Political Roundtable Part XVII

[dckingsfan]

Is there a contradiction somewhere?

Yep.

My point is the folks at the FBI who are being characterized as leftist shills actually lean Republican. They're being characterized as such because Trump and his goons want to discredit the investigation.

So, you are saying that the Trumpers who really aren't Rs per se are goons and the real Rs are prosecuting Trump.

And yeah, I think people who support Trump and the GOP right now and indulge in things like #ReleaseTheMemo and #PizzaGate are evil or clueless morons (or both).

No argument...

Comey, McCabe, Mueller etc do not meet that description.

Yep, but still Rs, no?

I think there are some [soon-to-be-former] Republican voters out there with integrity who realize their party is a scam and the vast majority of progressive values are 100% correct and will be accepted as universal truths before humanity goes extinct.

The issue isn't just values it is governance. And the Ds have been just as bad and incompetent as the Rs. I think the majority of voters have already realized that both parties are essentially corrupt. I just think you have your blinders on for one of the parties.

DC, no. There is no contradiction here.

What you're missing is that the GOP has transformed over the last two decades.

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Someone who values small government isn't inherently bad or evil, but if their value of small government enables them to look beyond all of the vile crimes against humanity put forth by Trump and the GOP, that is bad. I don't know how Mueller or Comey would have voted in 2016 - or more importantly how they'd vote in 2020, but they're ostensibly apolitical valuers of truth, and that seems adequate for investigating political crimes of either party.

The GOP of 2018 is not the same as the Republican party of 1998. Voting for GWB is not the same thing as voting for Trump. I don't condemn anyone who was a Republican in 1998, but we've got an issue if you stand by the GOP in 2018.

That you are quoting G Elliot Morris to say the Ds haven't moved as far left as the Rs have moved right just proves my point.

Most are looking for SUSTAINABLE government - not "small" government. And neither party has been able to wrap their corrupt heads around this... and certainly not the Ds of 1998 and even LESS so now.

[Wizardspride]

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[gtn130]

That you are quoting G Elliot Morris to say the Ds haven't moved as far left as the Rs have moved right just proves my point.

Sorry, man, that's a pretty weak response. His conclusion is one that everyone else has already arrived at. It was a short, visual way of presenting it on a message board.

You can see the same thing here, here, here, and here.

The GOP over the last ~20 years has gone far to the right, whereas Democrats only moved slightly to the left. You may not like hearing that, but it's true. If you want to verify that yourself, go watch Fox News for 15 minutes.

You can same-sides things all you want, but you'll keep being wrong.

[Wizardspride]

Luckily we have Diamond & Silk, Larry Elder & Candace Owens to tell us how wrong this poll is.

They're "WOKE" etc etc

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[Wizardspride]

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[closg00]

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You're not one of those young earth conservatives are you? Do you believe in the scientific method?

[dckingsfan]

That you are quoting G Elliot Morris to say the Ds haven't moved as far left as the Rs have moved right just proves my point.

Sorry, man, that's a pretty weak response. His conclusion is one that everyone else has already arrived at. It was a short, visual way of presenting it on a message board.

You can see the same thing here, here, here, and here.

The GOP over the last ~20 years has gone far to the right, whereas Democrats only moved slightly to the left. You may not like hearing that, but it's true. If you want to verify that yourself, go watch Fox News for 15 minutes.

You can same-sides things all you want, but you'll keep being wrong.

Sad that you missed the point of the post - its at the end. Paraphrasing Bill Clinton: Its sustainability stupid and the Ds have gone further left and the Rs further right leading to the same end.

The Atlantic, Pew, et. al. measured the wrong metric. And especially Morris who can see the forest for the trees. Edit: What he fails to point out is that most of the country is where neither of the party crosses - I think he knows but cares not to mention.

[payitforward]

nate... you have no trouble w/ logic in any other thread.

If you like "mood of investors" better than "investors' belief that stocks will rise", fine -- but the former has no meaning beyond the latter. & neither of them has any connection with any opinion about Donald Trump (or any other President at any other time -- I'm not picking on him!).

To make the point obvious: as you know, I don't "agree with the decisions that Trump has made so far." & I certainly don't like Trump's economic policies, above all his trade policies which I see as negative factors for economic growth long-term. If I were able to, I'd reverse pretty much every economic policy decision he's made so far.

