Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5

[JMac1]

So, I haven't even read any response yet, to my my response this morning to this post, because I also wanted to point out a couple of items as to why I have a problem with 2 x PFs and 2 x SFs, and it has to do with, well, we are not Boston. We tried 3 combo Guards...or ...'positionless' Guards before, and it blew up in our face, and I've stated as much a couple of times. Warren has earned a starting spot. And while you and few other knowledgable Suns fans might be ok with JJ not starting, he likely won't, and it will have to do with his next contract. And the media won't and they'll consistently call him a bust for being a #4 overall pick and not a starter. He cannot 'fill the role' of a PG, and he's too small to be inside...I'm sorry, but there's 'positionless', and then there is insanity (no, I'm not calling you insane...I'm saying it waoul be insane to play him as a 'big'

I have NO aversion to 'positionless' basketball, and have mentioned on a few occasions that I've been open to Doncic coming in and fulfilling PG duties, or Booker playing the point, or whatever, so I do not thinks it's a fair comment to suggest that I 'ignore' positionless basketball, because I don't.

And when I was alluding to the Nets, I was ALSO including Lin in that conversation...that's 3 PGs that can start, and are better than any PG on our roster...or 'positionless' Combo Guard, or whatever you want to call a Guard that runs the point. I'm perfectly fine with Booker playing Combo Guard and us getting another one in here to play along side him. I've been an advocate of Warren playing the '4', and JJ playing the '2' when he can shoot. I am extremely open to 'positionless' basketball.

My point has ZERO to do with that, because we aren't DOING that. It's Bender in for Chriss, or JJ in Warren. When that changes...and I mean on a significant basis...not 2 minutes here and 2 minutes there...when that happens consistently, like 10-12 minutes a game, then tell me I'm being close minded. But right now, my comments are based off of how they are rotating them in and out and how they are playing them...nothing else.

Am I wrong? Are Chriss and Bender getting significant playing time together at the 4 and 5 or 3 and 4? Are Warren and JJ getting significant playing time playing together as the 2 and 3 or 3 and 4? If so...like I said...like consistently, every game for 10-12 minutes, then I'll gladly admit I am wrong and change my tune. Deal??

If they play enough minutes then why does it matter if they play together or not?

Because they aren't? 21MPG are not 'starter' level minutes...or, enough 'minutes' to develop like a starter, playing with other starters. Those 'young' players that are becoming 'good'--look at how many minutes they are playing, and who they are primarily playing with.

Tatum - 31MPG
Markannen - 30MPG
Mitchell - 31.5

Ball is getting the minutes, but he just, well, is very good at some things, and very bad at others.

Then you have a couple of outliers in OG and Bam.

But our guys are trending around 21 MPG; JJ is up a little ONLY because Warren has been out a couple of games.

But even if they did get the minutes, we still don't have our 'franchise' PG, or Booker running the point with another capable SG, or whatever starting 5 we are going to run.

Basically, if our 'goal' is 'positionless' basketball, as BW is ridiculing me for not being able to comprehend, then the Suns would be playing 'positionless' basketball. But oddly, they are not. When we start:

Booker / JJ / Warren / Bender / Chriss

and they get, what, 28? 30? Minutes per game, and then I complain about them not getting enough minutes developing, etc., etc., then sure, go ahead and ridicule by saying "I know you like to ignore blah, blah, blah 'positionless' blah, blah..."

But that is NOT what is going on.

Chriss plays, Chriss gets taken out. Bender gets put in, Bender gets taken out, Chriss gets put in, etc. etc.

Warren plays, Warren gets taken out. JJ gets put in, JJ gets taken out, Warren gets put in, etc., etc.

Exactly like that? No, but pretty close, yeah?

So, if I'm going to get lectured on 'positionless' basketball, when the Suns don't employ that strategy...at least as far as I have seen, well, that argument does hold much water, IMO.

I agree with you 100 percent. You are not crazy. I would love to see that a few times a game.

