Political Roundtable Part XVII

[dckingsfan]

But there are many single issue Rs (abortion) that aren't racist - you see two see it as black and white and it isn't.

I agree with your larger point here, but I'd like to point out that there comes a point where, if you're willing to look the other way for your single issue, it becomes entirely irrelevant whether or not you want to argue that you are or aren't for the issue you're accepting in order to get at your single issue, and it's well past that point here. If you're willing to accept the kind of stuff we've seen in the search for banning abortion, then yes, you do support that stuff, too, whether you want to admit it or not. If you didn't support those other issues, you'd be arguing against them just as strong as you are on abortion if you were actually against them, and trying to find another way to achieve your anti-abortion goals. After a while, acceptance becomes complicity. You can't say "I'm not racist, I care, I just am not willing to really do anything about it or sacrifice anything that might possibly harm the most immediate achievement of my goal such as I have chosen to define it regardless of the consequences." It just doesn't work that way. If the bridge is out, you don't try to ramp the gulley to get there faster because your only issue is getting to your destination as fast as possible and then get to say you don't support anyone trying to stunt with their vehicles.

I might be missing your point. Are you saying that if you are a single issue person, you can understand why they would vote a certain way? If so we agree. Abortion - R. Racism - D. I think both of those single issue voters come across the same way.

If you vote D you are a baby killer. If you vote R you are a racist. A spade is a spade.

[stilldropin20]

Where is the 3% growth in the GDP?
Trumps boast was to increase the GDP numbers to emerging nations numbers and the year is over how did he succeed? Earlier in this forum I said that a GDP growth in developed economies should be in the 2 to 3% range. Some argued that my numbers were too modest and that higher than 3% was doable! I can agree coming off a extreme downturn it can happen but that is only to equalize previous years. The USA came in with a very respectable 2.6% growth with poor 1st & 4th quarters. That is the 2nd best growth in the Group of 7.




Note to NATE & SD20 your dreams of mass deportation of illegals would cause drastic harm to the USA economy.



BTW Canada had the top growth of the Group of 7 without final figures could be slightly over or under3%

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/1/27/1736453/-Trump-didn-t-get-his-3-plus-economic-growth-for-2017-and-is-unlikely-to-in-2018-or-19-or

we dont want massive deportation of anyone. what we want is a DACA deal!!! (something Bush and obama could not get done) combined with a secure border fully appropriated, sensible and responsible and humane immigration reform that will encourage wages to rise for the working poor and lower middle class. with a move to a more merit based immigration system that includes the nuclear family.

I think this is a great deal. an amazing deal. to secure a pathway to citizenship for up to 1.8M being discussed (so it goes beyond DACA) million people already here. They will no longer be in limbo. and as long as they remain crime free and I imagine self sustainable at some level they will earn their citizenship.

Its a fair deal. A deal of Love. and it makes it somewhat merit based as the pathway laid out is over 10-12 years of being crime free and self sustainable at some level.

Bull Crap Babbles Brains
DACA is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to illegal immigration! The only reason they are being contemplated is the 78% popularity in there plight. This could have been solved months ago and even now this legislation may face a uncertain future in the house. Tying this to some draconian immigration laws and building a unneeded wall is hypocrisy.
By most accounts somewhere between 11 & 13 million illegals live in the USA with most being contributors to America from laborers on farms, landscapers, workers in hospitality industry and construction. Jobs that American workers will not fill. Plus many of these families have children that are American citizens.

see. this is where we have a fundemental difference. the common sense coalition says that if you remove 5-8 Million illegals from the labor force that big business like the koch brothers NEED that labor and will pay for it. So the Koch brothers will have to pay more on their corporate farms, packaging and distribution centers. So what? Pay a fair wage and an american will DO THAT WORK!!!

Same goes for manufacturing and restaurant jobs in cities.

The illegals can still apply for citizenship (legally) and they may even find themselves within the 1.8M that stay.

But I think we OWE IT to out EXISTING AMERICAN citizens(especially poor folks that been here for generations) to provide those jobs at livable wages to americans first. Big business just got a major tax break!!! Now they can use that money to pay american citizens and livable wage!!