You & I may disagree, but you know perfectly well what my opinion is. You may disagree w/ my reasons for my opinions, but you are aware, certainly, that I have reasons & you're aware that I've stated them.

Yet, I have put more $$ into stocks. Why? Because I thought they were likely to go up.

Now, I'm not angling to be included among those "very smart money manager" you mentioned -- believe me! But all the same, my case demonstrates that you don't need to "agree with the decisions that Trump has made so far" or think he "has some... idea what he is doing" in order to put $$ into stocks.

IOW, the market going up is not evidence that money managers agree w/ Trump or think he's good at his job. Above all, the market going up is not evidence that either his decisions or his performance has been good.

As to the new tax bill, whether it is good or bad for the economy, or for our society, is an empirical question -- a set of them, actually -- which will be answered in time.

In any case, however, "good for the economy" does not equal "causes the market to rise" or vice versa. Sometimes, things that are good for the economy cause the market to rise, sometimes not. Sometimes the market rising is good for the economy, sometimes not.

Fair enough, payitforward. I'll just point out that this new upward trajectory of the stock market happened literally the exact day of Trump's election and has continued relentlessly upward ever since. You may choose to believe that is 100% coincidental. I don't.

Did I say that?

For whatever reasons -- sometimes it's just some big "change," something unexpected -- people believed that his election would mean stock prices would rise. B/c they believed it & backed that belief by buying stocks, they did go up. & still are.

This is not "coincidence" & it's not complicated either. But it's not "causation" -- i.e. Trump didn't strike a rock & water gushed forth!

Nor -- given your exact point -- was it a matter of an "improved economy" sparking a rise in the Dow. The economy didn't improve the day he was elected! Nor, for that matter, has the economy improved in any meaningful way since -- Presidents can't go "pouf" & magically there's more economic growth!

Look at a graph of the Dow long-term. There's nothing unusual going on.

[payitforward]

...
Because what is the end game anyway??? Lets assume D's get their way and flood the united states with so much immigration that it keep them in power and gives them the house and senate? What the end game? More regulations? more jobs overseas? higher taxes so large corps pull all of their money back out of the US? Higher taxes for everyone to pay for more and more socialism? I just dont see the end game here? Not with an economy that i would trust my future and my children's future. Sounds like a massive depression that would make the Obama depression look like heaven.

My God you are an idiot! Wow. Just wow....

[stilldropin20]

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Holy crap! K
Im exhausted from all the winning!!

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[stilldropin20]

there you go. Now you know why so much mainstream media is against Trump.

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[cammac]

I try to look at things objectively at both sides of the American political spectrum and try to rule out the absurdity of the Trump administration.
The Republicans have historically been a small federal government party, strong military and fiscally conservative.

Looking at debt as a % of GDP in the modern Presidents Bush 43 was the leader with Obama & Reagan in a virtual tie and Bush 41 and Ford all running deficits. JFK,LBJ, Carter, Nixon & Clinton all running surpluses.

I'm not even going to argue the obvious that most of the Obama's deficit was a direct result of the collapse of the American Economy under Bush 43.
As a guardians of fiscal integrity the Republicans have been a abysmal failure.

Compared the other English speaking Democracies Canada, Australia, UK and NZ run about 20% as civil servants while the USA is about 17.8%. Sounds great doesn't it Republicans must be doing there job! Not so fast in all those other nations healthcare worker are part of the civil service. It is estimated 9% of workers are involved healthcare and 21% are for profit then the civil servants are both about equal in all English speaking Democracies.

Tax Burden as a % of GDP Australia 26%, Canada 31%, NZ 32%, UK 36% & USA 39% and all the other 4 have universal healthcare.

Military spending! Lets be honest the USA has the strongest military in the world and has its fingers in almost every region of the world. But it is by far the most costly military in the world. The USA spends more than the next 9 countries in the world and with about 15% increase in the military spending scheduled.

I think that the Republicans as a group as smart people but much of that intelligence is negated by influential rump of Neo-Luddism who are anti science and religious fundamentalism.

Overall I give the Republican Party very low marks in achieving the objectives of there prime characteristics.

Will do Democrats tomorrow!

