Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5

[Hesh]

How about this simple trade -
Suns get-
Wes Mathews

Mavs get-
Brandon Knight
2018 Miami Pick

Mathews expires after next season so we would a ton of salary cap space, likely enough to get 2 max free agents. He'd add a shooter to our team, so maybe we can roll with Daniels and Booker starting or even just Mathews and Booker.

Man it sucks that we have to give up a pick just to unload Knight's contract. Being that we got the pick for Dragic too.

[Hesh]

[NavLDO]

Read on Twitter

"The goal is to win games"

"Can't see them making a significant move considering where they are in standings."

So let me get this straight, we are a horrible team (5th worst), but the goal is to win games.....and we expect that to happen by NOT making a significant trade?

Yeah, it would be funny if it wasn't so sad...this seemingly 'lala land' our leadership is living in. They don't want to be in the "driver's seat", assuring Kemba be on our team, and trade for him, so he can help us get better now. And the reasoning is, because we will have an opportunity to sign him in 16 months, when we have to compete with up to 29 other teams for his services, AND, since he won't already be on our team, we would be limited by Salary Cap rules as to how much we could offer.

Yet, if we trade for Kemba now, our young players likely develop faster, we get an edge in signing him based on him being here already, we have the advantage of signing him while going over the Salary Cap, again our team gets better, AND, with him here, and us being 'better' we likely have an advantage in luring talent here this summer.

Downside? Yeah, we'll have to take on a bad contract, and give something of value (Let's say Jordan is smart, and demands Warren,while we take MKG), which normally happens in a trade. But having...

Kemba / Booker / JJ / Bender / (Draft Pick or FA)

I believe JJ is full-on starter-ready by season's end, and Bender, as well, or close to it.

Not to mention, we end the season, say 38-44, instead of 27-55, or something like that. Point is, our players are better, our team is better, outside teams recognize that our team is getting better, and are on an upwards trajectory, instead of the bottom of the league...again.

"But, but, then we don't get a top 5 pick...we're doomed" the Tankers say. Yeah, well, that's true. But think of it as trading the #3 pick, the #14 pick from 2014 (Warren), the #8 pick from 2016 (Chriss), for an All-Star-level talent, and the 10th pick in the draft.

To me, that's worth it. Of course, I have no idea what the trade parameters would be, and Warren is pretty darn good, and Chriss is developing nicely, so Jordan should be happy with those pieces coming back.

[kennydorglas]

kyrie was an all-star in those sorry pre-LeBron teams

[Walt_Uoob]

Plan A:

-Buy out Monroe
-Subtle tank
-Draft a center and PG
-Max Boogie (Len walks)
-Sign/trade for a 3&D PG

-FA/Ulis/Rookie
-Booker/Daniels
-TJ/JJ
-Chriss/Bender
-Boogie/Tyson/Rookie

Adjust at the 1 and 4 positions if needed mid season with expiring contracts of Dudley/Chandler + possible picks.



Plan B

-Buy out Monroe
-Subtle tank
-Draft a center and PG
-Strike out on big name free agents
-Preserve cap space for 2019
-Sign Okafor...if not Okafor, reluctantly sign Len
-Ask Knight not to be a F-ing moron and focus on defense, catch and shoot, and passing.

-Knight/Ulis/Rookie
-Booker/Daniels
-TJ/JJ
-Chriss/Bender
-Okafor/Rookie/Tyson

Showcase Knight. then dangle Knight + expiring contracts of Dudley/Chandler + possible picks. Possibly include anyone not named Booker/TJ in a trade.

Even better if we can exchange assets (4 green houses) for a star (red hotel) WHILE keeping cap room in 2019.

Dig it but I'd rather get Noel than Okafor.

Don't want neither. Both are limited players and terrible, stupid persons. What does Okafor better than Monroe or what Noel does better than Len? And did you forget who is Noel's agent?

Oh dag I did forget he's a Rich Paul guy. Yeah nevermind.

[BobbieL]

Is Iman Shumpert worth the Kings pick at the top of the second round?

Suns can take Frye/Shumpert/Rose
Kings get an expiring Monroe
Cavs get Hill

I think I would rather have the cap space since the Suns already have a boat load of second round picks plus it uses 10m of cap space next year.

