KIDD FIRED - Hughes/Grgurich also fired - Vin Baker Hired

[emunney]

Bruh Thon is Black Frasier now

[Frank Nova]

If the Bucks come out Friday vs BKN stagnant and flat footed on offense I'll have my concerns about Prunty. He will now have ample time to prepare for this game and get into his own coaching groove. If things barely change I'll assume it's safe to say it wasn't just all on Kidd but the coaching staff as a whole. I want to see constant movement, screens, ball rotation etc. all that leads to open shots and easier shots at the rim. Everything under Kidd just looked too difficult at times. It seemed like it was way to easy for the defense to force us into working extra hard to get a half decent look at the rim. I don't want to see that anymore, I'm a firm believer that stuff like that falls primarily on the coach/staff. Get creative and maximize the talent for GD sake. If Prunty is incapable of doing that, well then give someone else a shot....

I'm more concerned about the offense truthfully, the defense just needs to stay conventional and I think we're fine switching screens and staying home. We've had most of our success on defense like that. Communication is key on defense and that's solely on the players to have each others backs.

[SirChurros]

If the Bucks come out Friday vs BKN stagnant and flat footed on offense I'll have my concerns about Prunty. He will now have ample time to prepare for this game and get into his own coaching groove. If things barely change I'll assume it's safe to say it wasn't just all on Kidd but the coaching staff as a whole. I want to see constant movement, screens, ball rotation etc. all that leads to open shots and easier shots at the rim. Everything under Kidd just looked too difficult at times. It seemed like it was way to easy for the defense to force us into working extra hard to get a half decent look at the rim. I don't want to see that anymore, I'm a firm believer that stuff like that falls primarily on the coach/staff. Get creative and maximize the talent for GD sake. If Prunty is incapable of doing that, well then give someone else a shot....

I'm more concerned about the offense truthfully, the defense just needs to stay conventional and I think we're fine switching screens and staying home. We've had most of our success on defense like that. Communication is key on defense and that's solely on the players to have each others backs.

I'm not sure I would consider three full days ample time to implement a new offense. I'm not going to crucify the dude if things aren't completely different.

[chonestown]

Any idea/insight if the Bucks will fill the spots vacated by Hughes and Grg?

[MickeyDavis]

Any idea/insight if the Bucks will fill the spots vacated by Hughes and Grg?

I highly doubt they add anyone to the staff. Once a permanent coach is hired this summer he will assemble a staff.

[Iheartfootball]

If Prunty gets things going then great, keep him around. If things barely change in either direction I'd consider going back on my word immediately and bring someone else in asap.

Or you could save yourself the trouble of continually changing the name on the coach's office door and acknowledge that who is on the sidelines may not be strongly correlated to team performance.

KG's comments about the Kidd firing, dismissed as ignorant ramblings here, were IMO pertinent and echo what I've been saying for a while about the real determinant of team success: building on-court chemistry, which takes a long time and is not coach-dependent.

How do you explain the Boston Celtics, who had as much turnover as any team in the last 12 months, and their success this year?

Why is it so black and white? Why can't it be, Kidd is not a good coach in the senses of X's and O's and the team as constructed may not have the best chemistry which is partially on management as well as Kidd. I don't think everyone thinks this is all on Kidd. Owners and players have blame as well. Kris admitted to dogging it. Owners admitted they don't know how to run the basketball side of things.

Okay, I made that last sentence up. But I'm really hoping they do through their actions (hiring a POPO, getting rid of Thorne, etc). To me it feels like a systemic issue. Owners have set up a flawed organizational structure with little accountability and need to retool.

[Iheartfootball]

when was this?

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nba/bucks/2018/01/23/bucks-players-know-they-must-pull-together-wake-jason-kidds-firing/1057082001/?from=new-cookie

Khris Middleton added: “We’ve got to (come together). When the head man goes, the head of the snake, we have to all buy in together and come together and do it for one another.”

Eh I wonder if he misspoke. NBA players aren’t wordsmiths and just wanted to say he was the leader and main guy. Would like to watch the tape of it.

Freudian slip?

