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Political Roundtable Part XVII

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#801 » by gtn130 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:22 am

Wizardspride wrote:I had forgotten all about that.

Even if you don't think he's a full blown racist, at the very least he's racially insensitive.

Extremely...


This is too charitable. Trump is indefensibly racist, as I'm sure you know, but there's no reason to compromise with folks on this one.

Not a comprehensive list, but Trump:

-Wouldn't rent to black people
-Said 1st black president is from Kenya
-Campaigned on banning Muslims
-Campaigned on building a wall to keep out rapists / murderers / drug dealers (aka Mexicans)
-Called Nazis "very fine people”, “many sides” etc

-Kaepernick flag kneeling / general dog whistle campaign rally garbage
-****hole comments

Really not sure how anyone can defend those things, let alone the collective body of work.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#802 » by stilldropin20 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:28 am

and.here.we.go.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#803 » by queridiculo » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:21 am

gtn130 wrote:This is too charitable. Trump is indefensibly racist, as I'm sure you know, but there's no reason to compromise with folks on this one.

Not a comprehensive list, but Trump:

-Wouldn't rent to black people
-Said 1st black president is from Kenya
-Campaigned on banning Muslims
-Campaigned on building a wall to keep out rapists / murderers / drug dealers (aka Mexicans)
-Called Nazis "very fine people”, “many sides” etc

-Kaepernick flag kneeling / general dog whistle campaign rally garbage
-****hole comments

Really not sure how anyone can defend those things, let alone the collective body of work.


Nevermind the whole business about Trump's obsession with Hitler's "My New Order".
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#804 » by dckingsfan » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:13 pm

gtn130 wrote:
Wizardspride wrote:I had forgotten all about that.

Even if you don't think he's a full blown racist, at the very least he's racially insensitive.

Extremely...


This is too charitable. Trump is indefensibly racist, as I'm sure you know, but there's no reason to compromise with folks on this one.

Not a comprehensive list, but Trump:

-Wouldn't rent to black people
-Said 1st black president is from Kenya
-Campaigned on banning Muslims
-Campaigned on building a wall to keep out rapists / murderers / drug dealers (aka Mexicans)
-Called Nazis "very fine people”, “many sides” etc

-Kaepernick flag kneeling / general dog whistle campaign rally garbage
-****hole comments

Really not sure how anyone can defend those things, let alone the collective body of work.

But he isn't just racist. He is the trifecta. He is an Ignorant, Narcissistic Racist. And that is what is truly dangerous - he brings out the worst in people.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#805 » by DCZards » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:18 pm

gtn130 wrote:
Wizardspride wrote:I had forgotten all about that.

Even if you don't think he's a full blown racist, at the very least he's racially insensitive.

Extremely...


This is too charitable. Trump is indefensibly racist, as I'm sure you know, but there's no reason to compromise with folks on this one.

Not a comprehensive list, but Trump:

-Wouldn't rent to black people
-Said 1st black president is from Kenya
-Campaigned on banning Muslims
-Campaigned on building a wall to keep out rapists / murderers / drug dealers (aka Mexicans)
-Called Nazis "very fine people”, “many sides” etc

-Kaepernick flag kneeling / general dog whistle campaign rally garbage
-****hole comments

Really not sure how anyone can defend those things, let alone the collective body of work.


...and let's not forget about Trump saying he couldn't get a fair hearing from the judge in Indiana because the judge was Mexican.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#806 » by Pointgod » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:50 pm

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#807 » by FAH1223 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:18 pm

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#808 » by stilldropin20 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:29 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
Ruzious wrote:You want higher birthrates, so we can help over-populate the world and over-use it's resources more? Sometimes the answer to one problem creates much bigger problems.

Here's a link to an article you might appreciate. https://qz.com/286213/the-chart-obama-haters-love-most-and-the-truth-behind-it/

You read me wrong :) I want greater immigration not up our birthrate... and (if I was the supreme ruler) the immigration policy would be skewed to bringing in 25 to 40 year old educated workers; female more than male; and with a notion that we would bring them from as many countries as possible (clearly won't happen in the Trump administration). That would mean terminating familial priority and birthright citizenship (clearly won't happen with the current D leadership).