Read on Twitter

[King4Day]

Is Iman Shumpert worth the Kings pick at the top of the second round?

Suns can take Frye/Shumpert/Rose
Kings get an expiring Monroe
Cavs get Hill

I think I would rather have the cap space since the Suns already have a boat load of second round picks plus it uses 10m of cap space next year.

Read on Twitter

I'd say no (unless we're offloading one of our bad contracts too).

The key thing I notice from that is that Rose may be in that deal. If that's the case, I assume he'll be bought out. If so, how would people feel about acquiring him for the vet min? Or is he to much a ball hogging PG to take a chance on?

[Cutter]

Read on Twitter

"The goal is to win games"

"Can't see them making a significant move considering where they are in standings."

So let me get this straight, we are a horrible team (5th worst), but the goal is to win games.....and we expect that to happen by NOT making a significant trade?

Yeah, it would be funny if it wasn't so sad...this seemingly 'lala land' our leadership is living in. They don't want to be in the "driver's seat", assuring Kemba be on our team, and trade for him, so he can help us get better now. And the reasoning is, because we will have an opportunity to sign him in 16 months, when we have to compete with up to 29 other teams for his services, AND, since he won't already be on our team, we would be limited by Salary Cap rules as to how much we could offer.

Yet, if we trade for Kemba now, our young players likely develop faster, we get an edge in signing him based on him being here already, we have the advantage of signing him while going over the Salary Cap, again our team gets better, AND, with him here, and us being 'better' we likely have an advantage in luring talent here this summer.

Downside? Yeah, we'll have to take on a bad contract, and give something of value (Let's say Jordan is smart, and demands Warren,while we take MKG), which normally happens in a trade. But having...

Kemba / Booker / JJ / Bender / (Draft Pick or FA)

I believe JJ is full-on starter-ready by season's end, and Bender, as well, or close to it.

Not to mention, we end the season, say 38-44, instead of 27-55, or something like that. Point is, our players are better, our team is better, outside teams recognize that our team is getting better, and are on an upwards trajectory, instead of the bottom of the league...again.

"But, but, then we don't get a top 5 pick...we're doomed" the Tankers say. Yeah, well, that's true. But think of it as trading the #3 pick, the #14 pick from 2014 (Warren), the #8 pick from 2016 (Chriss), for an All-Star-level talent, and the 10th pick in the draft.

To me, that's worth it. Of course, I have no idea what the trade parameters would be, and Warren is pretty darn good, and Chriss is developing nicely, so Jordan should be happy with those pieces coming back.

And1 makes perfect sense to me.....I agree. The concept of intentionally being bad to get a high pick is flawed on so many levels (as you just pointed out) people either get it or they don't. I would LOVE to get a high Top 3 pick, I would be walking on clouds for days. However I am a team fan, not a player fan, and when we deliberately hurt the team in order to get a specific 18 year old player in the draft.....I object to that strategy. I object to that strategy because it doesn't work IMO.

[RunDogGun]

I still think if we trade our pick, we put at least a top 3 protection on it for two years, and then unprotected. Then trade the Miami and all our second rounders if we are getting a higher tier player in a trade. I’d hate to move our pick, even it was in the eighth spot, and that be the year it goes number one in the lottery.

[RodyTur10]

Those guys don't have any trade value. Booker and our first would be the minimum, and some other team would beat it. Probably the Celtics with Tatum, Brown and the Lakers or Kings first. That leaves them with Kyrie, Hayward and Horford...and Marcus Morris!...along with Kawhi.

But Pop would love Tatum and Brown who are both long two way players.

Don't think Celtics would part ways with Tatum AND Brown, along with the pick(s).


Tatum and Brown on rookie contracts playing the way they are, giving Celtics DEPTH, flexibility and FUTURE.

Arguably, when Hayward comes back, having Tatum and Brown makes them BETTER because of the DEPTH.... those 2 are producing very well on great contracts, which allows Celtics to make more DEPTH moves or aim for flexibility.

Maybe. Against GS I'd rather have Kawhi right now than Brown, Tatum and the unknown future guy. And I imagine they'd have Kawhi for the next 10 years. I think Kawhi with Kyrie and Hayward the next four years gives them a team in the east that would be tough to beat for the next decade. They are good now, and maybe a finals team, but when you can consolidate a couple good young guys and a pick for a top 5 player I think you should. In their case they wouldn't be cleaning out the cupboards either given who else they would still have plus the Memphis pick.

