Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV

[queridiculo]

Man, I'm having a feeling the Grunfeld is going to make a move for DeAndre Jordan.

It's the move that perfectly fits Grunfeld's MO, and Ernie's reluctant max player is going to be the key piece to get it done.

Seriously, sweetening the pot with our first and absolving himself from the Mahinmi mess in a fell swoop, it doesn't get more Grunfeld than that.

If EG can turn Mahinmi and filler (presumably Jason Smith) into DeAndre Jordan while sacrificing only one 1st round pick, I'd be just fine with it.

It's probably going to cost a pick to dump Mahinmi no matter what we do. If the player we get back is a legit top 7ish center, that that's a pretty good deal.

Oh no, I'm thinking more like Ernie packaging Porter and Mahinmi together for a return that nets Washington Williams and Jordan, there's no way Ernie is going to pull off a straight a Mahinmi/Jordan deal that doesn't include a significant Wizards asset.

[nate33]

Man, I'm having a feeling the Grunfeld is going to make a move for DeAndre Jordan.

It's the move that perfectly fits Grunfeld's MO, and Ernie's reluctant max player is going to be the key piece to get it done.

Seriously, sweetening the pot with our first and absolving himself from the Mahinmi mess in a fell swoop, it doesn't get more Grunfeld than that.

If EG can turn Mahinmi and filler (presumably Jason Smith) into DeAndre Jordan while sacrificing only one 1st round pick, I'd be just fine with it.

It's probably going to cost a pick to dump Mahinmi no matter what we do. If the player we get back is a legit top 7ish center, that that's a pretty good deal.

Oh no, I'm thinking more like Ernie packaging Porter and Mahinmi together for a return that nets Washington Williams and Jordan, there's no way Ernie is going to pull off a straight a Mahinmi/Jordan deal that doesn't include a significant Wizards asset.

I see.

Agreed. That would be awful. I don't think it happens though. Porter is too difficult to use as a trade chip because of the size of his contract and the trade kicker.

[queridiculo]

Agreed. That would be awful. I don't think it happens though. Porter is too difficult to use as a trade chip because of the size of his contract and the trade kicker.

If I understand it correctly at least for this year, the trade kicker shouldn't have any effect since he's already making the max salary under the CBA.

Essentially that trade kicker turns into a bit of a poison pill for the duration of the deal since he'll get raises every time the cap goes up, but even then, I don't think he'll ever see a full 15% increase.

[pcbothwel]

Another shot... Get out of the tax, keep our 2018 pick, become longer, and more versatile.

Wiz In: (Gortat, Smith, CMC, 2019 1st)
Snell
Grant
Portis

Bucks: (Snell, Maker) - Get a great contrast to Henson at the 5 and Clear cap space in summer of 2019
Gortat
CMC

Bulls: (Grant, Portis) - Maker has another year on his contract and they get the pick. Both fit their timeline better
Smith
Maker
Was 2019 1st

Wall / Grant / Sato
Beal / Sato/ Meeks
Oubre / Snell
Otto / Kieff / Scott
Mahinmi / Portis / Kieff

[dckingsfan]

Cousins for Mahimni now?

[dcstanley]

Man, I'm having a feeling the Grunfeld is going to make a move for DeAndre Jordan.

It's the move that perfectly fits Grunfeld's MO, and Ernie's reluctant max player is going to be the key piece to get it done.

Seriously, sweetening the pot with our first and absolving himself from the Mahinmi mess in a fell swoop, it doesn't get more Grunfeld than that.

If EG can turn Mahinmi and filler (presumably Jason Smith) into DeAndre Jordan while sacrificing only one 1st round pick, I'd be just fine with it.

It's probably going to cost a pick to dump Mahinmi no matter what we do. If the player we get back is a legit top 7ish center, that that's a pretty good deal.

Oh no, I'm thinking more like Ernie packaging Porter and Mahinmi together for a return that nets Washington Williams and Jordan, there's no way Ernie is going to pull off a straight a Mahinmi/Jordan deal that doesn't include a significant Wizards asset.

