Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 6

[stilldropin20]

Bron or no Bron. #timesup on iso-ball 2nd tier stars.

Lebron james is the only iso-centric player on the planet that can give you chance against a team that moves the ball and moves without the ball and play for each other in a way that is not conducive to stat stacking.

and it tough. because the stat stuffers get all the off court money as well as most of the on court money. Tough to turn that down and play the game right.

There's been a new paradigm. brought to you by popovich kerr perfected it. GSW just do it right. No one can beat them without playing the same style. You must have high volume 3 point shooters at 3-4 positions that are willing defenders. low minutes. pace. space. put up shots. defend. get off the court so legs stay fresh as 3 point shooters need fresh legs to keep percentages up. 10 deep.

thats what you need to have a chance.

picking up Bradley and harris is a step in this new paradigm direction.

Good for Doc. i had him pegged as a dinosaur. Then again, this could be all coming from the new owner.

embrace it or get steam rolled.

[Ruzious]

Bron or no Bron. #timesup on iso-ball 2nd tier stars.

Lebron james is the only iso-centric player on the planet that can give you chance against a team that moves the ball and moves without the ball and play for each other in a way that is not conducive to stat stacking.

and it tough. because the stat stuffers get all the off court money as well as most of the on court money. Tough to turn that down and play the game right.

There's been a new paradigm. brought to you by popovich kerr perfected it. GSW just do it right. No one can beat them without playing the same style. You must have high volume 3 point shooters at 3-4 positions that are willing defenders. low minutes. pace. space. put up shots. defend. get off the court so legs stay fresh as 3 point shooters need fresh legs to keep percentages up. 10 deep.

thats what you need to have a chance.

picking up Bradley and harris is a step in this new paradigm direction.

Good for Doc. i had him pegged as a dinosaur. Then again, this could be all coming from the new owner.

embrace it or get steam rolled.

All this is going to do for the Clippers is ensure they stay a mediocre team or less. Harris is ok, but he's no Griffin and is gonna cost a lot to re-sign - if they even re-sign him. I doubt they even try to keep Bradley - who's a good defender but also an inefficient scorer who's not a 1 and is small for a 2. The better move would have been to trade Griffin earlier and tank for this season and next and then use the ton of cap room to augment 2 high lotto picks. Instead, they're likely going to be mired in mediocrity and might have trouble attracting free agents due to their mis-management of this situation.

[I_Like_Dirt]

All this is going to do for the Clippers is ensure they stay a mediocre team or less. Harris is ok, but he's no Griffin and is gonna cost a lot to re-sign - if they even re-sign him. I doubt they even try to keep Bradley - who's a good defender but also an inefficient scorer who's not a 1 and is small for a 2. The better move would have been to trade Griffin earlier and tank for this season and next and then use the ton of cap room to augment 2 high lotto picks. Instead, they're likely going to be mired in mediocrity and might have trouble attracting free agents due to their mis-management of this situation.

They were going to be mired in mediocrity with Blake Griffin. I kinda suspect the amount of teams willing to offer massive salary relief for Griffin was in the vicinity of 0. Teams with the ability to save cap aren't teams that want a player like Griffin. And I doubt the Clippers are really going to want to target free agents anyway. To be honest, I feel the Pistons just cemented themselves into Bobcats territory, where they may or may not make the playoffs in any given year, but their ability to shake their inevitable 7th-10th place finish is extremely weak. The Clippers probably aren't a worse regular season team for this trade - worse in the playoffs, but they weren't winning a round anyway. Given Cousins' injury, I think theClippers still make the playoffs despite the Pels pulling the Ernie special and giving up a 1st rounder for Mirotic. Potentially make the playoffs, offload an unwanted contract and add a 1st rounder in the process? I'm not sure I see the downside for the Clippers outside of marketing and having a big name star on the roster. The only downside is if they pay big money to keep Bradley and/or Harris, which I suspect they won't. For the Pistons, I really don't see the upside.

[stilldropin20]

Bron or no Bron. #timesup on iso-ball 2nd tier stars.

Lebron james is the only iso-centric player on the planet that can give you chance against a team that moves the ball and moves without the ball and play for each other in a way that is not conducive to stat stacking.

and it tough. because the stat stuffers get all the off court money as well as most of the on court money. Tough to turn that down and play the game right.

There's been a new paradigm. brought to you by popovich kerr perfected it. GSW just do it right. No one can beat them without playing the same style. You must have high volume 3 point shooters at 3-4 positions that are willing defenders. low minutes. pace. space. put up shots. defend. get off the court so legs stay fresh as 3 point shooters need fresh legs to keep percentages up. 10 deep.

thats what you need to have a chance.

picking up Bradley and harris is a step in this new paradigm direction.