Curtail immigration to meet the needs of the labor force. Do this smartly and you have effectively solved many problems in the entitlement programs. Combine this with good infrastructure bill and we are looking at virtual NO unemployment. Including the elderly. So much work is virtual these days and can even be accomplished from home. Why do american companies export tech support overseas while paying massive entitlement dollars to capable elderly sitting at home? Those elderly can be trained on tech support just the same and they will "do the work" if they need the money to eat. Which again forces big business to pay a livable wage.

This is how you effectively "tax" big business. What was that? you say big business will pass those costs on to the consumer? Maybe. maybe not. This is why you deregulate industry. All the regulation exists because established big business want them there. so as to curtail competition. Trump been deregulatin' like a mofo. So we'll see on that one. So far? Trump been right on everything. Every. muthaphuckin. thing.

The good ol' fashioned common sense coalition FTW.

[cammac]

Every party has its radical elements and independents by that definition have a wide non cohesive variety of views. Even between men and women there views and aspirations diverge. In certain racial groups with American's of Cuban heritage and the rest of the Latinos are a significant political gulf.
Even in the most advanced Democracies there are still far Right movements that show there ugliness.
What makes the Trump/Republican administration different is that it has condoned this blot on civilized society and has used it to its political advantage. It is obvious that Trump has 35% of hardcore supporters in your great nation. I suspect that well over 30% would fall into Clinton's definition of "Deplorables".
Race and Tribalism has always unfortunately been part of the fabric of humans and still is! When you add religious beliefs that maintain your superiority over others it becomes worse. Every religion on it's basic principals have worthwhile guiding principals but have been subverted by false prophets in there hierarchy.
The only way to thwart these demons is through education and understanding and to look at people of different cultures and skin shades as brothers & sisters. The perfect example is my wife when we 1st meet she had been taught that black people were inferior. Through mutual friends she met black people and her mind changed. We were together in Africa with a dynamic black woman and got to meet people and go to places most tourists don't go. My wife was the guiding force in setting up a co-operative for 20 women and children which we financed.
My lecture of the day!

[dckingsfan]

If the Republicans supported importing ISIS soldiers into the US but also sustainable government, I'd have to bite the bullet (heh, probably literally!) and vote R! There are no conceivable impediments to my single issue vote here, and this is fine and doesn't make me an ISIS supporter.

That being said, if you vote against Republicans because a few of them are racist, you are a tribalist and shame on you.

And that said - we are both on the same page - I am not voting for this administration. They don't have family values, they don't support any kind of sustainable government, they aren't for tax fairness or income equality.

I would vote for any of the Common Sense Coalition folks on either side of the aisle.

[gtn130]

If the Republicans supported importing ISIS soldiers into the US but also sustainable government, I'd have to bite the bullet (heh, probably literally!) and vote R! There are no conceivable impediments to my single issue vote here, and this is fine and doesn't make me an ISIS supporter.

That being said, if you vote against Republicans because a few of them are racist, you are a tribalist and shame on you.

And that said - we are both on the same page - I am not voting for this administration. They don't have family values, they don't support any kind of sustainable government, they aren't for tax fairness or income equality.

I would vote for any of the Common Sense Coalition folks on either side of the aisle.

You're not voting for this administration because they don't support your single issue of 'sustainable government'.

Sustainable government + abject racism is fine with you.

[popper]

Gtn and pointgod - I’m curious as to what text you would point to that informs your views on morality.

[cammac]

Gtn and pointgod - I’m curious as to what text you would point to that informs your views on morality.

Really guys none of you are racist dckingfan, popper, GTN & Pointguard you all have different political views. But none have ever came close to crossing the line. I agree with all of you to some extent simply because I am a independent. I'm a fiscal conservative, I believe in rational immigration policies, I take a world view and I believe every country should have a well funded social network. Hell we can disagree on things but drawing lines in the sand isn't one of them. There is only one racist on this board and I won't mention his name.

[FAH1223]

Read on Twitter

[cammac]

The Russian Influence Peddlers!