And yes, good article AND Labor participation rates didn't just start falling in the Obama administration as my chart clearly shows. Zonk pointed out a long time ago that this is partially do to the stupid "war on crime" and "war on drugs". I would also add that our poor K12 education process is also to blame.

This is a problem that has spanned many administrations. Pinning it on one President is absurd.


https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/economic-optimism-tax-cut-bonuses-trump-credit/
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#809 » by Wizardspride » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:34 pm

Pointgod wrote:
Read on Twitter

I give up..... :nonono:

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#810 » by popper » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:57 pm

Pointgod wrote:
popper wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
So tell me what exactly the destruction of America looks like to you in terms of multiculturalism. What does national suicide look like?


I'd want to reopen my history books to give you an answer worthy of your time. I can easily imagine that subgroups of Americans would continue to splinter, but in a accelerated fashion, and hatred toward one another would intensify. Probably increasing race against race violence as well. Levels of trust among subgroups would disintegrate and any healthy avenue for interracial understanding would be constricted. These animosities would no doubt have a deleterious effect on our economic system as well.
Again, the history books are a better place to find the answers to your question.


I’m not an expert on American history, but racial violence was a reality for black people in America since the end of slavery. This never spilled out into a race war and black people never started insurgent groups or retaliated in kind to the treatment they had received. They fought for civil rights through peaceful means. The 60’s were a time of significant civil unrest in the name of civil rights and also there were a ton of assissinations thrown in there as well. My point is that America has been through a lot, yet it’s never slipped into the type of chaos you believe comes with multiculturalism. Are you basing your beliefs on sources or personal experience?


Sources. Obviously there's differing opinions on the matter but here's one interesting read.

Best of 2015Western Europe

The Failure of Multiculturalism
Community Versus Society in Europe
By Kenan Malik

Thirty years ago, many Europeans saw multiculturalism—the embrace of an inclusive, diverse society—as an answer to Europe’s social problems. Today, a growing number consider it to be a cause of them. That perception has led some mainstream politicians, including British Prime Minister David Cameron and German Chancellor Angela Merkel, to publicly denounce multiculturalism and speak out against its dangers. It has fueled the success of far-right parties and populist politicians across Europe, from the Party for Freedom in the Netherlands to the National Front in France. And in the most extreme cases, it has inspired obscene acts of violence, such as Anders Behring Breivik’s homicidal rampage on the Norwegian island of Utoya in July 2011.

How did this transformation come about? According to multiculturalism’s critics, Europe has allowed excessive immigration without demanding enough integration—a mismatch that has eroded social cohesion, undermined national identities, and degraded public trust. Multiculturalism’s proponents, on the other hand, counter that the problem is not too much diversity but too much racism.
But the truth about multiculturalism is far more complex than either side will allow, and the debate about it has often devolved into sophistry. Multiculturalism has become a proxy for other social and political issues: immigration, identity, political disenchantment, working-class decline. Different countries, moreover, have followed distinct paths. The United Kingdom has sought to give various ethnic communities an equal stake in the political system. Germany has encouraged immigrants to pursue separate lives in lieu of granting them citizenship. And France has rejected multicultural policies in favor of assimilationist ones. The specific outcomes have also varied: in the United Kingdom, there has been communal violence; in Germany, Turkish communities have drifted further from mainstream society; and in France, the relationship between the authorities and North African communities has become highly charged. But everywhere, the overarching consequences have been the same: fragmented societies, alienated minorities, and resentful citizenries……

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/western-europe/failure-multiculturalism
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#811 » by TGW » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:03 pm

^^That article seems to be mistitled. It should be called "The Failure of Bad Policy", not multiculturalism.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#812 » by popper » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:51 pm

TGW wrote:^^That article seems to be mistitled. It should be called "The Failure of Bad Policy", not multiculturalism.


