Looking for Unbiased Answer to a Simple Question

[Vickveto]

So a player who averages more stls blks reb assist can’t become a better player then somebody who scores better... okay I’ll agree to disagree time will tell but acting as if some far stretch... smh

Now you didnt vote did you? I mean you wanted an unbiased poll and you voting would be biased right?

It is a far stretch. Very far. But feel free to quote me and bump this thread when Dunn magically becomes a better player than Walker next season and i will create a custom signature for you of whatever you want!

I don’t think this was a unbiased Poll just because you posted in the general

[Kerrsed]

So a player who averages more stls blks reb assist can’t become a better player then somebody who scores better... okay I’ll agree to disagree time will tell but acting as if some far stretch... smh

Now you didnt vote did you? I mean you wanted an unbiased poll and you voting would be biased right?

It is a far stretch. Very far. But feel free to quote me and bump this thread when Dunn magically becomes a better player than Walker next season and i will create a custom signature for you of whatever you want!

I don’t think this was a unbiased Poll just because you posted in the general

Just cant win with you!

[Vickveto]

And you put a poll iand spelled his name wrong smh

[HoopsterJones]

Right now Kemba Walker is better. Kris Dunn is 4 years younger though and only in his second year, thus being the first getting solid minutes.

If Kris Dunn can improve his jumpshot, then yes he can be better than Kemba Walker right now.

Maybe he makes another leap next year and improves, but that’s no guarantee.

As a playmaking PG, on defense, and rebounding Kris Dunn is better than Kemba. Also like his height and length more too.

[Kerrsed]

And you put a poll iand spelled his name wrong smh

Why dont you check you're posts on the Hornets thread where YOU spelled it wrong! Just copying what you posted man! Even if i did it accidentally, its no big deal, not a bulls fan, but when you do it........

[Nuntius]

Its a debate when you have a poster ADMENT that his trade offer for Kemba is well worth it. Im trying to prove a point here.

Why are you, as a Suns fan, even arguing with a Bulls fan about a Hornets player?

To answer your question, though, obviously Kemba. Kris Dunn is a very good young player that is bound to improve but Kemba Walker is an All-Star. Chicago may prefer Dunn over Walker because they're not ready to make a deep run right now and Dunn is still on his rookie contract but that doesn't make him a better player.

Because i was reading the thread on the Hornets board and being a part of the discussion when a crap trade was offered. After informing him that it wasnt close, he continued to re-post the same said offer 4 more times, believing that everyone who disagreed was in the wrong and it was a great offer because Dunn is more valuable than Walker and would be the better player nest season (maybe even this season!). To make him understand how off he was i decided to create this poll as its exactly what he was trying to use, but with nothing to support him.

I get your reasoning. I was mostly poking fun at the absurdity of the situation

[Vickveto]

No because everyone Turing into politicians answer the question.
He averages more stls blks rebounds and has WAY better overall defensive ranking. And Assist

[Kerrsed]

Why are you, as a Suns fan, even arguing with a Bulls fan about a Hornets player?

To answer your question, though, obviously Kemba. Kris Dunn is a very good young player that is bound to improve but Kemba Walker is an All-Star. Chicago may prefer Dunn over Walker because they're not ready to make a deep run right now and Dunn is still on his rookie contract but that doesn't make him a better player.

Because i was reading the thread on the Hornets board and being a part of the discussion when a crap trade was offered. After informing him that it wasnt close, he continued to re-post the same said offer 4 more times, believing that everyone who disagreed was in the wrong and it was a great offer because Dunn is more valuable than Walker and would be the better player nest season (maybe even this season!). To make him understand how off he was i decided to create this poll as its exactly what he was trying to use, but with nothing to support him.

I get your reasoning. I was mostly poking fun at the absurdity of the situation

Thank you. I am glad you posted you're unbiased opinion on the matter!

[azcatz11]

Is this really threadworthy? I mean is it really a debate? Next thread you will see will be: Who is going to be better next year? Jahlil Okafor or Marc Gasol?

