The ROTY/Rookie Discussion Thread, Part III

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People really underestimate Mitchell's passing and playmaking because he doesn't net a ton of assists. What they ignore is that the system the Jazz play doesn't create many assists for singular players. Just check Ricky Rubio's assist numbers for the Jazz and for the rest of his career for prime example. Mitchell is having higher AST% than Hayward did last two years and his playmaking was one of his good attribute anyone would point to.

[UcanUwill]

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People really underestimate Mitchell's passing and playmaking because he doesn't net a ton of assists. What they ignore is that the system the Jazz play doesn't create many assists for singular players. Just check Ricky Rubio's assist numbers for the Jazz and for the rest of his career for prime example. Mitchell is having higher AST% than Hayward did last two years and his playmaking was one of his good attribute anyone would point to.

Can you expand on that system? What exactly makes it harder to get assists?

[PierceFan4ever]

Damn it's crazy how much better Mitchell looks compared to Fox who was drafted much higher. Didn't really pay much attention to college players aside from the top 5 picks basically but what was the scout on Mitchell?

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People really underestimate Mitchell's passing and playmaking because he doesn't net a ton of assists. What they ignore is that the system the Jazz play doesn't create many assists for singular players. Just check Ricky Rubio's assist numbers for the Jazz and for the rest of his career for prime example. Mitchell is having higher AST% than Hayward did last two years and his playmaking was one of his good attribute anyone would point to.

Can you expand on that system? What exactly makes it harder to get assists?

You don't really have a primary ballhandler. The player that brings the ball up the court almost always gives it up when he crosses halfcourt and cuts. The system relies on a ton of ball-reversals and keeping the defense off-balance. There was an article on it a while ago that explored Snyder's system and how his European experiences influenced it - in essence there are a ton of passes around the perimeter in search for mismatch or creating an advantage and when you get the advantage you push it, no matter who it is. That's why we've been having several capable ballhandlers/playmakers on the court almost always and thus the assists are spread out and the reason assists overall are down is 1. slow pace and 2. when a perceived mismatch is achieved it usually turns into an iso/post up possessions which don't give you assists.

https://sports.vice.com/en_ca/article/wjx4wy/quin-snyders-russian-detour-made-him-one-of-the-nbas-top-coaches

[LakersSoul]

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People really underestimate Mitchell's passing and playmaking because he doesn't net a ton of assists. What they ignore is that the system the Jazz play doesn't create many assists for singular players. Just check Ricky Rubio's assist numbers for the Jazz and for the rest of his career for prime example. Mitchell is having higher AST% than Hayward did last two years and his playmaking was one of his good attribute anyone would point to.

Can you expand on that system? What exactly makes it harder to get assists?

You don't really have a primary ballhandler. The player that brings the ball up the court almost always gives it up when he crosses halfcourt and cuts. The system relies on a ton of ball-reversals and keeping the defense off-balance. There was an article on it a while ago that explored Snyder's system and how his European experiences influenced it - in essence there are a ton of passes around the perimeter in search for mismatch or creating an advantage and when you get the advantage you push it, no matter who it is. That's why we've been having several capable ballhandlers/playmakers on the court almost always and thus the assists are spread out and the reason assists overall are down is 1. slow pace and 2. when a perceived mismatch is achieved it usually turns into an iso/post up possessions which don't give you assists.

https://sports.vice.com/en_ca/article/wjx4wy/quin-snyders-russian-detour-made-him-one-of-the-nbas-top-coaches

I dont follow the Jazz that closely but not buying it. That said, Rubio's assist numbers are really down 4.7 Vs 8.1 career. Overall, Rubio is having a real poor year. Rubio is shooting is also down from 3 point range, 29.5%, which is even worse than Lonzo Ball. Not good for a guy getting paid 2nd highest on the team.

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I dont follow the Jazz that closely but not buying it. That said, Rubio's assist numbers are really down 4.7 Vs 8.1 career. Overall, Rubio is having a real poor year. Rubio is shooting is also down from 3 point range, 29.5%, which is even worse than Lonzo Ball. Not good for a guy getting paid 2nd highest on the team.

