Team Canada Basketball Thread

[UcanUwill]

Pangos has 10 assists at the half in Euroleague game. Insane, considering 10 minute quarters and more conservative assisting rules. Starting to beleive he really is one of the best Canadian players, and thats including NBA guys who look good as well.

[mojo13]

Chris Boucher with his first game back after 10 months of recovery.
He showed off his unique ability posting 11 points (4-6), 1 three, (1-2) and couple rebounds and 3 blocks in 15 minutes of action.

Jordan Bell went down badly last night for the Warriors and after some recovery time in the G this could open the door for Boucher with the some time with the Warriors.

Strong debut, especially after such a long layoff.

Re: Phil's injury.... maybe this forces us to drag Naz Long into the Team Canada system effectively locking him in. Who else is out there? Maybe Aaron Best? Mulder doesnt seem to be doing much with the Windy City Bulls. Andy Rautins would actually be a solid add.

Long or Rautins to fill in for Scrubb for be great, but both might be alienated from the program.

Maybe Notice or Peter-McNeilly as other candidates?
Other options? Where is Justin Edwards playing this season? Is Cadougan still injured or back in the NBL?

Justin Edwards is in South Korea - he was "purchased" from an Italian top division club mid season after a strong start. He is playing solid in Korea and could be available. I think Cadougan is still hurt, but not sure - he doesnt really move my needle, but could be a decent, boring PG backup if healthy.
Duance Notice was with a club in the Polish top division. His stats were unimpressive and doesn't seem to be playing lately. He could be hurt, or has been cut. He doesn't get me too excited and never understood the excitement with him. He can't shoot - 3 for 27 from three for the season. Only played 7 of 18 games for the Polish club. Peter-McNeilly seems to be playing at a much higher level. Solid play in a way, way better league (BBL).
Notice: http://basketball.eurobasket.com/team/Poland/BM-Slam-Stal-Ostrow-Wlkp/152?Page=3

Hah...Diressa just dropped 50 points in a Ryerson win over York yesterday.

[slothrop8]

Chris Boucher with his first game back after 10 months of recovery.
He showed off his unique ability posting 11 points (4-6), 1 three, (1-2) and couple rebounds and 3 blocks in 15 minutes of action.

Jordan Bell went down badly last night for the Warriors and after some recovery time in the G this could open the door for Boucher with the some time with the Warriors.

Strong debut, especially after such a long layoff.

Re: Phil's injury.... maybe this forces us to drag Naz Long into the Team Canada system effectively locking him in. Who else is out there? Maybe Aaron Best? Mulder doesnt seem to be doing much with the Windy City Bulls. Andy Rautins would actually be a solid add.

Long or Rautins to fill in for Scrubb for be great, but both might be alienated from the program.

Maybe Notice or Peter-McNeilly as other candidates?
Other options? Where is Justin Edwards playing this season? Is Cadougan still injured or back in the NBL?

Cadougan played his first game of the season in the NBL last night. I'm actually going to see him play in person tomorrow - I'll let everyone know how he looks. I've always been rather unimpressed with his game to be honest - I have to think we can come up with a better option, but he frequently pops up with the SMNT and you'd have to assume he's going to be considered if we have a need for PG depth.

[Hair Canada]

Pangos has 10 assists at the half in Euroleague game. Insane, considering 10 minute quarters and more conservative assisting rules. Starting to beleive he really is one of the best Canadian players, and thats including NBA guys who look good as well.

On the one hand, it's true. On the other, they moved into a system where they count made three-throws (or even one made three throw) after a pass as an assist. Check the PBP and you'll see. Not that I'm necessarily against it (I actually think it makes pretty good sense in this day of advanced stats), but it's an inconsistency.

[Hair Canada]

Chris Boucher with his first game back after 10 months of recovery.
He showed off his unique ability posting 11 points (4-6), 1 three, (1-2) and couple rebounds and 3 blocks in 15 minutes of action.

Jordan Bell went down badly last night for the Warriors and after some recovery time in the G this could open the door for Boucher with the some time with the Warriors.

Strong debut, especially after such a long layoff.

