Trade Thread 2: Make your offers here

DanTown8587 · Post #401 » by **DanTown8587** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:41 pm

Taking everything we've known to be true

To Chicago
F Jae Crowder, PF Jon Leur, G/F Malachi Richardson, #1 from Cleveland (BKN pick, top five protected)

To Detroit
PF Niko Mirotic
PG Isiah Thomas

To Cleveland
PG George Hill
G Avery Bradley
#1 via Detroit (top 12 protected), #1 via Denver

To Sacramento
PF Channing Frye
SG Iman Shumpert

Spin off trade with Denver
TPE for PF Darrell Arthur, lotto protected #1
Pondexter for TPE just created (creating TPE for Bulls at Pondexter's salary)
PG Jerian Grant for PG Emmanuel Mudiay

Waived: Quincy Pondexter

Why for Chicago:
They turn their collection of vets + cap space in to the Brooklyn Pick, a few fliers on Mudiay and Richardson. They also get to see if they can recoup any of Crowder's value in a different situation. If the Cleveland/Brooklyn pick stays in Cleveland, the Bulls get the two picks Cleveland gets.

End of the year roster
Dunn/Muiday/Payne
Lavine/Valentine/Nwaba
Holliday/Crowder/Richardson
Lauri/Portis/Leur
Lopez/Felicio/Arthur

Why for Detroit:
They turn Bradley+Smith in to a solid starting PF and drastically upgrade their PG spot in terms of potential with Thomas. He is highly volatile but if he gets back to even 80% of last year, he'd be a huge help to start until Jackson is healthy and then the Pistons can decide what to do. It's a decent gamble: if they make the playoffs then the move likely paid off and if they didn't, they can simply let Thomas walk and then keep Niko in place of Leur on their salary at a much higher potential.

Why for Cleveland:
The obvious refrain is to say this is the Kyrie package getting flipped but it's important to remember how the value of those assets have shifted. This type of deal hurts in the press but really could help shore up their 30th ranked defense. Their new rotation would be something like

Hill - Smith - James - Love - Thompson
Bradley - Wade - Korver - Green

You're not great at say the 4/5 spot in terms of depth but if Channing Frye is the lynchpin of your season, you're in trouble. This deal helps Cleveland save two million in salary (which means they save roughly $10 million in tax payments) as well as hedge on the the Nets pick because if its outside the top 5, they're likely not going to get that much value in the draft and this way, they save some money and address the PG spot for the next year. If James leaves, they simply tank and use the two firsts to build up depth.

Why for Denver:
They're in some serious cap issues with the Jokic deal and this type of deal saves them nearly eight million next year (so they can decline Jokic's fourth year option and resign him as a RFA) and the only cost is really a mid/late first.

Why for Sacrmaento:
They get out of the Hill at a far lower cost for a team trying to tank as well as opens minutes for Fox, Mason.

sco · Post #402 » by **sco** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:01 pm

sco wrote:This sounds crazy, but...

RoLo, Niko, Grant for Love, Rose and BKN pick.

Rids them of 2 problem guys. I think Love is good, but he seems to be a problem and his contract sucks. Niko can help them win now, and, if needed, next year, but his contract is perfect for a team in flux. Also, Robin would be great on Cavs.

Rose can retire a Bull. He can mentor Dunn in the ways of being a high character NBA player and Zach on how to stay healthy (green font).

LOL ABC news suggested something similar:

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/trades-cavs-make-lebron/story?id=52681656

Chicago Bulls

Bulls get: Forward-center Kevin Love, guard, Iman Shumpert, Brooklyn's 2018 first-round pick

Cavaliers get: Forward Nikola Mirotic, center Robin Lopez

View this deal in the ESPN Trade Machine

Jeremias Engelmann:?This sounds like a high price for Mirotic and Lopez, but hear me out. With this deal, the Cavs would improve their shooting, their interior defense, and their payroll -- and their chances of making it back to the Finals and upsetting the Warriors.

And while Love is a star, and the Nets' pick has a certain mystique, the actual value of both is less than meets the eye. Love has an expensive contract (he's owed about $50 million the next two seasons), and the Nets' pick is currently projected to be just No. 6. The past seven No. 6 picks have been Jonathan Isaac, Buddy Hield, Willie Cauley-Stein, Marcus Smart, Nerlens Noel, Damian Lillard and Jan Vesely, with only Lillard becoming a star.

As we know, the chemistry hasn't been great in Cleveland, with Love and his teammates not always seeing eye-to-eye.

Enter Mirotic, a suitable replacement for Love -- in some regards a Love clone. Mirotic is not the rebounder that Love is, but he shoots more 3s and makes them more often. In other ways, their stats per 36 minutes are essentially the same.

