Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5

[Cutter]

Ouch!

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1665506

[oddity]

I cant lie, Nav has started to sway me. The more i look at it, the more im thinking it might be a good deal. Its funny because i think i was one of the first people that was out there with a big NO when it came to Kemba (But then again i also did post a trade that i said would be the only one that i would do for Kemba with him and Howard both coming back to us).

F'n Leafs blowing everywhere!

If I can just have made a difference in one person's life for the better, than it will have been worth it...

But I promised BW I wouldn't bring "him" up anymore...

Seriously, I think there are options out there, and my biggest worry is Feb 8th (is it??) comes and goes, and Monroe, and his $18M salary is still on our 'books'...what a waste of an Expiring. He's even good, and everything. Not awesome, but he can help a team, for sure.

I think the trade you proposed could actually work for both teams, and I agree that it's about time to get aggressive. A core of Booker/Kemba/JJ, with whoever we draft in the top 10 this year could be very intriguing. The more I think about it the more it seems like a good fit. Kemba, with his 7 3pt attempts per game, seems like just what the doctor ordered for our shooting malnutrition. His playmaking and ball handling is just what Booker needs besides him; a pg that can accept most of the ball handling responsibilities while still allowing Book to be the first option. Getting Dwight means we do not lose our cap flexibility past the end of next season, and is still an upgrade at the C. Probably my biggest gripe would be moving down in the tank standings, especially now that it seems the possibility of landing a franchise altering player in Bagley/Ayton/Doncic/Porter is at its highest, but I would rather improve the team now in a tangible way than wait to pray on a lottery system that was never been good to us (and then on the player drafted to actually live up to expectations). Best case scenario, we make a trade like this and either move up or stay close enough in the draft to grab one of those 4, or JJJ/Bamba/Young. A lineup of Kemba/Book/JJ/Bagley/Dwight sounds tantalizing, and hopefully the spacing works out too... either way, the talent would finally be there, and we would finally have a direction outside of the recurring tanktention hope-crushing cycle we seem to foolishly repeat each year. I'm not 100% sold but we should definitely consider this direction, I think

[darealjuice]

All of this Isaiah Thomas drama in Cleveland is pretty funny. I can't imagine him in Cleveland next year after all of this, seems like there's been constant drama between him and the team whether it's Kevin Love's "illness", IT's bad shot selection, IT's terrible defense, or whatever. No chance he's getting that Brinks truck contract he's been talking about if he can't get his play up to the level it was before his injury by the end of the year. Good thing he hates Phoenix now, because I would hate to be the dumb ass team that gives him a big contract. Seems like dude can only play for a team if it's role players built around him, otherwise he's clashing with everyone.

LeBron is going to be interesting to watch this offseason. It's not hard to envision him leaving, but it is hard to figure out where he would go with the cap space situation across the league. This Cavs team is going to have a real hard time getting any better in the future with the IT acquisition not going well so far, their cap space being well into the Luxury Tax, and their unwillingness to trade the Brooklyn pick without LeBron committing long term (which is smart on the FO). If LeBron ends up leaving, at least they can start their rebuild on a high note by drafting with the Brooklyn pick, potentially working out a sign and trade with LeBron, and selling Kevin Love and company for any positive assets they can get.

[jcsunsfan]

All of this Isaiah Thomas drama in Cleveland is pretty funny. I can't imagine him in Cleveland next year after all of this, seems like there's been constant drama between him and the team whether it's Kevin Love's "illness", IT's bad shot selection, IT's terrible defense, or whatever. No chance he's getting that Brinks truck contract he's been talking about if he can't get his play up to the level it was before his injury by the end of the year. Good thing he hates Phoenix now, because I would hate to be the dumb ass team that gives him a big contract. Seems like dude can only play for a team if it's role players built around him, otherwise he's clashing with everyone.

LeBron is going to be interesting to watch this offseason. It's not hard to envision him leaving, but it is hard to figure out where he would go with the cap space situation across the league. This Cavs team is going to have a real hard time getting any better in the future with the IT acquisition not going well so far, their cap space being well into the Luxury Tax, and their unwillingness to trade the Brooklyn pick without LeBron committing long term (which is smart on the FO). If LeBron ends up leaving, at least they can start their rebuild on a high note by drafting with the Brooklyn pick, potentially working out a sign and trade with LeBron, and selling Kevin Love and company for any positive assets they can get.

