KIDD FIRED - Hughes/Grgurich also fired - Vin Baker Hired

[skones]

Since you added more I will respond again.

I think it is much more plausible that Kidd and Thorn were running the show. You say he was on thin ice but I don’t think Kidd ever believed that. From every report I read, he acted like a belligerent entitled child right up to the minute he was fired. And in all actuality it didn’t stop when he was fired because he tried to drag Giannis and the organization down with him.

I absolutely believe that Horst learned the way to survive from Hammond was to be the the ultimate yes man.

What Kidd "believes" does not matter, at all. Reality and beliefs are different things as proven by, well, him being fired.

[hege53190]

\

You are ignoring other people who have jobs. Hammond, the GM left. It was a GM search not "replace everyone in basketball operations." Hammond was not the only guy working in that department. That's not how businesses work.

WTF are you talking about? You said the DJ Wilson pick was solely on Horst. I would say that it is more likely that Horst did not have the final say. His input while listened to was probably not even top 5 in importance in the room.

I am guessing he was acting like the glorified yes man that he was hired to be.

9 months later the guy has shanked one of the loudest and most belligerent voices in the room while also possibly ushering out the other voice between his and the owners.

You're talking about Kidd and Thorn being "in charge", when the guy who was hired to take over (and eventually fire your "in charge" guy) WAS IN THE BUILDING DOING HIS JOB that's what I'm talking about. This isn't that hard to follow.......

Yeah. Let’s just part ways because if you believe a consolation prize GM 1 month into his term is the only voice that matters there is no real arguing with you. It is like you haven’t paid attention to the Bucks at all for the last 3 decades.

[skones]

WTF are you talking about? You said the DJ Wilson pick was solely on Horst. I would say that it is more likely that Horst did not have the final say. His input while listened to was probably not even top 5 in importance in the room.

I am guessing he was acting like the glorified yes man that he was hired to be.

9 months later the guy has shanked one of the loudest and most belligerent voices in the room while also possibly ushering out the other voice between his and the owners.

You're talking about Kidd and Thorn being "in charge", when the guy who was hired to take over (and eventually fire your "in charge" guy) WAS IN THE BUILDING DOING HIS JOB that's what I'm talking about. This isn't that hard to follow.......

Yeah. Let’s just part ways because if you believe a consolation prize GM 1 month into his term is the only voice that matters there is no real arguing with you. It is like you haven’t paid attention to the Bucks at all for the last 3 decades.

I mean, I'd say you believing in some mercurial ascension to power, without having a heavy hand in any process prior, over the course of 7 months is far more ridiculous.

[JimmyTheKid]

Yeah there is never going to be a consensus on who to credit/blame for good/bad moves. And there really isn't a good way to decipher which move belongs to which guy.

For the longest time, the staunch anti-Kidd contingent blamed the DJ Wilson pick on Kidd because they found out Kidd and Thorn did a little last minute scouting. But that doesn't jive with the "Kidd had been basically stripped of power by that time" narrative. Kidd supposedly wanted to move on from Greg Monroe almost immediately. But I've seen him blamed for the Monroe signing. And Horst has been credited with the Bledsoe/Monroe deal despite Kidd reportedly wanting to move Monroe for the longest time.

During the botched GM search and Horst hire, most eviscerated the Bucks organization, often mocking Horst's resume, labeling him a puppet, myself included. But since the hated Jason Kidd was surprisingly fired mid season, now the organization must be on track and Jon Horst must be wielding his power? Eh, ok. If you say so.

There is too much guesswork here. Thats why I've been attempting, and failing miserably, to get folks to credit/blame THE ENTIRE ORGANIZATION for good/bad moves, instead of trying to tie most bad to Kidd and good to others. He's gone. Not coming back. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall during every trade/signing/draft pick meeting, but unfortunately none of us know, and are never going to know, how each move shook out behind closed doors.

[mlloyd10]

When Kidd took over - What coaches, under Drew, were retained?

[emunney]

When Kidd took over - What coaches, under Drew, were retained?

I think just Oppenheimer.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

You think it's weird to be held accountable for a very strong statement made on a radio show? Should at least be asked about what changed for him to allow him to stay in the two weeks between when he said that and when Kidd was fired.

What was the quote? Maybe I am misremembering it? I hear so many co-workers in different departments say "if so and so left I'm leaving, I'm not kidding. This place will go to hell without them, etc" Than so-so gets fired or leaves, the co-workers stays. As much as Terry loves Kidd, he probably realized he's making 1/2 million dollars to ride out the season. Players (and random people) stay stupid stuff on the radio, its not a contract or anything.

Honestly, it would be less honorable if Terry quit now on his teammates, than it would be to follow his random radio show promise and quit. Should we be pissed at Horst for firing Kidd despite his radio show praise of Kidd?

[emunney]

You think it's weird to be held accountable for a very strong statement made on a radio show? Should at least be asked about what changed for him to allow him to stay in the two weeks between when he said that and when Kidd was fired.

What was the quote? Maybe I am misremembering it? I hear so many co-workers in different departments say "if so and so left I'm leaving, I'm not kidding. This place will go to hell without them, etc" Than so-so gets fired or leaves, the co-workers stays. As much as Terry loves Kidd, he probably realized he's making 1/2 million dollars to ride out the season. Players (and random people) stay stupid stuff on the radio, its not a contract or anything.

Honestly, it would be less honorable if Terry quit now on his teammates, than it would be to follow his random radio show promise and quit. Should we be pissed at Horst for firing Kidd despite his radio show praise of Kidd?

The quote was, "If they're done with him, they're done with me." This is actually different from what was reported: "If Kidd is gone, so am I!" So there's more laxity in the actual statement than I thought there was based on what was reported.