And while the Cavs have played eight points better per 100 possessions with Love off the floor, the Bulls have played 13 points better with Mirotic on the floor. And the gap in salary, with Mirotic making about $12 million less this season and next season, adds value to the Mirotic side of the ledger.

Lopez would make up for Love's defensive rebounding. While he averages only five rebounds per game, he's tremendous at boxing out the other bigs - the Bulls have a higher defensive rebounding rate with Lopez on the floor, and that's always been the case for Lopez and his teams. Essentially, he makes sure his teammates grab more rebounds, which boosts team chemistry, which is needed in Cleveland. And he's not afraid to do the dirty work, such as contesting dunks, another quality the Cavs lack.

Dealing Shumpert, who has fallen out of the rotation entirely, and his $10M-per-year contract would also allow the Cavs to save luxury tax money.

IcemanGervin · Post #403 » by **IcemanGervin** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:25 pm

PrimzyBulls81 wrote:Maybe Jabari would welcome fresh start in Chicago..but where to play him? We already have logjam at PF!?
Unless Miro goes and Portis moves 100% to backup C spot

Dunn
LaVine
Parker
Markannen
JJJ(I do believe he could be a 5) /Mo Bamba/FA rim protector

In Hoiball that is a lot of scoring threats from a variety of ways

Adopt the Golden State defensive philosophy of we don't care how much you score we are going to get block/steals and outscore you with our offense. Easier said than done, but defense in the future isn't going to be so much about limiting points it's about creating more scoring opportunities through blocks and steals, which is where I think Golden State has been ahead of the curve. It also helps they have Dray and Klay as individual defenders so I may be completely off base.

NecessaryEvil · Post #404 » by **NecessaryEvil** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:58 pm

PrimzyBulls81 wrote:Maybe Jabari would welcome fresh start in Chicago..but where to play him? We already have logjam at PF!?
Unless Miro goes and Portis moves 100% to backup C spot

Jabari Parker is a SF

NecessaryEvil · Post #405 » by **NecessaryEvil** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:59 pm

IcemanGervin wrote:

Watch on YouTube

Jabari moving really well in this video. You would never know the guy got hurt.

That guy looks good out there.

IcemanGervin · Post #406 » by **IcemanGervin** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:10 pm

NecessaryEvil wrote:
PrimzyBulls81 wrote:Maybe Jabari would welcome fresh start in Chicago..but where to play him? We already have logjam at PF!?
Unless Miro goes and Portis moves 100% to backup C spot

Jabari Parker is a SF

if he shows out in the second half of this season I think it is very possible we make a run at him

StunnerKO · Post #407 » by **StunnerKO** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:22 pm

Read on Twitter

Nikola · Post #408 » by **Nikola** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:49 pm

StunnerKO wrote:

Read on Twitter

Bradley and their pick? Bradely alone makes no sense. I'm assuming we would have to sweeten the deal a bit, but Bradley hasn't been outstanding for them. Ideaaly we would find a third team to take on Bradley.

As for the Love, Shumpert, BK pick for Lopez and Mirotic. Obviously yes please. Love would be easy to move, that would be pure win. Hell I would even take Thompson instead of Shumpert and give them their choice of Val, Grant, or Portis. Oh wait not Portis LOL.

Ccwatercraft · Post #409 » by **Ccwatercraft** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:51 pm

NecessaryEvil wrote:
IcemanGervin wrote:

Watch on YouTube

Jabari moving really well in this video. You would never know the guy got hurt.

That guy looks good out there.

I'd be terrible at the job of "statue" like those kids, I wouldn't be able to resist taking a swipe at the ball.
All ball of course, because I have unbelievably fast hands.

side note: If Wade was doing that same drill would he fall down after the shot?

Belf · Post #410 » by **Belf** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:26 pm

Nikola wrote:
StunnerKO wrote:

Read on Twitter

Bradley and their pick? Bradely alone makes no sense. I'm assuming we would have to sweeten the deal a bit, but Bradley hasn't been outstanding for them. Ideaaly we would find a third team to take on Bradley.

As for the Love, Shumpert, BK pick for Lopez and Mirotic. Obviously yes please. Love would be easy to move, that would be pure win. Hell I would even take Thompson instead of Shumpert and give them their choice of Val, Grant, or Portis. Oh wait not Portis LOL.

