Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIV

[popper]

It’s almost hopeless. Trade Wall for whatever we can get. Hopefully a pick, a decent player and expirings (even that meager haul would be a challenge). Maybe try to package Wall and Mahinmi and accept even less. Grunfeld ruined any oppty for near term success. The team needs a rebuild and Wall will never be a leader.

[Tricky_Kid]

I wonder what Cavs would want for KLove. I would trade Otto and his max deal without blinking. Oubre could get extra minutes.


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No. You don't want Love. He's a player without a position in today's game. He's too slow to play PF and he doesn't protect the rim well enough in help defense to play center.

I could swear each time I see KLove he looks like superstar.
Frontcourt must be changed. I think Morris will stay unfortunatelly because of his contract. Mahnimi isn't removable we can trade Gortat but what next?
Porter deal was nail in the coffin. I think if You can get valuable pieces he is the guy You should trade.

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[Kanyewest]

Kawhi is a top 5 player in the league. I'd trade anyone on this team for him in a second.

No one is debating that. But Otto and two 1sts is a massive haul.

I’d do that with Oubre instead probably

I love Otto, but him and two 1sts isn't even close to fair value, let alone a massive haul. We're talking about a 26-year-old superstar MVP candidate. They could ask for Otto AND Oubre along with picks and I'd gladly take it.

If the Spurs are trading Leonard for that, he is probably damaged goods.

[dangermouse]

I am absolutely frothing at the prospect of Otto for Kawhi + Forbes

Give an unportected future first to get it done, if we have to.

Correct the mistake Ernie made in 2011 when he shoulda drafted him instead of Vesely.

[payitforward]

This is fun, but I'm sorry -- there's no way for the Wizards to acquire Kawhi Leonard w/o dealing John Wall. Not if we want to keep him.

Kawhi has a $21m player option for '19-20, the year Wall's super-size salary hits. He isn't going to pick up that option, & we wouldn't be able to sign him to the max he'd be eligible for at that point.

When you make mistakes of the number, scale & cost of those Ernie has made, there is no magic move that gets you past them. You have to pay for those mistakes, & we will. The only possible hope is if we keep our R1 picks this year & next & manage to get lucky & draft a couple of studs. Otherwise, the team has no way to get better w/o getting much worse first.

We certainly won't get better via trades. As I've now said a bunch of times, there is no trade I can find that would move Porter & improve us -- not one that the other team would do, I mean. & I'm struggling to imagine who would acquire John Wall given that he is owed $142m over the next 4 seasons!

The one good move Ernie has made in the last 4 years, drafting Oubre, might be enough to get him out of one of his mistakes -- say Oubre & Mahinmi for a big expiring contract & another minor asset (Monroe/Bender?).

(Hey -- you all remember back when you thought trading a lottery pick for Morris was wise, signing Nicholson was terrific, picking up Smith was a sharp bargain, & trading for Burke was a heck of a move? Right? &, yeah, I do mean you. Oh, & how much you liked the trade for Bogdanovic? You haven't forgotten that, have you? Or how excited you were that we signed Scott Brooks, a coach who could make a real difference?)

Oh oh, I got snarky...! Forget about it!

[Wiz99]

Wall cant be traded until this summer

Then let’s do it after the Finals, before the draft.

Cleveland’s management will be in full panic mode of “How do we keep LeBron?! We gotta get a true All Star running mate for him!” Or “LeBron’s leaving! We gotta get a true All Star to keep butts in the seats and our jobs!”

If Cleveland is willing, would you say yes?

No. Why should we help the Cavs keep Lebron?

BTW, Cavs should be on the Phone with Portland to send IT and Love to their home on the West Coast for CJ and Aminu/Harkless

Who cares if it helps Cleveland with LeBron.

I’d do the deal because it improves the Wizards.

[dangermouse]

This is fun, but I'm sorry -- there's no way for the Wizards to acquire Kawhi Leonard w/o dealing John Wall. Not if we want to keep him.

Kawhi has a $21m player option for '19-20, the year Wall's super-size salary hits. He isn't going to pick up that option, & we wouldn't be able to sign him to the max he'd be eligible for at that point.

When you make mistakes of the number, scale & cost of those Ernie has made, there is no magic move that gets you past them. You have to pay for those mistakes, & we will. The only possible hope is if we keep our R1 picks this year & next & manage to get lucky & draft a couple of studs. Otherwise, the team has no way to get better w/o getting much worse first.

We certainly won't get better via trades. As I've now said a bunch of times, there is no trade I can find that would move Porter & improve us -- not one that the other team would do, I mean. & I'm struggling to imagine who would acquire John Wall given that he is owed $142m over the next 4 seasons!