One of Switzerland’s top investigators has been fired after allegations of bribery, violating secrecy laws, and “unauthorized clandestine behavior” in meeting with the very same Russian actors linked to the Trump Tower encounter.

The meeting was reportedly set up by Russian Deputy Attorney General Saak Albertovich Karapetyan—from the same rogue department that was apparently responsible for offering intel on Hillary Clinton to be shared at the Trump Tower meeting and the Kremlin’s further plots to influence U.S. politics.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-tower-russian-lawyer-natalia-veselnitskaya-exposed-in-swiss-corruption-case?ref=home

[gtn130]

Gtn and pointgod - I’m curious as to what text you would point to that informs your views on morality.

lol

[stilldropin20]

Dear GTN and pointgod.

Wizardspride and Ruzious almost fall into this category as well.

Do you guys realize that that as long as the D's can use their "race card" dog whistle on you that they will actually never have to do any actual work to earn your vote??? You guys are essentially are single issue voters. Its clear as day. and this issue should mean a lot to you. I applaud you all that is does. But seriously like a twelve year old child, you guys are blind to nuance that could encourage the D's to do more for you.

In short you are allowing the D's to do little to now work at all for your vote. And frankly thats why my beautiful and wonderful south side of chicago is in ruins in many parts. D's control this city locally and federally. Same with baltimore, DC, NY and others. all the same. It is NO MORE apparent the wealth disparity than in these parts. The entire state of california is nearly a welfare state yet the state is also home to many of our wealthiest citizens. Chicago has amazing wealth in many parts. then despair blocks away. And its been run by D's for 50 years!!

Hold your cards closer you your chest. Even bluff once in awhile. get good at it. maybe. just maybe you get so good at it that R's actually think they can win your vote and begin to earnestly work for it. maybe. just maybe even scare the D's with some R votes when a good candidate that works for you comes around.

Give it some thought.

here is what i suggest. You guys have to learn how to become better poker players with your vote. Like I said, I'm a life long and current registered democrat. I dont know many minorities who are not. So try holding your cards closer you your chest. Even bluff once in awhile. get good at it. maybe. just maybe you get so good at it that R's actually think they can win your vote and begin to earnestly work for it. maybe. just maybe even scare the D's with some R votes when a good candidate that works for you comes around. This might light a fire under the D's. they might actually do something for you besides the laziest of campaign rhetoric of all time. "RACIST" I mean seriously. Do they even need to hire anyone in their campaigns? Do any kind of real research to understand what policy might help? anything? Just the ol' racist one liners gets the votes, huh? amazing.

I dont think you guys realize how badly corrupt the DNC has become. and perhaps always was. Again, they serve the most unlikely of 2 masters. the wealthy elites that run the globe and the poorest entitlement class and working poor. and some middle class are still dumb enough to be guilted into voting for them based on some identity politics go nowhere bullcrap.

I mean you guys know the issues. you are informed. You have eyes, right. You see what i see when you drive through poor urban neighborhood, right? Those are what we call the "real results." What your eyes actually see in those neighborhoods. Democratic controlled cities in mostly democratic controlled states. and we just had a democrat in the white house for 16 of the last 24 years.

Give it some thought.

anyway. trump has african-american unemployment at an all time low. I think you may have heard? He's proud of it, too. whatever his motivations he happens to like talking about it. Imagine this for a second. Imagine a white guy, who has been called a white supremecist, that is proud of helping african americans. Again. i dont care about his motivation(which very well can be (altruistic). I care about the results. So just imagine if we arm him with more power to help our cities even moreso. keep in mind this guy is also a life long democrat and lived in NYC his entire life.

Choice is yours. either way. at least become a better gotdamn poker player with you phuckin votes!!!

[popper]

Gtn and pointgod - I’m curious as to what text you would point to that informs your views on morality.

lol

You’ve made a lot of moral judgements over the past several months regarding R and independent voters and it would only make sense if we could understand where your definitions of moral behavior come from. Please tell us.

[cammac]

Dear GTN and pointgod.

