Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV

[nate33]

My read of the rules is that you only need 12. If you drop down to 11 they start hitting you with an incomplete roster charge (which would be equivalent to a rookie minimum salary of $815,000).

I don't think that's right, in fact, the minimum appears to have gone up from 13 to 14 in the new CBA, & the guaranteed average is now 14.5:

"While individual teams are only required to carry a minimum of 14 players (13 active and one inactive, or 12 active and two inactive), the NBA also guarantees a league-wide average of at least 14.5 players per team (not including Two-Way players)...."

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q79

Am I wrong?

There seems to be some conflict. Here's the part that I'm looking at:

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q13

A cap hold called an "incomplete roster charge" if the team has fewer than 12 players (players under contract, free agents included in team salary, players given offer sheets, and first round draft picks). This charge is equal to the rookie minimum salary for each player fewer than 12. For example, if there are 11 players included in team salary, then an amount equal to the rookie minimum salary is added to the team salary5; if the roster is completely empty, then 12 times the rookie minimum salary is added to the team salary. This charge only applies during the offseason.

Why would the incomplete roster charge apply after the 11th player if it's not possible to have less than 13?

Hmmm.

On further review, I think you are right. You need at least 12 active and 2 inactive. The incomplete roster charge applies only in the offseason when you are calculating the cap room you have available to use in free agency.

[dckingsfan]

Cousins for Mahimni now?

It's great for us to get rid of Mahinmi's contract. Maybe even sign Cousins, but that's a long shot and big risk.

But there's no reason for NO to consider this trade. They, and no other team actually wants Mahinmi. NO already has the equally bad Asik and Ajinca to take Cousins place.

Exactly. If New Orleans has big concerns about Cousins' long term value, they're still better off standing pat at the Trade Deadline and then letting him walk in the offseason.

Sadly, very true...

[NatP4]

It's great for us to get rid of Mahinmi's contract. Maybe even sign Cousins, but that's a long shot and big risk.

But there's no reason for NO to consider this trade. They, and no other team actually wants Mahinmi. NO already has the equally bad Asik and Ajinca to take Cousins place.

Exactly. If New Orleans has big concerns about Cousins' long term value, they're still better off standing pat at the Trade Deadline and then letting him walk in the offseason.

Sadly, very true...

Wait why is that true? Letting a player walk over trading him is better how? Did I miss part of this thread or something?

[dckingsfan]

Exactly. If New Orleans has big concerns about Cousins' long term value, they're still better off standing pat at the Trade Deadline and then letting him walk in the offseason.

Sadly, very true...

Wait why is that true? Letting a player walk over trading him is better how? Did I miss part of this thread or something?

The point is we would love to trade Cousins for Mahimni. Cousins walks next year and we aren't so miserably over the cap.

[pcbothwel]

Sadly, very true...

Wait why is that true? Letting a player walk over trading him is better how? Did I miss part of this thread or something?

The point is we would love to trade Cousins for Mahimni. Cousins walks next year and we aren't so miserably over the cap.

I really think the Lakers are the ones killed by whats going on. i think Cousins stays and I also think PG13 stays in OKC, for at least one more year

[dckingsfan]

Wait why is that true? Letting a player walk over trading him is better how? Did I miss part of this thread or something?

The point is we would love to trade Cousins for Mahimni. Cousins walks next year and we aren't so miserably over the cap.

I really think the Lakers are the ones killed by whats going on. i think Cousins stays and I also think PG13 stays in OKC, for at least one more year

Yep, does Lebron go to the Lakers with no help?

[payitforward]

Yes... I was about to respond to the earlier post. & this throws a monkey wrench into our plan to dump salary by paying under-cap teams to take it on for us. We are at 14 right now.

We could still move e.g. Smith & Meeks & $$ somewhere for cheap, expiring salaries -- e.g. to the Nets for Quincy Acy & Isaiah Whitehead. That deal would save us @$5m. But... both those guys have player options this Summer. I can't see Brooklyn wanting them on the roster next year.

If I were Ernie, I'd be thinking that my job was finally on the line right now. Or I'd be thinking about retirement. If we pay tax & win only 45 games, winding up in 5th or even 6th position (given how Philly is playing now), it isn't going to look good that we're going into next season w/ $126.5m committed to only 11 guys & therefore almost certain to pay more tax, then face an impossible season in terms of roster & salaries.

What that means is that Ernie must feel he has to get rid of Mahinmi or Gortat at any cost. As we know, to Ernie "cost" = "our draft picks." Yet, w/o our draft picks we are utterly ruined for the season after next.

[payitforward]

But... we do have 1 secret opportunity, or a potential one. Lets see what you think.

Spoiler:

Given how much the Pels would gain by making the playoffs this year, could they be talked into trading Cousins, Cheick Diallo & Frank Jackson straight up for Mahinmi & Meeks?

If so, then at the end of the season we would...

Spoiler:

let Cousins walk. Yeah, assorted fanboys, that's right.

Our next-year tax problems would be...

Spoiler:

gone! We'd have 13 players including our R1 & R2 picks for under $113m. Maybe Devin Robinson would be our 14th guy -- roster complete for $114m.

Moreover, the following year would be...

Spoiler:

be hard still -- but a lot easier than it would be otherwise! We'd be at @$108m for 11 guys (including our 2019 R1 pick) -- off the top of my head.

Of course, we'd still be dealing w/ the problem of extensions for Sato & Oubre that year. But... at least this is imaginable as a way forward.