The Jazz haven't had a single player break 5 assists per game barrier since Quin Snyder came to the team. I don't know what kind of evidence you want. Ricky is having a bad season precisely because he doesn't fit the system that robs him off his best attribute - playmaking for others because it forces him to give up the ball when crosses halfcourt and embellishes his worst attributes - spot up shooting and finishing because he gets more of those when he gives up the ball...

[LakersSoul]

I dont follow the Jazz that closely but not buying it. That said, Rubio's assist numbers are really down 4.7 Vs 8.1 career. Overall, Rubio is having a real poor year. Rubio is shooting is also down from 3 point range, 29.5%, which is even worse than Lonzo Ball. Not good for a guy getting paid 2nd highest on the team.

The Jazz haven't had a single player break 5 assists per game barrier since Quin Snyder came to the team. I don't know what kind of evidence you want. Ricky is having a bad season precisely because he doesn't fit the system that robs him off his best attribute - playmaking for others because it forces him to give up the ball when crosses halfcourt and embellishes his worst attributes - spot up shooting and finishing because he gets more of those when he gives up the ball...

George Hill:
Assists w/Jazz 2017: 4.2 apg
Assists w/Sac 2018: 2.7 apg

Hill's career average is 3.3 while he got 4.2 with the Jazz last season. No real proof that the system reduces the number of assists.

[stitches]

I dont follow the Jazz that closely but not buying it. That said, Rubio's assist numbers are really down 4.7 Vs 8.1 career. Overall, Rubio is having a real poor year. Rubio is shooting is also down from 3 point range, 29.5%, which is even worse than Lonzo Ball. Not good for a guy getting paid 2nd highest on the team.

The Jazz haven't had a single player break 5 assists per game barrier since Quin Snyder came to the team. I don't know what kind of evidence you want. Ricky is having a bad season precisely because he doesn't fit the system that robs him off his best attribute - playmaking for others because it forces him to give up the ball when crosses halfcourt and embellishes his worst attributes - spot up shooting and finishing because he gets more of those when he gives up the ball...

George Hill:
Assists w/Jazz 2017: 4.2 apg
Assists w/Sac 2018: 2.7 apg

Hill's career average is 3.3 while he got 4.2 with the Jazz last season. No real proof that the system reduces the number of assists.

Yes, because Hill was asked to stay in the corner for the Pacers and because he looks shot in SAC right now. The Jazz gave him the opportunity to playmake along with our other ballhandlers, which results in precisely that... assists spread out between the team's ballhandlers in the range of 3.5 to 5 apg...

edit: I just checked this year's PnR opportunities for Hil(3,3 per game)l, he had twice as many per game in his year with the Jazz(6.6). I cannot find the stat for his time in IND, but I would be shocked if it's not similarly low compared to to what he got with the Jazz.

[RaptorsLife]

[Cappy_Smurf]

I dont follow the Jazz that closely but not buying it.

George Hill:
Assists w/Jazz 2017: 4.2 apg
Assists w/Sac 2018: 2.7 apg

Hill's career average is 3.3 while he got 4.2 with the Jazz last season. No real proof that the system reduces the number of assists.

Snyder has not been running just one system. With George Hill on the team, Snyder was letting him run the offense a lot more often. When he tried to do that with Rubio early, teams would sag off Rubio, which was a real problem with Favors and Gobert on the floor, since neither can space the floor. Our spacing was a joke and the offense just couldn't run that way. We tried to get out and run, but the half-court offense was completely dysfunctional, so Snyder switched things up.

Sticthes is absolutely correct that Snyder started running a system with nobody as the main ball handler. The ball gets brought up and then moved around as much as possible to try and find the hole in the defense. Utah's shots usually come later in the shot clock. If you go watch some of those games where Utah won by 40+ points, you'll see ball movement similar to those old Kings teams with Vlade/Bibbi/Webber. It works really well when our shots are falling.