IT drama in Cleveland. Dragic whining about not being an all-star. Bledsoe and Rich Paul. No wonder that team was a mess. What a bunch of drama queens.

[darealjuice]

All of this Isaiah Thomas drama in Cleveland is pretty funny. I can't imagine him in Cleveland next year after all of this, seems like there's been constant drama between him and the team whether it's Kevin Love's "illness", IT's bad shot selection, IT's terrible defense, or whatever. No chance he's getting that Brinks truck contract he's been talking about if he can't get his play up to the level it was before his injury by the end of the year. Good thing he hates Phoenix now, because I would hate to be the dumb ass team that gives him a big contract. Seems like dude can only play for a team if it's role players built around him, otherwise he's clashing with everyone.

LeBron is going to be interesting to watch this offseason. It's not hard to envision him leaving, but it is hard to figure out where he would go with the cap space situation across the league. This Cavs team is going to have a real hard time getting any better in the future with the IT acquisition not going well so far, their cap space being well into the Luxury Tax, and their unwillingness to trade the Brooklyn pick without LeBron committing long term (which is smart on the FO). If LeBron ends up leaving, at least they can start their rebuild on a high note by drafting with the Brooklyn pick, potentially working out a sign and trade with LeBron, and selling Kevin Love and company for any positive assets they can get.

IT drama in Cleveland. Dragic whining about not being an all-star. Bledsoe and Rich Paul. No wonder that team was a mess. What a bunch of drama queens.

And then the Mo Bros... wow that was a powder keg with a short wick lol

[Kerrsed]

Ok, now that i have a bit more time, let me further explain my switch on the Kemba situation.

I dont care what Jordan has said, we know GM's want the most for their players and almost never get it. We should know that first hand, but also look all around the league at recent trades for star players and what the rumored asking price was.

Kemba's return will be much less than what players like George/Irving cost. I would also put him a step below what Chicago got in return for Butler. They got what, 2 lotto drafted young players with potential that play the same position along with a pick swap (Moving up 8 spots).

I would equate that to Bender/Chriss and outright giving them the Miami pick (Since their pick will already be mid lotto). Now of course salaries dont match and we all know they are trying to dump a contract, so thats when you throw in Monroe/Len for Howard. We save them $6M instantly (We take on $6M more than we are sending out). They then turn around and Cut Monroe/Len which saves them $23M. They arnt stuck paying Howard $25M next season, they have 2 young prospects to help with the rebuild along with a 2nd draft pick.

Charlotte really reminds me of the Bulls pre-Butler trade. An organization that is kinda lost, has a semi-star player thats been with them for years, yet that they havent been able to win with. Time to reset things and rebuild.

Now, as for my change of heart regarding us and Kemba, I look at it this way, He is probably going to be the best PG that we can get over the next few seasons. While i LOVE me some Trae, what are the actual odds that we end up drafting him? If we are interested in him, teams a head of us could snag him. What if we have one of the Bigs rated higher? And im sorry, im not thrilled with any of the other PG's. Even Sexton is Bleh in my book.

So you got Kemba. He was an all-star for a season. He can score the ball at will. Has some playmaking skills. Stats show he is very similar to Lillard. I see Kemba taking a lot of the pressure off of Booker right away, meaning Booker wont have to do so much, meaning that he wont be forcing up as many shot. Kemba will also be able to draw defenders away from Booker giving him cleaner, more open and better looking shots. Kemba and Booker would shore up our starting guard situation for the foreseeable future and put us up to that Lillard/McCollum level. That leaves us with 3 other positions, which i will now get to.

Jackson is finally starting to show what made him a top pick in the draft. In my eyes, these past games have already sling-shotted him way past Chriss/Bender. Honestly, even without this trade, i would be real interested in seeing him as the starting SF and making Warren the starting PF. But also that is what i would do if we acquired Kemba (and Howard). Right away you are looking at a starting line-up of Kemba/Booker/Jackson/Warren/Howard. I could work with that! As mentioned in posts past, Howard has still been having a pretty good season. For the month of January he is averaging 16/14 along with 3 and a half bocks! Im perfectly fine with those numbers and you should be too! Play the season out with that line-up and use our draft pick to draft one of the many PF/C's. Let that rookie spend a season coming off the bench behind Dwight, where he should be able to learn quite a bit. Sure, people love to hate on D-12, but face it, if he could hit Free-Throws at a better clip, he would be an absolute stud and would still be an allstar. He knows lots of tricks and is a vet that a young rookie big could learn a lot from.