Good for Doc. i had him pegged as a dinosaur. Then again, this could be all coming from the new owner.

embrace it or get steam rolled.

All this is going to do for the Clippers is ensure they stay a mediocre team or less. Harris is ok, but he's no Griffin and is gonna cost a lot to re-sign - if they even re-sign him. I doubt they even try to keep Bradley - who's a good defender but also an inefficient scorer who's not a 1 and is small for a 2. The better move would have been to trade Griffin earlier and tank for this season and next and then use the ton of cap room to augment 2 high lotto picks. Instead, they're likely going to be mired in mediocrity and might have trouble attracting free agents due to their mis-management of this situation.

agree. this should have been a tank season for them given Paul was gone.

One of the things that really rang a bell for me as a bulls fan over the last 8 years is how detrimental it is to e tied down to a selfish 2nd tier star like derrick rose and jimmy butler. while jimmy may be learning how to play team ball and is also a willing defender he still holds the ball extra long.

Shaq said it best a few nights ago. even holding that ball just an extra single second throws the entire offense off. The cutter is no longer open. the ball never gets delivered. The cutters stop cutting.

and the biggest culprit are the off ball players that wont take themselves out of the play by something simple like a down screen. every single damn NBA player wants to be the cutter and receive the ball. so they dont set down screens because you dont get a shot nor an assist. and the cutters dont reward down screeners by setting the down screen next time down the court. watching derrick rose never move off ball almost killed basketball for me. i sold my season tickets.

Thank god Hoiberg has th ebulls playing right this year. until Dunn's performances went to his head and then zach came back and is basically playing iso ball like Jimmy butler did. But zach isn't even good at it.

I see blake griffin as that exact same type of player. besides the pick and roll. he just stands there. does nothing. waits for his turn to go iso. its 2000's basketball brought to you by none other that micheal jordan (except the bulls moved the ball most of the time even if MJ and scottie took all the shots). yuck!

I thank the basketball gods for Steph curry, Klay Thompson and Draymond green nearly every single day. They saved the game of basketball.

[Ruzious]

All this is going to do for the Clippers is ensure they stay a mediocre team or less. Harris is ok, but he's no Griffin and is gonna cost a lot to re-sign - if they even re-sign him. I doubt they even try to keep Bradley - who's a good defender but also an inefficient scorer who's not a 1 and is small for a 2. The better move would have been to trade Griffin earlier and tank for this season and next and then use the ton of cap room to augment 2 high lotto picks. Instead, they're likely going to be mired in mediocrity and might have trouble attracting free agents due to their mis-management of this situation.

They were going to be mired in mediocrity with Blake Griffin. I kinda suspect the amount of teams willing to offer massive salary relief for Griffin was in the vicinity of 0. Teams with the ability to save cap aren't teams that want a player like Griffin. And I doubt the Clippers are really going to want to target free agents anyway. To be honest, I feel the Pistons just cemented themselves into Bobcats territory, where they may or may not make the playoffs in any given year, but their ability to shake their inevitable 7th-10th place finish is extremely weak. The Clippers probably aren't a worse regular season team for this trade - worse in the playoffs, but they weren't winning a round anyway. Given Cousins' injury, I think theClippers still make the playoffs despite the Pels pulling the Ernie special and giving up a 1st rounder for Mirotic. Potentially make the playoffs, offload an unwanted contract and add a 1st rounder in the process? I'm not sure I see the downside for the Clippers outside of marketing and having a big name star on the roster. The only downside is if they pay big money to keep Bradley and/or Harris, which I suspect they won't. For the Pistons, I really don't see the upside.

Usually the team that gets the best player wins the trade, and Griffin is by far the best player in the deal. But yeah - Griffin is not a particularly good complement to Drummond. So basically... I don't think either team won the trade, but Detroit at least upgraded their talent level, and they can later trade Drummond for a lot more than they gave to get Griffin. It's also not as if the Pistons were going anywhere as is - after losing their last 8. This at least gives them a chance to right the ship and make the playoffs - which would be good for the franchise.

[stilldropin20]

All this is going to do for the Clippers is ensure they stay a mediocre team or less. Harris is ok, but he's no Griffin and is gonna cost a lot to re-sign - if they even re-sign him. I doubt they even try to keep Bradley - who's a good defender but also an inefficient scorer who's not a 1 and is small for a 2. The better move would have been to trade Griffin earlier and tank for this season and next and then use the ton of cap room to augment 2 high lotto picks. Instead, they're likely going to be mired in mediocrity and might have trouble attracting free agents due to their mis-management of this situation.

