick so that we can land one these potential "stars" but who really knows when it comes to the draft. Are we gonna tank next season again when one of these guys don't pan out? Are we gonna tank every season until we finally hit gold? I'm not calling you out because I would like a top pick as well, but this approach might be getting out of hand.


You were expecting that star in the making to be done half way through his rookie season? That's revisionist history anyways, both Bender and Chriss have been called high risk projects since day 1, and it was well known that Jackson wasn't as developed on offense as the other guys at the top.

The point when you stop losing/tanking is, in my opinion, when the players you draft start looking like they can win games and you can start turning draft capital into the missing pieces of a good team. I'd assume that point will be when we have a legitimate option at starting point guard that isn't Ulis, we have a legitimate starting center, and we aren't wondering which one of Bender and Chriss is going to show up and contribute before each game. My personal hope is starts to happen next year with another year of growth for Booker, a solid offseason for Jackson, a full year under a real coach for Chriss and Bender, and adding someone like Young/Doncic/Ayton/Bagley/Bamba/Porter to to fill one of the holes in this team. It would be really nice if we started to see this at the end of the year so we can spend some draft capital towards building a team that can win some games next year, but I won't hold my breath.


Nah, I never said they were done. I'm very optimistic with our prospects, especially JJ. The poster I was quoting alluded to the thought that 1 or 2 of them would be role players and that we need to draft these potential "stars" in the next draft. I was merely pointing out the irony of writing these guys off when they were the potential stars we tanked for the last go round and if it turns out that he is correct in saying they're only role players, then who's to say this upcoming draft is a sure thing.

I'm all for developing our players, creating structure and a culture and I wouldn't sacrifice these just to blatantly tank for a top pick. This is the other problem I have with tanking. I'd love to get one of these guys in the top 5 but at what expense? I agree with your evaluation, although I'm still on the fence with promoting Triano.

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1643840&start=2000#p62216873

The issue I have, however, is continuing to take players at positions we have 'covered'. If JJ is our future at the 3, yet we continue to start Warren, I believe they are on a train headed full-speed toward a mountain-side...it's not gonna be pretty. Something has to give. JJ cannot be the #4 overall pick and be our Bench SF...our '6th Man'; he needs to start and be developed as a starter. Warren is doing a great job as a starter, though he has his warts, of course. But everyday that Warren starts and continues to build up his résumé as a starter, and get better, how are 'you' (McD/Triano) gonna tell him--"Hey, thanks for all you've done as our starting SF...you've been great, but now we're going to demote you to 6th Man because we drafted JJ 4th overall, and he needs to be our starter."

Then, there's the 2 x 20-YO PFs drafted at the same time. Sorry, but Bender needs those reps as a starter as well to be developed properly, playing with the starters. And heck, Chriss isn;t even getting the 30-ish MPG he should be as a starter...why? WE have to play Bender. They're both being developed improperly, thus delaying the process, IMO.

Then add in the fact of our PG situation, which to me, is much more critical than our Center position right now, because our young guys need to develop with a 'Floor General'.

We're in a bad spot right now, so what is the best solution? Go get one of the young PGs out there that are stuck behind other PGs? Trade for an older PG on a team that wants to get a younger one some reps? Do we wait until the draft and get one there?

Thing is, let's say we go to the draft, as is, and let's say we are drafting 7th, and the following scenario plays out:

#1 - Bagley
#2 - Doncic
#3 - Ayton
#4 - Young
#5 - Bamba
#6 - Jaren Jackson
#7 - On the Clock

Who are you going to choose? Sexton is the next best PG and the logical choice. But you notice who's missing and supposed to be gone by now, but isn't, because Team #6 needed a playmaker at PF right now.

Well, we should take Porter, right?? NOOOOOO!!!! But we will, won't we. And your saying, as your reading this, Nav's crazy, you always take the BPA. And I'd say, you are right...

...OR, you shop the pick for the PG in the league that you want, because X team with said PG would LOVE to have Porter.
...OR, you trade some of our other assets at the SF/PF position for a PG.
...OR, you draft him, then 'trade him' down a few spots for a ridiculous payback in picks/players.

but you don't go into next season with Warren, JJ, Porter, Bender, and Chriss all on the same team, and expect they will all develop...again, with no PG.

So, I guess my point is, I really don't care which direction they decide to go, so long as they decide on a direction, instead of what feels like to us fans as directionless meandering.

I expect JJ begins next year coming off the bench. By the beginning of year 3, however, I expect to be the starter, with TJ being the league's best sixth man. I don't think we'll be able to keep JJ off the floor.

I think there's a very good chance we have a breakout season next year. I think we'll add one or two significant (rotation) free agents, including a starting PG. I think we'll also try to get a small upgrade at the C spot - probably just player who combines Tyson's rebounding with some offense. Players like that could be acquired on the cheap, I think, given the plethora of C's in the league at the moment. Add Williams, assume one of Knight or a draft pick gives us an upgrade over Ulis, and assume continued growth from our young players, and we'll have improved at every position - starters and backups alike.

As for your scenario - we might just take Porter. We'd have to really love Sexton to take him over Porter, unless his injury issue is especially prohibitive. I could see us trading down at a very steep premium - probably in the form of a very significant upgrade at the 1 or 5, and probably another future pick as well.

[Qwigglez]

I prefer us to to do absolutely nothing but release Monroe....then plummet down the standings and auger in. This squad is beyond repair and devoid of talent. We play like a group who just picked sides at the Y.