[NavLDO]

So, I haven't even read any response yet, to my my response this morning to this post, because I also wanted to point out a couple of items as to why I have a problem with 2 x PFs and 2 x SFs, and it has to do with, well, we are not Boston. We tried 3 combo Guards...or ...'positionless' Guards before, and it blew up in our face, and I've stated as much a couple of times. Warren has earned a starting spot. And while you and few other knowledgable Suns fans might be ok with JJ not starting, he likely won't, and it will have to do with his next contract. And the media won't and they'll consistently call him a bust for being a #4 overall pick and not a starter. He cannot 'fill the role' of a PG, and he's too small to be inside...I'm sorry, but there's 'positionless', and then there is insanity (no, I'm not calling you insane...I'm saying it waoul be insane to play him as a 'big'

I have NO aversion to 'positionless' basketball, and have mentioned on a few occasions that I've been open to Doncic coming in and fulfilling PG duties, or Booker playing the point, or whatever, so I do not thinks it's a fair comment to suggest that I 'ignore' positionless basketball, because I don't.

And when I was alluding to the Nets, I was ALSO including Lin in that conversation...that's 3 PGs that can start, and are better than any PG on our roster...or 'positionless' Combo Guard, or whatever you want to call a Guard that runs the point. I'm perfectly fine with Booker playing Combo Guard and us getting another one in here to play along side him. I've been an advocate of Warren playing the '4', and JJ playing the '2' when he can shoot. I am extremely open to 'positionless' basketball.

My point has ZERO to do with that, because we aren't DOING that. It's Bender in for Chriss, or JJ in Warren. When that changes...and I mean on a significant basis...not 2 minutes here and 2 minutes there...when that happens consistently, like 10-12 minutes a game, then tell me I'm being close minded. But right now, my comments are based off of how they are rotating them in and out and how they are playing them...nothing else.

Am I wrong? Are Chriss and Bender getting significant playing time together at the 4 and 5 or 3 and 4? Are Warren and JJ getting significant playing time playing together as the 2 and 3 or 3 and 4? If so...like I said...like consistently, every game for 10-12 minutes, then I'll gladly admit I am wrong and change my tune. Deal??

Well, I think for the most part it's best not to play either of those pairs much together yet. Maybe in brief stretches. We still don't know which ones will develop. I am fine alternating them for the most part. You need two deep at every position and neither PF has shown they are a certain future starting caliber PF on a good team. JJ hasn't shown it either. Warren has shown he can score from mid range and is a good starter now.

We still have way more questions to answer than having "too many starting caliber young guys". None of these guys have proven squat yet. And just like if they think Porter is a Durant type talent and is the best player on the board when we pick, we don't pass because of who is on our squad unless there is an equally appealing player in our same tier.

I am still unsure of how much you watch of our team because it feels as though you vastly overrate how good some of these guys are right now. Or maybe that you think the only reason they are not great already is because they need to be on the court at opening tip every night and to play 40 mpg with a Shabazz Napier level PG and that would magically eliminate all the flaws they currently show.

Well, admittedly, I can only watch what I can find on the www the following day, and sometimes that's quite a bit, and sometimes, it's 2 minutes of highlights, so yeah, I likely do overrate these guys.

But my goodness, we aren't 'going anywhere' with current set up; we all know something needs to change. Playing our young guys 21 minutes per night isn't solving anything. I offer one suggestion, and admittedly, harp on it over and over. But I'd be fine, as I just mentioned, playing:

Booker / JJ / Warren / Bender / Chriss

...on the floor together for 20 MPG, then rotate them in and out through the rest of the game so they all get their minutes, which my 'magical' number has always been 28 MPG.

What do we have to lose, other than the game, but employing that lineup. They all learn to play together, our core, then as we 'build' and bring in a couple more pieces...a PG and C type...we can integrate them, then we have a core of 8 (I'm going to include Reed) that we can build around.

