1/23 - POSTGAME | Brooklyn Nets (108) - (109) Oklahoma City Thunder

[ThunderBolt]

Billy lives of the reputation of his perceived brilliance from two seasons ago. Yet he completely butchered the use of Taj Gibson last year in the playoffs. Many people, including myself, were disappointed that last year Adams didn’t make the jump we had expected because of what we saw in the playoffs against the warriors. Why can’t we hold Billy to the same standard?

[dakomish23]

Do you have a point? You claimed the role didn't exist pre-Melo, it certainly did.


What if I told you his efg% on pull ups is 43%? That's like having Deandre Liggins taking a shot, only worse because there's virtually no chance he gets to the line off of a pull-up.You're allowed to pass the ball if you don't have a good shot, you don't have to shoot bad shots after massaging the ball just because you have to get your shots up. I don't even know what you're arguing for, Melo himself said he needed to change.


I'll take Larry Nance for 2 million over Carmelo for 30+ any day even though Nance doesn't fit at all.

Who said the stretch 4 was made for Melo? The roles of the players weren’t defined. PG and Melo defined them.

What are you even saying? These roles were defined before they'd ever played a game here. Everyone with any sense knew exactly what Melo needed to do to be effective.

Your stat includes pull up 3’s when we’re talking about long 2’s.

And your stat included catch and shoot when we were talking about step backs.

PG is shooting 43% too on all pull-ups and takes 5.7 to Melo’s 6.5. Do you have a problem with his? What about Russ who takes 10.7 and makes 39%?

Uh, yes? Maybe you've missed the numerous threads where this has been discussed?

What do you want them to do? Drive to the hoop or kick it out with a few seconds left on the clock and heave a 3? You’re not realistic in your approach to an NBA offense.

Lol, we take the most pull ups in the NBA. Maybe you just watched the Knicks/Melo too long and forgot there were much better ways to run an offense. Nobody is complaining about pull ups with 2 seconds on the shot clock, but these were a vast minority of the shots.

19th in RPM makes him mediocre. You’d rather have the smaller salary.

What does that make Steven Adams then? He’s 22nd and Mejri is 11th. Youd rather have Menri right?

I'm on record as saying I don't think Adams is as good as others on this board. I think he's a top ten center and that's about it.

Cool. Let’s apply this elsewhere in the NBA. Dinwiddie 8th. Irving is 11th. BOS should ask BKN for a trade, right? WAS should def swap Wall for Dinwiddie since Wall is 18th.

Very sound logic.

Is Dinwiddie a number one option?

He shoots 6.8 catch and shoot (1.8 are 2’s per game), 6.5 pull-ups per game (5.5 are 2’s) & 3.2 are iso shots per game. This isolation, “massage the ball” basketball that you are trying to portray as the majority is only 20% of his FGA.

You probably think when watching GSW that all offenses have to look like that and ignore the level of weaponry they have.

Your words at first were “he’s 19th in RPM” as proof that he is mediocre.

You then brought up the salary difference with some one above him in RPM.

But when I bring up other examples following your logic, there’s more excuses.

[spearsy23]

Who said the stretch 4 was made for Melo? The roles of the players weren’t defined. PG and Melo defined them.

What are you even saying? These roles were defined before they'd ever played a game here. Everyone with any sense knew exactly what Melo needed to do to be effective.

Your stat includes pull up 3’s when we’re talking about long 2’s.

And your stat included catch and shoot when we were talking about step backs.

PG is shooting 43% too on all pull-ups and takes 5.7 to Melo’s 6.5. Do you have a problem with his? What about Russ who takes 10.7 and makes 39%?

Uh, yes? Maybe you've missed the numerous threads where this has been discussed?

What do you want them to do? Drive to the hoop or kick it out with a few seconds left on the clock and heave a 3? You’re not realistic in your approach to an NBA offense.

Lol, we take the most pull ups in the NBA. Maybe you just watched the Knicks/Melo too long and forgot there were much better ways to run an offense. Nobody is complaining about pull ups with 2 seconds on the shot clock, but these were a vast minority of the shots.

19th in RPM makes him mediocre. You’d rather have the smaller salary.

What does that make Steven Adams then? He’s 22nd and Mejri is 11th. Youd rather have Menri right?

I'm on record as saying I don't think Adams is as good as others on this board. I think he's a top ten center and that's about it.

Cool. Let’s apply this elsewhere in the NBA. Dinwiddie 8th. Irving is 11th. BOS should ask BKN for a trade, right? WAS should def swap Wall for Dinwiddie since Wall is 18th.

Very sound logic.

Is Dinwiddie a number one option?

He shoots 6.8 catch and shoot (1.8 are 2’s per game), 6.5 pull-ups per game (5.5 are 2’s) & 3.2 are iso shots per game. This isolation, “massage the ball” basketball that you are trying to portray as the majority is only 20% of his FGA.