They were going to be mired in mediocrity with Blake Griffin. I kinda suspect the amount of teams willing to offer massive salary relief for Griffin was in the vicinity of 0. Teams with the ability to save cap aren't teams that want a player like Griffin. And I doubt the Clippers are really going to want to target free agents anyway. To be honest, I feel the Pistons just cemented themselves into Bobcats territory, where they may or may not make the playoffs in any given year, but their ability to shake their inevitable 7th-10th place finish is extremely weak. The Clippers probably aren't a worse regular season team for this trade - worse in the playoffs, but they weren't winning a round anyway. Given Cousins' injury, I think theClippers still make the playoffs despite the Pels pulling the Ernie special and giving up a 1st rounder for Mirotic. Potentially make the playoffs, offload an unwanted contract and add a 1st rounder in the process? I'm not sure I see the downside for the Clippers outside of marketing and having a big name star on the roster. The only downside is if they pay big money to keep Bradley and/or Harris, which I suspect they won't. For the Pistons, I really don't see the upside.

Usually the team that gets the best player wins the trade, and Griffin is by far the best player in the deal. But yeah - Griffin is not a particularly good complement to Drummond. So basically... I don't think either team won the trade, but Detroit at least upgraded their talent level, and they can later trade Drummond for a lot more than they gave to get Griffin. It's also not as if the Pistons were going anywhere as is - after losing their last 8. This at least gives them a chance to right the ship and make the playoffs - which would be good for the franchise.

detroit won off court. they got a star to put butts in seats. that about it. LA won trade because they get out Griffins terrible contract. and get ball movement type players back. this is just step 1 for LA. harris and bradley may or may not stick. but at least they can change the style of play to a pace and space ball movement type of offense.

[Ruzious]

Interesting takes, SD. Good discussion. I do agree with your points about the importance of moving the ball.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Usually the team that gets the best player wins the trade, and Griffin is by far the best player in the deal. But yeah - Griffin is not a particularly good complement to Drummond. So basically... I don't think either team won the trade, but Detroit at least upgraded their talent level, and they can later trade Drummond for a lot more than they gave to get Griffin. It's also not as if the Pistons were going anywhere as is - after losing their last 8. This at least gives them a chance to right the ship and make the playoffs - which would be good for the franchise.

This explanation of the Pistons' side of things sounds downright Grunfeldian. Maybe the Pistons can trade Drummond for more than they traded to get Griffin, but they aren't going to be able to trade Griffin for more. And I'm not convinced Drummond's value is all that high, either. They've been trying to trade Drummond for a while. Honestly, most Cs have been on the market and teams have been avoiding trading them because they aren't finding any returns. Players like Whiteside, Valanciunas, Drummond, etc. would be gone in a second if their teams could find teams willing to pay up.

Drummond is having a good year by his standards, but he's been honestly much worse than his reputation would suggest in previous seasons. The Pistons starters have been destroyed all season, and while Griffin is a massive upgrade, if they have to play Stanley Johnson more, that's a massive downgrade. Teams in the modern NBA win by getting the best player only if they can in turn find complementary players to replace the ones they've lost, which is usually easier than finding a star. In the Pistons' case, they're stuck trying to flip the likes of Leuer, Galloway and Ish Smith. But maybe adding Griffin makes teams more willing to give up quality for Reggie Jackson? I really don't see it.

I didn't think the Pelicans made out like bandits in the Cousins trade despite everyone jumping in, and I like this trade even less for the Pistons. Honestly, this just cements them as worse than the Wizards year in and year out, and just as likely to see an injury to one of their key players. Find the players that are going to actually move the needle at some point and get those players. Jerry West has clearly always understood that point and is at it again, breaking down the Clippers while adding trade flexibility come draft time. SVG clearly doesn't understand that point. His GM-ing skills are downright Doc Riversian. The Clippers haven't hurt their chances this season while opening up all sorts of flexibility moving forward. They clearly won this trade in a similar way to how the Hawks won the Dwight Howard trade despite only getting a Plumlee and a 2nd rounder or two for him.

[Ruzious]

Usually the team that gets the best player wins the trade, and Griffin is by far the best player in the deal. But yeah - Griffin is not a particularly good complement to Drummond. So basically... I don't think either team won the trade, but Detroit at least upgraded their talent level, and they can later trade Drummond for a lot more than they gave to get Griffin. It's also not as if the Pistons were going anywhere as is - after losing their last 8. This at least gives them a chance to right the ship and make the playoffs - which would be good for the franchise.