That's a good point but the larger issue I took from the article is the inability of governments to formulate a set of values that unite and tie together the various cultures into a larger "national community." The same is happening in this country, and since there is no agreed upon set of American values to bind us together, then by default, we separate. This separation is encouraged by activist and identity focused media and political leaders. My two cents.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#813 » by Pointgod » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:34 pm

popper wrote:
TGW wrote:^^That article seems to be mistitled. It should be called "The Failure of Bad Policy", not multiculturalism.


That's a good point but the larger issue I took from the article is the inability of governments to formulate a set of values that unite and tie together the various cultures into a larger "national community." The same is happening in this country, and since there is no agreed upon set of American values to bind us together, then by default, we separate. This separation is encouraged by activist and identity focused media and political leaders. My two cents.


To the United State's credit they are better than most countries when it comes to integrating new immigrants so I don't think the failures of European countries can really apply. That being said the majority of people that are against multiculturalism live in regions that are a majority white so their experience with multiculturalism is probably limited. Did you ever consider that the whole multiculturalism issue is simply used as a scare tactic for votes and cable television views?
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Re: RE: Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#814 » by stilldropin20 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:41 pm

popper wrote:
TGW wrote:^^That article seems to be mistitled. It should be called "The Failure of Bad Policy", not multiculturalism.


That's a good point but the larger issue I took from the article is the inability of governments to formulate a set of values that unite and tie together the various cultures into a larger "national community." The same is happening in this country, and since there is no agreed upon set of American values to bind us together, then by default, we separate. This separation is encouraged by activist and identity focused media and political leaders. My two cents.

Yes. What that article says to me. Is that the failure is not multiculturalism. But indeed to integrate these Multicultural communities.

And Americans have shown that they will integrate. However reluctantly in some small factions.

Instead what we have in this country in my opinion is the left, Democrats, liberals, have now used multiculturalism as a weapon. To create lines of division. All so they can win votes.

Mlk was a uniter. Just like Booker Washington. Where Malcolm x and Dubois were divisive. And I understand that you need both. 1 as a cutter to break the ice and create the waves in the water so the ice won't form, and the other to bring sides together. I fully understand and appreciate that you need both I wrote a dissertation piece on this 25 years ago.

But where is the left's " uniter" today. I argue that they don't have one. And this is one of the Colossal failures of Barack Obama presidency. Like Booker. Like mlk. he was in the pole position to be "the Uniter" and he blew it. Simply, he would not compromise. He would not reach across the aisle and frankly across America. We thought he would. Landslide election in 2008. We certainly thought he would.

Instead. And worse. He went on an 8-year apology tour to the rest of the world weeking weakening are negotiating power across the entire globe as he tried to jam globalism down all Americans throats. He swore to all Americans up and down that 3-4% growth and above was no longer possible for the United States economy. Any further moved legislation along to move our jobs overseas. telling us that those manufacturing jobs were gone and lost forever.

The worst part is he wanted the new incoming Administration to be able to further his globalist agenda. So desperate to do so that he weaponized his outgoing DOJ to spy on and muck up the incoming Administration along the way. This will be a Nixonia type scandel when it's all said and done.

And where we find ourselves today is divided.

So the argument can be made that Obama for all his eloquent rhetoric, was more the Dubois or the Malcolm X of this era and indeed we are waiting for the MLK and the Booker T Washington of this era to step up.

Who will it be? I don't see him or her anywhere. All I see is dividers. And it doesn't work that way. It's not effective. You need a strong divisive voice combined with a more mild uniting voice to effect change. To unite communities. To unite the country.


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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#815 » by popper » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:43 pm

Pointgod wrote:
popper wrote:
TGW wrote:^^That article seems to be mistitled. It should be called "The Failure of Bad Policy", not multiculturalism.


That's a good point but the larger issue I took from the article is the inability of governments to formulate a set of values that unite and tie together the various cultures into a larger "national community." The same is happening in this country, and since there is no agreed upon set of American values to bind us together, then by default, we separate. This separation is encouraged by activist and identity focused media and political leaders. My two cents.


