Show over Substance... Tom Gores

[GreekAlex]

This move has Tom Gores signature all over it. He has decided to put his Hollywood stamp on the Pistons to create some excitement but the vision is shortsighted.

Blake Griffin may bring some fans to LCA this season but move is fools gold and just setting up the franchise for a longer period of disappointment. There's a reason the Clippers were ready to move on and it's a shame they were able to capitalize on SVGs desperation.

The common denominator to all successful sports franchises is getting the most value out of the contracts they pay out. One part is the most talent/ production per contract and the other is getting the most durability/ least injured players. SVG has been overpaying bench players and now he's doubled down on a player with a massive contract and injury concerns.

This has the feel of what the Tigers tried to do with throwing big money at big names and it's never worked even in a sport with no salary cap. I hope I'm wrong and I've tried to reframe this trade to make me feel better but just doesn't make sense and it's scary when your professional basketball minds like SVG & Bowers have ulterior motives that don't allow them to see the reality.

This trade isn't Tobias, Bradley & a 1st vs. Griffin. It's about reducing flexibility and having his contract as an anchor when you really need to get younger and build the right way.

[zeebneeb]

As I have stated a variety of times on different topics concerning the Pistons;

Give it time. Lets see how it plays out. NO ONE knows if this is a great, good, poor, terrible move yet.

Same as rookie. Can't assess the situation until it actually unfolds.

This also may not be the only move as well. The only thing we know for sure is that the team now has the best, or in the very least a top 3 front court in the league. 2 all-nba players.

How they mesh is something we have to see before making any kind of judgment. All I know is that this should be a great combo as Blake is used to playing with almost the exact same player so the transition should be swift.

[thesack12]

The Clips made their decision to start to tear it down before the season started by trading CP3. Moving Griffin was just the next step. Next will be moving Deandre Jordan.

What flexibility are you worried about reducing? The kind that brings the likes of these guys to Detroit?..

Ben Gordon
Charlie Villanueva
Josh Smith
Jodie Meeks
Aron Baynes
Jon Leuer
Boban Marjanovic
Langston Galloway

[vic]

The common denominator to all successful sports franchises is getting the most value out of the contracts they pay out. One part is the most talent/ production per contract and the other is getting the most durability/ least injured players. SVG has been overpaying bench players and now he's doubled down on a player with a massive contract and injury concerns.

THIS. Is the Core of all Sports Math.
It's so disappointing to have a front office whose vision is only 2 feet ahead of their own two feet.

[GreekAlex]

The Clips made their decision to start to tear it down before the season started by trading CP3. Moving Griffin was just the next step. Next will be moving Deandre Jordan.

What flexibility are you worried about reducing? The kind that brings the likes of these guys to Detroit?..

Ben Gordon
Charlie Villanueva
Josh Smith
Jodie Meeks
Aron Baynes
Jon Leuer
Boban Marjanovic
Langston Galloway

The flexibility I'm referring to is not cap space related. It's not locking 35% of the cap into a player who is often sidelined.

Derrick Rose has played more games over the last 3 seasons. Let that sink in.

Expecting him to become more durable later in his career as he ages is pretty naive.

[thesack12]

The Clips made their decision to start to tear it down before the season started by trading CP3. Moving Griffin was just the next step. Next will be moving Deandre Jordan.

What flexibility are you worried about reducing? The kind that brings the likes of these guys to Detroit?..

Ben Gordon
Charlie Villanueva
Josh Smith
Jodie Meeks
Aron Baynes
Jon Leuer
Boban Marjanovic
Langston Galloway

The flexibility I'm referring to is not cap space related. It's not locking 35% of the cap into a player who is often sidelined.

Derrick Rose has played more games over the last 3 seasons. Let that sink in.

Expecting him to become more durable later in his career as he ages is pretty naive.

You say its not cap related, then mention Blake being 35% of the cap in the same breath. That confuses me...

One big difference between Rose and Griffin is Blake as been able to grow his overall game and skillset so he doesn't have to rely on his athleticism as much. Rose, has been unable to do that.

Also, every player in every sport is always 1 play away from disastrous injury.