Re: Phil's injury.... maybe this forces us to drag Naz Long into the Team Canada system effectively locking him in. Who else is out there? Maybe Aaron Best? Mulder doesnt seem to be doing much with the Windy City Bulls. Andy Rautins would actually be a solid add.

Long or Rautins to fill in for Scrubb for be great, but both might be alienated from the program.

Maybe Notice or Peter-McNeilly as other candidates?
Other options? Where is Justin Edwards playing this season? Is Cadougan still injured or back in the NBL?

Cadougan played his first game of the season in the NBL last night. I'm actually going to see him play in person tomorrow - I'll let everyone know how he looks. I've always been rather unimpressed with his game to be honest - I have to think we can come up with a better option, but he frequently pops up with the SMNT and you'd have to assume he's going to be considered if we have a need for PG depth.

I'll ask again: why not give a chance to some of the young guys as well? If it was up to me, both RJ Barrett and SGA would be playing for Team Canada next month. Not as starters, but getting some minutes from the bench, experience, and, not less important, commitment and continuity. If Slovenia can do it, why can't we?

[mojo13]

Strong debut, especially after such a long layoff.




Long or Rautins to fill in for Scrubb for be great, but both might be alienated from the program.

Maybe Notice or Peter-McNeilly as other candidates?
Other options? Where is Justin Edwards playing this season? Is Cadougan still injured or back in the NBL?

Cadougan played his first game of the season in the NBL last night. I'm actually going to see him play in person tomorrow - I'll let everyone know how he looks. I've always been rather unimpressed with his game to be honest - I have to think we can come up with a better option, but he frequently pops up with the SMNT and you'd have to assume he's going to be considered if we have a need for PG depth.

I'll ask again: why not give a chance to some of the young guys as well? If it was up to me, both RJ Barrett and SGA would be playing for Team Canada next month. Not as starters, but getting some minutes from the bench, experience, and, not less important, commitment and continuity. If Slovenia can do it, why can't we?

Ask Basketball Canada, not us. I'm down with RJ on this team, but I suspect they don't want to be pulled out of their teams midseason either. UK sure wouldn't want to release Shai mid-season. RJ being in high-school is different, but I'd be a little concerned of the injury risk playing grown men in FIBA (a notoriously rougher game). They put Shai on the Manila Olympic qualification team....

[mojo13]

Pangos' game highlights:

Watch on YouTube

[Stromile12]

Khem Birch highlight's reminded me of this thread. Thank's for all the updates on the player's, I look forward to seeing Canada compete, the talent is only getting better.

[UcanUwill]

Pangos has 10 assists at the half in Euroleague game. Insane, considering 10 minute quarters and more conservative assisting rules. Starting to beleive he really is one of the best Canadian players, and thats including NBA guys who look good as well.

On the one hand, it's true. On the other, they moved into a system where they count made three-throws (or even one made three throw) after a pass as an assist. Check the PBP and you'll see. Not that I'm necessarily against it (I actually think it makes pretty good sense in this day of advanced stats), but it's an inconsistency.

True, it is no so hard to get assists under FIBA rules nowadays. Personally I love that rule, it just makes sense. But when you look at NBA scorekeepers sometimes and what they count as assists, its still way more inflated in the NBA. Pangos finished with 15 assists by the way, turning into legit playmaker, and its amazing how confident he is with his dribble, he is slashing constantly, his confidence is through the roof right now, he is definitely one of the biggest steals in Euroleague this season. If not the NBA, he will have a long career playing for European powerhouses I think.

[Mattd97]

Pangos has 10 assists at the half in Euroleague game. Insane, considering 10 minute quarters and more conservative assisting rules. Starting to beleive he really is one of the best Canadian players, and thats including NBA guys who look good as well.

On the one hand, it's true. On the other, they moved into a system where they count made three-throws (or even one made three throw) after a pass as an assist. Check the PBP and you'll see. Not that I'm necessarily against it (I actually think it makes pretty good sense in this day of advanced stats), but it's an inconsistency.

hang on hang on hang on --- you know its FREE throw right?