This explanation of the Pistons' side of things sounds downright Grunfeldian. Maybe the Pistons can trade Drummond for more than they traded to get Griffin, but they aren't going to be able to trade Griffin for more. And I'm not convinced Drummond's value is all that high, either. They've been trying to trade Drummond for a while. Honestly, most Cs have been on the market and teams have been avoiding trading them because they aren't finding any returns. Players like Whiteside, Valanciunas, Drummond, etc. would be gone in a second if their teams could find teams willing to pay up.

Drummond is having a good year by his standards, but he's been honestly much worse than his reputation would suggest in previous seasons. The Pistons starters have been destroyed all season, and while Griffin is a massive upgrade, if they have to play Stanley Johnson more, that's a massive downgrade. Teams in the modern NBA win by getting the best player only if they can in turn find complementary players to replace the ones they've lost, which is usually easier than finding a star. In the Pistons' case, they're stuck trying to flip the likes of Leuer, Galloway and Ish Smith. But maybe adding Griffin makes teams more willing to give up quality for Reggie Jackson? I really don't see it.

I didn't think the Pelicans made out like bandits in the Cousins trade despite everyone jumping in, and I like this trade even less for the Pistons. Honestly, this just cements them as worse than the Wizards year in and year out, and just as likely to see an injury to one of their key players. Find the players that are going to actually move the needle at some point and get those players. Jerry West has clearly always understood that point and is at it again, breaking down the Clippers while adding trade flexibility come draft time. SVG clearly doesn't understand that point. His GM-ing skills are downright Doc Riversian. The Clippers haven't hurt their chances this season while opening up all sorts of flexibility moving forward. They clearly won this trade in a similar way to how the Hawks won the Dwight Howard trade despite only getting a Plumlee and a 2nd rounder or two for him.

LOL, the Drummond bashing is ridiculous. He's an excellent player and has tremendous trade value. He's arguably the best rebounder in the NBA, dramatically improved his passing out of the double-team - improving his assists/40 from 1.5 to 4.6, and his TS% improved from 52 to 57. Aside from blocks and intimidations, he gets tons of deflections, so even if he isn't the best 1 on 1 defender, he's a major plus on defense. If they had been trying to trade him in past years, they got lucky, because he's become a better player and more valuable asset at 24 years old.

If the Clippers said they want to build for the future, I could appreciate that, but they said the opposite - they said they want to stay competitive - they don't want any dropoff after the trade.

The Hawks won the Dwight Howard trade? Miles Plumlee gets paid $12.5 mil per season through the 2019/20 season and stinks. Even if you don't like Howard - who's playing really well this season - his contract is up a year earlier than Plumlee's.

[Kanyewest]

Stan Van Gundy's last 3 first round draft picks.

2015- Stanley Johnson
2016- Henry Ellenson
2017- Luke Kenard

[queridiculo]

Stan Van Gundy's last 3 first round draft picks.

2015- Stanley Johnson
2016- Henry Ellenson
2017- Luke Kenard

The 2016 draft was absolutely terrible so he gets a pass for that one, but Booker and Donovan Mitchell would look pretty good in Detroit right now.

The Kennard draft in particular... the report is that they were considering between the two, when will teams learn about Duke players?

[Ruzious]

Cleveland's had a couple bad runs in the past with Lebron but always came back. This run... especially with the Love injury - they are in implosion mode, and I don't think Thomas and Lebron can or want to play together. DWade can still play - but probably not major minutes. It's fun to watch them lose.

[I_Like_Dirt]

LOL, the Drummond bashing is ridiculous. He's an excellent player and has tremendous trade value. He's arguably the best rebounder in the NBA, dramatically improved his passing out of the double-team - improving his assists/40 from 1.5 to 4.6, and his TS% improved from 52 to 57. Aside from blocks and intimidations, he gets tons of deflections, so even if he isn't the best 1 on 1 defender, he's a major plus on defense. If they had been trying to trade him in past years, they got lucky, because he's become a better player and more valuable asset at 24 years old.

If the Clippers said they want to build for the future, I could appreciate that, but they said the opposite - they said they want to stay competitive - they don't want any dropoff after the trade.

The Hawks won the Dwight Howard trade? Miles Plumlee gets paid $12.5 mil per season through the 2019/20 season and stinks. Even if you don't like Howard - who's playing really well this season - his contract is up a year earlier than Plumlee's.