It really isn't. One could make a poll every time they disagreed with an outlandish statement from a poster. I'm not seeing the point in answering an obvious question but whatevs!

[TheSuzerain]

Kemba by a very large distance.

He averages more stls blks rebounds and has WAY better overall defensive ranking.
Explain ?

None of that is all that important for a point guard.

Kemba can guide a solid NBA offense. Dunn can't. I haven't seen much to indicate that's going to change.

There are several PGs coming off the bench that I'd rank above Dunn.

[JBautista3]

I voted for Kemba but think Dunn has the potential to reach Kemba's level with a few more years of experience under his belt. If I were the Bulls, I wouldn't trade Dunn (assuming fillers + assets are needed) for Kemba if the offer was presented

[Duffman100]

Kemba. Clearly.

[Vickveto]

Kemba by a very large distance.

He averages more stls blks rebounds and has WAY better overall defensive ranking.
Explain ?

None of that is all that important for a point guard.

Kemba can guide a solid NBA offense. Dunn can't. I haven't seen much to indicate that's going to change.

There are several PGs coming off the bench that I'd rank above Dunn.

I have a feeling I’m debating Walker’s agency sounds absolutely ridiculous rebounds and assists don’t matter if just don’t respond I don’t care if you have a GM next to your name your a idiot. Walker might remain better next year but if stats and analytics doesn’t matter no need to have discussion

[Nuntius]

Dunn is already a great defender. Only needs to develop his offensive game a bit more to surpass Kemba. In the real world, 2-way players are more valuable than good offensive players.

It depends. How good of a defender that two-way player is? Is he an elite defender that can stop the best of the best or is he simply someone that can do a good job at defending his position? The first is definitely very valuable but it's also not very common.

It also depends on how good the offensive player in question is. If the offensive player is absolutely elite at it then the two-way player would have to be an absolutely elite defender to compare.

I think that the best way to illustrate this is Paul George vs James Harden. Paul George is an amazing two-way player. He is an absolutely elite defender that can stop the best of the best. He is actually one of the few players in the league that has consistently limited James Harden. On top of that, he's also a 20+ PPG scorer.

James Harden is a 25+ PPG scorer. This season, he is a 30+ PPG scorer. He is also an amazing playmaker. He was the assist leader last season when he averaged 11.2 APG. He is at 9 APG this season.

Earlier in his career, James Harden was loafing it up defensively. He didn't give a lot of effort and he allowed far too many easy baskets. He also wasn't as good of a playmaker as he is right now. He was still better than George but the margin wasn't huge. People back then could claim that Paul George was better than James Harden. It wasn't a very popular opinion but there was some merit to it especially when they went head-to-head. But now? This argument cannot really be made anymore. And it cannot be made because Harden has become an elite playmaker and he's no longer a defensive liability. He's just average defensively now.

The argument as a whole also depends on the position. It's different if you are a Center. Centers are expected to be good defensively because if they aren't then teams can take advantage of that. You cannot really hide a Center's bad defense unless you have a PF that can do what a Center would normally do (protect the rim). It's much easier to hide a wing defensively than it is to hide a Center.

[TheSuzerain]

your a idiot.

[TheSuzerain]

And Dunn is not a great defender already. That's simply false. He fouls and gambles too much.

His On/Off has the defense as performing exactly the same with him on the floor or off it.

And even if he was, great defense from a guard just isn't that valuable. It's not nothing, but it pales in comparison to great offense from a guard.

[Nuntius]

He averages more stls blks rebounds and has WAY better overall defensive ranking.
Explain ?

None of that is all that important for a point guard.

Kemba can guide a solid NBA offense. Dunn can't. I haven't seen much to indicate that's going to change.

There are several PGs coming off the bench that I'd rank above Dunn.

I have a feeling I’m debating Walker’s agency sounds absolutely ridiculous rebounds and assists don’t matter if just don’t respond I don’t care if you have a GM next to your name your a idiot. Walker might remain better next year but if stats and analytics doesn’t matter no need to have discussion

Rebounding truly doesn't matter for PGs. If anyone is judging PGs based on their rebounding numbers then they should just stop. Most of the rebounds that guards get are uncontested so their value is limited.