Wizardspride and Ruzious almost fall into this category as well.

Do you guys realize that that as long as the D's can use their "race card" dog whistle on you that they will actually never have to do any actual work to earn your vote??? You guys are essentially are single issue voters. Its clear as day. and this issue should mean a lot to you. I applaud you all that is does. But seriously like a twelve year old child, you guys are blind to nuance that could encourage the D's to do more for you.

In short you are allowing the D's to do little to now work at all for your vote. And frankly thats why my beautiful and wonderful south side of chicago is in ruins in many parts. D's control this city locally and federally. Same with baltimore, DC, NY and others. all the same. It is NO MORE apparent the wealth disparity than in these parts. The entire state of california is nearly a welfare state yet the state is also home to many of our wealthiest citizens. Chicago has amazing wealth in many parts. then despair blocks away. And its been run by D's for 50 years!!

Hold your cards closer you your chest. Even bluff once in awhile. get good at it. maybe. just maybe you get so good at it that R's actually think they can win your vote and begin to earnestly work for it. maybe. just maybe even scare the D's with some R votes when a good candidate that works for you comes around.

Give it some thought.

here is what i suggest. You guys have to learn how to become better poker players with your vote. Like I said, I'm a life long and current registered democrat. I dont know many minorities who are not. So try holding your cards closer you your chest. Even bluff once in awhile. get good at it. maybe. just maybe you get so good at it that R's actually think they can win your vote and begin to earnestly work for it. maybe. just maybe even scare the D's with some R votes when a good candidate that works for you comes around. This might light a fire under the D's. they might actually do something for you besides the laziest of campaign rhetoric of all time. "RACIST" I mean seriously. Do they even need to hire anyone in their campaigns? Do any kind of real research to understand what policy might help? anything? Just the ol' racist one liners gets the votes, huh? amazing.

I dont think you guys realize how badly corrupt the DNC has become. and perhaps always was. Again, they serve the most unlikely of 2 masters. the wealthy elites that run the globe and the poorest entitlement class and working poor. and some middle class are still dumb enough to be guilted into voting for them based on some identity politics go nowhere bullcrap.

I mean you guys know the issues. you are informed. You have eyes, right. You see what i see when you drive through poor urban neighborhood, right? Those are what we call the "real results." What your eyes actually see in those neighborhoods. Democratic controlled cities in mostly democratic controlled states. and we just had a democrat in the white house for 16 of the last 24 years.

Give it some thought.

anyway. trump has african-american unemployment at an all time low. I think you may have heard? He's proud of it, too. whatever his motivations he happens to like talking about it. Imagine this for a second. Imagine a white guy, who has been called a white supremecist, that is proud of helping african americans. Again. i dont care about his motivation(which very well can be (altruistic). I care about the results. So just imagine if we arm him with more power to help our cities even moreso. keep in mind this guy is also a life long democrat and lived in NYC his entire life.

Choice is yours. either way. at least become a better gotdamn poker player with you phuckin votes!!!

You aren't a racist but you have absolutely no cohesion to any of your arguments and seem obsesses with the far right. Your views go from communist philosophy at one point to capitalist greed in the next sentence.
Maybe you could learn from the posters you admonish and others like popper and dckingfan and moderate your prattle.

[gtn130]

Gtn and pointgod - I’m curious as to what text you would point to that informs your views on morality.

lol

I don't have a specific text that informs my views on morality.

People should be treated fairly and equitably, and their views and personal decisions should be tolerated as long as they don't harm others. Lots of Republican views harm others. Lots of Republican views perpetuate inequality.

In general religion - and especially evangelicalism - as it's constructed today in America is a laughable charade that is deeply politicized and massively harmful to society. Evangelicals are largely bad people who think they're good people because they vote against abortion. It's a joke.

Religion as a whole is extremely bad for humanity, but I understand a small % of religious people are genuinely good and earnest people and I wouldn't castigate someone for being religious, but I wouldn't tolerate any proselytizing.

I think a major failing in American culture is how little we value our communities around us. If I were running for office I would campaign on building a sense of community in America.