So there...there's something different from me. But do something! Either employ your 'positionless' basketball notion and develop these guys together, or don't, and get a PG and Center, trade one of the PF and one of the SF to use as assets, and build a core of 5, with some Vets to bring in off the bench.

So, I really don't care WHAT they do, but this current plan is pointless to me to keep following...

[Frank Lee]

Trust me, its so much easier not to follow this train wreck. I tune in almost every game, but its like a perpetual summer league.

Thjs is the final 'Wait till next year' for me though.


Im very curious if there is a coaching list being formulated.

[MathiasPW]

So Gambo's idea to chase the 8th seed and get George Hill a week on seems not so great 7.5 games out of 8th seed.

I think sometimes he just has to fill segments but people take him literally.

He got excited after that OKC win like a lot of us did. Warren and Chris's missing the last 3 has hurt. I figure with a healthy squad they can play at a 10-8 seed level. But it's impossible to be healthy every game.

In the end this 11 game stretch - starting with OKC and ending in HOU - is probably the most important of the season. Even with a healthy roster it would have been unlikely they finished above .500. While I would have liked to seen them go after it with Warren and Chriss on the floor the fact that they weren't allowed us to lose and couch it in a good excuse. That's tanking with out the side affects.

We've had a lot of soft injuries lately. Groin, back spasms, rolled ankles. I thought our training staff had a whole program designed to keep your body balanced and reduce frequency of injuries.



We didn't lose anyone from our medical staff, did we?

[BobbieL]

So Gambo's idea to chase the 8th seed and get George Hill a week on seems not so great 7.5 games out of 8th seed.

I think sometimes he just has to fill segments but people take him literally.

He got excited after that OKC win like a lot of us did. Warren and Chris's missing the last 3 has hurt. I figure with a healthy squad they can play at a 10-8 seed level. But it's impossible to be healthy every game.

In the end this 11 game stretch - starting with OKC and ending in HOU - is probably the most important of the season. Even with a healthy roster it would have been unlikely they finished above .500. While I would have liked to seen them go after it with Warren and Chriss on the floor the fact that they weren't allowed us to lose and couch it in a good excuse. That's tanking with out the side affects.

A few weeks ago - I was on the George Hill/Kosta Koufos for Monroe and Knight - in fact I still would be. But Monroe for Hill would be stupid. It would be adding 20m of cap space next year for well, little to no reason. Well, not stupid, the team does need a better PG that's for sure.

But I am not sure even with GEorge Hill the Suns make the playoffs - and all they would do is get meaningless wins and wreck the ping pong balls. Now, if the Suns don't trade for George Hill and win games because the team is playing better - that's another thing.

But to be honest, I am not sure I want to trade for George Hill to chase a playoff spot and finish 12th. If the current group does it on their own, fine. I get its a fine line.

And this stretch for the last part of the season is tough - not sure how much Hill even would help

[RaisingArizona]

K
E
M
B
A
W
A
L
K
E
R

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

So Gambo's idea to chase the 8th seed and get George Hill a week on seems not so great 7.5 games out of 8th seed.

I think sometimes he just has to fill segments but people take him literally.

He got excited after that OKC win like a lot of us did. Warren and Chris's missing the last 3 has hurt. I figure with a healthy squad they can play at a 10-8 seed level. But it's impossible to be healthy every game.

In the end this 11 game stretch - starting with OKC and ending in HOU - is probably the most important of the season. Even with a healthy roster it would have been unlikely they finished above .500. While I would have liked to seen them go after it with Warren and Chriss on the floor the fact that they weren't allowed us to lose and couch it in a good excuse. That's tanking with out the side affects.

A few weeks ago - I was on the George Hill/Kosta Koufos for Monroe and Knight - in fact I still would be. But Monroe for Hill would be stupid. It would be adding 20m of cap space next year for well, little to no reason. Well, not stupid, the team does need a better PG that's for sure.