In the long term that would be a terrible deal and I can’t see it happening but that would probably make us better in the immediate future. Jordan at center and Lou off the bench would give us fighting chance in the playoffs against TOR/BOS

[nate33]

Another shot... Get out of the tax, keep our 2018 pick, become longer, and more versatile.

Wiz In: (Gortat, Smith, CMC, 2019 1st)
Snell
Grant
Portis

Bucks: (Snell, Maker) - Get a great contrast to Henson at the 5 and Clear cap space in summer of 2019
Gortat
CMC

Bulls: (Grant, Portis) - Maker has another year on his contract and they get the pick. Both fit their timeline better
Smith
Maker
Was 2019 1st

Wall / Grant / Sato
Beal / Sato/ Meeks
Oubre / Snell
Otto / Kieff / Scott
Mahinmi / Portis / Kieff

If Chicago is willing to trade Portis for a 1st and a bad contract, I say cut out Milwaukee altogether. Just give Chicago Smith, CMC and a 1st for Portis. It gets us out of the luxtax while giving us a young big who is cheap for one more season. Ted better be prepared to make a backbreaking luxtax payment in 2020 though.

[payitforward]

I don't know why Chicago would want to trade Portis, & I haven't read anywhere that they do -- have I missed something?

I thought they were shopping Mirotic. He doesn't fit for us b/c of salary.

The more I think about all this, the more of a mess we seem to be in. It seems the the very best move we can make is to do nothing. Just make our R1 pick, buy a high R2 pick if we can, make our own R2 pick, & move forward.

edit: of course, we'll try to get under the tax, but I hope that's by way of the most minimal possible move.

[nate33]

I don't know why Chicago would want to trade Portis, & I haven't read anywhere that they do -- have I missed something?

I thought they were shopping Mirotic. He doesn't fit for us b/c of salary.

The more I think about all this, the more of a mess we seem to be in. It seems the the very best move we can make is to do nothing. Just make our R1 pick, buy a high R2 pick if we can, make our own R2 pick, & move forward.

edit: of course, we'll try to get under the tax, but I hope that's by way of the most minimal possible move.

Yes, I'm hoping we can sell off some smaller contracts (Frazier, McCullough) by just using cash. We give away the player to an under-the-cap team, plus enough cash to pay their remaining pro-rated salary, plus a little extra cash as incentive. That would get their entire salary off the books as far as the luxtax calculation is concerned.

We are about $5.9M over the luxtax threshold right now. Dump Frazier and McCullough, and it's down to just $2.4M. Maybe that's enough. Maybe Ted would eat the luxtax payment on just $2.4M. If not, we would need to trade away Jason Smith or Ian Mahinmi for a slightly smaller contract. That's difficult to do without giving up a pick. Dat2U's idea of trying to dump Morris would work too, but I fear management thinks to highly of Morris just to dump him for cap space.

Could we trade Mahinmi straight up for an even less useful player with a slightly less expensive contract, like Brandon Knight? Ian is owed $16.7M, $15.9M and $15.4M respectively. Knight is owed $13.6M, $14.6 and $15.6M. That would save us $3.1M this year, and, coupled with dumping Frazier and McCullough, get us under the luxtax.

[youngWizzy]

A friend suggest this 3 team trade: http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yanybcr3

Washington gets:
Wes Matthews
Nerlens Noel

Dallas gets:
Ian Mahinmi
Wiz 2019 1st
Derrick Favors
Rodney Hood

Utah gets:
Markieff Morris
Jodie Meeks

Utah would get Morris who would seem to be a better fit alongside Gobert. Dallas gets the Wizards 2019 pick along with Favors and Hood who both have 1 year left on their contracts and they could possibly resign Favors and or Hood. Thoughts on this trade?

[nate33]

A friend suggest this 3 team trade: http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yanybcr3

Washington gets:
Wes Matthews
Nerlens Noel

Dallas gets:
Ian Mahinmi
Wiz 2019 1st
Derrick Favors
Rodney Hood

Utah gets:
Markieff Morris
Jodie Meeks

Utah would get Morris who would seem to be a better fit alongside Gobert. Dallas gets the Wizards 2019 pick along with Favors and Hood who both have 1 year left on their contracts and they could possibly resign Favors and or Hood. Thoughts on this trade?