I don't think that the Celtics are in a position to make more big moves. Yes, they have the assets, but the luxury tax is coming.

Hayward and Horford both earn around 30 million a year, Irving will demand a new max in 2019, which sums up to about 100 million in salary. If you would also have Leonard on the roster that adds another max in 2019 (no way you can justify letting him walk after you traded three highly valuable pieces (Brown, Tatum, Lak/Sac pick) for him). Together that makes a payroll that will go to 150-160 million if you only added rookie contracts and minimum contracts. That's very costly which I can't see happening with taxes coming in so severely.

The Celtics have their big three set with Irving, Hayward and Horford. Although Ainge hasn't been shy (to say the least) to trade beloved players I really can't see one of them to go. Irving is clearly one of the best PG's in the league (and only 25 years old), no reason not to be content with him. Trading Hayward when he just signed this summer (by leaving a good organization like the Jazz), while he's recovering from a gruesome injury would be so cruel and immoral that even Ainge would not consider it.

Then Horford, he's voted an All Star, but he isn't really an elite big man. However, he fits well in the Celtic's system and if you traded him you would want a big back (considering the roster construction) and I don't see a superstar big that is available, clearly better and a good fit for Stevens. Neither Embiid, Jokic, Porzingis or Towns will be for sale. Of course there's always speculation of a Hail Mary offer for Anthony Davis, but I don't think New Orleans will give up with him just yet. Also a good thing about Horford's contract is that it will end the same year that Brown is up for a new contract.

In short the Celtics are done with big moves. They now have to be shrewd in making good deals with role players. Smart (2018) and Rozier (2019) are up for new deals. They have to decide which one to keep and make sure they don't overpay. Furthermore they have to explore the veteran market (like Golden State, San Antonio, Houston and Cleveland have done) to get more depth on the team. The (likely) KIngs' pick can be gold, but trading it isn't a logical option, since they can't add a lot more salary.

[bwgood77]

Don't think Celtics would part ways with Tatum AND Brown, along with the pick(s).


Tatum and Brown on rookie contracts playing the way they are, giving Celtics DEPTH, flexibility and FUTURE.

Arguably, when Hayward comes back, having Tatum and Brown makes them BETTER because of the DEPTH.... those 2 are producing very well on great contracts, which allows Celtics to make more DEPTH moves or aim for flexibility.

Maybe. Against GS I'd rather have Kawhi right now than Brown, Tatum and the unknown future guy. And I imagine they'd have Kawhi for the next 10 years. I think Kawhi with Kyrie and Hayward the next four years gives them a team in the east that would be tough to beat for the next decade. They are good now, and maybe a finals team, but when you can consolidate a couple good young guys and a pick for a top 5 player I think you should. In their case they wouldn't be cleaning out the cupboards either given who else they would still have plus the Memphis pick.

I don't think that the Celtics are in a position to make more big moves. Yes, they have the assets, but the luxury tax is coming.

Hayward and Horford both earn around 30 million a year, Irving will demand a new max in 2019, which sums up to about 100 million in salary. If you would also have Leonard on the roster that adds another max in 2019 (no way you can justify letting him walk after you traded three highly valuable pieces (Brown, Tatum, Lak/Sac pick) for him). Together that makes a payroll that will go to 150-160 million if you only added rookie contracts and minimum contracts. That's very costly which I can't see happening with taxes coming in so severely.

The Celtics have their big three set with Irving, Hayward and Horford. Although Ainge hasn't been shy (to say the least) to trade beloved players I really can't see one of them to go. Irving is clearly one of the best PG's in the league (and only 25 years old), no reason not to be content with him. Trading Hayward when he just signed this summer (by leaving a good organization like the Jazz), while he's recovering from a gruesome injury would be so cruel and immoral that even Ainge would not consider it.

Then Horford, he's voted an All Star, but he isn't really an elite big man. However, he fits well in the Celtic's system and if you traded him you would want a big back (considering the roster construction) and I don't see a superstar big that is available, clearly better and a good fit for Stevens. Neither Embiid, Jokic, Porzingis or Towns will be for sale. Of course there's always speculation of a Hail Mary offer for Anthony Davis, but I don't think New Orleans will give up with him just yet. Also a good thing about Horford's contract is that it will end the same year that Brown is up for a new contract.

