What is Devin Booker's Ceiling?

[azcatz11]

The Brooklyn pick and the Cleveland pick + a Cedi Osman.

As for contracts, the Suns unload Chandler for Frye for instance since he's an expiring.

So, it'd be something like:

PHX gets: Brooklyn pick, Cleveland pick, Cedi Osman, Channing Frye
CLE gets: Devin Booker and Tyson Chandler.

I'd pull the trigger on this.

If this was a top 3 protected I think it would be equal value. I think lower lottery & it's an easy no go for the Suns

Top 3 protected? You mean trade doesn't take place unless Brooklyn's pick lands top 3?

Yup exactly

[ChuckChilly]

Mitch Richmond

[bulliedog8]

Top 5-10 player in the league when he is in that 26-30 range.

Has to compete with Lauri, etc.

wait what?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Where ever you would rank a rich mans prime dirk, thats where lauri will be. Gonna be fun to see.

[HoopsMalone]

Never happen of course, but Suns FO calls the Hornets and says..."We'll trade you Devin Booker for Kemba Walker straight up". Charlotte FO calls HoopsMalone and says..."Can we trade Kemba Walker for Devin Booker? It's your call buddy"

Then you say to the Hornets FO- "_____ __________ ______"

We're waiting, for the record

RIght now they are world's apart. Booker wouldn't be in the same hemisphere as Kemba Walker who is a top ~25 player in the league.

There's not a ton of context so I'll just say for the next 4 years since that's a decent estimate of contract length I'd take Kemba. His knees are deteriorating and Kemba is a player who depends a lot of athleticism so I'll concede it's possible that Booker could be the better player in 4-5 years. But Kemba has such a stranglehold over the next 2-3 that banking those Kemba years now just makes a lot more sense.

Kemba is easily the better offensive AND defensive player.

So if I understand you correctly, you would tell the the Hornets to say "no we will pass" on a straight Walker for Booker trade tomorrow.

Correct?

That's a slightly different question since we'd have team control via RFA over Booker for the next 5 years and Kemba only has 1.5 years left on a deal that can not realistically be extended.

I'd be forced to consider it since Booker will really help us tank this year for a good pick. But I think Booker will be huge negative value on his next contract so ultimately I'd decline the deal. I'd prefer a draft pick or better young prospect like Anunoby

[Pelly24]

19.1 PER, .571 true shooting isn't Elite efficiency

Being +2 on league average efficiency is excellent, especially at age 20. He's an elite scorer, and will be at least a perennial all star

There is a big, big difference between having elite efficiency and being +2% higher than league average at age 20. You throw the word 'elite' around a lot, and that's usually the top of the top, which is why its been commented on a few times. Booker is not elite at anything right now or he'd be heralded as a superstar. He has the potential, and this season is a massive step forward for him, but calling him elite at anything based on the belief that improvement will continue is counting chickens.

I wouldnt mind you valuing him like that in terms of trade value - reasonable to assume improvements will still happen - but he is point blank not elite efficiency wise or an elite scorer right now. Still has a long ways to go before he gets in the Curry/KD/LeBron/Giannis/Harden level of scoring. To be clear though, if I had to bet, I think he absolutely will get there in there in time.

Maybe. What i really mean is, he already has very good efficiency even though he's being heavily guarded every night on an awful team. The TS% for his team is 54%, putting it a bit below average, and I'm pretty sure there isn't a solid second option on the squad—and I'm not sure he's got a great coach. Sure the coach is fine, but not sure. He's putting up 25 a game on 57 TS%. Imagine him on a squad like Boston, or even a team where he had less attention on him from night to night? I


So, elite efficiency isn't right, but he's definitely an elite scorer. KD/Curry/LeBron/Giannis aren't the only elite scorers, and calling them "elite" scorers is underselling them. Curry is the most potent scorer ever maybe. LeBron has 30,000 points and KD is a 4-time scoring champ. Giannis is a freak (but can't shoot, so will be limited to some extent in the playoffs, even on a good team) and will likely average 28 ppg for his career. So, he's not in that group, but that's a historically great group. If this were the 2000s and people still played 37 mpg >>> on the regular, he'd be putting up 27-28 ppg. He's in that Ray Allen/Paul Pierce/Dame Lillard/Vince Carter class of scoring already. That's elite to me.

So i think

[HoopsMalone]

Not nearly as high as everyone thinks. He doesn't look likely to ever be an adequate defender. And I'm not sure he's skilled enough to be a kyrie/kemba/lillard type offensive player.