So yeah, thats my stance on it and where i now sit. Since Frank switched sides i feel the polar shift forcing me to about-face on the situation.

/Wall O' Text

[WeekapaugGroove]

Read on Twitter

Simmons wake and baking and throwing out insane trades.

I'd do it if I were the suns. Getting a look at zizik is probably the best they could do with monroes expiring.

Doubt Portland would do this though.

[Bogyo]

About the Boogie injury - from theringer:

"Players who rupture their Achilles don’t have a strong history of returning to full strength. A 2013 research paper published in The American Journal of Sports Medicine found that of 18 NBA players who ruptured their Achilles over 23 seasons, only eight returned to play for longer than one season. A player of Cousins’s caliber is naturally likely to return to the court, but those that do make it back onto the court have mixed results. Players like Elton Brand and Wes Matthews were never the same after returning. Isiah Thomas suffered a ruptured Achilles at age 32, then retired. Dominique Wilkins also had the same injury at age 32, then played until he was 39 and was named to two more All-NBA teams.

Interestingly, the study found that 29 years old was the average age a player ruptured their Achilles. Cousins is 27. Nonetheless, the study found that 17 of the 18 players saw their minutes decrease after returning. While the sample size for football is small, NFL players have seen a similar decline in both opportunity and production."

That's nasty.

[BobbieL]

Read on Twitter

Simmons wake and baking and throwing out insane trades.

I'd do it if I were the suns. Getting a look at zizik is probably the best they could do with monroes expiring.

Doubt Portland would do this though.

I would probably do this deal because not to keep Thomas - but would the Suns get his Bird Rights for an S&T type deal.

Also get a look at Ziziz

But the ability to Sign and Trade Thomas might have value more than Monroe

[Qwigglez]

We trade Monroe and get IT, Zizic, and Ed Davis? Sign me up twice. Rest IT for the rest of the season, keep our pick, and if we draft a center, then keep IT.

[WeekapaugGroove]

One potential issue would be roster spots. I think the suns would need to cut 2 players just to complete the trade even if they planned to buy out one or both of davis and IT. (Correct me if I'm wrong here). Now I guess they could in theory cut both ulis and cannan because they suck and would probaly clear waivers and then just pick one or both back up once they do the buyouts.

[Kerrsed]

Just found this, kinda similar to my idea (-Len but +Ulis)

Phoenix Suns

The Phoenix Suns have a ton of talent but are in desperate need of a veteran leader in the backcourt. They also have some young players who have yet to break out and might need a change of scenery.

In this scenario, the Suns would get Walker and Dwight Howard, while sending Dragan Bender, Marquese Chriss, Tyler Ulis and Greg Monroe’s expiring contract.

Howard is having a really nice bounce-back season (15.5 points, 12.5 rebounds per game) and he, like Walker, is under contract through next season.

The Hornets would get a pair of young, high-upside, second-year big guys and a young replacement point guard in Uliss. Chriss (7.2 points, 5.0 rebounds) and Bender (5.7 points, 3.4 rebounds) have not developed in two years with the Suns and need a chance to play. Meanwhile, Monroe’s $17.88 million salary is off the books at the end of the season.

Suns get: Kemba Walker, Dwight Howard

Hornets get: Dragan Bender, Marquese Chriss, Tyler Ulis, Greg Monroe

http://thebiglead.com/2018/01/24/kemba-walker-hornets-rumors-trade-destination/3/

[darealjuice]

Read on Twitter

Conley out for the year, Grizz tank is very strong.

[Sunsdeuce]

Just found this, kinda similar to my idea (-Len but +Ulis)

Phoenix Suns

The Phoenix Suns have a ton of talent but are in desperate need of a veteran leader in the backcourt. They also have some young players who have yet to break out and might need a change of scenery.

In this scenario, the Suns would get Walker and Dwight Howard, while sending Dragan Bender, Marquese Chriss, Tyler Ulis and Greg Monroe’s expiring contract.

Howard is having a really nice bounce-back season (15.5 points, 12.5 rebounds per game) and he, like Walker, is under contract through next season.

