KIDD FIRED - Hughes/Grgurich also fired - Vin Baker Hired

econniption · Post #1461 » by **econniption** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:29 am

blazza18 wrote:Was pretty excited to hear the Lowe/Windhorst podcast to see what info there would be on the Kidd firing. An hour podcast and outside of mentioning it happened on Monday there was no talk at all.

Here's a good replacement for us: Kevin Arnovitz chats with NBA writer Tom Haberstroh about the Bucks at the 47:00 minute mark.

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=22200268

StickeeFingaz · Post #1462 » by **StickeeFingaz** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:31 am

My President.

Read on Twitter

ReginaldDwight · Post #1463 » by **ReginaldDwight** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:49 am

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:so kidd is personally responsible for the individual improvement and breakout of half the squad while he bears no responsibility for the team stagnating and performing worse over that same time period.

the getting worse as a team is on the players while the talent explosion goes to kidd.

seriously wtf. this is the most nut debate ive ever heard on this board.

They are gonna die on the JKidd cross.

Post #1464 » by **Prez** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:59 am

old skool wrote:Several Bucks made great progress under Kidd.

Antetokounmpo is the gold star example. His development was an all-time accomplishment.

Maker made great progress. He is a much better player than he was one year ago, even though he has shown less than he did in the playoffs last year.

Middleton has developed into a near All-Star. He has improved his scoring almost every year, especially under Kidd. In the last two years his play making has improved notably, as evidenced by an increase in assists per game/36 minutes.

Brogdon has made great progress in a season and a half. He was extremely limited at the start of last season. Now he is a solid roatation player who makes big contributions at crunch time.

Parker was a much better player under Kidd than he was when he came into the league - even though missing much time to injury.

Some organic improvement should be expected regardless of coaching, but Bucks players seem to develop better than most under Kidd. Let's not fail to give him his due for those accomplishments just because of our warranted dislike of his limitations during games and with X's and O's.

Making progress while Kidd is coach does not mean Kidd was some great developer of talent. Almost every guy you listed is 1) young and in the phase of his career where big year to year improvements occur, 2) super driven and hard working.

Kidd deserves credit for not majorly screwing up and destroying their careers. That's about it.

Pachinko_ · Post #1465 » by **Pachinko_** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:08 am

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:so kidd is personally responsible for the individual improvement and breakout of half the squad while he bears no responsibility for the team stagnating and performing worse over that same time period.

the getting worse as a team is on the players while the talent explosion goes to kidd.

seriously wtf. this is the most nut debate ive ever heard on this board.

When it comes to the Bucks I trust this board's opinion more than anything, because you are the only people I am confident that A) You actually watch Bucks games (as opposed to those national media journalists, who by definition don't have time to watch every team) B) You are not paid by the Bucks or depend on the Bucks (like KG and some local journos), instead you pay the Bucks and C) You are not Kidd's buddies (like KG and other former players).

Those 3 things make you the only informed and objective party I know, and you have spoken loud and clear.

Kidd's grades have been handed to him and his case is closed. We are now just talking about Kidd for the sake of talking.

Baddy Chuck · Post #1466 » by **Baddy Chuck** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:15 am

Kidd was trash and largely players have always developed no matter who was/is coaching them.

chonestown · Post #1467 » by **chonestown** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:22 am

ashy : classy :: c*nty : Prunty

RogerMurdock · Post #1468 » by **RogerMurdock** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:33 am

old skool wrote:Brogdon has made great progress in a season and a half. He was extremely limited at the start of last season. Now he is a solid roatation player who makes big contributions at crunch time.

Parker was a much better player under Kidd than he was when he came into the league - even though missing much time to injury.

I really don't think Brogdon's improvement has much of anything to do with Kidd. In fact, I don't think Brogdon has really "improved" all that much, which isn't an insult to him. He was a very good player coming into the NBA and is a very good player now. When he first entered the league, he wasn't a starter and was deferring to his teammates, trying to be a good teammate himself (the deferring could have been because he was told to, because he felt he should, or both). He wasn't expected or asked to come in and take over, so he just fit in and did his thing. But he showed everyone eventually that he could kick a bit of ass, so he has both been allowed to take the reins off (within reason, obviously) and has himself become more confident in his ability to be a leader and even carry the team at times. His game is still the same - he just asserts himself more.

His growth has been more in his mentality, confidence, and acclimation to the league and his teammates that it has been anything else, in my opinion. Certainly, he's an extremely intelligent guy who has gotten better, and while I don't doubt that Kidd taught him a few things, I feel like Brogdon's growth is more organic and self-made.

As for Parker, I can't see any reason to say Kidd has had any positive impact on him. Parker has barely played. When he has played and looked healthy/in shape, he has been quite good. He hasn't played enough to have shown much of any progress, coached or not.

And for the other guys, I don't really have an opinion. Kidd may have helped them, he may have not. I would think he has helped develop players; his failings are more in-game.