He needs to convert to PG to become less of a defensive liability.

Top 50-75 player for a few years is probably his ceiling but Im not sure he ever cracks top 100.

While I agree with your opening statement, to claim he’s not currently a top 100 player is somewhat ridiculous. 25.0 ppg on above average efficiency is worth something and not easy to find in an NBA player, especially with defense keying on you. Not being a black hole is another as he’s become a greatly improved facilitator this season. He’s a top 50 player at worst right now and you don’t even have that as his projected peak.

Melo was never an adequate defender and he was a top 10 player at his peak. Lillard, Irving, Thomas, Derozan, Love. There have been lots of utterly terrible defenders who have become top 30 players or better. You can hide one poor perimeter defender and still be a contender.

You're underestimating how terrible Booker is defensively. He's not world's apart from IT on that end.

[HoopsMalone]

He's getting 25/4/4 on elite efficiency on an awful team. I think he's 21.

What's his ceiling? Can he be a top 10 player? Top 20? MVP Candidate? All NBA?

He's got a nice jumper, is a good athlete with great size and an awesome first step, good body control, etc. He's also a potentially great passer if you pay attention

57% TS is not elite efficiency.

It’s much higher than Paul George, Russel Westbrook, Bradley Beal, Kristaps Porzingis, John Wall and LaMarcus Alrdige‘s TS%.

And those are all guys who were voted into the All Star game.

George and Porzingis are standout defensive players, Westbrook is an offensive terror, Aldridge has always been overrated, and Beal and Wall were atrocious, non-sensical all star selections.

[RaptorsLife]

57% TS is not elite efficiency.

It’s much higher than Paul George, Russel Westbrook, Bradley Beal, Kristaps Porzingis, John Wall and LaMarcus Alrdige‘s TS%.

And those are all guys who were voted into the All Star game.

George and Porzingis are standout defensive players, Westbrook is an offensive terror, Aldridge has always been overrated, and Beal and Wall were atrocious, non-sensical all star selections.

Kristaps a standout a defender? hahaha

[The_Hater]

Not nearly as high as everyone thinks. He doesn't look likely to ever be an adequate defender. And I'm not sure he's skilled enough to be a kyrie/kemba/lillard type offensive player.

He needs to convert to PG to become less of a defensive liability.

Top 50-75 player for a few years is probably his ceiling but Im not sure he ever cracks top 100.

While I agree with your opening statement, to claim he’s not currently a top 100 player is somewhat ridiculous. 25.0 ppg on above average efficiency is worth something and not easy to find in an NBA player, especially with defense keying on you. Not being a black hole is another as he’s become a greatly improved facilitator this season. He’s a top 50 player at worst right now and you don’t even have that as his projected peak.

Melo was never an adequate defender and he was a top 10 player at his peak. Lillard, Irving, Thomas, Derozan, Love. There have been lots of utterly terrible defenders who have become top 30 players or better. You can hide one poor perimeter defender and still be a contender.

You're underestimating how terrible Booker is defensively. He's not world's apart from IT on that end.

He could be the worst defensive player in the league and he’s still not even close the 100th best player in the league like you claim.

Defense and offense is not a 50/50 split in value for star players. Not even close. They have the ball in their hands far more than their teammates, and that carries a huge value to their team, and coaches can hide them on defense by having them guard the weakest perimeter players. No different than all those poor defenders (yet all-stars) I listed in my previous post.

[HoopsMalone]

Spoiler:

He could be the worst defensive player in the league and he’s still not even close the 100th best player in the league like you claim.
.

That is 100% wholly inaccurate. I'm not interested in continuing this discussion with you until you approach the conversation with a basic analytical approach to the game.

Enjoy your third strike.

[Darth Celtic]

He could be the worst defensive player in the league and he’s still not even close the 100th best player in the league like you claim.
.

That is 100% wholly inaccurate. I'm not interested in continuing this discussion with you until you approach the conversation with a basic analytical approach to the game.

If offense and defense in the NBA were a 50/50 deal for rating a player's worth in winning basketball games, Marcus Smart would have been traded for Steph Curry straight up a long time ago. Stop trolling. Nobody can actually think that.

[HoopsMalone]

Defense and offense is not a 50/50 split in value for star players. Not even close. They have the ball in their hands far more than their teammates, and that carries a huge value to their team, and coaches can hide them on defense by having them guard the weakest perimeter players. No different than all those poor defenders (yet all-stars) I listed in my previous post.