It would definitely be fair to ask Horst what changed between his radio interview and this week, particularly considering he talked about the firing being *inevitable* after the fact.

As for your co-workers, I hope you make fun of them ruthlessly for their limp garbage.

[blazza18]

Vaughn is the player that confuses me. He looks like he can play if given the chance, if given permission to be confident. I'm not saying he's an All-Star in waiting, but when I see him get more than a token minute, he looks like he could contribute if given more of an opportunity. I'm just so confused as to way he NEVER plays. I'm curious if it was Kidd holding him down and that maybe Vaughn will get a little more run the rest of the season.

Who knows, maybe he really does stink, but he's shown enough flashes and actually had a few nice games to make me think that he can contribute at least a little.

Even more confusing given how long a leash Kidd gave to Thon. We'll see how minutes change over the next few months I guess.

Vaughn played 1000 minutes in his rookie season. Thon hit the 1000 career minute mark mid December-ish. I'm not sure what more you wanted here?

[FrieAaron]

Vaughn is the player that confuses me. He looks like he can play if given the chance, if given permission to be confident. I'm not saying he's an All-Star in waiting, but when I see him get more than a token minute, he looks like he could contribute if given more of an opportunity. I'm just so confused as to way he NEVER plays. I'm curious if it was Kidd holding him down and that maybe Vaughn will get a little more run the rest of the season.

Who knows, maybe he really does stink, but he's shown enough flashes and actually had a few nice games to make me think that he can contribute at least a little.

Even more confusing given how long a leash Kidd gave to Thon. We'll see how minutes change over the next few months I guess.

Vaughn played 1000 minutes in his rookie season. Thon hit the 1000 career minute mark mid December-ish. I'm not sure what more you wanted here?

I'm talking about this season's Thon compared to last season. Some of it I suppose is due to our depth at that position but even at times when there were other option Kidd showed remarkable patience with Thon compared to Vaughn's second year.

[M-C-G]

Even more confusing given how long a leash Kidd gave to Thon. We'll see how minutes change over the next few months I guess.

Vaughn played 1000 minutes in his rookie season. Thon hit the 1000 career minute mark mid December-ish. I'm not sure what more you wanted here?

I'm talking about this season's Thon compared to last season. Some of it I suppose is due to our depth at that position but even at times when there were other option Kidd showed remarkable patience with Thon compared to Vaughn's second year.

I'm beginning to think that Kidd was playing Thon to prove some type of point to LED/Horst, but let's be honest, it is very hard to know what Kidd was really thinking most of the time.

[LuessiT]

He deserves all of the blame just like any other GM would. Like I said, he was in the room the whole time. It wasn't a foreign situation.

And he relied on the work our scouting department did for another GM.

It's not another GM. The scouting department also worked for Jon Horst. He's not new. He's part of the same entity that directed and took feedback from that scouting department.

So you know for a fact that if Horst was in charge last year from the getgo all the way up to the draft, he would have hired the same scouts, given out the same philosophy, focussed on the same prospects, talked to the same agents and invited the same draftees for workouts? Is that what you are telling me?

[skones]

And he relied on the work our scouting department did for another GM.

It's not another GM. The scouting department also worked for Jon Horst. He's not new. He's part of the same entity that directed and took feedback from that scouting department.

So you know for a fact that if Horst was in charge last year from the getgo all the way up to the draft, he would have hired the same scouts, given out the same philosophy, focussed on the same prospects, talked to the same agents and invited the same draftees for workouts? Is that what you are telling me?

No, that's not at all what I'm saying because it's besides the point. Horst went from part of the team directing the scouting process, evaluation, and providing input, to the guy making the call on the results of the findings he was a part of directing.

You don't get a pass because you have a new title when you were part of the entire process that's the point. That's why this isn't a Hammond/Alexander situation. Hammond had been doing his scouting and evaluation for an entirely different team who was making their selection a full 28 picks later and then thrown into a situation where he was picking 8th. Very different.

[bizarro]

Somewhere in a distant realm...

[LuessiT]

You don't get a pass because you have a new title when you were part of the entire process.

And I've never said that.

[paulpressey25]

I forgot Frank Johnson was on the staff.

Also going to be interesting if they need that roster spot in two weeks and have to cut Jason Terry.

[Chapter29]

Yeah there is never going to be a consensus on who to credit/blame for good/bad moves. And there really isn't a good way to decipher which move belongs to which guy.

Yep. And many other things that we are not privy to.

[milwaukee bunks]

Vaughn is the player that confuses me. He looks like he can play if given the chance, if given permission to be confident. I'm not saying he's an All-Star in waiting, but when I see him get more than a token minute, he looks like he could contribute if given more of an opportunity. I'm just so confused as to way he NEVER plays. I'm curious if it was Kidd holding him down and that maybe Vaughn will get a little more run the rest of the season.

Who knows, maybe he really does stink, but he's shown enough flashes and actually had a few nice games to make me think that he can contribute at least a little.

Even more confusing given how long a leash Kidd gave to Thon. We'll see how minutes change over the next few months I guess.

maybe at this point it has something to do with us not picking up his option this summer. i could see the coaching staff not wanting to give him run with a team he more than likely won't be on next year? if he did play good and develop we most likely lose him for nothing anyways.

[Baddy Chuck]

Thats why I've been attempting, and failing miserably, to get folks to credit/blame THE ENTIRE ORGANIZATION for good/bad moves, instead of trying to tie most bad to Kidd and good to others.

Huh? Pretty much this entire board has been blaming everyone from the top down for everything for a while now. From Kidd, to the billionaires (with a b), to the savant that got away, to the fedex employee.

Trying to act like YOU have been the morale barometer here is hilarious. You've been swallowing up anything they've thrown out and have been pushing the "they know best" narrative for as long as I can remember.

[Black_Dragon]

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