OKC gets Avery Bradley from Detroit

Detroit get Niko from Bulls

Bulls get:
1st rd pick from Detroit and Stanley Johnson
1st Round Pick from OKC, and Alex Abrines (and 1 of Terrance Ferguson, Jerami Grant, Raymond Felton, Nick Colision, Josh Heustis to make salary work)

Detroit gets Niko. OKC gets Bradley to replace Robertson in the starting line up. Bulls get 2 1st round picks, Stanley Johnson, and if we are super lucky, Terrance Ferguson (he's really the only player of value out of those guys I listed since hes on rookie a deal. OKC won't want to give him up, but they don't have very good contracts to move. I think both those teams take it. Especially if OKC gets to keep Ferguson. Basically those teams do it because it makes both of them better for the post season, and because they don't take extra salary on. That's why we get both picks. Just casually turning Niko into 2 1st round picks over here. We might have to throw 1 or 2 2nd round picks at DET if they demand it, but we should if they demand a little more to sweeten the deal. It's not like we will have the roster spots for them anyway.

TankForAyton · Post #411 » by **TankForAyton** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:43 pm

sco wrote:
sco wrote:This sounds crazy, but...

RoLo, Niko, Grant for Love, Rose and BKN pick.

Rids them of 2 problem guys. I think Love is good, but he seems to be a problem and his contract sucks. Niko can help them win now, and, if needed, next year, but his contract is perfect for a team in flux. Also, Robin would be great on Cavs.

Rose can retire a Bull. He can mentor Dunn in the ways of being a high character NBA player and Zach on how to stay healthy (green font).

LOL ABC news suggested something similar:

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/trades-cavs-make-lebron/story?id=52681656

Chicago Bulls

Bulls get: Forward-center Kevin Love, guard, Iman Shumpert, Brooklyn's 2018 first-round pick

Cavaliers get: Forward Nikola Mirotic, center Robin Lopez

View this deal in the ESPN Trade Machine

Jeremias Engelmann:?This sounds like a high price for Mirotic and Lopez, but hear me out. With this deal, the Cavs would improve their shooting, their interior defense, and their payroll -- and their chances of making it back to the Finals and upsetting the Warriors.

And while Love is a star, and the Nets' pick has a certain mystique, the actual value of both is less than meets the eye. Love has an expensive contract (he's owed about $50 million the next two seasons), and the Nets' pick is currently projected to be just No. 6. The past seven No. 6 picks have been Jonathan Isaac, Buddy Hield, Willie Cauley-Stein, Marcus Smart, Nerlens Noel, Damian Lillard and Jan Vesely, with only Lillard becoming a star.

As we know, the chemistry hasn't been great in Cleveland, with Love and his teammates not always seeing eye-to-eye.

Enter Mirotic, a suitable replacement for Love -- in some regards a Love clone. Mirotic is not the rebounder that Love is, but he shoots more 3s and makes them more often. In other ways, their stats per 36 minutes are essentially the same.

And while the Cavs have played eight points better per 100 possessions with Love off the floor, the Bulls have played 13 points better with Mirotic on the floor. And the gap in salary, with Mirotic making about $12 million less this season and next season, adds value to the Mirotic side of the ledger.

Lopez would make up for Love's defensive rebounding. While he averages only five rebounds per game, he's tremendous at boxing out the other bigs - the Bulls have a higher defensive rebounding rate with Lopez on the floor, and that's always been the case for Lopez and his teams. Essentially, he makes sure his teammates grab more rebounds, which boosts team chemistry, which is needed in Cleveland. And he's not afraid to do the dirty work, such as contesting dunks, another quality the Cavs lack.

Dealing Shumpert, who has fallen out of the rotation entirely, and his $10M-per-year contract would also allow the Cavs to save luxury tax money.

So, Cleveland gives up the best two assets in Love and BKN pick for Robin Lopez and Niko? This is comically bad for Cleveland.

Belf · Post #412 » by **Belf** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:18 pm

TankForAyton wrote:So, Cleveland gives up the best two assets in Love and BKN pick for Robin Lopez and Niko? This is comically bad for Cleveland.

I posed a similar trade earlier in the Cleveland board and basically got run out of there. The real issue is that no one over there has heard of anyone on the Bulls roster

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7001563

CLE gets: N. Mirotic, R. Lopez, J. Holiday (CHI), D. Favors (Utah)
Utah gets: Love (CLE)
CHI gets: JR Smith, I. Shumpert, J. Calderon (CLE), J. Johnson (Utah), 2018 Nets Pick (CLE)

Cleveland gets a post-season line-up of:

PG: Thomas / Rose
SG: Holiday / Korver / Wade
SF: LBJ / Green / Crowder
PF: Favors / Mirotic
C: Thompson / Lopez

They can challenge for the East with that group, and shed salary (all of the Bulls players are on 2 year deals). Utah gets Love under contract to pair with Gobert for his prime years, so they’d probably be all for it. We do it for the Net's pick.