[GreekAlex]

The Clips made their decision to start to tear it down before the season started by trading CP3. Moving Griffin was just the next step. Next will be moving Deandre Jordan.

What flexibility are you worried about reducing? The kind that brings the likes of these guys to Detroit?..

Ben Gordon
Charlie Villanueva
Josh Smith
Jodie Meeks
Aron Baynes
Jon Leuer
Boban Marjanovic
Langston Galloway

The flexibility I'm referring to is not cap space related. It's not locking 35% of the cap into a player who is often sidelined.

Derrick Rose has played more games over the last 3 seasons. Let that sink in.

Expecting him to become more durable later in his career as he ages is pretty naive.

You say its not cap related, then mention Blake being 35% of the cap in the same breath. That confuses me...

One big difference between Rose and Griffin is Blake as been able to grow his overall game and skillset so he doesn't have to rely on his athleticism as much. Rose, has been unable to do that.

Also, every player in every sport is always 1 play away from disastrous injury.

To clarify, I meant it's not about salary cap for free agent signings. It's about flexibility with tradable pieces and flexible assets.

I agree that Griffins game has evolved and isn't as dependent on his athleticism as he once was but it doesn't negate his injury history. The fact he's not as explosive and still finding ways to get hurt is even more concerning.

Saying any player is one play away from a disastrous injury is laughable. That's like saying any car is one ride away from being totaled. Well I'll pass on the expensive car that has a history of maintenance problems.

This trade will make this season more watchable and that I will enjoy like everyone else but it's the future ramifications that bother me.

[nedleeds]

Isn't it mostly about Blake's health? 15% chance he's healthy for this contract and it doesn't look so bad. But the delta between Harris and Blake just isn't as wide as ESPN would have you believe.

[thesack12]

The flexibility I'm referring to is not cap space related. It's not locking 35% of the cap into a player who is often sidelined.

Derrick Rose has played more games over the last 3 seasons. Let that sink in.

Expecting him to become more durable later in his career as he ages is pretty naive.

You say its not cap related, then mention Blake being 35% of the cap in the same breath. That confuses me...

One big difference between Rose and Griffin is Blake as been able to grow his overall game and skillset so he doesn't have to rely on his athleticism as much. Rose, has been unable to do that.

Also, every player in every sport is always 1 play away from disastrous injury.

To clarify, I meant it's not about salary cap for free agent signings. It's about flexibility with tradable pieces and flexible assets.

I agree that Griffins game has evolved and isn't as dependent on his athleticism as he once was but it doesn't negate his injury history. The fact he's not as explosive and still finding ways to get hurt is even more concerning.

Saying any player is one play away from a disastrous injury is laughable. That's like saying any car is one ride away from being totaled. Well I'll pass on the expensive car that has a history of maintenance problems.

Antonio McDyess was plagued with injuries throughout his career before he got to Detroit. In Detroit he was an iron man. Just because a player has had bad luck in the past, doesn't mean they will forever be cursed.

Laugh all you want, but its the truth. All it takes is for Curry or Durant or LeBron to come down on someone's foot wrong and suddenly it changes the entire landscape of the NBA. Boogie rupturing his achilles in a seemingly tame fashion by chasing down a rebound. It can even be a complete freak thing, like when Roberson was going up for that uncontested alley oop, but blew out his kneecap while doing so.

[GreekAlex]

You say its not cap related, then mention Blake being 35% of the cap in the same breath. That confuses me...

One big difference between Rose and Griffin is Blake as been able to grow his overall game and skillset so he doesn't have to rely on his athleticism as much. Rose, has been unable to do that.

Also, every player in every sport is always 1 play away from disastrous injury.

To clarify, I meant it's not about salary cap for free agent signings. It's about flexibility with tradable pieces and flexible assets.

I agree that Griffins game has evolved and isn't as dependent on his athleticism as he once was but it doesn't negate his injury history. The fact he's not as explosive and still finding ways to get hurt is even more concerning.

Saying any player is one play away from a disastrous injury is laughable. That's like saying any car is one ride away from being totaled. Well I'll pass on the expensive car that has a history of maintenance problems.