[Mirotic12]

Pangos has 10 assists at the half in Euroleague game. Insane, considering 10 minute quarters and more conservative assisting rules. Starting to beleive he really is one of the best Canadian players, and thats including NBA guys who look good as well.

On the one hand, it's true. On the other, they moved into a system where they count made three-throws (or even one made three throw) after a pass as an assist. Check the PBP and you'll see. Not that I'm necessarily against it (I actually think it makes pretty good sense in this day of advanced stats), but it's an inconsistency.

The difference is still huge though. In NBA, you pass the ball and no one else touches it other than the player you passed it to, and then that player you passed it to scores....you get an assist. That's it. I see sometimes in an NBA game like 5 seconds or something time elapse between the pass and the score, and they still award an assist....or someone passes the ball, the player getting it literally makes about 4-5 offensive moves, and THEN shoots....still credited as an assist, etc.

In EuroLeague, unless the ball goes in within 1.9 seconds of the pass, there is no assist. So an enormous difference.

The key thing is more to look at what kind of assists they are. Pangos does some good play making and he is pretty good at drive and kick outs. However, I think his assist numbers are generally quite inflated by the system and team he plays on.

I can see him at like 2-3 assists at most if he was in a team like Efes or Barca, just as a comparison. Zalgiris runs a lot of pick and pop type basketball, and they have some excellent shooters, and especially they have guys that are very efficient at making jumpers off the pick and pop (Jankunas) and drive and kick game (Milaknis). And also have some guys that are very good at finishing lobs and around the basket and finishing off drives to the lane from the guard also. White is a guy that can finish a lot of those plays around the rim, if the ball is just in his general area.

So Pangos gets helped a lot by the system and makeup of the team, with the assists. It's not like Teodosic getting 6 assists, where he was mainly creating the plays. So while Pangos is quite good at getting some assists in certain ways, it's not like he's a great play maker really. He's more like a setup guy.

[Hair Canada]

Pangos has 10 assists at the half in Euroleague game. Insane, considering 10 minute quarters and more conservative assisting rules. Starting to beleive he really is one of the best Canadian players, and thats including NBA guys who look good as well.

On the one hand, it's true. On the other, they moved into a system where they count made three-throws (or even one made three throw) after a pass as an assist. Check the PBP and you'll see. Not that I'm necessarily against it (I actually think it makes pretty good sense in this day of advanced stats), but it's an inconsistency.

The difference is still huge though. In NBA, you pass the ball and no one else touches it other than the player you passed it to, and then that player you passed it to scores....you get an assist. That's it. I see sometimes in an NBA game like 5 seconds or something time elapse between the pass and the score, and they still award an assist....or someone passes the ball, the player getting it literally makes about 4-5 offensive moves, and THEN shoots....still credited as an assist, etc.

In EuroLeague, unless the ball goes in within 1.9 seconds of the pass, there is no assist. So an enormous difference.

The key thing is more to look at what kind of assists they are. Pangos does some good play making and he is pretty good at drive and kick outs. However, I think his assist numbers are generally quite inflated by the system and team he plays on.

I can see him at like 2-3 assists at most if he was in a team like Efes or Barca, just as a comparison. Zalgiris runs a lot of pick and pop type basketball, and they have some excellent shooters, and especially they have guys that are very efficient at making jumpers off the pick and pop (Jankunas) and drive and kick game (Milaknis). And also have some guys that are very good at finishing lobs and around the basket and finishing off drives to the lane from the guard also. White is a guy that can finish a lot of those plays around the rim, if the ball is just in his general area.

So Pangos gets helped a lot by the system and makeup of the team, with the assists. It's not like Teodosic getting 6 assists, where he was mainly creating the plays. So while Pangos is quite good at getting some assists in certain ways, it's not like he's a great play maker really. He's more like a setup guy.

Thanks for sharing the video, Mojo. Pangos really looks great.

Mirotic, these are fair points (especially the one about how assists are counted in the NBA, which kind of defeats the purpose and is quite annoying). Still, I'm starting to think that maybe Pangos IS one of the top PGs in the Euroleague, right behind Calathes, Rodriguez and Heurtel, and on par with players like Sloukas and Rochestie (who is a very good comparison I think). It's true that he profits from the system, but he's also one of the main reasons that the system is successful. Not just the assists, but also the great shooting and generally the unselfish play.