[cammac]

In the Summer of 2015, Dutch intelligence services were the first to alert their American counterparts about the cyberintrusion of the Democratic National Committee by Cozy Bear, a hacking group believed to be tied to the Russian government. Intelligence hackers from Dutch AIVD (General Intelligence and Security Service) had penetrated the Cozy Bear computer servers as well as a security camera at the entrance of their working space, located in a university building adjacent to the Red Square in Moscow

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/1/25/1736024/-Dutch-Intelligence-Hacked-Into-Cozy-Bear-And-Warned-The-FBI

[cammac]

More Trumpster Administration incompetence re: Voter Fraud!
[tweet]Among a bevy of personal information that, according to a statement on the website, was intended to be public, the Kansas Secretary of State’s website was exposing the last four digits of Social Security numbers (known as SSN4) of thousands of current and former candidates for office, as well as thousands, or potentially tens of thousands, of high-ranking state employees at apparently every Kansas government agency.[/tweet]

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/1/25/1735959/-KS-Sec-of-State-becomes-laughingstock-again-after-leaking-sensitive-voter-info-including-his-own

[gtn130]

That you are quoting G Elliot Morris to say the Ds haven't moved as far left as the Rs have moved right just proves my point.

Sorry, man, that's a pretty weak response. His conclusion is one that everyone else has already arrived at. It was a short, visual way of presenting it on a message board.

You can see the same thing here, here, here, and here.

The GOP over the last ~20 years has gone far to the right, whereas Democrats only moved slightly to the left. You may not like hearing that, but it's true. If you want to verify that yourself, go watch Fox News for 15 minutes.

You can same-sides things all you want, but you'll keep being wrong.

Sad that you missed the point of the post - its at the end. Paraphrasing Bill Clinton: Its sustainability stupid and the Ds have gone further left and the Rs further right leading to the same end.

The Atlantic, Pew, et. al. measured the wrong metric. And especially Morris who can see the forest for the trees. Edit: What he fails to point out is that most of the country is where neither of the party crosses - I think he knows but cares not to mention.

No, this is just you moving the goal posts.

[dckingsfan]

Sorry, man, that's a pretty weak response. His conclusion is one that everyone else has already arrived at. It was a short, visual way of presenting it on a message board.

You can see the same thing here, here, here, and here.

The GOP over the last ~20 years has gone far to the right, whereas Democrats only moved slightly to the left. You may not like hearing that, but it's true. If you want to verify that yourself, go watch Fox News for 15 minutes.

You can same-sides things all you want, but you'll keep being wrong.

Sad that you missed the point of the post - its at the end. Paraphrasing Bill Clinton: Its sustainability stupid and the Ds have gone further left and the Rs further right leading to the same end.

The Atlantic, Pew, et. al. measured the wrong metric. And especially Morris who can see the forest for the trees. Edit: What he fails to point out is that most of the country is where neither of the party crosses - I think he knows but cares not to mention.

No, this is just you moving the goal posts.

You are right - I am. If your point is that both Ds are Rs are moving left and right but that the right is moving faster - I don't care. The middle ground where the voters are a majority are and the charts show that both the Ds and Rs have ceded that ground. Add to that - neither the Rs or Ds could govern their way out of a wet paper bag at this time - and there you have it.

Goal posts are firmly moved. If one side can actually show the can govern and create a sustainable government - then I am in. Until that time, I am not just going to be a sheep following. And more and more Americans are trending that way - go figure.

[cammac]

A enlightened Republican for Senator In Missouri?

I want daughters to have their own intelligence, their own dignity, their own workspace and their own degrees; I want them to build home based enterprises and live in homes shared with good husbands and I don’t want them to grow into career obsessed banshees who forego home life and children and the happiness of family to become nail-biting manaphobic hell-bent feminist she devils who shriek from the tops of a thousand tall buildings they are think they could have leaped over in a single bound—had men not “suppressing them.” It’s just nuts. I always was.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/1/25/1735889/-Missouri-neanderthal-man-running-for-U-S-Senate-vows-to-stand-up-to-manaphobic-she-devil-feminism

[Wizardspride]

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[gtn130]

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This all seems very much normal and above board to me. Nothing to see here. Move along, folks

[closg00]

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Holy crap! K
Im exhausted from all the winning!!

Sent from my SM-N920T using RealGM mobile app

What an idiot! They have zero respect for him but will be polite because he is so dangerous. What a stupid thing for him to say