Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5

[Saberestar]

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Who's that guy on the left? Dick Van Arsdale?

I think so.

[darealjuice]

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I'm curious what Bucks fans think of him so far

I don't know. It's probably kind of split. It's also amazing how much worse their defense is with Giannis out:

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Not too surprising though, they don't have anyone to back him up that comes closing to replicating his impact on offense and defense.

Just read the Bucks game thread for tonight's game, seems like they all want to lose to us so they can hit rock bottom and fire Kidd

[bwgood77]

I'm curious what Bucks fans think of him so far

I don't know. It's probably kind of split. It's also amazing how much worse their defense is with Giannis out:

Read on Twitter

Not too surprising though, they don't have anyone to back him up that comes closing to replicating his impact on offense and defense.

Just read the Bucks game thread for tonight's game, seems like they all want to lose to us so they can hit rock bottom and fire Kidd

I know. I just read it. There is a thread about the Bucks on the General Board about why the Bucks are playing so poorly and there are a bunch of Kidd memes and gifs..

This is a good one...

[WeekapaugGroove]

Monroe is a great passer. He fits well for inside out offenses that don't have a good driving PG. Unfortunately, I think most teams like that have already a good C (Denver, Knicks, Lakers, Jazz)

He's a good passer but these days bigs without great D and are slow just doesn't get PT. Same reason why despite being the Warriors best big man defender, Bogut went from 27mpg in the playoffs, to 23mpg the following year and then to 16mpg in his final season with the Warriors. He didn't even play the last two playoff games in the Finals. Teams these days are looking for the Capelas, guys who are great PnR guys, who can play defense and just cover big areas on D. Offense is almost optional.

If one of these types of players aren't available, they rather play small with a natural 4 at the C. This is why even though Bender can't really bang in the middle, he still has value

Because there is no banging in the middle. The game is softer than little kids ays. Bender wouldn't have been drafted 20 years ago. Now he's a viable talent. Is what it is. Wish they'd put someoff the physicality back into the game.

That's also why 18ppg is nothing for a wing or pg now. No big punishing you inside, blocking shots, deterring, etc. Also no bigs scoring, so more for the guards (also the pace is much faster because of the rules and subsequent team roster strategies, so more scoring anyway). And you can't get near them, so 3s are easy now as well. Hell you don't even need a traditional kobe jump shot, you can just have a little hop shot like Curry n score 30. Games a joke.

Anyway, yeah, Monroe has nearly zero trade value.

Not to get too off topic but I see this negative option on todays game by some former players, fans, and media and have some takes on this.

The rough and tumble era of the 90's with these low scoring physical games is kind of an anomaly in basketball history. From the ABA days through the showtime lakers basketball was mostly a fast high scoring game. Heck they played less defense then than they do now.

Why was it this way? A number of factors came into play.

Teams like the Knicks figured out they could muck it up and win so others copied it. Teams pushed the limits of what they were allowed to do hand-checking on the perimeter (something that would have been a foul back in the day).

This was also just a great age for skilled 7 footers; people sometime lose sight of just how rare it is for a human being to be 7 foot tall, thick and coordinated. This rarity cause some peaks and valleys in the pool of these guys that era had some great ones like Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, Mutombo, Shaq, Duncan. These guys would still dominate today. Just a little bad luck has probably contributed to the decline in this era. Say Odom stays healthy and Howard learned to develop a post game and hell even Boogie probably hasn't reached his ceiling because of his attitude issues. I do think we could see another wave of these guys at some point, maybe Ayton will be the start of it. Bottom line because of the scarcity of humans with these traits there won't always be a consistent talent pool.

On the flip side there is a much bigger and consistent talent pool of guys 6'8 and shorter. Especially now with the game being more global and just general population growth there a huge pool of these guys. That pool in the late 80's and 90's got hurt a bit by guys like Reggie Lewis, Benji Wilson, Len Bias, and Hank Gathers all passing away and others in that era never reaching their potential because of the cocaine problems of that era. Those guys might have infused the game with ultra talented multi dimensional players.

The league changing the hand checking rule has had an impact but I think it was the right call because the game was becoming less entertaining.

Two big changes we do see are that teams figured out that hitting 33% of 3's is just as good as hitting 50% from 2 so they shoot more of them. The other thing is teams play more small ball than ever. They do this because they want to put their best players on the floor there just aren't enough big men skilled enough to punish them for doing it. The mediocre unskilled big man is becoming obsolete.

[King4Day]

OK I know there's no chance the Spurs deal him, but for the sake of argument, what would it take from our roster to land Leonard?

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22179536/kawhi-leonard-relationship-san-antonio-spurs-becoming-strained

I would be willing to deal anyone except Booker.

[BobbieL]

WojBomb

Kidd Out in Milwaukee.

Suns play there tonight - will have to watch the pregame. Do they call Fizdale

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[ImNotMcDiSwear]

WojBomb

Kidd Out in Milwaukee.

Suns play there tonight - will have to watch the pregame. Do they call Fizdale

Read on Twitter

How ever will he get back to the airport? Everyone knows there's only one horse in this town...

