KIDD FIRED - Hughes/Grgurich also fired - Vin Baker Hired

[hege53190]

You think it's weird to be held accountable for a very strong statement made on a radio show? Should at least be asked about what changed for him to allow him to stay in the two weeks between when he said that and when Kidd was fired.

You never heard of towing the company line? Anything these guys say publicly should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

[emunney]

You think it's weird to be held accountable for a very strong statement made on a radio show? Should at least be asked about what changed for him to allow him to stay in the two weeks between when he said that and when Kidd was fired.

You never heard of towing the company line? Anything these guys say publicly should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

Um, that's not towing the company line. That's pledging fealty to a fellow employee. "If he goes, I go," is not a pro-Bucks declaration.

[emunney]

Frank Johnson was also let go.

Read on Twitter

[skones]

That was before the surge at the end and the GM shakeup.

If Kidd had absolutely no say in who was picked there why was he and Thorn holding private workouts with draftees?

Surge at the end? Thorn and Kidd only private workouts with draftees? When someone in the office is asked if Kidd will be fired and his response is "probably not" in addition to the reports of management souring on Kidd due to his past personnel decisions, his ultimate power was limited more than some believe around here as it pertains to last season.

Yeah surge at the end. The Bucks were 20-10 to finish the season. That had to make Kidd look Pretty good.

As for Kidd and Thorn holding private workouts that is what I read from PaulPressey our Mod in the DJ Wilson draft thread. So yeah I believe Kidd and Thorn still held a lot of influence last Draft.

If the seed is planted, the seed is planted. That 20-10 finish to the season and first round exit isn't going to change that. Just because concerns have been alleviated to an extent, doesn't mean he's scott free here are the keys jkidd when they'd already been largely removed from his pocket.

I don't think Kidd and Thorn, alone, were contacting and bringing players on their own accord. I certainly believe they may have been present.

[Ron Swanson]

It's a pro-coaching staff line. He didn't say, "If he goes, I go the very second he does in the middle of the season."

[FrieAaron]

Vaughn is the player that confuses me. He looks like he can play if given the chance, if given permission to be confident. I'm not saying he's an All-Star in waiting, but when I see him get more than a token minute, he looks like he could contribute if given more of an opportunity. I'm just so confused as to way he NEVER plays. I'm curious if it was Kidd holding him down and that maybe Vaughn will get a little more run the rest of the season.

Who knows, maybe he really does stink, but he's shown enough flashes and actually had a few nice games to make me think that he can contribute at least a little.

Even more confusing given how long a leash Kidd gave to Thon. We'll see how minutes change over the next few months I guess.

[Matches Malone]

Curious to know why Johnson was let go? He wasn't truly on the coaching staff, was he? Just seemed like a personal coach/trainer for Jabari.

[sidney lanier]

Vaughn is the player that confuses me. He looks like he can play if given the chance, if given permission to be confident. I'm not saying he's an All-Star in waiting, but when I see him get more than a token minute, he looks like he could contribute if given more of an opportunity. I'm just so confused as to way he NEVER plays. I'm curious if it was Kidd holding him down and that maybe Vaughn will get a little more run the rest of the season.

Who knows, maybe he really does stink, but he's shown enough flashes and actually had a few nice games to make me think that he can contribute at least a little.

This confuses me too. Maybe we're seeing things in Vaughn that aren't there, but he sure seems like he could develop into a Ricky Pierce-type scoring specialist off the bench, and why he hasn't had the chance to test that hypothesis one way or the other is kind of baffling.

[emunney]

It's a pro-coaching staff line. He didn't say, "If he goes, I go the very second he does in the middle of the season."

WELL I DIDN'T SAY RIGHT AWAYYYYYYYYYY

Ok, so Jason Terry is a 10 year old. Got it.

12th man ultimatums are normal for you guys apparently.

[mlloyd10]

Kidd had those stupid test that i bet vaughn couldn't pass

[DingleJerry]

Vaughn is the player that confuses me. He looks like he can play if given the chance, if given permission to be confident. I'm not saying he's an All-Star in waiting, but when I see him get more than a token minute, he looks like he could contribute if given more of an opportunity. I'm just so confused as to way he NEVER plays. I'm curious if it was Kidd holding him down and that maybe Vaughn will get a little more run the rest of the season.

Who knows, maybe he really does stink, but he's shown enough flashes and actually had a few nice games to make me think that he can contribute at least a little.