Antonio McDyess was plagued with injuries throughout his career before he got to Detroit. In Detroit he was an iron man. Just because a player has had bad luck in the past, doesn't mean they will forever be cursed.

Laugh all you want, but its the truth. All it takes is for Curry or Durant or LeBron to come down on someone's foot wrong and suddenly it changes the entire landscape of the NBA. Boogie rupturing his achilles in a seemingly tame fashion by chasing down a rebound. It can even be a complete freak thing, like when Roberson was going up for that uncontested alley oop, but blew out his kneecap while doing so.

You're missing key points. Antonio McDyess took the MLE and was signed to be a final piece to a contender. Griffins contract is huge and he's being brought in as a focal point not a complimentary piece. If Dyess was hurt it wouldn't cripple the franchise.

Again, I understand any player could get hurt but I like to consider the players track record when envisioning the future. All players have a career trajectory and I hate being committed to Blake Griffin for 5 years when everything is considered.

[thesack12]

To clarify, I meant it's not about salary cap for free agent signings. It's about flexibility with tradable pieces and flexible assets.

I agree that Griffins game has evolved and isn't as dependent on his athleticism as he once was but it doesn't negate his injury history. The fact he's not as explosive and still finding ways to get hurt is even more concerning.

Saying any player is one play away from a disastrous injury is laughable. That's like saying any car is one ride away from being totaled. Well I'll pass on the expensive car that has a history of maintenance problems.

Antonio McDyess was plagued with injuries throughout his career before he got to Detroit. In Detroit he was an iron man. Just because a player has had bad luck in the past, doesn't mean they will forever be cursed.

Laugh all you want, but its the truth. All it takes is for Curry or Durant or LeBron to come down on someone's foot wrong and suddenly it changes the entire landscape of the NBA. Boogie rupturing his achilles in a seemingly tame fashion by chasing down a rebound. It can even be a complete freak thing, like when Roberson was going up for that uncontested alley oop, but blew out his kneecap while doing so.

You're missing key points. Antonio McDyess took the MLE and was signed to be a final piece to a contender. Griffins contract is huge and he's being brought in as a focal point not a complimentary piece. If Dyess was hurt it wouldn't cripple the franchise.

Again, I understand any player could get hurt but I like to consider the players track record when envisioning the future. All players have a career trajectory and I hate being committed to Blake Griffin for 5 years when everything is considered.

Yeah, I realize the extenuating circumstances involved. If Dyess wasn't injury plagued, he never would have been an option for Detroit's MLE. If Blake was the definition of health, he probably isn't available for the ho-hum package Detroit got him for.

I realize the risk involved, but at the same time I also can appreciate the potential huge reward involved as well. IMO this is a gamble that was well worth taking for Detroit.

Have you seen the going rate for franchise players these days? Toronto has $60 mil/season wrapped up in Lowry and DeRozan

[reppin_the_847]

Can't fault Gores completely. The average ticket price for a Pistons ticket (as of March 2017) was roughly $44. LCA is typically only at 83% capacity tops. So 17% of the arena is empty. Capacity of the building is 20,491. They are averaging 17,419 paid tickets right now. There are also probably a ton of no-shows (that bought tickets or had access to corporate tickets) that won't show up and therefore won't be spending money on food & drinks inside of the arena. I'm not even going to count those. You got about 3,072 fans officially missing from the arena every game not even counting paid no-shows. So about $135,168 of revenue per game is being missed out. Over the course of a regular season with 41 home games, this is about $5,541,888 of missing dollars a year minimum. And those same people that could've bought tickets would usually buy food & drinks inside the arena as well. So I can't fault Tom Gores completely when they might be bleeding money right now.

[GreekAlex]

Antonio McDyess was plagued with injuries throughout his career before he got to Detroit. In Detroit he was an iron man. Just because a player has had bad luck in the past, doesn't mean they will forever be cursed.

Laugh all you want, but its the truth. All it takes is for Curry or Durant or LeBron to come down on someone's foot wrong and suddenly it changes the entire landscape of the NBA. Boogie rupturing his achilles in a seemingly tame fashion by chasing down a rebound. It can even be a complete freak thing, like when Roberson was going up for that uncontested alley oop, but blew out his kneecap while doing so.