I don't see the motivation from Utah's standpoint. Why in the world would they trade Favors and Hood for Morris and Meeks.

Just a few pages ago, I proposed essentially the same trade, but with Utah out of the loop: Mahinmi + Morris + 2019 1st for Matthews and Noel. Hopefully, we can throw in a small contract like Meeks, or at least Frazier, to get us some luxtax relief.

[youngWizzy]

A friend suggest this 3 team trade: http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yanybcr3

Washington gets:
Wes Matthews
Nerlens Noel

Dallas gets:
Ian Mahinmi
Wiz 2019 1st
Derrick Favors
Rodney Hood

Utah gets:
Markieff Morris
Jodie Meeks

Utah would get Morris who would seem to be a better fit alongside Gobert. Dallas gets the Wizards 2019 pick along with Favors and Hood who both have 1 year left on their contracts and they could possibly resign Favors and or Hood. Thoughts on this trade?

I don't see the motivation from Utah's standpoint. Why in the world would they trade Favors and Hood for Morris and Meeks.

Just a few pages ago, I proposed essentially the same trade, but with Utah out of the loop: Mahinmi + Morris + 2019 1st for Matthews and Noel. Hopefully, we can throw in a small contract like Meeks, or at least Frazier, to get us some luxtax relief.

Felt like Dallas might need more than Favors, Mahinmi, and Wiz 2019 pick. The trade would still work without Hood leaving Utah. I know the Jazz are aggressively trying to move Favors. Also I don't think Utah will look to resign Hood as well.
Your trade mentioned earlier is better, just got carried away thinking of potential destinations for Morris.

[pcbothwel]

Another shot... Get out of the tax, keep our 2018 pick, become longer, and more versatile.

Wiz In: (Gortat, Smith, CMC, 2019 1st)
Snell
Grant
Portis

Bucks: (Snell, Maker) - Get a great contrast to Henson at the 5 and Clear cap space in summer of 2019
Gortat
CMC

Bulls: (Grant, Portis) - Maker has another year on his contract and they get the pick. Both fit their timeline better
Smith
Maker
Was 2019 1st

Wall / Grant / Sato
Beal / Sato/ Meeks
Oubre / Snell
Otto / Kieff / Scott
Mahinmi / Portis / Kieff

If Chicago is willing to trade Portis for a 1st and a bad contract, I say cut out Milwaukee altogether. Just give Chicago Smith, CMC and a 1st for Portis. It gets us out of the luxtax while giving us a young big who is cheap for one more season. Ted better be prepared to make a backbreaking luxtax payment in 2020 though.

Nate, your trade doesnt get us under the tax... It also leaves the Bulls without Maker

[payitforward]

I don't know why Chicago would want to trade Portis, & I haven't read anywhere that they do -- have I missed something?

I thought they were shopping Mirotic. He doesn't fit for us b/c of salary.

The more I think about all this, the more of a mess we seem to be in. It seems the the very best move we can make is to do nothing. Just make our R1 pick, buy a high R2 pick if we can, make our own R2 pick, & move forward.

edit: of course, we'll try to get under the tax, but I hope that's by way of the most minimal possible move.

Yes, I'm hoping we can sell off some smaller contracts (Frazier, McCullough) by just using cash. We give away the player to an under-the-cap team, plus enough cash to pay their remaining pro-rated salary, plus a little extra cash as incentive. That would get their entire salary off the books as far as the luxtax calculation is concerned.

We are about $5.9M over the luxtax threshold right now. Dump Frazier and McCullough, and it's down to just $2.4M. Maybe that's enough. Maybe Ted would eat the luxtax payment on just $2.4M...

Alas, that plan takes us down to 12 players -- 1 below the minimum of 13. We'd have to sign someone.

Hence, as you point out...

... we would need to trade away Jason Smith or Ian Mahinmi for a slightly smaller contract. That's difficult to do without giving up a pick. Dat2U's idea of trying to dump Morris would work too, but I fear management thinks to highly of Morris just to dump him for cap space.