In short the Celtics are done with big moves. They now have to be shrewd in making good deals with role players. Smart (2018) and Rozier (2019) are up for new deals. They have to decide which one to keep and make sure they don't overpay. Furthermore they have to explore the veteran market (like Golden State, San Antonio, Houston and Cleveland have done) to get more depth on the team. The (likely) KIngs' pick can be gold, but trading it isn't a logical option, since they can't add a lot more salary.

That makes sense in regards to cap space. I hadn't thought about that. If there was no cap or luxury tax and all that I think it's a move they probably make considering he is still young and a top 5 player. I'd still likely consider it and perhaps letting Horford walk next year or trade if he picks up his option and fill in with a cheaper big, but it might not make sense to do so considering that would basically mean you are swapping him out in addition to Tatum/Brown and the pick and that's where it gets to too much sacrifice of depth and talent.

[BobbieL]

Sam Amico - not sure how reliable - probably more Kyler, Jordan Schultz - but anyway

Faried and Mudiay available

Monroe for both would work and give cap space
but I would prefer Chandler for Faried Mudiay

or maybe just the Suns second rounder for Mudiay

Read on Twitter

[Kerrsed]

Read on Twitter

One thing i dont miss about Dragic, such a lil' whiner.

C'mon man! Are you trying to say you had a better season than Wall/Oladipo/Beal/Lowery ??? 17/5/4 with a PER of 16 isnt setting the world on fire and doesnt make you a shoe in.

You want to be an all-star? Then put in the hard work and be the best player you can be and if you really have the skills and talent, then you will be playing in that game. Yeah, having a great season on a bad team doesnt make you an all-star, just like having a mediocre season on a great team doesnt.

Quit crying.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Sam Amico - not sure how reliable - probably more Kyler, Jordan Schultz - but anyway

Faried and Mudiay available

Monroe for both would work and give cap space
but I would prefer Chandler for Faried Mudiay

or maybe just the Suns second rounder for Mudiay

Read on Twitter

Not willing to take them on for Monroe, but would send Chandler - save them $3 million - or maybe Dudley - save them $6 and give them a useful player. For the latter, I would want some future draft assets in exchange - nothing big, maybe just a second or two, or if we could swing it, exchange our bucket of seconds for a future first. Or maybe Chandler and Dudley for Mudiay, Faried and Plumlee - but even then, I'd want draft assets in return - saves them $7 mil next season, and one can only expect that when Milsap returns, Plumlee becomes a mere Jokic backup. Pricey backup @ $14 mil per. Not sure I'd do it.

There are options. I mentioned versions of a trade with Minny a few days ago that I thought made sense. IDK.

[Qwigglez]

It will be very interesting to see if Kawhi request a trade this summer. He will be in his final year of his contract, so while he is a top 7-8 player in the league, you'd have to be worried to make a play for him in case he leaves anyway. I'd think he'd have far more value than what Paul George was able to net, though Victor Oladipo did make that trade more favorable for the Pacers IMO. I'm not sure we'd have the assets to make a deal unless we land a top 3 pick, but then as mentioned before he may just opt out and join a different team.
I did see something mentioned that he wouldn't take any discounts on his new contract, so he'd want the max value, and him going to another team he wouldn't make nearly as much, so there is incentive for him to stay on a new team that just traded for him. I know Kyrie mentioned the Spurs as a team he would want to play for, and I don't think it's because of the city I think it's mostly because of Kawhi. So maybe if we did trade for Kawhi over the summer, let's say we gave up everything besides Booker; which is probably, JJ, Bender, our top 3 pick (hopefully the Gods reward us since we aren't actually tanking and we just suck), the Bucks pick, and both Miami picks. Maybe Kyrie joins our squad in the summer of 2019, and we got ourselves a big three of Booker, Kawhi, and Kyrie.