You're missing key points. Antonio McDyess took the MLE and was signed to be a final piece to a contender. Griffins contract is huge and he's being brought in as a focal point not a complimentary piece. If Dyess was hurt it wouldn't cripple the franchise.

Again, I understand any player could get hurt but I like to consider the players track record when envisioning the future. All players have a career trajectory and I hate being committed to Blake Griffin for 5 years when everything is considered.

Yeah, I realize the extenuating circumstances involved. If Dyess wasn't injury plagued, he never would have been an option for Detroit's MLE. If Blake was the definition of health, he probably isn't available for the ho-hum package Detroit got him for.

I realize the risk involved, but at the same time I also can appreciate the potential huge reward involved as well. IMO this is a gamble that was well worth taking for Detroit.

Have you seen the going rate for franchise players these days? Toronto has $60 mil/season wrapped up in Lowry and DeRozan

Don't worry... Toronto will never win anything with that group either.

[Billl]

Not sure why the contracts come as a shock to anyone. Star players are going to get max contracts. If you don't think Blake is good enough to be in that star category based on his injuries, just argue that. Anyone worth building around is going to be on the same type of max contract.

[GreekAlex]

Not sure why the contracts come as a shock to anyone. Star players are going to get max contracts. If you don't think Blake is good enough to be in that star category based on his injuries, just argue that. Anyone worth building around is going to be on the same type of max contract.

You only acquire a player like this if you are going to contend for for a title during the life of the contract.

[RasheedTupac]

I don’t get why people hate this move lol we weren’t tanking and with our squad before we were really bad and capped out.. low risk high reward move.


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[GreekAlex]

I don’t get why people hate this move lol we weren’t tanking and with our squad before we were really bad and capped out.. low risk high reward move.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

"Low risk" is the misconception.

SVG has painted himself into a corner and if this doesn't work he's stuck for 5 years.

Derrick Rose has played more games in the last 3 seasons. Let that sink in.

[Billl]

Not sure why the contracts come as a shock to anyone. Star players are going to get max contracts. If you don't think Blake is good enough to be in that star category based on his injuries, just argue that. Anyone worth building around is going to be on the same type of max contract.

You only acquire a player like this if you are going to contend for for a title during the life of the contract.

Blake is 28. I sure hope we plan on not sucking sometime in the next 5 years.

But no, I don't agree with only signing a superstar if you are sure fire contenders. You sign the star 100% of the time and then figure out the rest.

[GreekAlex]

Not sure why the contracts come as a shock to anyone. Star players are going to get max contracts. If you don't think Blake is good enough to be in that star category based on his injuries, just argue that. Anyone worth building around is going to be on the same type of max contract.

You only acquire a player like this if you are going to contend for for a title during the life of the contract.

Blake is 28. I sure hope we plan on not sucking sometime in the next 5 years.

But no, I don't agree with only signing a superstar if you are sure fire contenders. You sign the star 100% of the time and then figure out the rest.

Can you see a scenario where a Drummond/Griffin core wins a championship?

[theBigLip]

Can't fault Gores completely. The average ticket price for a Pistons ticket (as of March 2017) was roughly $44. LCA is typically only at 83% capacity tops. So 17% of the arena is empty. Capacity of the building is 20,491. They are averaging 17,419 paid tickets right now. There are also probably a ton of no-shows (that bought tickets or had access to corporate tickets) that won't show up and therefore won't be spending money on food & drinks inside of the arena. I'm not even going to count those. You got about 3,072 fans officially missing from the arena every game not even counting paid no-shows. So about $135,168 of revenue per game is being missed out. Over the course of a regular season with 41 home games, this is about $5,541,888 of missing dollars a year minimum. And those same people that could've bought tickets would usually buy food & drinks inside the arena as well. So I can't fault Tom Gores completely when they might be bleeding money right now.

Nice analysis, although Gores isn't exactly bleeding money when you consider what he bought the franchise for and what it is worth now.