The one good move Ernie has made in the last 4 years, drafting Oubre, might be enough to get him out of one of his mistakes -- say Oubre & Mahinmi for a big expiring contract & another minor asset (Monroe/Bender?).

(Hey -- you all remember back when you thought trading a lottery pick for Morris was wise, signing Nicholson was terrific, picking up Smith was a sharp bargain, & trading for Burke was a heck of a move? Right? &, yeah, I do mean you. Oh, & how much you liked the trade for Bogdanovic? You haven't forgotten that, have you? Or how excited you were that we signed Scott Brooks, a coach who could make a real difference?)

Oh oh, I got snarky...! Forget about it!

Could we not follow up said trade with a further trade(s) down the line to clear cap space before this eventuates? To me it seems like if a top tier player is available you worry about that kind of stuff after you get the deal done, if you want a chance to win that is.

[payitforward]

This is fun, but I'm sorry -- there's no way for the Wizards to acquire Kawhi Leonard w/o dealing John Wall. Not if we want to keep him.

Kawhi has a $21m player option for '19-20, the year Wall's super-size salary hits. He isn't going to pick up that option, & we wouldn't be able to sign him to the max he'd be eligible for at that point....

Could we not follow up said trade with a further trade(s) down the line to clear cap space before this eventuates? To me it seems like if a top tier player is available you worry about that kind of stuff after you get the deal done, if you want a chance to win that is.

I love Kawhi; I would have drafted him @#6 in 2011 (not to say that I anticipated him being as great as he is!). Of course, yes, it would make sense to do a lot to land him.

But, tell me, have you actually looked at our salary situation? http://www.basketballinsiders.com/washington-wizards-team-salary/

Feel free to explain what "further trade(s)" would "clear cap space" to make this work? Assuming Mahinmi is gone, that it was Porter we'd traded (somehow) for Leonard, & that we re-signed Kawhi at $30m, we would have 3 players under contract -- for $95m.

Of course, we'd have to forget about Oubre. Perhaps he went in the deal to acquire Leonard?

We could give Satoransky his qualifying offer, I suppose. Whereupon, we'd be about at the cap & have 4 players.

But lets assume further, why not be optimistic?, that we didn't p#ss away our 2018 & 2019 draft picks.

In that case, we'd be over the cap & heading for tax territory with 6 players. But, of course, it's unlikely we'd have both those young players yet still have managed to trade Mahinmi.

So, yeah, "if you want to win" you do what you have to do to acquire that "top tier player." What we'd have to do is trade Wall -- w/o taking much back, btw.

[TGW]

You get Leonard and figure out the books later.

[FAH1223]

LOL @ the Spurs trading Kawhi Leonard.

They almost traded Aldridge and then Pop set things straight with him and now look at his play - he's back to Portland days.

They almost lost Duncan in 2000 and Pop was able to keep him.

[Kanyewest]

LOL @ the Spurs trading Kawhi Leonard.

They almost traded Aldridge and then Pop set things straight with him and now look at his play - he's back to Portland days.

They almost lost Duncan in 2000 and Pop was able to keep him.

Also, almost got rid of Parker to sign Jason Kidd.

[daSwami]

It’s almost hopeless. Trade Wall for whatever we can get ... Wall will never be a leader.

Popper, I'm curious why you state this as fact. I encourage you to read the letter he wrote to his father. That, coupled with what I've heard from a friend about his work ethic (a trainer who helped him rehab from a knee injury), give me every reason to believe that trading Wall because he'll "never be a leader" would be a capricious and foolish move for a franchise known for such moves.

[nate33]

It’s almost hopeless. Trade Wall for whatever we can get ... Wall will never be a leader.

Popper, I'm curious why you state this as fact. I encourage you to read the letter he wrote to his father. That, coupled with what I've heard from a friend about his work ethic (a trainer who helped him rehab from a knee injury), give me every reason to believe that trading Wall because he'll "never be a leader" would be a capricious and foolish move for a franchise known for such moves.

I'm curious to hear more about his work ethic.

Judging from his game, Wall seems like a guy who loves basketball and loves to play, but doesn't necessarily like to grind it out doing boring footwork drills in the offseason. His improvement over the years has generally been an improvement in overall feel of the game - his ability to change speeds and manipulate defenses - gained from thousands of hours just playing. I haven't seen him add much in terms of raw, fundamental skills. His shooting form has only marginally improved. He hasn't developed a good hesitation dribble. His pull-up jumper still has a slow release. He hasn't developed a post game to take advantage of smaller opponents.