But I am not sure even with GEorge Hill the Suns make the playoffs - and all they would do is get meaningless wins and wreck the ping pong balls. Now, if the Suns don't trade for George Hill and win games because the team is playing better - that's another thing.

But to be honest, I am not sure I want to trade for George Hill to chase a playoff spot and finish 12th. If the current group does it on their own, fine. I get its a fine line.

And this stretch for the last part of the season is tough - not sure how much Hill even would help

I agree. We're better off just holding onto that cap space.

I'm not a huge fan of Payton, but it dawned on me the other day that he was the least disappointing of the PGs taken in the lottery. What a disappointment that 2014 draft turned out to be. What a surprise the 2015 draft turned out to be.

[Frank Lee]

K
E
M
B
A
W
A
L
K
E
R

$
1
0
0
M
I
L
L
I
O
N
T
O
K
E
E
P
H
I
M



seriously... he is going to demand a bank breaker in 2020. I want some talent here, but holy smokes.... you really only get one good year of value from Kemba... then its up in the air.

[jredsaz]

Totally agree woth frank the tank. Suns would have to give up a lot of assets for the 9th or 10th best PG in the NBA and then have to pay him like a top 10 player in the NBA.

Is Kemba better than Bledsoe? Yeah. But not by much. If it were Dame or Kyrie I would pull the trigger.

[BobbieL]

He got excited after that OKC win like a lot of us did. Warren and Chris's missing the last 3 has hurt. I figure with a healthy squad they can play at a 10-8 seed level. But it's impossible to be healthy every game.

In the end this 11 game stretch - starting with OKC and ending in HOU - is probably the most important of the season. Even with a healthy roster it would have been unlikely they finished above .500. While I would have liked to seen them go after it with Warren and Chriss on the floor the fact that they weren't allowed us to lose and couch it in a good excuse. That's tanking with out the side affects.

A few weeks ago - I was on the George Hill/Kosta Koufos for Monroe and Knight - in fact I still would be. But Monroe for Hill would be stupid. It would be adding 20m of cap space next year for well, little to no reason. Well, not stupid, the team does need a better PG that's for sure.

But I am not sure even with GEorge Hill the Suns make the playoffs - and all they would do is get meaningless wins and wreck the ping pong balls. Now, if the Suns don't trade for George Hill and win games because the team is playing better - that's another thing.

But to be honest, I am not sure I want to trade for George Hill to chase a playoff spot and finish 12th. If the current group does it on their own, fine. I get its a fine line.

And this stretch for the last part of the season is tough - not sure how much Hill even would help

I agree. We're better off just holding onto that cap space.

I'm not a huge fan of Payton, but it dawned on me the other day that he was the least disappointing of the PGs taken in the lottery. What a disappointment that 2014 draft turned out to be. What a surprise the 2015 draft turned out to be.

I am not against trading Monroe for a longer term bigger contract - just not sure Hill is the guy. Yes, he would be a better PG that's for sure. But at the expense of next years cap - I don't get it

Now ifyou tell me the Suns traded Chandler to say the Twolves for Aldrich/Bjelica so they are losing that cap space - well maybe Hill makes some sense in that regard as you have Chandlers money to spend on another player.

[hollywood6964]

So Gambo's idea to chase the 8th seed and get George Hill a week on seems not so great 7.5 games out of 8th seed.

I think sometimes he just has to fill segments but people take him literally.

He got excited after that OKC win like a lot of us did. Warren and Chris's missing the last 3 has hurt. I figure with a healthy squad they can play at a 10-8 seed level. But it's impossible to be healthy every game.

In the end this 11 game stretch - starting with OKC and ending in HOU - is probably the most important of the season. Even with a healthy roster it would have been unlikely they finished above .500. While I would have liked to seen them go after it with Warren and Chriss on the floor the fact that they weren't allowed us to lose and couch it in a good excuse. That's tanking with out the side affects.