Steals and blocks do matter but they aren't always an indication of good defense. Victor Oladipo is averaging 1.9 SPG and 0.9 BPG but I wouldn't call him a good defender. He gambles a lot for my liking.

I do think that Dunn has the potential to be a great defender and I would love to have him on my team but he's not an elite defender yet. He can develop into it in the future, though.

Also, the user that you quoted never said that assists don't matter.

[Kerrsed]

He averages more stls blks rebounds and has WAY better overall defensive ranking.
Explain ?

None of that is all that important for a point guard.

Kemba can guide a solid NBA offense. Dunn can't. I haven't seen much to indicate that's going to change.

There are several PGs coming off the bench that I'd rank above Dunn.

I have a feeling I’m debating Walker’s agency sounds absolutely ridiculous rebounds and assists don’t matter if just don’t respond I don’t care if you have a GM next to your name your a idiot. Walker might remain better next year but if stats and analytics doesn’t matter no need to have discussion

No need to call names man, we are having a friendly discussion here.

As for you're assertion that Dunn has "WAY better overall defensive ranking", lets check the advance stats:

Dunn - DFRTG 106
Walker - DFRTG 109

Yes, Dunn is better, but i wouldnt say WAY better. What i would say is WAY better is Kemba's offensive ranking compared to Dunn.

Walker - OFRTG 114
Dunn - OFRTG 95

YIKES! Now that is a huge difference! But we can also go off of other stats too, what about Win Shares? Walker 4.7 to Dunn's .8 Maybe we break that down a bit more to offense and defense?

DWS: Walker-1.4 / Dunn-1.6
OWS: Walker-3.3 / Dunn- NEGATIVE .7 (-0.7)

BPM: Walker-3.9 / Dunn-0.5
PER: Walker-20.4 / Dunn-15.2

[Nuntius]

And even if he was, great defense from a guard just isn't that valuable. It's not nothing, but it pales in comparison to great offense from a guard.

Eh, not sure I agree with that. Defense at the PG spot is extremely valuable, especially in today's league. There are four kinds of defensive players that teams need to have.

1) A rim protector.

2) A guard that can stop dribble penetration.

3) A versatile defender that can switch at will and create havoc at the PnR.

4) A defensive stopper at the wing spot that limit the league's best players (LeBron, Durant, Kawhi, Giannis etc).

Stopping dribble penetration is vital and championship teams have always had a guy who can do that. This guy doesn't necessarily have to be your PG but it helps when it is.

[Vickveto]

None of that is all that important for a point guard.

Kemba can guide a solid NBA offense. Dunn can't. I haven't seen much to indicate that's going to change.

There are several PGs coming off the bench that I'd rank above Dunn.

I have a feeling I’m debating Walker’s agency sounds absolutely ridiculous rebounds and assists don’t matter if just don’t respond I don’t care if you have a GM next to your name your a idiot. Walker might remain better next year but if stats and analytics doesn’t matter no need to have discussion

No need to call names man, we are having a friendly discussion here.

As for you're assertion that Dunn has "WAY better overall defensive ranking", lets check the advance stats:

Dunn - DFRTG 106
Walker - DFRTG 109

Yes, Dunn is better, but i wouldnt say WAY better. What i would say is WAY better is Kemba's offensive ranking compared to Dunn.

Walker - OFRTG 114
Dunn - OFRTG 95

YIKES! Now that is a huge difference! But we can also go off of other stats too, what about Win Shares? Walker 4.7 to Dunn's .8 Maybe we break that down a bit more to offense and defense?

DWS: Walker-1.4 / Dunn-1.6
OWS: Walker-3.3 / Dunn- NEGATIVE .7 (-0.7)

BPM: Walker-3.9 / Dunn-0.5
PER: Walker-20.4 / Dunn-15.2