[nate33]

Exactly. If New Orleans has big concerns about Cousins' long term value, they're still better off standing pat at the Trade Deadline and then letting him walk in the offseason.

Sadly, very true...

Wait why is that true? Letting a player walk over trading him is better how? Did I miss part of this thread or something?

Letting Cousins walk and freeing up the cap room is better than trading him for a player with negative value like Mahinmi.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't consider trading him. It merely means they shouldn't consider trading him for Mahinmi.

[nate33]

But... we do have 1 secret opportunity, or a potential one. Lets see what you think.

Spoiler:

Given how much the Pels would gain by making the playoffs this year, could they be talked into trading Cousins, Cheick Diallo & Frank Jackson straight up for Mahinmi & Meeks?

I don't see why New Orleans would make that trade. Even with Cousins' injury, and even if we assume that New Orleans wants to trade him now rather than wait and get nothing, they could still do better than that poo-poo platter. Surely there is a team out there that would trade a better package (expiring contracts and a pick, if nothing else) for RFA rights on Cousins.

[NatP4]

Will anyone even want to sign Cousins? What are the chances he’s ever an above average player again?

[Dark Faze]

Will anyone even want to sign Cousins? What are the chances he’s ever an above average player again?

Have a friend who is a Pels season ticket holder who is fairly sure he's getting a max from them that's incentive laden.

[nate33]

Will anyone even want to sign Cousins? What are the chances he’s ever an above average player again?

An Achilles injury isn't a death sentence, not for a 27 year old. And it's not like Cousins needs to be an explosive leaper. He could still have a long career as a Marc Gasol type of plodder who can score from the high post, pass well, and post weak bigs at will.

I think someone will sign Cousins and pay him a lot of money, maybe even a max. The one difference is that a team might not agree to a really long deal. Maybe it'll just be a 3-year deal.

[JAR69]

I don't think that's right, in fact, the minimum appears to have gone up from 13 to 14 in the new CBA, & the guaranteed average is now 14.5:

"While individual teams are only required to carry a minimum of 14 players (13 active and one inactive, or 12 active and two inactive), the NBA also guarantees a league-wide average of at least 14.5 players per team (not including Two-Way players)...."

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q79

Am I wrong?

There seems to be some conflict. Here's the part that I'm looking at:

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q13

A cap hold called an "incomplete roster charge" if the team has fewer than 12 players (players under contract, free agents included in team salary, players given offer sheets, and first round draft picks). This charge is equal to the rookie minimum salary for each player fewer than 12. For example, if there are 11 players included in team salary, then an amount equal to the rookie minimum salary is added to the team salary5; if the roster is completely empty, then 12 times the rookie minimum salary is added to the team salary. This charge only applies during the offseason.

Why would the incomplete roster charge apply after the 11th player if it's not possible to have less than 13?

Hmmm.

On further review, I think you are right. You need at least 12 active and 2 inactive. The incomplete roster charge applies only in the offseason when you are calculating the cap room you have available to use in free agency.

Do you know if you can count players on two-way contracts toward the 14? If so, that would open up some options.

[nate33]

There seems to be some conflict. Here's the part that I'm looking at:

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q13



Why would the incomplete roster charge apply after the 11th player if it's not possible to have less than 13?

Hmmm.

On further review, I think you are right. You need at least 12 active and 2 inactive. The incomplete roster charge applies only in the offseason when you are calculating the cap room you have available to use in free agency.

Do you know if you can count players on two-way contracts toward the 14? If so, that would open up some options.

No. It doesn't appear that two-way players count in meeting the minimum roster limit. There's a rather confusing chart in the Larry Coon FAQ. But it looks like the smallest roster size would be either 13 active and 1 non-two-way player inactive, or 12 active and at least 2 non-two-way players inactive.

[Dark Faze]

Now is the time to take a good look at Marc I think. I think he could be had for cheap.

[NatP4]

Avery Bradley is exactly what we need.

Would you guys do Gortat and a 1st round pick for Stanley Johnson and Avery Bradley?

Wall Sato
Beal Bradley
Oubre Johnson
Porter Scott
Mahinmi Morris

[NatP4]

Wonder how much value we would have to send back to get Drummond and Bradley?

[Ruzious]

Avery Bradley is exactly what we need.

Would you guys do Gortat and a 1st round pick for Stanley Johnson and Avery Bradley?

Wall Sato
Beal Bradley
Oubre Johnson
Porter Scott
Mahinmi Morris

I love Bradley, but he'd be a half year rental and can't play center. He's going to want a long-term contract at more than double the rate he's currently getting, and he might get it... from someone else.

[payitforward]

Do you know if you can count players on two-way contracts toward the 14? If so, that would open up some options.

No. It doesn't appear that two-way players count in meeting the minimum roster limit. There's a rather confusing chart in the Larry Coon FAQ. But it looks like the smallest roster size would be either 13 active and 1 non-two-way player inactive, or 12 active and at least 2 non-two-way players inactive.

2-way contracts are an altogether new category that is separate from the the regular roster.

A team has to have 14 or 15 players on its regular roster. At least 12 of the regular-roster players must be active.

In addition the team may have either 1 or 2 of these new 2-way contracts, meaning that it may have as many as 17 players under contract overall.

A 2-way player may spend no more than 45 days with his NBA team. He spends the rest of his time in the G-League. He receives a G-League salary except when he's with his NBA team; for those days he receives the per-day amount of an NBA minimum contract.