The ROTY/Rookie Discussion Thread, Part III

[TwoStarz]

It's crazy how good this year's draft class is, but what's really crazy is I have a feeling Fultz when he finally gets back is going to show as the best of the group, that's better than Tatum, Mitchell and the others.

With that jump shot? Nawwwwwe


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[steefP2]

Can someone tell me why the posters on RealGM overrate Donovan Mitchell?

If you look at any of the betting sites, Simmons is a huge favorite to win the rookie of the year award. It is not even close between him and Mitchell (and has been this way the entire season). Yet, on the RealGM polls, Mitchell is ahead of Simmons. I realize you pick two, but it is still strange that the overwhelming favorite is 2nd in a poll. I suspect that there are too many contrarians on this board that really overrates when an "underdog" performs well. Thoughts?

You cant compare the two. Betters say who they think WILL win. Realgm posters tell who they think SHOULD win.

[CoreyGallagher]

Perhaps who they think should win in the moment that they click on the thread, most voting surges happen after impressive performances, it happened today as well.

[LakersSoul]

Stephen A Smith is late but he is finally getting what us Lakers fans have known.

This kid is special.

Read on Twitter

[Cappy_Smurf]

Except, the question is "who wins". Also, it seems like you are implying that Mitchell is underrated if we just look at the numbers whereas Simmons is overrated. Why is this the case?

I'm implying no such thing. I think both players are fantastic and deserve to be in the discussion. I do believe that numbers don't always tell the whole story, and can be misleading at times.

As for the question who wins, nobody knows how the rest of the season will play out. You seem to want to be able to answer the question right now, but it's not possible. You also seem to be dismissing the opinion of fans on this board by implying betting odds somehow DO answer the question right now.

Simmons obviously has an all-around game that the league has seldom seen and is special as a player. Mitchell has an ability to score that also is seldom seen in a rookie. 1st rookie in 6 years to have a 40+ game and is in elite company in terms of 30 point games with 4 other players who were all #1 picks. He does that and yet also plays defense, which makes him even more rare as a player.

Finally, as to your assertion that betting sites are a better measure, think about this: Philly is a large market and has a lot more fans than Utah. A certain part of the voters on this site are homer votes, and then the rest are from fans of other teams who have no bias, and yet Mitchell is managing to keep up with Simmons for now. So as for your implication that the votes here are somehow flawed, if anything, they should be flawed in Simmons favor.

[clyde21]

[PhilBlackson]

It's crazy how good this year's draft class is, but what's really crazy is I have a feeling Fultz when he finally gets back is going to show as the best of the group, that's better than Tatum, Mitchell and the others.

You're right that is really crazy.

#notwiththatjumper

[711takeover]

To think the Celtics were close to having Mitchell and Tatum is insane

[Cappy_Smurf]

To think the Celtics were close to having Mitchell and Tatum is insane

Splain

[Kool_Name_Right]

After that game against the Bulls Simmons is showing all the haters why hes the clear leader for ROY.

This draft class is special..

[NPZ]

Stephen A Smith is late but he is finally getting what us Lakers fans have known.

This kid is special.]

On January 24th? Pff. Real insightful, there, Stephen Ass Smith. He's really going out on the limb here on January 24th after Kuzma's prior performance against the Celts. Laughable.

[NPZ]

Kuzma went 5-7 from 3 and just torched the Cs with his shooting and passing. In fact, I think Kuzma swished all 5 of his 3 pointers tonight, no rim job. 28/4/3 with ZERO turnovers. Flawless game.

Aw man, that's disappointing.

You're at realgm, dude, you gotta go to redtube for that.

The term "special" has jumped the shark like Arthur "The Fonz" Fonzarelli (with a leather jacket on). It's a poorly defined synonym for "good". Tired of hearing that used for so many players who aren't even superstars and don't project to be for a long time, if ever. I've heard the term used for Wiggins and Isiah T types. They're not all THAT special. The term is overused at this point. So is "woke" and "lit". Millennz, we need new catchphrases. Get on it!

Iono, to me....Mike Jeffrey Jordan was a special player. Otoh, Rolando Blackman was a very good player, but I wouldn't categorize him as "special". Mike was a special player. Special feels a lot less special the way it's used today. Maybe I'm gettin old. Excuse me while I go yell at the clouds.

[Goudelock]

Kuzma went 5-7 from 3 and just torched the Cs with his shooting and passing. In fact, I think Kuzma swished all 5 of his 3 pointers tonight, no rim job. 28/4/3 with ZERO turnovers. Flawless game.

Aw man, that's disappointing.

You're at realgm, dude, you gotta go to redtube for that.

The term "special" has jumped the shark like Arthur "The Fonz" Fonzarelli (with a leather jacket on). It's a poorly defined synonym for "good". Tired of hearing that used for so many players who aren't even superstars and don't project to be for a long time, if ever. I've heard the term used for Wiggins and Isiah T types. They're not all THAT special. The term is overused at this point. So is "woke" and "lit". Millennz, we need new catchphrases. Get on it!

Iono, to me....Mike Jeffrey Jordan was a special player. Otoh, Rolando Blackman was a very good player, but I wouldn't categorize him as "special". Mike was a special player. Special feels a lot less special the way it's used today. Maybe I'm gettin old. Excuse me while I go yell at the clouds.

Using the words "Woke" and "lit" to describe things other than wakefulness and the brightness of something should've been banned from human vocabulary after I heard Asian exchange students using those terms. And kudos for the Rolando Blackman mention. He's one of the more forgotten good players in NBA history.