[crkone]

http://journaltimes.com/print_specific/column/gery-woelfel-kidd-had-rocky-relationships-with-several-players/article_919bcbe3-8e6e-55f2-b6d0-156c242d960c.html

But Kidd’s power slowly and surely began to erode — to the surprise of nobody who has followed his tumultuous career, one littered with stories of how he feuded with his superiors, coaches and teammates.

Coinciding with the erosion of his influence in the organization, several NBA sources told me Kidd wanted out of Milwaukee and was interested in the head coaching job with the Phoenix Suns.

Some speculated Kidd was paranoid that he was going to be fired. Some thought Kidd was using it as a ploy to leverage a new contract while some thought Kidd simply didn’t like Milwaukee, that the mid-sized Midwest city wasn’t a bright enough stage for him. Kidd not only remained in Milwaukee but, to the amazement of many league officials, received a contract extension from the Bucks owners.

But last season, Kidd’s job was clearly in jeopardy. The Bucks hit the skids, losing 12 of 14 games. When I asked a high-ranking Bucks official at the time if Kidd was going to be fired, he paused for several seconds before saying “probably not.’’

That brutal stretch last season also raised red flags about Kidd’s coaching. Some NBA executives wondered if he had lost the team and seriously questioned Kidd’s coaching abilities.

I remember one game at the Bradley Center where I asked an NBA advance scout where he would rank Kidd among the 30 head coaches in the NBA. The scout said Kidd was the worst.

When I asked the same question of another NBA official a few weeks later, noting that an advance scout regarded Kidd as the worst coach in the league, the official vehemently disagreed. When I asked him which coaches were worse than Kidd, he waited a few seconds before naming just one other coach.

One former Bucks player told me Kidd was “really tough on Jabari when I was there and he shouldn’t have been. He had no reason to do that. Jabari is a good kid.’’ And another former Bucks player claimed Kidd threw Parker under the bus when, after Parker had talked publicly in general and non-critical terms about a team meeting, Kidd disciplined him by not starting him the next game. Kidd told reporters his decision came after the players voted on the matter.
When I asked a Bucks player a short time after the incident if he voted to have Parker sit at the start of the game, he replied, “What vote?’’ When I asked another player about the so-called vote, he replied, “Well … it must be true. It was in the paper and whatever you read in the paper is right.’’ He then started laughing. That incident, several people close to the Bucks said drove a Texas-size wedge between Parker and Kidd.

Interestingly, Monroe was in Milwaukee on Monday when Kidd was fired. When I asked Monroe what he thought of Kidd’s dismissal, he made it abundantly clear he didn’t want to discuss it.

“I’m not here anymore; that’s not my problem,’’ Monroe said.

I then asked Monroe about what kind of rapport he had with Kidd when he played for him and he simply responded: “He coached; I played. That’s it.’’

Veteran Jason Terry has known Kidd for a couple of decades and said Kidd was “like a brother.’’ There were also some reports Antetokounmpo was upset with the firing of Kidd, although he didn’t make himself available to the media before or after Monday night’s game. Sources told me Antetokounmpo was shook up about Kidd’s dismissal but added he, too, had his share of issues with Kidd over the years.

[old skool]

If Prunty gets things going then great, keep him around. If things barely change in either direction I'd consider going back on my word immediately and bring someone else in asap.

Or you could save yourself the trouble of continually changing the name on the coach's office door and acknowledge that who is on the sidelines may not be strongly correlated to team performance.

KG's comments about the Kidd firing, dismissed as ignorant ramblings here, were IMO pertinent and echo what I've been saying for a while about the real determinant of team success: building on-court chemistry, which takes a long time and is not coach-dependent.

I agree that reflexive coaching changes are unlikely to lead to sustained on court improvement. Every team needs a coach but performance is ultimately up to the players. The Bucks have been an up and down team throughout Kidd's tenure. I doubt that the coaching was great one night and horrid the next. I doubt that the Bucks have great schemes that get great looks for Antetokounmpo for three quarters, but shut him out when the game is on the line. I doubt that the Bucks had a great defensive scheme Kidd's first year and a horrible scheme since.