Pachinko_ · Post #1469 » by **Pachinko_** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:35 am

Brogdon is exactly the same player he was last year LOL
His role changed because we got Bledsoe, so he shoots a little more and passes a little less, everything else is the same.

Gianstoppable · Post #1470 » by **Gianstoppable** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:55 am

StickeeFingaz wrote:My President.

Read on Twitter

Getting the vibe the team is happier with Prunty

th87 · Post #1471 » by **th87** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:10 am

chonestown wrote:ashy : classy :: c*nty : Prunty

sewing tigers on my shirts : being bought milks (chocolate) at lunch

Triple 7 · Post #1472 » by **Triple 7** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:11 am

Whether or not Kidd was a catalyst for improvement, the word is that he was generally unliked at this point. That tends to stagnate improvement and makes this discussion a moot point. Maybe we're just discussing his level of effectiveness post-mortem but it's clear that whatever he brought to the table was waning.

bucksfansince88 · Post #1473 » by **bucksfansince88** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:14 am

Brogdon definitely was in the fire kidd camp

blazza18 · Post #1474 » by **blazza18** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:08 am

Gianstoppable wrote:
StickeeFingaz wrote:My President.

Read on Twitter

Getting the vibe the team is happier with Prunty

That would be a positive

PedroGrande · Post #1475 » by **PedroGrande** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:34 am

Yep. It's not what kidd was but who he is. Even if he is a master God player developer, right now we have a couple of turds that you can't polish that much

Wonka · Post #1476 » by **Wonka** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:41 am

At this point we may as well have a poll that asks if you are Pro or Anti Kidd and then leave that bullsh*t in the past. Time to focus on our very bright future now instead

truly · Post #1477 » by **truly** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:59 am

Pachinko_ wrote:Brogdon is exactly the same player he was last year LOL
His role changed because we got Bledsoe, so he shoots a little more and passes a little less, everything else is the same.

Brogdon has improved his finishing around the basket.He uses the backboard a lot better than last year.You can see that he worked on it the past offseason.

3Diamantidis · Post #1478 » by **3Diamantidis** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:13 am

kid idioteque wrote:It's not impossible for Kidd to get another chance to coach somewhere, but no GM in the league is going to forget what he pulled in Brooklyn. Only a stupid team with a puppet general manager would target him at this point.

The knicks and the lakers will definitely have Kidd in mind when they decide to move on from walton and hornacek.
If you take a minute to read the boards of these fanbases when kidd got fired(they created special threads for that

) you will see that kidd has enough fans over there. The reason for this is his popularity.
Just yesterday i read a post on lakers forum stating that the lakers must get kidd in order to get giannis and star free agents.

old skool · Post #1479 » by **old skool** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:13 am

Pachinko_ wrote:So you have a guy who is so long he can literally dunk on his tiptoes, and they had to change his shot mechanics because someone was going to block him. At the 3 pt line. And easily as well.

Ok, thanks.

He started his jump shot low, from his waist, in a slow looping motion. That shot was never going to be functional in the NBA. Not only would it be easy to block but it took him so long to get the shot off that it only worked when he was wide open. He had one of the slowest releases in the NBA. His shot mechanics improved completely after the new coaching staff came in. The improvement was readily apparent.

3Diamantidis · Post #1480 » by **3Diamantidis** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:28 am

Nowak008 wrote:
Prez wrote:You could swap Kidd for literally any other head coach in the league and Giannis would've become just as good or better. Most coaches would have him better considering they wouldn't have him playing in a clown show of a defensive scheme and wouldn't create a mental block with his jumpshot telling him not to shoot for a year.

Giannis went from skinny kinda weak kid to freakiest athlete in the league, and refined his ball skills to the point where he could handle an offensive centerpiece role. Sweeney and Suki >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kidd in Giannis' development.

Just as good or better? Giannis is a top 5 player in the entire league. Kidd did Giannis a great service molding him into Shaq and not Tracy McGrady. If we had Scott Skiles or Terry Stotts I don't think Giannis is as good as he is now.

Hard to dispute a counterfactual I know, but it's what I believe. I'm not saying he shouldn't have been fired - he clearly earned it (Lakers pick/Jabari relationship/our current record) ... I just don't understand why so many ppl on here are going out of their way to not give Kidd any credit for Giannis's development.

Yes i don't get that either.
If there's one thing kidd did well, it's giannis development.
People can say anything they want but i can't think of many coaches that would have given the reigns to giannis to be a PG 2 yrs ago.
And although the team went on a different direction just after 2 months(with delly), this move made wonders for giannis confidence.
The shot....i don't know if it was the right thing to not let him shoot for a year but i think that giannis has improved on that too.

Secondly, all this convo is a little bit insulting for giannis. If he feels that kidd was a major key for his development none of us can say otherwise. Giannis knows better. We can talk only for games. Practices, vacations, endless travels throughout the country for 3,5 years. A coach can influence and inspire a player in many ways that aren't easily anticipated by us.

Kidd should be fired a long ago. It was the logical thing to do. But i won't discredit him for giannis. Never did.