Yes I know, very wishful thinking. But it's also that kind of ripple effect that can dynamically change your team (hopefully for the better). I mean, imagine had we traded for Kyrie last summer, we'd likely be a top destination this summer with Kyrie/Booker tagteam. Regardless, I'm completely off the Kemba bandwagon. I just don't think he changes our team very much. Maybe we win 8 more games, but I don't think he's the kind of player that attracts other stars. I haven't heard anyone mentioned they wanted to go to the Hornets. Mostly above average players that are grossly overpaid (Batum). They did offer Hayward that contract several summers ago that was matched by Utah, but I think Hayward knew he was going to be matched and was just using whatever team he could to land that contract.

[Kerrsed]

I wouldnt even take a shot on Mudiay and/or Faried by just giving up Monroes expiring. First off, Mudiay is trash. Even when given 30 minutes he still doesnt excel. He cant shoot and isnt a playmaker. Coming into the league people raved about his size and defensive abilities, but really all anyone has seen since is just his size. Faried reminds me of a PF version of Len. He can rebound and on occasion defend, but when it comes to putting the ball in the basket, be prepared to watch plenty of in-the-paint gimmies brick off the rim. He misses a shot, and quickly grabs the rebound, and misses a 2nd time and grabs that rebound as well. When you are only converting on 50% of your shots and they all happen within feet of the rim, thats pretty bad. Here is his shot chart for the season so far:



Yeah, thats not a PF, thats a pretty bad C that you cant play at C because he is only 6'8.

No thanks on either guy.

And the only player i have interest in when it comes to helping facilitate the Kings/Cavs deal is Skal. They were looking for someone to take him to create a roster space, i'd give up a 2nd round pick for him in a heartbeat.

[Frank Lee]

Again.... Why bother if you are not getting a player who fits in for the next 2-3 years, and I mean fits in as in contractually obligated without having to deal with FA bartering. Keep that cap space. Look around the league and you see many teams who got FA happy and crippled their flexibility. We are in a very good spot.

Just stand pat unless a smoking good deal falls in our lap. (isn't Skal a bit redundant?) No way would I deal our first pick, and Im real hesitant about moving Milw's/Miami's picks as they could be used to move up some or even land a decent PG prospect. This is our last year where being bad/abysmal could pay of. I really hope we can land one of Bagley/Ayton/Bamba/Jackson then follow it up with TBrown/Sexton/Milton/Duval/Shamat in those orders. Doncic and Porter are the wild cards that may alter this extremely
logical and economic plan It is imperative we get a top 5 pic, well... it would just make things so much easier. I really have no interest in Young. The length and speed of NBA will be a bothersome factor for him. No doubt the kid can crazy-chuck away, but we already have our mad bomber. I think Young has a dangerous down side...

I want length, D, attitude, and IQ. All of those later round PGs can shoot. I think the difference between the top 4 bigs and a late round big is much greater than the difference between Young and one of the late round PGs. Besides, like it or not, if Knight is still here (very likely) he will get every opportunity to lose the starting job.


PS... forgot about Skai G-A... he's in there too. I almost wish the season was over and we were into the combines

[BobbieL]

Sam Amico - not sure how reliable - probably more Kyler, Jordan Schultz - but anyway

Faried and Mudiay available

Monroe for both would work and give cap space
but I would prefer Chandler for Faried Mudiay

or maybe just the Suns second rounder for Mudiay

Read on Twitter

Not willing to take them on for Monroe, but would send Chandler - save them $3 million - or maybe Dudley - save them $6 and give them a useful player. For the latter, I would want some future draft assets in exchange - nothing big, maybe just a second or two, or if we could swing it, exchange our bucket of seconds for a future first. Or maybe Chandler and Dudley for Mudiay, Faried and Plumlee - but even then, I'd want draft assets in return - saves them $7 mil next season, and one can only expect that when Milsap returns, Plumlee becomes a mere Jokic backup. Pricey backup @ $14 mil per. Not sure I'd do it.

There are options. I mentioned versions of a trade with Minny a few days ago that I thought made sense. IDK.

What was your Minny trade - I didn't see it?

Mine is Chandler for Aldrich /Bjelica
and if Minney wants a three ball shooter like Daniels - add in brooks and some other 1.5m expiring

[Frank Lee]

is Bjelica that much of an upgrade over Bender and Chris ??

I think Chandler and Dudley will be much more valuable at next year's deadline

[rsavaj]

I just hope we get something for Monroe, even if it's a 2nd rounder. If we let him walk this summer and get nothing back, the Bled trade will look even worse.