Edit: NM, away game. Would have been more poetic were he stranded in Phoenix.

[Saberestar]

WojBomb

Kidd Out in Milwaukee.

Suns play there tonight - will have to watch the pregame. Do they call Fizdale

Read on Twitter

Wowwww...just before the game. They could have waited until the All-Star break.

[bigfoot]

WojBomb

Kidd Out in Milwaukee.

Suns play there tonight - will have to watch the pregame. Do they call Fizdale

Read on Twitter

Wowwww...just before the game. They could have waited until the All-Star break.

Probably another run-in with the law

[BobbieL]

WojBomb

Kidd Out in Milwaukee.

Suns play there tonight - will have to watch the pregame. Do they call Fizdale

Read on Twitter

Wowwww...just before the game. They could have waited until the All-Star break.

The Bucks are now 8th

they have the window of 11-16 that goes to the Suns. Maybe the GM sees that and needs to turn it around

Tonight would be an excellent game for the Suns to win if they want that draft pick

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

[BobbieL]

Read on Twitter

Memphis
Milwaukee
Phoenix

Current jobs with interim coaches

Yes, for now, Milwaukee is the most attractive for sure. See if Ryan came make the Suns job closer to be more attractive

[kennydorglas]

I wonder if they'll hire Fizdale right away

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

Memphis
Milwaukee
Phoenix

Current jobs with interim coaches

Yes, for now, Milwaukee is the most attractive for sure. See if Ryan came make the Suns job closer to be more attractive

Unless the coach likes nice weather.

[bwgood77]

I wonder if they'll hire Fizdale right away

They've already named one of the assistants interim.

[hollywood6964]

He's a good passer but these days bigs without great D and are slow just doesn't get PT. Same reason why despite being the Warriors best big man defender, Bogut went from 27mpg in the playoffs, to 23mpg the following year and then to 16mpg in his final season with the Warriors. He didn't even play the last two playoff games in the Finals. Teams these days are looking for the Capelas, guys who are great PnR guys, who can play defense and just cover big areas on D. Offense is almost optional.

If one of these types of players aren't available, they rather play small with a natural 4 at the C. This is why even though Bender can't really bang in the middle, he still has value

Because there is no banging in the middle. The game is softer than little kids ays. Bender wouldn't have been drafted 20 years ago. Now he's a viable talent. Is what it is. Wish they'd put someoff the physicality back into the game.

That's also why 18ppg is nothing for a wing or pg now. No big punishing you inside, blocking shots, deterring, etc. Also no bigs scoring, so more for the guards (also the pace is much faster because of the rules and subsequent team roster strategies, so more scoring anyway). And you can't get near them, so 3s are easy now as well. Hell you don't even need a traditional kobe jump shot, you can just have a little hop shot like Curry n score 30. Games a joke.

Anyway, yeah, Monroe has nearly zero trade value.

Not to get too off topic but I see this negative option on todays game by some former players, fans, and media and have some takes on this.

The rough and tumble era of the 90's with these low scoring physical games is kind of an anomaly in basketball history. From the ABA days through the showtime lakers basketball was mostly a fast high scoring game. Heck they played less defense then than they do now.

Why was it this way? A number of factors came into play.

Teams like the Knicks figured out they could muck it up and win so others copied it. Teams pushed the limits of what they were allowed to do hand-checking on the perimeter (something that would have been a foul back in the day).

This was also just a great age for skilled 7 footers; people sometime lose sight of just how rare it is for a human being to be 7 foot tall, thick and coordinated. This rarity cause some peaks and valleys in the pool of these guys that era had some great ones like Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, Mutombo, Shaq, Duncan. These guys would still dominate today. Just a little bad luck has probably contributed to the decline in this era. Say Odom stays healthy and Howard learned to develop a post game and hell even Boogie probably hasn't reached his ceiling because of his attitude issues. I do think we could see another wave of these guys at some point, maybe Ayton will be the start of it. Bottom line because of the scarcity of humans with these traits there won't always be a consistent talent pool.

On the flip side there is a much bigger and consistent talent pool of guys 6'8 and shorter. Especially now with the game being more global and just general population growth there a huge pool of these guys. That pool in the late 80's and 90's got hurt a bit by guys like Reggie Lewis, Benji Wilson, Len Bias, and Hank Gathers all passing away and others in that era never reaching their potential because of the cocaine problems of that era. Those guys might have infused the game with ultra talented multi dimensional players.

The league changing the hand checking rule has had an impact but I think it was the right call because the game was becoming less entertaining.

Two big changes we do see are that teams figured out that hitting 33% of 3's is just as good as hitting 50% from 2 so they shoot more of them. The other thing is teams play more small ball than ever. They do this because they want to put their best players on the floor there just aren't enough big men skilled enough to punish them for doing it. The mediocre unskilled big man is becoming obsolete.

I personally don't agree.