I didn't get excited. Okc has big names that can't play together. They also play down to their competition. A lot of losses to bad teams, including us. They were leaving everyone wide open all game.

No doubt we'd be playing better with Warren, n maybe a bit better w chris, maybe.....but we'd still be getting hammered by this increasingly difficult schedule.

[RaisingArizona]

Kemba is better than Bledsoe in every facet. Shooting, scoring, efficiency, injury-free, team player, etc. What's not to like? Yeah, he may command a major contract. Most great players will... Kind of how it works. Unless you'd like to keep drafting the 18 year olds and waiting 5 years to see them be productive.

[Damkac]

I would say that Booker in his 3rd year is pretty productive already. For Warren it also didn't took 5 years. I expect big progress from Chriss and Bender next year.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I would say that Booker in his 3rd year is pretty productive already. For Warren it also didn't took 5 years. I expect big progress from Chriss and Bender next year.

Every player is different. I think Chriss will take extra time to find consistency. I don't expect Bender to find consistency any earlier, but I think his value on the court will show earlier because the shot is already there. He should have the strength he needs by age 22, and that's when I expect him to start showing flashes of his ceiling.

[bwgood77]

So, I haven't even read any response yet, to my my response this morning to this post, because I also wanted to point out a couple of items as to why I have a problem with 2 x PFs and 2 x SFs, and it has to do with, well, we are not Boston. We tried 3 combo Guards...or ...'positionless' Guards before, and it blew up in our face, and I've stated as much a couple of times. Warren has earned a starting spot. And while you and few other knowledgable Suns fans might be ok with JJ not starting, he likely won't, and it will have to do with his next contract. And the media won't and they'll consistently call him a bust for being a #4 overall pick and not a starter. He cannot 'fill the role' of a PG, and he's too small to be inside...I'm sorry, but there's 'positionless', and then there is insanity (no, I'm not calling you insane...I'm saying it waoul be insane to play him as a 'big'

I have NO aversion to 'positionless' basketball, and have mentioned on a few occasions that I've been open to Doncic coming in and fulfilling PG duties, or Booker playing the point, or whatever, so I do not thinks it's a fair comment to suggest that I 'ignore' positionless basketball, because I don't.

And when I was alluding to the Nets, I was ALSO including Lin in that conversation...that's 3 PGs that can start, and are better than any PG on our roster...or 'positionless' Combo Guard, or whatever you want to call a Guard that runs the point. I'm perfectly fine with Booker playing Combo Guard and us getting another one in here to play along side him. I've been an advocate of Warren playing the '4', and JJ playing the '2' when he can shoot. I am extremely open to 'positionless' basketball.

My point has ZERO to do with that, because we aren't DOING that. It's Bender in for Chriss, or JJ in Warren. When that changes...and I mean on a significant basis...not 2 minutes here and 2 minutes there...when that happens consistently, like 10-12 minutes a game, then tell me I'm being close minded. But right now, my comments are based off of how they are rotating them in and out and how they are playing them...nothing else.

Am I wrong? Are Chriss and Bender getting significant playing time together at the 4 and 5 or 3 and 4? Are Warren and JJ getting significant playing time playing together as the 2 and 3 or 3 and 4? If so...like I said...like consistently, every game for 10-12 minutes, then I'll gladly admit I am wrong and change my tune. Deal??

If they play enough minutes then why does it matter if they play together or not?

Because they aren't? 21MPG are not 'starter' level minutes...or, enough 'minutes' to develop like a starter, playing with other starters. Those 'young' players that are becoming 'good'--look at how many minutes they are playing, and who they are primarily playing with.

Tatum - 31MPG
Markannen - 30MPG
Mitchell - 31.5

Ball is getting the minutes, but he just, well, is very good at some things, and very bad at others.

Then you have a couple of outliers in OG and Bam.

But our guys are trending around 21 MPG; JJ is up a little ONLY because Warren has been out a couple of games.