[nate33]

Read on Twitter

[stilldropin20]

Every party has its radical elements and independents by that definition have a wide non cohesive variety of views. Even between men and women there views and aspirations diverge. In certain racial groups with American's of Cuban heritage and the rest of the Latinos are a significant political gulf.
Even in the most advanced Democracies there are still far Right movements that show there ugliness.
What makes the Trump/Republican administration different is that it has condoned this blot on civilized society and has used it to its political advantage. It is obvious that Trump has 35% of hardcore supporters in your great nation. I suspect that well over 30% would fall into Clinton's definition of "Deplorables".
Race and Tribalism has always unfortunately been part of the fabric of humans and still is! When you add religious beliefs that maintain your superiority over others it becomes worse. Every religion on it's basic principals have worthwhile guiding principals but have been subverted by false prophets in there hierarchy.
The only way to thwart these demons is through education and understanding and to look at people of different cultures and skin shades as brothers & sisters. The perfect example is my wife when we 1st meet she had been taught that black people were inferior. Through mutual friends she met black people and her mind changed. We were together in Africa with a dynamic black woman and got to meet people and go to places most tourists don't go. My wife was the guiding force in setting up a co-operative for 20 women and children which we financed.



sorry cant let this go.
My lecture of the day!

[stilldropin20]

Dear GTN and pointgod.

Wizardspride and Ruzious almost fall into this category as well.

Do you guys realize that that as long as the D's can use their "race card" dog whistle on you that they will actually never have to do any actual work to earn your vote??? You guys are essentially are single issue voters. Its clear as day. and this issue should mean a lot to you. I applaud you all that is does. But seriously like a twelve year old child, you guys are blind to nuance that could encourage the D's to do more for you.

In short you are allowing the D's to do little to now work at all for your vote. And frankly thats why my beautiful and wonderful south side of chicago is in ruins in many parts. D's control this city locally and federally. Same with baltimore, DC, NY and others. all the same. It is NO MORE apparent the wealth disparity than in these parts. The entire state of california is nearly a welfare state yet the state is also home to many of our wealthiest citizens. Chicago has amazing wealth in many parts. then despair blocks away. And its been run by D's for 50 years!!

Hold your cards closer you your chest. Even bluff once in awhile. get good at it. maybe. just maybe you get so good at it that R's actually think they can win your vote and begin to earnestly work for it. maybe. just maybe even scare the D's with some R votes when a good candidate that works for you comes around.

Give it some thought.

here is what i suggest. You guys have to learn how to become better poker players with your vote. Like I said, I'm a life long and current registered democrat. I dont know many minorities who are not. So try holding your cards closer you your chest. Even bluff once in awhile. get good at it. maybe. just maybe you get so good at it that R's actually think they can win your vote and begin to earnestly work for it. maybe. just maybe even scare the D's with some R votes when a good candidate that works for you comes around. This might light a fire under the D's. they might actually do something for you besides the laziest of campaign rhetoric of all time. "RACIST" I mean seriously. Do they even need to hire anyone in their campaigns? Do any kind of real research to understand what policy might help? anything? Just the ol' racist one liners gets the votes, huh? amazing.

I dont think you guys realize how badly corrupt the DNC has become. and perhaps always was. Again, they serve the most unlikely of 2 masters. the wealthy elites that run the globe and the poorest entitlement class and working poor. and some middle class are still dumb enough to be guilted into voting for them based on some identity politics go nowhere bullcrap.

I mean you guys know the issues. you are informed. You have eyes, right. You see what i see when you drive through poor urban neighborhood, right? Those are what we call the "real results." What your eyes actually see in those neighborhoods. Democratic controlled cities in mostly democratic controlled states. and we just had a democrat in the white house for 16 of the last 24 years.

Give it some thought.

anyway. trump has african-american unemployment at an all time low. I think you may have heard? He's proud of it, too. whatever his motivations he happens to like talking about it. Imagine this for a second. Imagine a white guy, who has been called a white supremecist, that is proud of helping african americans. Again. i dont care about his motivation(which very well can be (altruistic). I care about the results. So just imagine if we arm him with more power to help our cities even moreso. keep in mind this guy is also a life long democrat and lived in NYC his entire life.