[TheFutureMM]

These are probably the most exciting highlights I've ever seen from a Canadian Basketball player. This kid has so much bounce it's insane.

Watch on YouTube

[TooBad]

These are probably the most exciting highlights I've ever seen from a Canadian Basketball player. This kid has so much bounce it's insane.

Watch on YouTube

Yea he was ridiculous. it was disappointing that he didn't go for 40 though because he had 28 or something with like 5 min in the 3rd left. Dillon brooks has been playing really well lately (leading all rookies in 3pt%). He had a career high tonight and its the third game in a row where he has scored 17 plus.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[TheFutureMM]

These are probably the most exciting highlights I've ever seen from a Canadian Basketball player. This kid has so much bounce it's insane.

Watch on YouTube

Yea he was ridiculous. it was disappointing that he didn't go for 40 though because he had 28 or something with like 5 min in the 3rd left. Dillon brooks has been playing really well lately (leading all rookies in 3pt%). He had a career high tonight and its the third game in a row where he has scored 17 plus.

So what's the concensus in Memphis on Dillon Brooks? Can he be a permanent 2 at the NBA level or is he more of a 3? His 3P% looks solid and he's bullying his way to the rim against wing defenders. If he has the lateral quickness to stay in front of SGs then I think that really helps to compensate for his size limitations against the biggers wings.

[TooBad]

These are probably the most exciting highlights I've ever seen from a Canadian Basketball player. This kid has so much bounce it's insane.

Watch on YouTube

Yea he was ridiculous. it was disappointing that he didn't go for 40 though because he had 28 or something with like 5 min in the 3rd left. Dillon brooks has been playing really well lately (leading all rookies in 3pt%). He had a career high tonight and its the third game in a row where he has scored 17 plus.

So what's the concensus in Memphis on Dillon Brooks? Can he be a permanent 2 at the NBA level or is he more of a 3? His 3P% looks solid and he's bullying his way to the rim against wing defenders. If he has the lateral quickness to stay in front of SGs then I think that really helps to compensate for his size limitations against the biggers wings.

I think he's definitely a SF despite being shorter than average. He's got the strength/weight/skill set to play the position. He can guard 1-3 and has the ability to guard bigs too but you won't see it too often (I posted a video of him guarding Towns awhile back). Its a shame that they didn't include him in the offense as much earlier in the season because I think he'd be in the ROY conversation if they had (probably a way better record too). The biggest knock on him right now is his nickname "dilly dilly" lol (that has to be the worst in the league).

[aminiaturebuddha]

I had been wondering why NAW's stats had fallen off a cliff lately, and I finally got a chance to see a bunch of a Virginia Tech game today. A few observations:

It seems that Virginia Tech really doesn't feature NAW much at all in their offence. He can take a shot if he has it, but most of their offence seems to be geared towards getting shots for Blackshear or Hill (even though Robinson and Bibbs took the most shots in this game). I'm not sure what happened in those games at the beginning of the year, but it doesn't seem like he plays in a system where he's going to get a ton of shots, like Wigginton does at Iowa State, for example.

At the same time, when he does have opportunities, he isn't very aggressive looking for his offence either. I think Hair Canada mentioned that this was a trend he had observed with him in high school. I hope this isn't an uncorrectable timidity, and that maybe he's just deferring to the seniors and juniors on the team right now. In this particular game, he had a bad shooting day, with a couple of 3s that rattled in and out, so maybe part of it way him trying to find the hot hand today.

Either way, based upon what I saw, and the way his stats have been trending, I'm not sure that we should expect him to declare for the NBA draft until after his junior season. Most of the other top guys on Virginia Tech are seniors and juniors, so NAW might need at least one year clearly being "the man" on the team for his offence to flourish and get enough hype to go to the NBA. He shows enough skills that he seems like he'll have the talent to get there eventually. He just needs to work on his aggressiveness.