Could we trade Mahinmi straight up for an even less useful player with a slightly less expensive contract, like Brandon Knight? Ian is owed $16.7M, $15.9M and $15.4M respectively. Knight is owed $13.6M, $14.6 and $15.6M. That would save us $3.1M this year, and, coupled with dumping Frazier and McCullough, get us under the luxtax.

OMG, what a sad scenario! Brandon Knight!

I get your rationale, but I don't think I could bring myself do that; Mahinmi has been marginally useful, & his career production has been much better than this year.

It's conceivable that he will return to his mean, which would turn him into some kind of a trade asset. Knight's contract only saves us $1.1m total next year & the following, & him we will never be able to trade.

[payitforward]

...Mahinmi + Morris + 2019 1st for Matthews and Noel.

Saves us $2.5m this year.

Then we might do your suggested deal w/ Brooklyn -- we could send them CMC & Frazier (plus $$ to cover the rest of their salaries) & take back nothing.

That's another $3.5m, which gets us just under the tax. But... I believe we would have to sign another player for the rest of the season -- whatever the cheapest throwaway would cost us. It's possible we could still sneak in just under the tax.

Hopefully, we can throw in ...Meeks....

Meeks instead of Frazier or CMC would make it easier.

[nate33]

Alas, that plan takes us down to 12 players -- 1 below the minimum of 13. We'd have to sign someone.

My read of the rules is that you only need 12. If you drop down to 11 they start hitting you with an incomplete roster charge (which would be equivalent to a rookie minimum salary of $815,000).

[bsilver]

Cousins for Mahimni now?

It's great for us to get rid of Mahinmi's contract. Maybe even sign Cousins, but that's a long shot and big risk.

But there's no reason for NO to consider this trade. They, and no other team actually wants Mahinmi. NO already has the equally bad Asik and Ajinca to take Cousins place.

[payitforward]

Alas, that plan takes us down to 12 players -- 1 below the minimum of 13. We'd have to sign someone.

My read of the rules is that you only need 12. If you drop down to 11 they start hitting you with an incomplete roster charge (which would be equivalent to a rookie minimum salary of $815,000).

I don't think that's right, in fact, the minimum appears to have gone up from 13 to 14 in the new CBA, & the guaranteed average is now 14.5:

"While individual teams are only required to carry a minimum of 14 players (13 active and one inactive, or 12 active and two inactive), the NBA also guarantees a league-wide average of at least 14.5 players per team (not including Two-Way players)...."

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q79

Am I wrong?

[nate33]

Alas, that plan takes us down to 12 players -- 1 below the minimum of 13. We'd have to sign someone.

My read of the rules is that you only need 12. If you drop down to 11 they start hitting you with an incomplete roster charge (which would be equivalent to a rookie minimum salary of $815,000).

I don't think that's right, in fact, the minimum appears to have gone up from 13 to 14 in the new CBA, & the guaranteed average is now 14.5:

"While individual teams are only required to carry a minimum of 14 players (13 active and one inactive, or 12 active and two inactive), the NBA also guarantees a league-wide average of at least 14.5 players per team (not including Two-Way players)...."

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q79

Am I wrong?

There seems to be some conflict. Here's the part that I'm looking at:

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q13

A cap hold called an "incomplete roster charge" if the team has fewer than 12 players (players under contract, free agents included in team salary, players given offer sheets, and first round draft picks). This charge is equal to the rookie minimum salary for each player fewer than 12. For example, if there are 11 players included in team salary, then an amount equal to the rookie minimum salary is added to the team salary5; if the roster is completely empty, then 12 times the rookie minimum salary is added to the team salary. This charge only applies during the offseason.

Why would the incomplete roster charge apply after the 11th player if it's not possible to have less than 13?

[nate33]

Cousins for Mahimni now?

It's great for us to get rid of Mahinmi's contract. Maybe even sign Cousins, but that's a long shot and big risk.

But there's no reason for NO to consider this trade. They, and no other team actually wants Mahinmi. NO already has the equally bad Asik and Ajinca to take Cousins place.

Exactly. If New Orleans has big concerns about Cousins' long term value, they're still better off standing pat at the Trade Deadline and then letting him walk in the offseason.