To get more on topic, I think that everyone is overreacting to Kuzma's great game. Yeah, he was awesome against the Celtics, but before that he had hit the rookie wall and died for what seemed to be the last 3 weeks.

[711takeover]

To think the Celtics were close to having Mitchell and Tatum is insane

Splain

PM me for more details if interested. I'll try to answer your questions the best I can

[Cappy_Smurf]

To think the Celtics were close to having Mitchell and Tatum is insane

Splain

PM me for more details if interested. I'll try to answer your questions the best I can

That sounds like too much work. I suppose I'm ok with never knowing.

If I had to guess, you're probably going to tell me Utah almost traded DM in a Haywood S&T for Crowder or something, which I wouldn't buy anyway.

[711takeover]

Splain

PM me for more details if interested. I'll try to answer your questions the best I can

That sounds like too much work. I suppose I'm ok with never knowing.

If I had to guess, you're probably going to tell me Utah almost traded DM in a Haywood S&T for Crowder or something, which I wouldn't buy anyway.

Nope - not even close. I'll just leave it at they almost acquired the #12 pick on draft night

[Roy The Natural]

While he's not likely to blow anyone away right now, Zach Collins has in my view moved firmly out of the potential bust category into a safe floor of "rotation big" with upside for much more.

He was drafted as a pretty big project, and in summer league when it became obvious fairly quickly that he wasn't ready for the physicality of the NBA, it was worrisome. But he's consistently flashed scoring capability this year, and his defense has been solid. He's still not physically ready for the NBA, and gets pushed around at times, but he's now shooting 50% through January, and 39% from 3 through that span.

He's flashed fantastic footwork in the post, and he's shown patience on the offensive end as well. He's also been rebounding better as of late. For a player that looked like he was 2 years away from playing in preseason, having multiple flashes of being a very good player down the line, and having a positive impact this early can't be viewed as anything but a good sign.

[NBA Fan 1234]

While he's not likely to blow anyone away right now, Zach Collins has in my view moved firmly out of the potential bust category into a safe floor of "rotation big" with upside for much more.

He was drafted as a pretty big project, and in summer league when it became obvious fairly quickly that he wasn't ready for the physicality of the NBA, it was worrisome. But he's consistently flashed scoring capability this year, and his defense has been solid. He's still not physically ready for the NBA, and gets pushed around at times, but he's now shooting 50% through January, and 39% from 3 through the that span.

He's flashed fantastic footwork in the post, and he's shown patience on the offensive end as well. He's also been rebounding better as of late. For a player that looked like he was 2 years away from playing in preseason, having multiple flashes of being a very good player down the line, and having a positive impact this early can't be viewed as anything but a good sign.

LOVED him at Gonzaga. Can’t wait until he gets stronger because even now he doesn’t back down and plays stronger than his size.

[Roy The Natural]

While he's not likely to blow anyone away right now, Zach Collins has in my view moved firmly out of the potential bust category into a safe floor of "rotation big" with upside for much more.

He was drafted as a pretty big project, and in summer league when it became obvious fairly quickly that he wasn't ready for the physicality of the NBA, it was worrisome. But he's consistently flashed scoring capability this year, and his defense has been solid. He's still not physically ready for the NBA, and gets pushed around at times, but he's now shooting 50% through January, and 39% from 3 through the that span.

He's flashed fantastic footwork in the post, and he's shown patience on the offensive end as well. He's also been rebounding better as of late. For a player that looked like he was 2 years away from playing in preseason, having multiple flashes of being a very good player down the line, and having a positive impact this early can't be viewed as anything but a good sign.

LOVED him at Gonzaga. Can’t wait until he gets stronger because even now he doesn’t back down and plays stronger than his size.

I think his lack of strength is one of the biggest things holding him back right now from 10-12PPG. Right now, he's really only posting up maybe once a game when he gets a thinner 3, or even a 2 switched into him. If he's able to attain enough strength to consistently post nearly any 3, while continuing to shoot from various spots on the floor (especially 3) efficiently and with confidence than he's a safe start at the 4... And probably a safe bet for 12/7/2 or so within the next couple of years.

The thing that is really tantalizing is envisioning him getting strong enough to post up other 4s, and nails down his finishing through contact. In my opinion, if he can accomplish this, my view is that his upside is thrusts into the all-star/near all-star range. I'm convinced at this point that Collins defense is legit solid and his set jump shot Is translating.

In my view, you at worst have a guy who will stretch the floor and hit jump shots out on the corners and out of the pick and pop, and provide you with tough positional defense (even if he doesn't end up flashy with statistics like blocks).

What's really exciting though, is his work with his back to the basket, or even from a faceup. He often gets a clean look, with what at least appears to be a fundamentally sound release. I mean, Collin's post footwork really is gorgeous at times, especially for a 20 year old. He's leaving shots short when he's bumped hard on the block, and struggles to establish initial deep position right now though. If he gets strong enough to remedy those issues he's going to be able to get looks he wants inside of 12 or so feet with regularity. This makes him a threat inside and out, and a pretty damn potent and versatile weapon. If he isn't able to remedy this issues completely, he can still stretch the floor and play fundamentally sound defense goin forward. I really think he looks like an intriguing player going forward.

[LakersSoul]

After that game against the Bulls Simmons is showing all the haters why hes the clear leader for ROY.

This draft class is special..

2017 draft class is special but Simmons is NOT in from the 2017 draft class. I think you forgot Simmons is a rookie but from 2016 draft class.