But even if they did get the minutes, we still don't have our 'franchise' PG, or Booker running the point with another capable SG, or whatever starting 5 we are going to run.

Basically, if our 'goal' is 'positionless' basketball, as BW is ridiculing me for not being able to comprehend, then the Suns would be playing 'positionless' basketball. But oddly, they are not. When we start:

Booker / JJ / Warren / Bender / Chriss

and they get, what, 28? 30? Minutes per game, and then I complain about them not getting enough minutes developing, etc., etc., then sure, go ahead and ridicule by saying "I know you like to ignore blah, blah, blah 'positionless' blah, blah..."

But that is NOT what is going on.

Chriss plays, Chriss gets taken out. Bender gets put in, Bender gets taken out, Chriss gets put in, etc. etc.

Warren plays, Warren gets taken out. JJ gets put in, JJ gets taken out, Warren gets put in, etc., etc.

Exactly like that? No, but pretty close, yeah?

So, if I'm going to get lectured on 'positionless' basketball, when the Suns don't employ that strategy...at least as far as I have seen, well, that argument does hold much water, IMO.

You ever think the guys GET more minutes BECAUSE they are playing well and not vice versa? It usually works more that way then they other way around.

Also, yes, we play positionless basketball. We play with a bunch of wings/floor spreaders and a big in the middle. I know you've mentioned you rarely watch the Suns but we don't play a traditional PF role.....Bender, for example plays more like a 2...spotted up on the perimeter...guarding the perimeter...we never throw it down to him in the low post..all but the Centers mostly stand on the perimeter to stretch the floor other than maybe the ball handler, who is not only the "PG" but can be Ulis, Booker, Jackson, etc. So yeah, they are not playing traditional positions.

[Saberestar]

Kemba is better than Bledsoe in every facet. Shooting, scoring, efficiency, injury-free, team player, etc. What's not to like? Yeah, he may command a major contract. Most great players will... Kind of how it works. Unless you'd like to keep drafting the 18 year olds and waiting 5 years to see them be productive.

I like Kemba and I would put an offer for him, but I think that the Hornets are gonna ask for too much because they do not really want to trade him.

[bwgood77]

Kemba is better than Bledsoe in every facet. Shooting, scoring, efficiency, injury-free, team player, etc. What's not to like? Yeah, he may command a major contract. Most great players will... Kind of how it works. Unless you'd like to keep drafting the 18 year olds and waiting 5 years to see them be productive.

Are you advocating going after him in FA? Or just trying to trade a bunch of stuff for him sooner and then hoping he stays? I don't see what we'd have that they might want. What do they have now? Rebounding Centers...check.....stretch 4s....check.....small forwards that can't shoot...check...

They would need a PG if we traded for him...or maybe a SG.

Anyway, not that I like this writer much, but...

Read on Twitter

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Kemba is better than Bledsoe in every facet. Shooting, scoring, efficiency, injury-free, team player, etc. What's not to like? Yeah, he may command a major contract. Most great players will... Kind of how it works. Unless you'd like to keep drafting the 18 year olds and waiting 5 years to see them be productive.

Are you advocating going after him in FA? Or just trying to trade a bunch of stuff for him sooner and then hoping he stays? I don't see what we'd have that they might want. What do they have now? Rebounding Centers...check.....stretch 4s....check.....small forwards that can't shoot...check...

They would need a PG if we traded for him...or maybe a SG.

Anyway, not that I like this writer much, but...

Read on Twitter

Yeah I don't know if it gets much worse than Steve Kyler. He (1) has no inside info, (2) but pretends to, (3) is almost always wrong and (4) a real **** about it.

[gaspar]

The Suns are 11-9 under Triano with Booker, Warren, Chriss and Chandler all playing.

[TeamTragic]

So Gambo's idea to chase the 8th seed and get George Hill a week on seems not so great 7.5 games out of 8th seed.

I think sometimes he just has to fill segments but people take him literally.

7.5 games from the playoffs. George Hill the answer #GAMBO