Anyway, whether you buy it or not, Snyder's offense right now is designed to have assists spread around evenly instead of using one guy to set everybody else up. There's plenty of games to watch if you care to educate yourself. Unless you're one of those fans who thinks everybody uses the same system. In that case, believe whatever you want.

Once Utah gets a stretch 4 to play next to Gobert, I think we'll see a lot more of Mitchell running the offense, and his assist #s should go up. Probably not this year, as Mitchell is getting worn out a lot of times with very little help on the offensive end, but next year I expect to see Mitchell running things more.

[MissileMike]

Collins has a 21 per and shoots 60% from the field. Why does he not get more minutes?

[CoreyVillains]

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People really underestimate Mitchell's passing and playmaking because he doesn't net a ton of assists. What they ignore is that the system the Jazz play doesn't create many assists for singular players. Just check Ricky Rubio's assist numbers for the Jazz and for the rest of his career for prime example. Mitchell is having higher AST% than Hayward did last two years and his playmaking was one of his good attribute anyone would point to.

Can you expand on that system? What exactly makes it harder to get assists?

You don't really have a primary ballhandler. The player that brings the ball up the court almost always gives it up when he crosses halfcourt and cuts. The system relies on a ton of ball-reversals and keeping the defense off-balance. There was an article on it a while ago that explored Snyder's system and how his European experiences influenced it - in essence there are a ton of passes around the perimeter in search for mismatch or creating an advantage and when you get the advantage you push it, no matter who it is. That's why we've been having several capable ballhandlers/playmakers on the court almost always and thus the assists are spread out and the reason assists overall are down is 1. slow pace and 2. when a perceived mismatch is achieved it usually turns into an iso/post up possessions which don't give you assists.

https://sports.vice.com/en_ca/article/wjx4wy/quin-snyders-russian-detour-made-him-one-of-the-nbas-top-coaches

I think its pretty smart too. Rubio, Mitchell, Ingles, and Hood are all capable of attacking a mistake and kicking/creating.

[justin12140]

Anyone know how DSJ has been performing so far for the mavs?

[SeattleJazzFan]

I dont follow the Jazz that closely but not buying it. That said, Rubio's assist numbers are really down 4.7 Vs 8.1 career. Overall, Rubio is having a real poor year. Rubio is shooting is also down from 3 point range, 29.5%, which is even worse than Lonzo Ball. Not good for a guy getting paid 2nd highest on the team.

The Jazz haven't had a single player break 5 assists per game barrier since Quin Snyder came to the team. I don't know what kind of evidence you want. Ricky is having a bad season precisely because he doesn't fit the system that robs him off his best attribute - playmaking for others because it forces him to give up the ball when crosses halfcourt and embellishes his worst attributes - spot up shooting and finishing because he gets more of those when he gives up the ball...

George Hill:
Assists w/Jazz 2017: 4.2 apg
Assists w/Sac 2018: 2.7 apg

Hill's career average is 3.3 while he got 4.2 with the Jazz last season. No real proof that the system reduces the number of assists.

lol. your argument that the system doesn't reduce the number of individual assists is a PG who averaged 4.2. keep digging.

[SeattleJazzFan]

Collins has a 21 per and shoots 60% from the field. Why does he not get more minutes?

that's a very good question. my best guess is fouling (though I haven't looked at his foul numbers) and/or defense. though last night they had him defending Brow down the stretch of a tight game.

[SeattleJazzFan]

[levon]

[SeattleJazzFan]

Ball's shooting is pretty much historically bad, but considering how he impacts the Lakers in a positive way (15-21 with him; 0-8 without) and that chart is pretty clear as well, shows how good he is in nearly every other aspect of the game. impressive.

[Duke4life831]

Anyone know how DSJ has been performing so far for the mavs?

Hes had an up and down season, hes been dealing with some small nagging injuries as well. Hes put together a really solid 9 game streak as of late with numbers of

18/4/6 on 44/39/79 shooting numbers and a 2:1 assist to TO ratio.

The dude is definitely showing flashes of great play.

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