This confuses me too. Maybe we're seeing things in Vaughn that aren't there, but he sure seems like he could develop into a Ricky Pierce-type scoring specialist off the bench, and why he hasn't had the chance to test that hypothesis one way or the other is kind of baffling.

Nailed it here Sid. It's because 'owning the future' was just a marketing campaign. It was still all about chasing the 8 seed the last few years so you end up playing Terry in front of him and a string of D leaguers this year who you know have no shot.

Vaughn after his good start last season should have been given a good run of play to see what happens. instead he had a couple good games and got benched for it

[M-C-G]

You don’t think Kidd and Thorn had substantially more say in who was drafted last year? The owners probably also had influence and ultimately the final say.

Hell I would bet on Alex Lasrys opinions carrying more weight in the first round of last years draft than Horst’s.

Last year at this time we had such a muddied hierarchy I had no idea who was making the moves. Today all I see is Horst at the top and it is glorious.

No. The writing was already on the wall for Kidd. Reports coming out now are only making that more evident.

Regardless of his standing, I'm sure he had input into our draft strategy. According to Horst we were looking for "high floor players that could contribute", which does have Kidd written all over it.

All that said, you want to be a GM you are getting the blame when you draft a bust and frankly the team gets more of the credit when you hit on a guy. Comes with the territory.

[M-C-G]

Vaughn is the player that confuses me. He looks like he can play if given the chance, if given permission to be confident. I'm not saying he's an All-Star in waiting, but when I see him get more than a token minute, he looks like he could contribute if given more of an opportunity. I'm just so confused as to way he NEVER plays. I'm curious if it was Kidd holding him down and that maybe Vaughn will get a little more run the rest of the season.

Who knows, maybe he really does stink, but he's shown enough flashes and actually had a few nice games to make me think that he can contribute at least a little.

I've been on a pretty lonely island along with a few others that thinks Vaughn has very real scoring talent, and it was a mistake to try and force him in to Jason Terry 2.0 role.

I think letting Vaughn run some PnR would surprise people and his defense has been been good in terms of effort and energy. It was pretty inexcusable the way he has been dicked around in the Kidd era and I think not picking up that option was dumb, just cut the kid and let him get on with his career.

[M-C-G]

Curious to know why Johnson was let go? He wasn't truly on the coaching staff, was he? Just seemed like a personal coach/trainer for Jabari.

I'm curious how much of these moves were "fired" vs "choose to leave". Grg and Johnson were barely official coaches, but I think just had some kind of loyalty to Kidd to step away once he was fired. But who knows, maybe the plan with Johnson was to head out once Jabari was ready to come back, which is like two weeks away.

[hege53190]

Surge at the end? Thorn and Kidd only private workouts with draftees? When someone in the office is asked if Kidd will be fired and his response is "probably not" in addition to the reports of management souring on Kidd due to his past personnel decisions, his ultimate power was limited more than some believe around here as it pertains to last season.

Yeah surge at the end. The Bucks were 20-10 to finish the season. That had to make Kidd look Pretty good.

As for Kidd and Thorn holding private workouts that is what I read from PaulPressey our Mod in the DJ Wilson draft thread. So yeah I believe Kidd and Thorn still held a lot of influence last Draft.

If the seed is planted, the seed is planted. That 20-10 finish to the season and first round exit isn't going to change that. Just because concerns have been alleviated to an extent, doesn't mean he's scott free here are the keys jkidd when they'd already been largely removed from his pocket.

I don't think Kidd and Thorn, alone, were contacting and bringing players on their own accord. I certainly believe they may have been present.

You are ignoring the power shakeup last summer and the owners botching the GM search. It was totally plausible that Kidd and Thorn were running the show last year like some reports said they were.

[skones]

Yeah surge at the end. The Bucks were 20-10 to finish the season. That had to make Kidd look Pretty good.

As for Kidd and Thorn holding private workouts that is what I read from PaulPressey our Mod in the DJ Wilson draft thread. So yeah I believe Kidd and Thorn still held a lot of influence last Draft.

If the seed is planted, the seed is planted. That 20-10 finish to the season and first round exit isn't going to change that. Just because concerns have been alleviated to an extent, doesn't mean he's scott free here are the keys jkidd when they'd already been largely removed from his pocket.

I don't think Kidd and Thorn, alone, were contacting and bringing players on their own accord. I certainly believe they may have been present.

You are ignoring the power shakeup last summer and the owners botching the GM search. It was totally plausible that Kidd and Thorn were running the show last year like some reports said they were.