80s had just as much physicality, if not more.
Also, the basic arithmetic of 3s vs 2s could not have been lost on people prior to 2005.
Further, it's just not the hand check rule, it started before that. But even if you started right at that point, the game wasn't called nearly as tight as it is now when they first changed the rule. It took a long time of turning that screw to get to this point.
Another thing, illegal defense helped big men, zone does not, especially coupled with hand check rule....and even moreso with the game being called so damned tight.

There more, but that's enough coupled with my last post. I stand by it. It's a play preference, what it comes down to, I suppose, n I just prefer past eras, by far.

[jcsunsfan]

WojBomb

Kidd Out in Milwaukee.

Suns play there tonight - will have to watch the pregame. Do they call Fizdale

Read on Twitter

Wowwww...just before the game. They could have waited until the All-Star break.

The Bucks are now 8th

they have the window of 11-16 that goes to the Suns. Maybe the GM sees that and needs to turn it around

Tonight would be an excellent game for the Suns to win if they want that draft pick

They either need to win their way out of the window or tank their way through it.

[jcsunsfan]

I wonder if they'll hire Fizdale right away

They've already named one of the assistants interim.

Not happy. Kidd was our best hope for getting that pick.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Because there is no banging in the middle. The game is softer than little kids ays. Bender wouldn't have been drafted 20 years ago. Now he's a viable talent. Is what it is. Wish they'd put someoff the physicality back into the game.

That's also why 18ppg is nothing for a wing or pg now. No big punishing you inside, blocking shots, deterring, etc. Also no bigs scoring, so more for the guards (also the pace is much faster because of the rules and subsequent team roster strategies, so more scoring anyway). And you can't get near them, so 3s are easy now as well. Hell you don't even need a traditional kobe jump shot, you can just have a little hop shot like Curry n score 30. Games a joke.

Anyway, yeah, Monroe has nearly zero trade value.

Not to get too off topic but I see this negative option on todays game by some former players, fans, and media and have some takes on this.

The rough and tumble era of the 90's with these low scoring physical games is kind of an anomaly in basketball history. From the ABA days through the showtime lakers basketball was mostly a fast high scoring game. Heck they played less defense then than they do now.

Why was it this way? A number of factors came into play.

Teams like the Knicks figured out they could muck it up and win so others copied it. Teams pushed the limits of what they were allowed to do hand-checking on the perimeter (something that would have been a foul back in the day).

This was also just a great age for skilled 7 footers; people sometime lose sight of just how rare it is for a human being to be 7 foot tall, thick and coordinated. This rarity cause some peaks and valleys in the pool of these guys that era had some great ones like Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, Mutombo, Shaq, Duncan. These guys would still dominate today. Just a little bad luck has probably contributed to the decline in this era. Say Odom stays healthy and Howard learned to develop a post game and hell even Boogie probably hasn't reached his ceiling because of his attitude issues. I do think we could see another wave of these guys at some point, maybe Ayton will be the start of it. Bottom line because of the scarcity of humans with these traits there won't always be a consistent talent pool.

On the flip side there is a much bigger and consistent talent pool of guys 6'8 and shorter. Especially now with the game being more global and just general population growth there a huge pool of these guys. That pool in the late 80's and 90's got hurt a bit by guys like Reggie Lewis, Benji Wilson, Len Bias, and Hank Gathers all passing away and others in that era never reaching their potential because of the cocaine problems of that era. Those guys might have infused the game with ultra talented multi dimensional players.

The league changing the hand checking rule has had an impact but I think it was the right call because the game was becoming less entertaining.

Two big changes we do see are that teams figured out that hitting 33% of 3's is just as good as hitting 50% from 2 so they shoot more of them. The other thing is teams play more small ball than ever. They do this because they want to put their best players on the floor there just aren't enough big men skilled enough to punish them for doing it. The mediocre unskilled big man is becoming obsolete.

I personally don't agree.

80s had just as much physicality, if not more.
Also, the basic arithmetic of 3s vs 2s could not have been lost on people prior to 2005.
Further, it's just not the hand check rule, it started before that. But even if you started right at that point, the game wasn't called nearly as tight as it is now when they first changed the rule. It took a long time of turning that screw to get to this point.
Another thing, illegal defense helped big men, zone does not, especially coupled with hand check rule....and even moreso with the game being called so damned tight.

There more, but that's enough coupled with my last post. I stand by it. It's a play preference, what it comes down to, I suppose, n I just prefer past eras, by far.

Everyone remembers those 92-95 Suns teams fondly, but few recollect just how boring it was to watch the Suns in 95-96. Barkley holding the ball for 10 seconds, backing down, backing down, forcing the contact and drawing the foul. Spent half the game at the line.

If those were the good ol' days, you can keep 'em.

[bwgood77]

I wonder if they'll hire Fizdale right away

They've already named one of the assistants interim.

Not happy. Kidd was our best hope for getting that pick.

Well with Giannis sitting, they will have a hard time winning games. I don't know if they are really better than any of the 7 teams above them, and the Pistons are right behind them. They could barely miss the playoffs and it could end up being like the 13th or 14th pick.