That's still a significant portion of his shots and it was even larger earlier in the season (you do realize that the whole point of this discussion was that he's gotten a bunch of credit for his recent play?).

You probably think when watching GSW that all offenses have to look like that and ignore the level of weaponry they have.

No, I believe teams should avoid taking bad shots because even people who make them at a relatively good clip are inefficient. Hence Melo and Russ being below league average in true shooting. This problem is exacerbated when the player offers nothing else, for example Russ creates for others at a high rate, hence his ability to be an impact player even on low efficiency, early season Melo offered nothing outside of inefficient scoring hence him being awful.

Your words at first were “he’s 19th in RPM” as proof that he is mediocre.

You then brought up the salary difference with some one above him in RPM.

But when I bring up other examples following your logic, there’s more excuses.

I brought up salary differences of players in similar roles. Melo is not a first option or even a second option, John Wall is.

[Pillendreher]

i don't buy the 'sacrificing games' thing. maybe in 2015-16, that was tenable. but this year? the west is a close race and HCA is important. we're about as close to the 3rd seed spurs at the moment as we are to the 9th place clippers. sacrificing games for rotation experimentation doesn't seem like anything the thunder could abide by under the circumstances.

moreover, it just doesn't seem like experimenting to me. more like flailing. where is the 'experiment' to try dakari at center? where's the experiment to play the adams=patterson=george=roberson=westbrook lineup? what i see is a guy who is putting players out there according to what he views as matchup favorable, but limited in its scope by the exclusion of certain rotation structures. benching carmelo anthony and trying out patterson would be experimenting. bringing patterson in as the first big off the bench? that's experimenting. playing big-ball with the bench? experimenting. but we're 40+ games into the season and we're still seeing george-bench units that haven't worked all year.

Exactly. He's not 'experimenting'. He's just executing his personal 'vision' and for a lack of understanding, people claim he's trying things out when in fact he's just making trash decisions.

[dakomish23]

What are you even saying? These roles were defined before they'd ever played a game here. Everyone with any sense knew exactly what Melo needed to do to be effective.


And your stat included catch and shoot when we were talking about step backs.


Uh, yes? Maybe you've missed the numerous threads where this has been discussed?


Lol, we take the most pull ups in the NBA. Maybe you just watched the Knicks/Melo too long and forgot there were much better ways to run an offense. Nobody is complaining about pull ups with 2 seconds on the shot clock, but these were a vast minority of the shots.


I'm on record as saying I don't think Adams is as good as others on this board. I think he's a top ten center and that's about it.


Is Dinwiddie a number one option?

He shoots 6.8 catch and shoot (1.8 are 2’s per game), 6.5 pull-ups per game (5.5 are 2’s) & 3.2 are iso shots per game. This isolation, “massage the ball” basketball that you are trying to portray as the majority is only 20% of his FGA.

That's still a significant portion of his shots and it was even larger earlier in the season (you do realize that the whole point of this discussion was that he's gotten a bunch of credit for his recent play?).

You probably think when watching GSW that all offenses have to look like that and ignore the level of weaponry they have.

No, I believe teams should avoid taking bad shots because even people who make them at a relatively good clip are inefficient. Hence Melo and Russ being below league average in true shooting. This problem is exacerbated when the player offers nothing else, for example Russ creates for others at a high rate, hence his ability to be an impact player even on low efficiency, early season Melo offered nothing outside of inefficient scoring hence him being awful.

Your words at first were “he’s 19th in RPM” as proof that he is mediocre.

You then brought up the salary difference with some one above him in RPM.

But when I bring up other examples following your logic, there’s more excuses.

I brought up salary differences of players in similar roles. Melo is not a first option or even a second option, John Wall is.

It’s not significant when you are one of the better guys at it.

When did I see he contibuted across the board? We were talking about offensive possessions and not settling for long 2’s and you changed the topic

Speaking of changing the topic, you said “19h in RPM” makes him mediocre. Then you changed it to salary. Now it’s about what option they are. If a low RPM rating makes you mediocre, doesn’t the logic you used make it worse that you have a low score but are a 1 or 2 option?

[bbms]

Talking about first, second or bull option in 2018 environment...

[spearsy23]

It’s not significant when you are one of the better guys at it.

What? 20% is a significant portion of your offense no matter what type of shot you're talking about. The fact that he's one of the better guys at shooting bad shots doesnt mean he should keep taking them. They're still bad shots and still lead to inefficiency.

When did I see he contibuted across the board? We were talking about offensive possessions and not settling for long 2’s and you changed the topic

When did I say you said that? I pointed out that in addition to his awful shooting he was awful at everything else.

Speaking of changing the topic, you said “19h in RPM” makes him mediocre. Then you changed it to salary. Now it’s about what option they are. If a low RPM rating makes you mediocre, doesn’t the logic you used make it worse that you have a low score but are a 1 or 2 option?

This shows your fundamental misunderstanding of how rpm works and what it's attempting to measure.