DeAndre Ayton

[HeadtopChunes]

Great hands, crazy coordination and mobility for size, good inside outside touch.

Just not sure he has the fluidity+dynamism+skill level to be a high usage offensive center and struggle to see him becoming physical and instinctive enough defensively to make up for that.

Has the natural talent to be a productive big, but I question how much a team with him as the focal point can win.

https://cleaningtheglass.com/midseason-draft-review-deandre-ayton/

Ben Falk wrote an article about Ayton for his draft review series.

He talked about the physical tools, offensive touch

But his main concern was Aytons BBIQ. This is something that can be improved but is a concerning flag. Ayton does not have the greatest feel for the game.

Which really supports what you are saying. These are fixable problems of course but the question is how much?

Which really swings back to the debate of physical tools vs feel for the game. Whats more valuable?

But you gotta factor in that - while the BBIQ hasn't shown up YET, he's still put tremendous production and done it efficiently. If the BBIQ does come around, you have a freak.

Which is a good point. Its possible Ayton just develops that part of his game with experience.

Ayton isnt totally hopeless in that realm either. he can make the right play some times. I need to watch more tape but ive seen him make the right pass just as much as the wrong one. Defensively he recognizes his assignments most of the time but also ball watches and loses his man a ton too.

But honestly passing is not my biggest concern with Ayton. Porzingis enjoys a ton of success while being a pretty poor passer. It his defensive awareness im concerned about. The defensive responsibilities of a center in the NBA are crucial to the success of a team. Its something to keep an eye on throughout the year but its something that can have a huge impact on his celing.

[Ruzious]

https://cleaningtheglass.com/midseason-draft-review-deandre-ayton/

Ben Falk wrote an article about Ayton for his draft review series.

He talked about the physical tools, offensive touch

But his main concern was Aytons BBIQ. This is something that can be improved but is a concerning flag. Ayton does not have the greatest feel for the game.

Which really supports what you are saying. These are fixable problems of course but the question is how much?

Which really swings back to the debate of physical tools vs feel for the game. Whats more valuable?

But you gotta factor in that - while the BBIQ hasn't shown up YET, he's still put tremendous production and done it efficiently. If the BBIQ does come around, you have a freak.

Which is a good point. Its possible Ayton just develops that part of his game with experience.

Ayton isnt totally hopeless in that realm either. he can make the right play some times. I need to watch more tape but ive seen him make the right pass just as much as the wrong one. Defensively he recognizes his assignments most of the time but also ball watches and loses his man a ton too.

But honestly passing is not my biggest concern with Ayton. Porzingis enjoys a ton of success while being a pretty poor passer. It his defensive awareness im concerned about. The defensive responsibilities of a center in the NBA are crucial to the success of a team. Its something to keep an eye on throughout the year but its something that can have a huge impact on his celing.

Agreed 100% - his defense is way behind his offense. Hopefully it comes around with coaching, experience, and better attention/focus.

[Duke4life831]

But you gotta factor in that - while the BBIQ hasn't shown up YET, he's still put tremendous production and done it efficiently. If the BBIQ does come around, you have a freak.

Which is a good point. Its possible Ayton just develops that part of his game with experience.

Ayton isnt totally hopeless in that realm either. he can make the right play some times. I need to watch more tape but ive seen him make the right pass just as much as the wrong one. Defensively he recognizes his assignments most of the time but also ball watches and loses his man a ton too.

But honestly passing is not my biggest concern with Ayton. Porzingis enjoys a ton of success while being a pretty poor passer. It his defensive awareness im concerned about. The defensive responsibilities of a center in the NBA are crucial to the success of a team. Its something to keep an eye on throughout the year but its something that can have a huge impact on his celing.

Agreed 100% - his defense is way behind his offense. Hopefully it comes around with coaching, experience, and better attention/focus.

Another factor I think when it comes to his IQ for the game, is how new to the game he is compared to everyone else. A lot of these guys have been playing the game since they were little, Ayton hasnt. I know this is probably just excuse making for him, its just really hard not to hope everything clicks for him because he has all the physical tools you could ever ask for in a big,

[ItsThatEasy]

Which is a good point. Its possible Ayton just develops that part of his game with experience.

Ayton isnt totally hopeless in that realm either. he can make the right play some times. I need to watch more tape but ive seen him make the right pass just as much as the wrong one. Defensively he recognizes his assignments most of the time but also ball watches and loses his man a ton too.

But honestly passing is not my biggest concern with Ayton. Porzingis enjoys a ton of success while being a pretty poor passer. It his defensive awareness im concerned about. The defensive responsibilities of a center in the NBA are crucial to the success of a team. Its something to keep an eye on throughout the year but its something that can have a huge impact on his celing.