Many here point to Golden State as an example of a team that finds a holy grail of success after making a coaching change. Maybe that coaching change was the catalyst that has propelled the Warriors to record success, but it is more logical that superior talent is the main reason they are the best team in basketball. Kerr's arrival coincided with a marked jump in team success, but there was no drop off when Kerr was sidelined and Walton coached the team to a record breaking start. It would be wrong to attribute Walton's success subbing for Kerr to the "scheme", as that Golden State scheme is clearly not bringing similar results to Walton's Lakers or Gentry's Pelicans. It is the players that are making a difference, not the scheme or coaching.

The Bucks still have players who have yet to demonstrate that they know how to win in the NBA. The bench is severely lacking. The roster is imbalanced, lacking centers who can deal with physical play at the rim, lacking three point shooters, and lacking a solid back up PF. The Bucks have more talent and experience than the Lakers, less than the Pelicans and much, much less than the Warriors. The Bucks' record reflects that lack of talent. I do not support Kidd, but I think it is off base to blame him alone for the Bucks' record when the players bear more of the responsibility.

[yannisk]

I asked an NBA advance scout where he would rank Kidd among the 30 head coaches in the NBA. The scout said Kidd was the worst.

a bit harsh

When I asked the same question of another NBA official a few weeks later, noting that an advance scout regarded Kidd as the worst coach in the league, the official vehemently disagreed. When I asked him which coaches were worse than Kidd, he waited a few seconds before naming just one other coach.

that's about right

[ReginaldDwight]

I asked an NBA advance scout where he would rank Kidd among the 30 head coaches in the NBA. The scout said Kidd was the worst.

a bit harsh

When I asked the same question of another NBA official a few weeks later, noting that an advance scout regarded Kidd as the worst coach in the league, the official vehemently disagreed. When I asked him which coaches were worse than Kidd, he waited a few seconds before naming just one other coach.

that's about right

Lol not sure how anyone can be in here saying Kidd wasnt the biggest problem, dude lost the team and I wouldnt want him a WIAC school much less the bucks.

[MickeyDavis]

Conflicts between coaches and players are not uncommon. In every sport. The bottom line is Kidd just wasn't a good coach.

[TroyD92]

Conflicts between coaches and players are not uncommon. In every sport. The bottom line is Kidd just wasn't a good coach.

The thing with the Jabari punishment is pretty disgusting. Making up a bull thing about having a player vote and using that as the excuse? Seems par for the course with Kidd.

[crkone]

Conflicts between coaches and players are not uncommon. In every sport. The bottom line is Kidd just wasn't a good coach.

The thing with the Jabari punishment is pretty disgusting. Making up a bull thing about having a player vote and using that as the excuse? Seems par for the course with Kidd.

Or the vote was real and all the players didn't want to get voted on for their punishment for talking to the media about it.

[ZeppelinPage]

Sidney agreeing with Kevin Garnett and the goon squad is so grand.

Man, it feels so good to see that moron outta here. And if we end up with someone better and see improvement next year, just know: Sidney Lanier wanted to stick with Kidd and give him a couple more years to figure things out -- despite every in-depth breakdown from Coach Nick and Dean showing he was awful.

[MickeyDavis]

Yeah I don't see how anyone could argue that Kidd "needed more time". Come on now.

[sidney lanier]

The Bucks still have players who have yet to demonstrate that they know how to win in the NBA. The bench is severely lacking. The roster is imbalanced, lacking centers who can deal with physical play at the rim, lacking three point shooters, and lacking a solid back up PF. The Bucks have more talent and experience than the Lakers, less than the Pelicans and much, much less than the Warriors. The Bucks' record reflects that lack of talent. I do not support Kidd, but I think it is off base to blame him alone for the Bucks' record when the players bear more of the responsibility.

Excellent points throughout your post, and an accurate assessment of the state of the Bucks.

My fear going forward is that we impute future success to getting rid of Kidd, or future lack of success to Prunty, or Kidd hangover, or some other red herring. Or worse, the need for a high-profile coach or someone with international cred like Blatt who would ruin the stew with too much stirring.