Choice is yours. either way. at least become a better gotdamn poker player with you phuckin votes!!!

You aren't a racist but you have absolutely no cohesion to any of your arguments and seem obsesses with the far right. Your views go from communist philosophy at one point to capitalist greed in the next sentence.
Maybe you could learn from the posters you admonish and others like popper and dckingfan and moderat e your prattle.

dude, seriously???? I know who I am. and i'm so frickin mixed its impossible for me to be racist. but seriously you admittedly married a racist!!!!!!!!! sorry not sorry!!! You did!!!!!!! good to see she changed her views. Good to hear you worked on that. But my god, the IRONY here!!!!!!!

and i wont change my views nor moderate my thoughts for you. Some things in communism are good. Many things in capitalism are good. Many things in socialism are good. its bad and greedy people that pervert all of these systems.

But nothing. nothing in racism is good. No part of it. In our american political systems it is very deliberately and well disguised tho. And not where nor how you think. Buyer beware!!!

[cammac]

Every party has its radical elements and independents by that definition have a wide non cohesive variety of views. Even between men and women there views and aspirations diverge. In certain racial groups with American's of Cuban heritage and the rest of the Latinos are a significant political gulf.
Even in the most advanced Democracies there are still far Right movements that show there ugliness.
What makes the Trump/Republican administration different is that it has condoned this blot on civilized society and has used it to its political advantage. It is obvious that Trump has 35% of hardcore supporters in your great nation. I suspect that well over 30% would fall into Clinton's definition of "Deplorables".
Race and Tribalism has always unfortunately been part of the fabric of humans and still is! When you add religious beliefs that maintain your superiority over others it becomes worse. Every religion on it's basic principals have worthwhile guiding principals but have been subverted by false prophets in there hierarchy.
The only way to thwart these demons is through education and understanding and to look at people of different cultures and skin shades as brothers & sisters. The perfect example is my wife when we 1st meet she had been taught that black people were inferior. Through mutual friends she met black people and her mind changed. We were together in Africa with a dynamic black woman and got to meet people and go to places most tourists don't go. My wife was the guiding force in setting up a co-operative for 20 women and children which we financed.



sorry cant let this go.
My lecture of the day!

A example how a societal view can change from a negative to a positive by being exposed to people of color. The realization that everyone is same just a % difference of melon in our skin. The lack of understanding of people in the world is one of the USA's worst failings in that it is a egocentric society without a viable window to the rest of the world. In many ways no different from China. This leads to idiotic comments by Trump about shet hole countries.

[popper]

Gtn and pointgod - I’m curious as to what text you would point to that informs your views on morality.

lol

I don't have a specific text that informs my views on morality.

People should be treated fairly and equitably, and their views and personal decisions should be tolerated as long as they don't harm others. Lots of Republican views harm others. Lots of Republican views perpetuate inequality.

In general religion - and especially evangelicalism - as it's constructed today in America is a laughable charade that is deeply politicized and massively harmful to society. Evangelicals are largely bad people who think they're good people because they vote against abortion. It's a joke.

Religion as a whole is extremely bad for humanity, but I understand a small % of religious people are genuinely good and earnest people and I wouldn't castigate someone for being religious, but I wouldn't tolerate any proselytizing.

I think a major failing in American culture is how little we value our communities around us. If I were running for office I would campaign on building a sense of community in America.

Thank you for your honesty gtn.

Edit - obviously I disagree with many of your judgements and conclusions regarding your post above but we can debate that another day.

[stilldropin20]

Andrew mccabe stepping down.

wray read the memo yesterday. and to corroborate it. NO inaccurancies!!!!!

House voting today at 5pm to release it.

tic tock muthaphuckas!! tic. mutchphuckin. toc!!!

#timesup your completely false, fake, bull crap. absolutely fabricated collusion witch hunt is over!!!!! OVER!!!

lies!! Lies!!! lies!!!