Agreed 100% - his defense is way behind his offense. Hopefully it comes around with coaching, experience, and better attention/focus.

Another factor I think when it comes to his IQ for the game, is how new to the game he is compared to everyone else. A lot of these guys have been playing the game since they were little, Ayton hasnt. I know this is probably just excuse making for him, its just really hard not to hope everything clicks for him because he has all the physical tools you could ever ask for in a big,

It's not an excuse, it's a simple fact. His passing ability out of the post is ridiculous for a guy this new to the game. That should be an encouraging sign for everyone who has questions about his BBIQ. He has a lot to learn but clearly he's also capable of picking things up. NBA coaching is going to do wonders for him.

[thr3ep01nte4]

It's not an excuse, it's a simple fact. His passing ability out of the post is ridiculous for a guy this new to the game. That should be an encouraging sign for everyone who has questions about his BBIQ. He has a lot to learn but clearly he's also capable of picking things up. NBA coaching is going to do wonders for him.

How's his feel for the game compared to a Freshman Embiid's? Embiid started playing late too.

[ItsThatEasy]

It's not an excuse, it's a simple fact. His passing ability out of the post is ridiculous for a guy this new to the game. That should be an encouraging sign for everyone who has questions about his BBIQ. He has a lot to learn but clearly he's also capable of picking things up. NBA coaching is going to do wonders for him.

How's his feel for the game compared to a Freshman Embiid's? Embiid started playing late too.

I honestly don't feel it's fair to Ayton to compare the two. And my reasoning for that is because of Embiid's mentality/competitiveness. Even with a fairly new intro to the game Embiid is just naturally a fiery guy which could mask some of his shortcomings. This isn't fair to Ayton because Embiid is almost KG level in terms of competitiveness, there's few guys in the league that could match his intensity. I think Ayton has great intensity and aggressiveness but compared to Embiid nobody looks that great in that area. So feel wise I'm not sure they're that far off, Embiid could just mask deficiencies so much more.

[thr3ep01nte4]

I honestly don't feel it's fair to Ayton to compare the two. And my reasoning for that is because of Embiid's mentality/competitiveness. Even with a fairly new intro to the game Embiid is just naturally a fiery guy which could mask some of his shortcomings. This isn't fair to Ayton because Embiid is almost KG level in terms of competitiveness, there's few guys in the league that could match his intensity. I think Ayton has great intensity and aggressiveness but compared to Embiid nobody looks that great in that area. So feel wise I'm not sure they're that far off, Embiid could just mask deficiencies so much more.

Good analysis. To me, Ayton is more like an in between product of Towns and Embiid. He’s offensive game is more Embiid than Towns, since he’s got great footwork in the post but does not shoot as well as Towns from outside. Defensively, since he has been playing out of position as a PF most of the time, I think he can do better in the NBA as a full time C. He’s also bigger than Towns, which makes it easier for him to affect and deter shots. However, he doesn’t have the intensity and awareness on defense as Embiid.

[ItsThatEasy]

I honestly don't feel it's fair to Ayton to compare the two. And my reasoning for that is because of Embiid's mentality/competitiveness. Even with a fairly new intro to the game Embiid is just naturally a fiery guy which could mask some of his shortcomings. This isn't fair to Ayton because Embiid is almost KG level in terms of competitiveness, there's few guys in the league that could match his intensity. I think Ayton has great intensity and aggressiveness but compared to Embiid nobody looks that great in that area. So feel wise I'm not sure they're that far off, Embiid could just mask deficiencies so much more.

Good analysis. To me, Ayton is more like an in between product of Towns and Embiid. He’s offensive game is more Embiid than Towns, since he’s got great footwork in the post but does not shoot as well as Towns from outside. Defensively, since he has been playing out of position as a PF most of the time, I think he can do better in the NBA as a full time C. He’s also bigger than Towns, which makes it easier for him to affect and deter shots. However, he doesn’t have the intensity and awareness on defense as Embiid.

Pretty much agree. Athletically he's one of a kind to me, in that Greg Oden/Joel Embiid percentile. Even if you look at a picture of LSU Shaq they have similar frames. Skill wise I can see the Towns comp with worse shooting.

[GimmeDat]

For all the what ifs, he remains my #1 guy. I don't think there's many question marks offensively, he's handling doubles/triples with ease, great vision, physically is an absolute stud, jump shot is already solid from the mid-range and has ability to stretch it out further. Will be an elite rebounder as well. As you guys mentioned, defense is behind, but he's not a complete liability on that end and the theoretical upside is there in spades.