I didn't claim it was a 50-50 split. But right now Booker's defense is offsetting the entire value of his offense. That's just the reality of the situation.

If Phoenix is going to play him at SG they need to find a defensive minded PG who is comfortable playing off the ball more. Someone like George Hill or Pat Beverley that would complement Booker's skills.

If they continue trotting out guys like Ulis they will continue getting blown out, period.

[King4Day]

Yes. If I can get out of this draft with Bagley and Doncic I'm doing it. I'm just not fully sold on Booker as that impactful of a player long term. It's a risk, but one I'm willing to take it.

What Cleveland picks? The Brooklyn one will probably be like the 8th pick and how do you dump contracts on Cleveland? They have nearly the biggest payroll in the league well over the cap.

The Brooklyn pick and the Cleveland pick + a Cedi Osman.

As for contracts, the Suns unload Chandler for Frye for instance since he's an expiring.

So, it'd be something like:

PHX gets: Brooklyn pick, Cleveland pick, Cedi Osman, Channing Frye
CLE gets: Devin Booker and Tyson Chandler.

I'd pull the trigger on this.

So much bad would come from that trade.
Phoenix would be banking on:

1. The player they get with the Nets pick is a future stud.
2. Free agents will accept that the franchise continues to not be able to make up its mind.
3. Fans not giving up on the team for giving away their franchise player for basically the hope in another lottery pick.

If Phoenix were to trade Booker right now, they would have to command a lot more. And if no team did it, the you deal with another 5 years of Booker which isn't a bad thing.

[HoopsMalone]

He could be the worst defensive player in the league and he’s still not even close the 100th best player in the league like you claim.
.

That is 100% wholly inaccurate. I'm not interested in continuing this discussion with you until you approach the conversation with a basic analytical approach to the game.

If offense and defense in the NBA were a 50/50 deal for rating a player's worth in winning basketball games, Marcus Smart would have been traded for Steph Curry straight up a long time ago. Stop trolling. Nobody can actually think that.

Steph Curry has an ENORMOUS impact on an offense. And a minor negative on defense as he can be hidden on a SG.

Marcus Smart is not a center. He really doesn't have a huge impact on the defensive side of the court. He's kinda like having a gold glove 3rd baseman or something. Kawhi Leonard would be like having a gold glove center fielder. Hassan Whiteside would be like having a CY young pitcher.

Once you start understanding the degree in which players impact games then you can start assigning their relative values. If you don't understand their impact then you'll just continue coming to wrong conclusions in your analysis.

[Boarder Patrol]

In the running for scoring champion for 5+ years in his prime, adequate enough in all other areas of the game that he's still an asset.

Could see him reaching on 30/5/5 with good shooting numbers and acceptable (not good or great) defense.

[macNcheese3]

he is/will be good and should improve. to say Harden, hell no.

[The_Hater]

He could be the worst defensive player in the league and he’s still not even close the 100th best player in the league like you claim.
.

That is 100% wholly inaccurate. I'm not interested in continuing this discussion with you until you approach the conversation with a basic analytical approach to the game.

I explained why this is the case analytically and you reply like a condescending jerk. Well done.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Per 36:
Player A @ 21 years old - 26 points, 4 assists, 4 rebounds @ 46/37/89
Player B @ 23 years old - 25 points, 5 assists, 4 rebounds @ 47/36/85

Spoiler:

Devin Booker, Phoenix Suns, 2018
James Harden, Houston Rockets, 2013

[The_Hater]

Defense and offense is not a 50/50 split in value for star players. Not even close. They have the ball in their hands far more than their teammates, and that carries a huge value to their team, and coaches can hide them on defense by having them guard the weakest perimeter players. No different than all those poor defenders (yet all-stars) I listed in my previous post.

I didn't claim it was a 50-50 split. But right now Booker's defense is offsetting the entire value of his offense. That's just the reality of the situation.

If Phoenix is going to play him at SG they need to find a defensive minded PG who is comfortable playing off the ball more. Someone like George Hill or Pat Beverley that would complement Booker's skills.

If they continue trotting out guys like Ulis they will continue getting blown out, period.

That’s a roster management problem, not a Devin Booker is a bad player problem.

[eyeatoma]

Top 5-10 player in the league when he is in that 26-30 range.

Has to compete with Lauri, etc.

wait what?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Where ever you would rank a rich mans prime dirk, thats where lauri will be. Gonna be fun to see.

Cool story bro