Our vets have no value as nobody will absorb their remaining 10Mil year for what little they can provide on the court. Our kids haven't shown anything to warrant a good player in return..... some of them playing their way to europe/china. (You hear me Ulis??) The big 3 of Jackson, Chris, Bender are good values but inconsistent contributors. Production for dollar says keep them. Plus, we wont get anything back in a deal. we have nothing but picks to offer... unless we are willing to part with Warren... and at this point, if we were able to get some legit PG talent back, I might do it. But I'd rather see where the lotto shakes out.

With the pathetic play this team has been showing us, Im banking on a real good chance to get one of Young or Doncic.Atleast a top 5. Either way, McD has some real work to do this off season... A coach, a legit PG, a C all have to be found as this is the last year we get rewarded for being one of the worst teams in the league. His roster hodge-podging has shown little cohesion from day one. And please, no lectures on how young these guys are. Bad is bad. If he can't put a team together with what he has had then its time to go. Christ he has traded away a GD starting team and has little to nothing to show for it. (Dragic/Bled/Mobro1/Mobro2/TheGortat for ????)

This year is easy. Just look away from the train wreck and wait for the draft. We've done it before.... but this has to stop and this team has to compete next yr/soon else McD will be McDumped.

Except we haven't done so well in the past two drafts, so maybe it's best we consolidate our assets and make a deal. Or hope Brandon becomes our white Knight.
I actually wish we would have just kept Bledsoe. At least then we would only have one gaping hole instead of two.

Have you seen that boner on reddit that spams the bender hate every chance he gets? His name is quizzlemynizzle or something like that and in the back of my head I always hope to myself it's not you but the name is too close to throw the case out!!! Actually I'm pretty sure it's slin slin from most notably ASFN and here.

Haven't seen that guy on Reddit but it sounds like he believes I am his nizzle.

[NavLDO]

Spoiler:

Ok Qwigglez, here's my take on the Portland deal.

I dont see them letting go of Nurkic, specially at that low of a price. Yeah, they also dump Turners large deal (Which they seem very interested in doing), i just dont see them doing it at the cost of Nurkic, as they are trying to free up capspace to re-sign Him, along with Napier and Connaughton. They have always wanted and yet lacked a big like him and they finally got him.

What i do find interesting is that a Portland Fan did create a trade on the trade board involving us (Along with Miami). The whole idea behind it was to, yes, cut salary to re-sign those 3 players i mentioned. Now what i thought was pretty interesting (And in a way blew my mind) was that they were getting rid of Turners salary by using CJ and his large deal (Opening up a ton of capspace).

Now while i dont agree with his trade idea (We got Turner but Miami got CJ), i think there could be a way to just cut miami completely out of it. Here was the trade he posted:

Portland in: Josh Richardson
Justice Winslow
Wayne Ellington
Tyson Chandler
Jared Dudley


Portland Out: CJ
Evan Turner
Jake Layman

Miami in: CJ
Jake Layman


Miami out: Josh Richardson
Tyler Johnson
Wayne Ellington
Justice Winslow
Kelly Olynk
2018 (lotto protected) 1st

Suns in: Tyler Johnson
Evan Turner
Kelly Olynk
Mia: 2018 (lotto protected) 1st

Suns out: Tyson Chandler
Jared Dudley


Why for Portland? - Portland uses CJ to get rid of Turner’s awful deal but also avoids using a pick to dump Turner and swings back a great 3&D in Josh Richardson having a great season and a nice young piece in Winslow both on solid contracts. Then they bite the salaries of Chandler and Dudley for the rest of this year and next year and will be out of salary hell to be able to resign guys like Napier, Connaughton, and Nurkić.

Potential starting lineup - Dame, Napier, Richardson, Aminu, Nurkic

Why for Miami? - Pat Riley gets his guy in CJ who is a lethal scorer and could possibly be even better if he was able to run the show full time. CJ and Whiteside pick n roll next to Dragic would be nice. They also set themselves up a lot better for next season by getting rid of Tyler Johnson who is owed $19 mil, Josh Richardson $10 mil, and Olynyk $10 mil

Why for Suns? - Suns get compensated a nice 1st round pick for their efforts facilitating while also getting rid of their older vets on bigger contracts (Dudley, Chandler) they take back Turner which is a terrible contract but they get compensated and can afford it and he actually might fit well in Phoenix being able to run an offense next to Booker and Jackson. Phoenix also gets Tyler Johnson who will be making a lot next year but is a good young player for Phoenix to try while they continue a rebuild. Kelly Olynk is a good role player on a decent contract and could give them insurance Incase Alex Len doesn’t return.

Seriously, if we could net CJ (while being forced to take on Turner) for the low price of...say Chandler/Dudley/Monroe and Chris(?), i think i would pull the trigger on that.

CJ/Booker Would be a killer combo. Deadly. Turner (while vastly overpaid) could take over Dudleys 6 MPG. Chandler? Monroe? No real loss there. Chris? Might be a tough pill for some to swallow, but sooner than later we will have to finally choose who between Him and Bender is going to be our guy (Hell maybe neither!).

Hell, on top of all that we keep our draft pick. Imagine if we still were able to land Young. I wonder how well Booker could play SF? I mean he does have the height (Maybe not the overall size). Imagine a line-up of:

Young/McCollum/Booker/Warren/Bender Everybody can score. Everybody has range...well, except for Warren. But everybody would be a threat. Crazy? Yes, i know.

Do you know da wae????

Wait...so you are saying we could get Miami's Lotto Protected 2018 1st Rd pick in the Deal? Sold! I'm in!

Sorry, I couldn't resist...apparently, the poster did little to no research before posting....