You are ignoring other people who have jobs. Hammond, the GM left. It was a GM search not "replace everyone in basketball operations." Hammond was not the only guy working in that department. That's not how businesses work. Hierarchies are in place, and the head coach on thin ice isn't going to suddenly leap to the top of it.

What's more plausible to you? Kidd flexes his muscle after already being on thin ice the season prior, or the guy who was eventually hired as GM and was the Director of Basketball Operations during this time period is asserting himself and impressing ownership throughout the process? I mean, christ, Horst was hired from WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION. Do you think he just wasn't heavily involved until he was given the general manager title?

[hege53190]

If the seed is planted, the seed is planted. That 20-10 finish to the season and first round exit isn't going to change that. Just because concerns have been alleviated to an extent, doesn't mean he's scott free here are the keys jkidd when they'd already been largely removed from his pocket.

I don't think Kidd and Thorn, alone, were contacting and bringing players on their own accord. I certainly believe they may have been present.

You are ignoring the power shakeup last summer and the owners botching the GM search. It was totally plausible that Kidd and Thorn were running the show last year like some reports said they were.

\

You are ignoring other people who have jobs. Hammond, the GM left. It was a GM search not "replace everyone in basketball operations." Hammond was not the only guy working in that department. That's not how businesses work.

WTF are you talking about? You said the DJ Wilson pick was solely on Horst. I would say that it is more likely that Horst did not have the final say. His input while listened to was probably not even top 5 in importance in the room.

I am guessing he was acting like the glorified yes man that he was hired to be.

9 months later the guy has shanked one of the loudest and most belligerent voices in the room while also possibly ushering out the other voice between his and the owners.

[skones]

You are ignoring the power shakeup last summer and the owners botching the GM search. It was totally plausible that Kidd and Thorn were running the show last year like some reports said they were.

\

You are ignoring other people who have jobs. Hammond, the GM left. It was a GM search not "replace everyone in basketball operations." Hammond was not the only guy working in that department. That's not how businesses work.

WTF are you talking about? You said the DJ Wilson pick was solely on Horst. I would say that it is more likely that Horst did not have the final say. His input while listened to was probably not even top 5 in importance in the room.

I am guessing he was acting like the glorified yes man that he was hired to be.

9 months later the guy has shanked one of the loudest and most belligerent voices in the room while also possibly ushering out the other voice between his and the owners.

You're talking about Kidd and Thorn being "in charge", when the guy who was hired to take over (and eventually fire your "in charge" guy) WAS IN THE BUILDING DOING HIS JOB that's what I'm talking about. This isn't that hard to follow.

[hege53190]

If the seed is planted, the seed is planted. That 20-10 finish to the season and first round exit isn't going to change that. Just because concerns have been alleviated to an extent, doesn't mean he's scott free here are the keys jkidd when they'd already been largely removed from his pocket.

I don't think Kidd and Thorn, alone, were contacting and bringing players on their own accord. I certainly believe they may have been present.

You are ignoring the power shakeup last summer and the owners botching the GM search. It was totally plausible that Kidd and Thorn were running the show last year like some reports said they were.

\

You are ignoring other people who have jobs. Hammond, the GM left. It was a GM search not "replace everyone in basketball operations." Hammond was not the only guy working in that department. That's not how businesses work. Hierarchies are in place, and the head coach on thin ice isn't going to suddenly leap to the top of it.

What's more plausible to you? Kidd flexes his muscle after already being on thin ice the season prior, or the guy who was eventually hired as GM and was the Director of Basketball Operations during this time period is asserting himself and impressing ownership throughout the process? I mean, christ, Horst was hired from WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION. Do you think he just wasn't heavily involved until he was given the general manager title?

Since you added more I will respond again.

I think it is much more plausible that Kidd and Thorn were running the show. You say he was on thin ice but I don’t think Kidd ever believed that. From every report I read, he acted like a belligerent entitled child right up to the minute he was fired. And in all actuality it didn’t stop when he was fired because he tried to drag Giannis and the organization down with him.

I absolutely believe that Horst learned the way to survive from Hammond was to be the the ultimate yes man.

[Chapter29]

More minutes don't make trash players look better.

If you want to make that judgment off a guy playing 53 minutes, feel free to, but I'm not going to.

did you watch any of those minutes?

cuz if you did, you'd have the same conclusion.

too soft, too pathetic.

I share the same opinion but its not written in stone that he is bad.