The Hornets would get a pair of young, high-upside, second-year big guys and a young replacement point guard in Uliss. Chriss (7.2 points, 5.0 rebounds) and Bender (5.7 points, 3.4 rebounds) have not developed in two years with the Suns and need a chance to play. Meanwhile, Monroe’s $17.88 million salary is off the books at the end of the season.

Suns get: Kemba Walker, Dwight Howard

Hornets get: Dragan Bender, Marquese Chriss, Tyler Ulis, Greg Monroe

http://thebiglead.com/2018/01/24/kemba-walker-hornets-rumors-trade-destination/3/

So essentially throw away 5 years of rebuild for 2 nearly 30 year olds. I thought the point was to “be patient” and let the young players develop. By making that trade basically says, Ryan McDonough has no clear plan.

(Don’t think I need to say it but will, that trade is stupid).

[DirtyDez]

Just found this, kinda similar to my idea (-Len but +Ulis)

Phoenix Suns

The Phoenix Suns have a ton of talent but are in desperate need of a veteran leader in the backcourt. They also have some young players who have yet to break out and might need a change of scenery.

In this scenario, the Suns would get Walker and Dwight Howard, while sending Dragan Bender, Marquese Chriss, Tyler Ulis and Greg Monroe’s expiring contract.

Howard is having a really nice bounce-back season (15.5 points, 12.5 rebounds per game) and he, like Walker, is under contract through next season.

The Hornets would get a pair of young, high-upside, second-year big guys and a young replacement point guard in Uliss. Chriss (7.2 points, 5.0 rebounds) and Bender (5.7 points, 3.4 rebounds) have not developed in two years with the Suns and need a chance to play. Meanwhile, Monroe’s $17.88 million salary is off the books at the end of the season.

Suns get: Kemba Walker, Dwight Howard

Hornets get: Dragan Bender, Marquese Chriss, Tyler Ulis, Greg Monroe

http://thebiglead.com/2018/01/24/kemba-walker-hornets-rumors-trade-destination/3/

Interesting deal considering 1/3 guys we send out might end up being a legitimate NBA player. I just don't like the timing considering our current and much needed downward spiral.

[Kerrsed]

Just found this, kinda similar to my idea (-Len but +Ulis)

Phoenix Suns

The Phoenix Suns have a ton of talent but are in desperate need of a veteran leader in the backcourt. They also have some young players who have yet to break out and might need a change of scenery.

In this scenario, the Suns would get Walker and Dwight Howard, while sending Dragan Bender, Marquese Chriss, Tyler Ulis and Greg Monroe’s expiring contract.

Howard is having a really nice bounce-back season (15.5 points, 12.5 rebounds per game) and he, like Walker, is under contract through next season.

The Hornets would get a pair of young, high-upside, second-year big guys and a young replacement point guard in Uliss. Chriss (7.2 points, 5.0 rebounds) and Bender (5.7 points, 3.4 rebounds) have not developed in two years with the Suns and need a chance to play. Meanwhile, Monroe’s $17.88 million salary is off the books at the end of the season.

Suns get: Kemba Walker, Dwight Howard

Hornets get: Dragan Bender, Marquese Chriss, Tyler Ulis, Greg Monroe

http://thebiglead.com/2018/01/24/kemba-walker-hornets-rumors-trade-destination/3/

So essentially throw away 5 years of rebuild for 2 nearly 30 year olds. I thought the point was to “be patient” and let the young players develop. By making that trade basically says, Ryan McDonough has no clear plan.

(Don’t think I need to say it but will, that trade is stupid).

Love how a 27 year old jumps to 30 when need be. And i dont see how you come up with "Throwing away 5 years of rebuilding" when we are still keeping the 3 best players drafted during that rebuild time (Warren/Booker/Jackson) and are only giving up 2 of them that have had all the opportunities in the world to shine in a Suns jersey, and keep failing over and over and over again. But sure, lets make it seem like trading for Kemba makes these past 5 seasons absolutely worthless and a waste of time.

And no clear path? Hasnt McD said from day one that we would collect assets and look to go after a all-star or disgruntled star?

[Kerrsed]

Read on Twitter

I was just wondering this same thing!

[BobbieL]

One potential issue would be roster spots. I think the suns would need to cut 2 players just to complete the trade even if they planned to buy out one or both of davis and IT. (Correct me if I'm wrong here). Now I guess they could in theory cut both ulis and cannan because they suck and would probaly clear waivers and gthen just pick one or both back up once they do the buyouts.