Throw in the consideration that he hasn't been playing the game all that long and it's hard to go past him, imo.

[HeadtopChunes]

For all the what ifs, he remains my #1 guy. I don't think there's many question marks offensively, he's handling doubles/triples with ease, great vision, physically is an absolute stud, jump shot is already solid from the mid-range and has ability to stretch it out further. Will be an elite rebounder as well. As you guys mentioned, defense is behind, but he's not a complete liability on that end and the theoretical upside is there in spades.

Throw in the consideration that he hasn't been playing the game all that long and it's hard to go past him, imo.

Im having a tough time deciding who id rank higher between Ayton and Bagley.

Im leaning Ayton for now because his role is much easier project in the NBA

[Marcus]

It's not an excuse, it's a simple fact. His passing ability out of the post is ridiculous for a guy this new to the game. That should be an encouraging sign for everyone who has questions about his BBIQ. He has a lot to learn but clearly he's also capable of picking things up. NBA coaching is going to do wonders for him.

How's his feel for the game compared to a Freshman Embiid's? Embiid started playing late too.

If we're talking at the beginning of the year comparatively I'd say light years since JoJo had no real concept of what he was out there for. DeAndre came in ahead of JoJo in that regard by a pretty wide margin.

If we're talking at this point in the respective seasons the gap is much smaller if not closed. Jojo was still learning but he's a sponge in that regard. those last few months of the season is where that 2 year project tag fell off and legit top 5 pick convo was creeping in.

Both really good passers at this point in their college years, DeAndre is much more patient with the ball than JoJo at this point. JoJo read things on defense better. Think Ayton has a better idea of when to use his post moves than JoJo did but JoJo started gaining confidence by this time so that part was coming along rapidly as well.

So it basically comes down to what point of the season you're referencing.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Even if he doesn't improve his defense or 3 point shot I still have him as an 18-10 player on above average O-Rating.

[AJ3]

Can he become a good rim protector? We see how important having a good rim protector is atm, look at cavs.

[Mulhollanddrive]

At Phoenix he could play with a helpside shot blocker in Bender or Chriss they'd combine for 3-4 blocks a game.

I don't think he can carry the interior defensive load himself however just doesn't have it mentally.

[azcatz11]

Great hands, crazy coordination and mobility for size, good inside outside touch.

Just not sure he has the fluidity+dynamism+skill level to be a high usage offensive center and struggle to see him becoming physical and instinctive enough defensively to make up for that.

Has the natural talent to be a productive big, but I question how much a team with him as the focal point can win.

https://cleaningtheglass.com/midseason-draft-review-deandre-ayton/

Ben Falk wrote an article about Ayton for his draft review series.

He talked about the physical tools, offensive touch

But his main concern was Aytons BBIQ. This is something that can be improved but is a concerning flag. Ayton does not have the greatest feel for the game.

Which really supports what you are saying. These are fixable problems of course but the question is how much?

Which really swings back to the debate of physical tools vs feel for the game. Whats more valuable?

His feel is dramatically better than what it was in the Bahamas tournament. It's not perfect and he's still committing TO's when he's passing out of double and triple teams but it's noticeably better.

It's important to recognize what the Arizona offense is. They struggle to feed him down low. You have a very short PG trying to feed him which is not effective and wings who would rather shoot.

[azcatz11]

Can he become a good rim protector? We see how important having a good rim protector is atm, look at cavs.

No. He won't

[AJ3]

Can he become a good rim protector? We see how important having a good rim protector is atm, look at cavs.

No. He won't

Any explanation?

[azcatz11]

Can he become a good rim protector? We see how important having a good rim protector is atm, look at cavs.

No. He won't

Any explanation?

I honestly have none. He has the tools but he's just not a rim protector. I've heard he has a short wingspan which may play into it. I see him as an average to below average rim protector in the NBA.

[GimmeDat]

No. He won't

Any explanation?

I honestly have none. He has the tools but he's just not a rim protector. I've heard he has a short wingspan which may play into it. I see him as an average to below average rim protector in the NBA.

He's listed with a 7'5 wingspan in 2016, he's more than long enough.

His size and length give him inherent value as a rim protector, the question is whether he lives up to his potential as a rim protector or he remains an underwhelming one.

[Marcus]

No. He won't

Any explanation?

I honestly have none. He has the tools but he's just not a rim protector. I've heard he has a short wingspan which may play into it. I see him as an average to below average rim protector in the NBA.

Its a question of awareness and desire. Physically he can make the plays, mentally he may not see there is a play to be made or have the desire to go out and make one. If you watch him in man defense, post or otherwise he's engaged and can be very good at times. It's seeing things from the safety, last line of defense perspective that has him baffled.