To the United State's credit they are better than most countries when it comes to integrating new immigrants so I don't think the failures of European countries can really apply. That being said the majority of people that are against multiculturalism live in regions that are a majority white so their experience with multiculturalism is probably limited. Did you ever consider that the whole multiculturalism issue is simply used as a scare tactic for votes and cable television views?


Sure. That's why included the bolded sentence above. My concern is more about "shared national values" that could serve to bring people together. I know from my time on this thread that I don't share the same values as many who post here. For example, here are just a few as a sample.

Self Defense - I believe our military should be able to fight and win two simultaneous wars

Personal Responsibility - I think having children out of wedlock should be actively and repeatedly discouraged in public service announcements and by our leaders

Immigration - should be merit based designed to achieve our national economic objectives

Fiscal responsibility including a balanced budget except in times of national emergencies
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#816 » by gtn130 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:45 pm

popper wrote:Fiscal responsibility including a balanced budget except in times of national emergencies


Weren't you in favor of the tax cuts? Lol
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#817 » by gtn130 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:46 pm

popper wrote:Self Defense - I believe our military should be able to fight and win two simultaneous wars


How do you even measure this? And two? Why two?
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#818 » by closg00 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:02 pm

stilldropin20 wrote:and.here.we.go.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#819 » by FAH1223 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:03 pm

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#820 » by stilldropin20 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:10 pm

stilldropin20 wrote:
popper wrote:
TGW wrote:^^That article seems to be mistitled. It should be called "The Failure of Bad Policy", not multiculturalism.


That's a good point but the larger issue I took from the article is the inability of governments to formulate a set of values that unite and tie together the various cultures into a larger "national community." The same is happening in this country, and since there is no agreed upon set of American values to bind us together, then by default, we separate. This separation is encouraged by activist and identity focused media and political leaders. My two cents.

Yes. What that article says to me. Is that the failure is not multiculturalism. But indeed to integrate these Multicultural communities.

And Americans have shown that they will integrate. However reluctantly in some small factions.

Instead what we have in this country in my opinion is the left, Democrats, liberals, have now used multiculturalism as a weapon. To create lines of division. All so they can win votes.

Mlk was a uniter. Just like Booker Washington. Where Malcolm x and Dubois were divisive. And I understand that you need both. 1 as a cutter to break the ice and create the waves in the water so the ice won't form, and the other to bring sides together. I fully understand and appreciate that you need both I wrote a dissertation piece on this 25 years ago.

But where is the left's " uniter" today. I argue that they don't have one. And this is one of the Colossal failures of Barack Obama presidency. Like Booker. Like mlk. he was in the pole position to be "the Uniter" and he blew it. Simply, he would not compromise. He would not reach across the aisle and frankly across America. We thought he would. Landslide election in 2008. We certainly thought he would.

Instead. And worse. He went on an 8-year apology tour to the rest of the world weeking weakening are negotiating power across the entire globe as he tried to jam globalism down all Americans throats. He swore to all Americans up and down that 3-4% growth and above was no longer possible for the United States economy. Any further moved legislation along to move our jobs overseas. telling us that those manufacturing jobs were gone and lost forever.

The worst part is he wanted the new incoming Administration to be able to further his globalist agenda. So desperate to do so that he weaponized his outgoing DOJ to spy on and muck up the incoming Administration along the way. This will be a Nixonia type scandel when it's all said and done.

And where we find ourselves today is divided.

So the argument can be made that Obama for all his eloquent rhetoric, was more the Dubois or the Malcolm X of this era and indeed we are waiting for the MLK and the Booker T Washington of this era to step up.

Who will it be? I don't see him or her anywhere. All I see is dividers. And it doesn't work that way. It's not effective. You need a strong divisive voice combined with a more mild uniting voice to effect change. To unite communities. To unite the country.


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Sorry to quote myself but I'll take this a step further.

One could look at the current state of affairs and say that it is Trump right now who is the great divider greasing the skids for Ivanka to become the "Uniter."

Which would be a massive opportunity lost for the left and Democrats because this theoretical unification will come on conservative terms.

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