The trade I proposed allows CLE to challenge for a title this year, which they aren't currently. It also takes away long term money from their team which will help in the rebuild that IS going to happen when LBJ leaves next year. This deal gives them flexibility to sign FA's or to pivot hard into a rebuild next year if they choose to. Also they are replacing Love with a guy who is 26, under contract for next year at $12.5m (team option) which is half of what Love is making, shooting 44% from 3pt, with a PER of 23 who will probably win the 6th man of the year award... seems worth it.

Next season their roster if they choose to go FA route looks like this:
PG: Thomas(if resigned) / FA
SG: Holiday / Korver (solid if unspectacular pairing)
SF: Crowder (or FA) / Osman (their 1st round pick from last year)
PF: Mirotic / Crowder (solid pairing)
C: Thompson / Lopez (solid pairing)

That's not a terrible roster. They can fill in with FA's or move Holiday and Crowder around to plug holes on the wings however they choose. If they want to rebuild, they have guys next year in Mirotic (mid/late 1st rounder), Lopez (2nd rounder), Holiday (2nd rounder) on expiring deals who can probably fetch them the (value) that I've attached. Again not bad for a chance to win the East and at least have a 7 game shot at GSW this year and moving on from some terrible contracts.

That was basically exactly what I typed out to them only I went back through and changed all the "you/your" to "their" so you don't have to read it from the point of view of a Cavs fan.

JohnnyTapwater · Post #413 » by **JohnnyTapwater** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:59 pm

Would be a steal if we can someone get Jabari Parker here.

or..

if we can get a first from Detroit... a 1st from OKC or Ferguson or whatever... that would be amazing...

I think we'd need another body to make the money match..

NecessaryEvil · Post #414 » by **NecessaryEvil** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:16 pm

Belf wrote:
Nikola wrote:
StunnerKO wrote:

Read on Twitter

Bradley and their pick? Bradely alone makes no sense. I'm assuming we would have to sweeten the deal a bit, but Bradley hasn't been outstanding for them. Ideaaly we would find a third team to take on Bradley.

As for the Love, Shumpert, BK pick for Lopez and Mirotic. Obviously yes please. Love would be easy to move, that would be pure win. Hell I would even take Thompson instead of Shumpert and give them their choice of Val, Grant, or Portis. Oh wait not Portis LOL.

OKC gets Avery Bradley from Detroit

Detroit get Niko from Bulls

Bulls get:
1st rd pick from Detroit and Stanley Johnson
1st Round Pick from OKC, and Alex Abrines (and 1 of Terrance Ferguson, Jerami Grant, Raymond Felton, Nick Colision, Josh Heustis to make salary work)

Detroit gets Niko. OKC gets Bradley to replace Robertson in the starting line up. Bulls get 2 1st round picks, Stanley Johnson, and if we are super lucky, Terrance Ferguson (he's really the only player of value out of those guys I listed since hes on rookie a deal. OKC won't want to give him up, but they don't have very good contracts to move. I think both those teams take it. Especially if OKC gets to keep Ferguson. Basically those teams do it because it makes both of them better for the post season, and because they don't take extra salary on. That's why we get both picks. Just casually turning Niko into 2 1st round picks over here.

StunnerKO · Post #415 » by **StunnerKO** » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:08 am

Read on Twitter

ChiCitySPORTS#1 · Post #416 » by **ChiCitySPORTS#1** » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:30 am

IcemanGervin wrote:
NecessaryEvil wrote:
PrimzyBulls81 wrote:Maybe Jabari would welcome fresh start in Chicago..but where to play him? We already have logjam at PF!?
Unless Miro goes and Portis moves 100% to backup C spot

Jabari Parker is a SF

if he shows out in the second half of this season I think it is very possible we make a run at him

Read on Twitter

TeK · Post #417 » by **TeK** » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:40 am

StunnerKO wrote:

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Out of nowhere.

You would figure we could have matched that deal. Could have been nice to partner Blake with Zach, in the east....you know, for at least the next 5yrs.

I wonder if this means Jordan to CLE now, killing a potential Niko deal.

ChiTownHero1992 · Post #418 » by **ChiTownHero1992** » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:56 am

Jordan likely to MIL or CLE in the coming days before deadline.

Nucky Thompson · Post #419 » by **Nucky Thompson** » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:09 am

Wow, what an awful trade by the Clippers. Terrible. What are they doing!?!?

ChettheJet · Post #420 » by **ChettheJet** » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:21 am

The Griffin trade closes DET for a Mirotic trade but also puts pressure on CLE to do something. It leaves UTAH with fewer destinations for Hood since the Clippers got several wing players and DET gave up quite few assets that they could have used for Hood.