My hope for a coach will always be that he (or even she) gets out of the way and lets the players find their own way, both in terms of personal and team development. A good jockey doesn't make a horse run faster, but he doesn't impede him, either, and steers him to a part of the track on which he can make his run at the right time. A bad jockey can take a great horse and cause him to lose by pushing him too hard at the wrong time.

Give me a light touch coach and let this team develop as it will without being overly concerned about current schemes and rotations.

[Frank Nova]

If the Bucks come out Friday vs BKN stagnant and flat footed on offense I'll have my concerns about Prunty. He will now have ample time to prepare for this game and get into his own coaching groove. If things barely change I'll assume it's safe to say it wasn't just all on Kidd but the coaching staff as a whole. I want to see constant movement, screens, ball rotation etc. all that leads to open shots and easier shots at the rim. Everything under Kidd just looked too difficult at times. It seemed like it was way to easy for the defense to force us into working extra hard to get a half decent look at the rim. I don't want to see that anymore, I'm a firm believer that stuff like that falls primarily on the coach/staff. Get creative and maximize the talent for GD sake. If Prunty is incapable of doing that, well then give someone else a shot....

I'm more concerned about the offense truthfully, the defense just needs to stay conventional and I think we're fine switching screens and staying home. We've had most of our success on defense like that. Communication is key on defense and that's solely on the players to have each others backs.

I'm not sure I would consider three full days ample time to implement a new offense. I'm not going to crucify the dude if things aren't completely different.

A new offense? That wasn't what I was saying at all. 3 days preparation is plenty of time to add creativity to a lack luster offense, simple as that. I don't expect a brand new offensive scheme but I do expect less ISO situations, less roaming around the perimeter and more movement. You don't have to implement a new offense to accomplish that by any means. If Prunty isn't gonna start creating an identity for himself and the team then he's no better than Kidd imo. I'm not going to crucify him either but I'll have my concerns. He's been with the team now for multiple years and as far as we know he has a functioning brain so I want to see how his brain works. That's really not much to ask from someone taking over for someone else that struggled mightily to think under pressure which is one of Kidds biggest flaws imo, hence the constant horrible game management.

[har13]

Lol i finally can laugh with what people defending Kidd are saying, i don't care anymore if they actually believe that you need years to build chemistry lol, i just don't, worst coach ever is out of Milwaukee and i' m so **** happy.

[Perishable517]

If the Bucks come out Friday vs BKN stagnant and flat footed on offense I'll have my concerns about Prunty. He will now have ample time to prepare for this game and get into his own coaching groove. If things barely change I'll assume it's safe to say it wasn't just all on Kidd but the coaching staff as a whole. I want to see constant movement, screens, ball rotation etc. all that leads to open shots and easier shots at the rim. Everything under Kidd just looked too difficult at times. It seemed like it was way to easy for the defense to force us into working extra hard to get a half decent look at the rim. I don't want to see that anymore, I'm a firm believer that stuff like that falls primarily on the coach/staff. Get creative and maximize the talent for GD sake. If Prunty is incapable of doing that, well then give someone else a shot....

I'm more concerned about the offense truthfully, the defense just needs to stay conventional and I think we're fine switching screens and staying home. We've had most of our success on defense like that. Communication is key on defense and that's solely on the players to have each others backs.

I'm not sure I would consider three full days ample time to implement a new offense. I'm not going to crucify the dude if things aren't completely different.

A new offense? That wasn't what I was saying at all. 3 days preparation is plenty of time to add creativity to a lack luster offense, simple as that. I don't expect a brand new offensive scheme but I do expect less ISO situations, less roaming around the perimeter and more movement. You don't have to implement a new offense to accomplish that by any means. If Prunty isn't gonna start creating an identity for himself and the team then he's no better than Kidd imo. I'm not going to crucify him either but I'll have my concerns. He's been with the team now for multiple years and as far as we know he has a functioning brain so I want to see how his brain works. That's really not much to ask from someone taking over for someone else that struggled mightily to think under pressure which is one of Kidds biggest flaws imo, hence the constant horrible game management.

I'm hoping we see minutes scaled back some.

I'm hoping we see a more consistent rotation.