The Simmons trade is a long shot to be sure - but if you are trading Monroe - a guy like Zizic might be your best use of that

Yes, the Suns would have to release players or better yet - just throw Ulis to the Kings

There are ways to get things done

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Just found this, kinda similar to my idea (-Len but +Ulis)

Phoenix Suns

The Phoenix Suns have a ton of talent but are in desperate need of a veteran leader in the backcourt. They also have some young players who have yet to break out and might need a change of scenery.

In this scenario, the Suns would get Walker and Dwight Howard, while sending Dragan Bender, Marquese Chriss, Tyler Ulis and Greg Monroe’s expiring contract.

Howard is having a really nice bounce-back season (15.5 points, 12.5 rebounds per game) and he, like Walker, is under contract through next season.

The Hornets would get a pair of young, high-upside, second-year big guys and a young replacement point guard in Uliss. Chriss (7.2 points, 5.0 rebounds) and Bender (5.7 points, 3.4 rebounds) have not developed in two years with the Suns and need a chance to play. Meanwhile, Monroe’s $17.88 million salary is off the books at the end of the season.

Suns get: Kemba Walker, Dwight Howard

Hornets get: Dragan Bender, Marquese Chriss, Tyler Ulis, Greg Monroe

http://thebiglead.com/2018/01/24/kemba-walker-hornets-rumors-trade-destination/3/

Interesting deal considering 1/3 guys we send out might end up being a legitimate NBA player. I just don't like the timing considering our current and much needed downward spiral.

I think it's pretty simple: we need to rectify this problem in the offseason. If there were PGs worth taking a look at from the G league or overseas, I'd be willing to add them mid-season, as there's potential upside there. But spending big to solve problems during the season seems like an obvious way to "break" the rebuild. You can't break the rebuild. That's the one thing you can't do.

In two years, both of these guys will be free agents. I don't think I want to give Kemba a max deal in any case, and if less than that will purchase his services, then we should be able to get him in free agency if we want him.

All of these ideas are band aids for the wound that is having to watch our play this season. They're just short-sighted.

[oddity]

Just found this, kinda similar to my idea (-Len but +Ulis)

Phoenix Suns

The Phoenix Suns have a ton of talent but are in desperate need of a veteran leader in the backcourt. They also have some young players who have yet to break out and might need a change of scenery.

In this scenario, the Suns would get Walker and Dwight Howard, while sending Dragan Bender, Marquese Chriss, Tyler Ulis and Greg Monroe’s expiring contract.

Howard is having a really nice bounce-back season (15.5 points, 12.5 rebounds per game) and he, like Walker, is under contract through next season.

The Hornets would get a pair of young, high-upside, second-year big guys and a young replacement point guard in Uliss. Chriss (7.2 points, 5.0 rebounds) and Bender (5.7 points, 3.4 rebounds) have not developed in two years with the Suns and need a chance to play. Meanwhile, Monroe’s $17.88 million salary is off the books at the end of the season.

Suns get: Kemba Walker, Dwight Howard

Hornets get: Dragan Bender, Marquese Chriss, Tyler Ulis, Greg Monroe

http://thebiglead.com/2018/01/24/kemba-walker-hornets-rumors-trade-destination/3/

So essentially throw away 5 years of rebuild for 2 nearly 30 year olds. I thought the point was to “be patient” and let the young players develop. By making that trade basically says, Ryan McDonough has no clear plan.

(Don’t think I need to say it but will, that trade is stupid).

Since when is Bender and Chriss (and Ulis) "5 years of rebuild"? We still have a 21 year old Booker and 20 year Josh Jackson. Kemba is 27, so he can still give a strong 5-6 years of strong production. Chriss and Bender may become good players eventually, but at the level they are at now, their age doesn't matter; they would be non-factors. It's great to have a roster of young players, but at the end of the day, they are assets. We either keep 2 mediocre players that may be good eventually, or get an all-star caliber player that fits our team needs and playstyle. We STILL have our upcoming 1st rounder in this scenario, and that could potentially net us a third young player that fits the age Booker/JJ age range. One 27 year old core player and a 32 year old replaceable center isn't going to make us old, but it WILL make us competitive for once.