[Mirotic12]

Mirotic, these are fair points (especially the one about how assists are counted in the NBA, which kind of defeats the purpose and is quite annoying). Still, I'm starting to think that maybe Pangos IS one of the top PGs in the Euroleague, right behind Calathes, Rodriguez and Heurtel, and on par with players like Sloukas and Rochestie (who is a very good comparison I think). It's true that he profits from the system, but he's also one of the main reasons that the system is successful. Not just the assists, but also the great shooting and generally the unselfish play.

Among those players you mention, Pangos is better than Calathes. Calathes is the most overrated player in Europe.

Rochestie, and especially Sloukas, are also quite overrated players. They are certainly very good players, but when we talk about 4-5 best guards in Europe, neither of them has any business being in that conversation. Are they better than Pangos? Hard to tell. Rochestie has never been good in a good team, but he's a more skilled offensive player than Pangos is. Sloukas only played in big teams, so he might be better than Pangos.

The actual best lead guards in EuroLeague though are guys like Hackett, Llull, Rodriguez, Huertel (although he's also overrated), Spanoulis, Shved (usually a 2/3, but he is a 1 this season), Wannamaker (he's more of a SG IMO, but he plays point guard)....

So I have 6 as definitely better than Pangos.

Then I would probably go with guys like Pangos, McCollum, Calathes, Strelnieks, maybe Pierre Jackson (although he does not do much but score), Jayson Granger, Jordan Theodore in a next tier. Then maybe guys like Nikos Zisis, Mantas Kalnietis, Stefan Markovic, Sam Van Rossum, Campazzo, Bobby Dixon (AKA Ali) after that.

De Colo mainly plays as a 2/3. Doncic also mainly plays as a 2/3. But if we count De Colo and Doncic as point guards, since they also play some at that spot, and obviously can do so, then they are both better than Pangos too.

Also consider that Pangos is really more effective to me off the ball, coming off screens, than he is on the ball. I think he would be better if they focused on using him more that way. But anyway.......so,

Current EuroLeague lead guards better than Pangos, not in any order,

Hackett
Rodriguez
Huertel
Llull
Spanoulis
Shved
Wannamaker
Doncic
De Colo

I think I would also go with these players over Pangos, but it's debatable.

Granger
Sloukas
Rochestie
McCollum

So, I guess that puts Pangos somewhere around 14. 14 is really quite good though, because lead guard is always one of the by far best and deepest positions in EuroLeague. I have him as better than guys like Calathes and Strelnieks, so 14 is pretty good, and remember there are only 16 teams in the whole league.

Toney Douglas hasn't played enough games for me to rank him yet. Same with Beno Udrih, although he looks the same case as Marcelo Huertas so far. Coming from NBA, but totally washed up.

NBA listed guys like Norris Cole, Rodrigue Beaubois, Juan Carlos Navarro, Nemanja Nedovic, Erick Green, and Drew Goudelock as point guards, but they are only ever used as shooting guards in EuroLeague, so I won't rank them here.

In summary, I don't think Pangos is a top 4-5 lead guard in EuroLeague, but I do think he's a very good player, and could move to a bigger EuroLeague team than Zalgiris.

[TheFutureMM]

Sigh... I guess I'll post it because everything in this thread is typically very negative in regards to him. Andrew Wiggins went for 29 and ruined my Saturday night. Two massive dunks on Poeltl.

Watch on YouTube

[aminiaturebuddha]

Sigh... I guess I'll post it because everything in this thread is typically very negative in regards to him. Andrew Wiggins went for 29 and ruined my Saturday night. Two massive dunks on Poeltl.

Watch on YouTube

Wiggins has obviously had a down year, particularly with his shooting percentages, but there's also no question that the arrival of Butler (and to a lesser extent Teague) has reduced his scoring opportunities. His shot attempts are down from 19.1 a game to 15.6 a game, with a corresponding drop in free throw attempts.

But games like this without Butler, where he's forced to be a more aggressive scorer, show that the talent is still definitely there. I only hope that he learns a few things about hard work (and defence) from Butler so that when his opportunity comes again to be the lead scorer on a team, either with the Wolves or some other team, he'll be a more efficient and better player.