He also tends to start seasons a little out of shape.

I'm not saying Wall doesn't work hard. I do question if he works smart though. Obviously, I don't really know much about Wall's work habits, and I'm just surmising based on what I see. I'd be happy to get an inside scoop.

[daSwami]

It’s almost hopeless. Trade Wall for whatever we can get ... Wall will never be a leader.

Popper, I'm curious why you state this as fact. I encourage you to read the letter he wrote to his father. That, coupled with what I've heard from a friend about his work ethic (a trainer who helped him rehab from a knee injury), give me every reason to believe that trading Wall because he'll "never be a leader" would be a capricious and foolish move for a franchise known for such moves.

I'm curious to hear more about his work ethic.

Judging from his game, Wall seems like a guy who loves basketball and loves to play, but doesn't necessarily like to grind it out doing boring footwork drills in the offseason. His improvement over the years has generally been an improvement in overall feel of the game - his ability to change speeds and manipulate defenses - gained from thousands of hours just playing. I haven't seen him add much in terms of raw, fundamental skills. His shooting form has only marginally improved. He hasn't developed a good hesitation dribble. His pull-up jumper still has a slow release. He hasn't developed a post game to take advantage of smaller opponents.

He also tends to start seasons a little out of shape.

I'm not saying Wall doesn't work hard. I do question if he works smart though. Obviously, I don't really know much about Wall's work habits, and I'm just surmising based on what I see. I'd be happy to get an inside scoop.

My "source" is a physical trainer who has worked with several Wizards over the years. He didn't give me any inside scoop on Wall's basketball fundamentals, as his job is more focused on helping athletes recover from injuries (major and minor). Back in 2013, He said Yi Jianlian was the hardest-working player he'd ever trained, and that Wall was a close second (and Dre Blatche, unsurpringly, the laziest). That's all I've got, inside scoop-wise, but I trust this guy's insights.

[payitforward]

Wow, an Andrey Blatche mention! Always a welcome distraction!

[LyricalRico]

Ummm, I think you guys spelled "Baltche" wrong.

[popper]

It’s almost hopeless. Trade Wall for whatever we can get ... Wall will never be a leader.

Popper, I'm curious why you state this as fact. I encourage you to read the letter he wrote to his father. That, coupled with what I've heard from a friend about his work ethic (a trainer who helped him rehab from a knee injury), give me every reason to believe that trading Wall because he'll "never be a leader" would be a capricious and foolish move for a franchise known for such moves.

I should have added IMO. Wall is a top 5 pg and he deserves credit for that. I enjoy watching him most of the time. I do question Walls commitment on the defensive end and I don’t like the hero ball. For those reasons and combined with my intuition about intangible leadership qualities (just my opinion) I think we’d be better off trading him to give us salary flexibility to reboot. I recognize we can’t trade him until July I believe and as long as Grun is GM it’s not going to happen. That’s why I began with “it’s almost hopeless.”

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

That's right... Ernie could have drafted Leonard and Faried instead of Vesely and Singleton.

Yikes...

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[Ruzious]

Regardless of what we find out about work ethic, it's becoming very clear that John has simply not been moving without the ball, so when John's teammates have the ball, he's not helping them at all, and he's not presenting a target for them to pass to. He's hurting Beal the most when he does that, but he's hurting anyone else trying to create when he does that. Beal, Otto, and Gortat move all over the place when John has the ball, but John stays stationary whenever anyone else is trying to create. Maybe John thinks filling a catch and shoot role is beneath him? Maybe he doesn't have confidence in his ability to do it? Bottom line, he doesn't present himself as an option most of the time - allowing defenses to ignore him when he's off the ball.

[payitforward]

That's right... Ernie could have drafted Leonard and Faried instead of Vesely and Singleton.

Yikes...

& Chandler Parsons instead of Shelvin Mack.
Or Isaiah Thomas.
Or at least not waived Mack -- the only one of his 3 picks who is still an NBA player!

& that he could have taken Draymond Green or Jae Crowder or Will Barton instead of Satoransky -- as you & I & a few others were screaming for him to do!

& Clint Capela, had he not thrown a pick away b/c he had no back up plan when Okafor went down.

& Jordan Clarkson -- not a great player but a more valuable asset than the few $$ we received for him.

& Denzel Valentine (or Ellenson or Hernangomez) instead of throwing the pick away for Morris.

& Jarrett Allen instead of having to give the pick away to bury his mistake w/ Nicholson.

& soon, no doubt, he'll give away his 1 good pick in the last few years -- Oubre -- to bury his mistake w/ Mahinmi.

What a disaster Ernie Grunfeld is!