(1) I don't see it as Drummond Bashing. He's an excellent player. Cs aren't nearly the commodity they once were, though. And the Pistons have definitely tried to trade him over the years. Last season, last season, for example. Whiteside is a quality player, too, and the Heat have been realizing they're better off with Olynyk in a bunch of matchups - not all, but more than historically would have been the case. Heck, I watched the Raptors play the Sixers a few weeks ago and Embiid was shredding Valanciunas and Ibaka. The Raptors responded by essentially benching both of them and going small most of the game and Embiid, despite his big stat line and early massive + wound up being a net - on the game, and Embiid is better than any of the other guys mentioned here. Cs are still valuable and Drummond is no exception, but teams have been desperately trying to move them for their historical value the past few seasons and the takers have been getting fewer. Like him or not, Cousins is simply better than Drummond at this point, and he didn't turn the borderline playoff Pelicans into anything more than a borderline playoff team.

The idea that Drummond has fantastical trade value just isn't true. If it was, he'd have been moved long ago. As for the Pistons "getting lucky" by keeping him. Since he's been on the team, their eastern conference finishes have been: 11th, 11th, 12th, 8th, 10th, averaging 34 wins per season in that span, and they're currently 9th and on pace for 38 wins but on a massive downswing after their bench went on an unsustainable streak to start the season. That's just good enough to miss the playoff most seasons and not bad enough to get a good draft pick to change your fortunes. That's the worst possible spot in the NBA to be as a franchise. Clearly a lot of people seem to think that Griffin moves them out of that place, but I'm not at all convinced that's true.

(2) Why should the Clippers announce they're going to tank? That's a horrible decision because every other team suddenly starts offering them scraps at that point. And honestly, competing this season doesn't actually mean they aren't going to rebuild. They're clearly going to rebuild. They added picks, and players that are more easily traded with picks to bad teams looking to unload stars, or good teams looking to trade draft picks. You only have to look at teams like the Celtics, Spurs and Raptors to realize that teams don't actually have to bottom out to turn their franchises around. Heck, even the Warriors never really bottomed out. They were a bad team for quite some time but the closest they really came to tanking was when they went for Harrison Barnes and they aren't exactly loaded with a bunch of top 5 picks on their roster. I don't think the Clippers are going to tank, or if they do, they aren't going to do it for very long. They are going to rebuild, though, and if you don't think they announced they were rebuilding in their Chris Paul/Blake Griffin trades, I don't know what to think.

(3) As for the Hawks winning the Dwight trade, I don't know if they won it, but I definitely don't think they lost it. They opened up more ability to toy around with their roster and got rid of a guy who would have been a problem if they tried to rebuild. Dwight looks better than he really is this year because his usage is back up. He's actually got a career low ortg right now and the Bobcats are playing a more old school style of defense which hides him a bit more - something he's clearly been asking for from his teams the past few seasons and they weren't willing to do something to make him look better if it hurt their team, but the Bobcats obviously don't mind.

[nate33]

agree. this should have been a tank season for them given Paul was gone.

One of the things that really rang a bell for me as a bulls fan over the last 8 years is how detrimental it is to e tied down to a selfish 2nd tier star like derrick rose and jimmy butler. while jimmy may be learning how to play team ball and is also a willing defender he still holds the ball extra long.

Shaq said it best a few nights ago. even holding that ball just an extra single second throws the entire offense off. The cutter is no longer open. the ball never gets delivered. The cutters stop cutting.

and the biggest culprit are the off ball players that wont take themselves out of the play by something simple like a down screen. every single damn NBA player wants to be the cutter and receive the ball. so they dont set down screens because you dont get a shot nor an assist. and the cutters dont reward down screeners by setting the down screen next time down the court. watching derrick rose never move off ball almost killed basketball for me. i sold my season tickets.

Thank god Hoiberg has th ebulls playing right this year. until Dunn's performances went to his head and then zach came back and is basically playing iso ball like Jimmy butler did. But zach isn't even good at it.

I see blake griffin as that exact same type of player. besides the pick and roll. he just stands there. does nothing. waits for his turn to go iso. its 2000's basketball brought to you by none other that micheal jordan (except the bulls moved the ball most of the time even if MJ and scottie took all the shots). yuck!

I thank the basketball gods for Steph curry, Klay Thompson and Draymond green nearly every single day. They saved the game of basketball.

*cough* John Wall *cough*

[nate33]

Stan Van Gundy's last 3 first round draft picks.

2015- Stanley Johnson
2016- Henry Ellenson
2017- Luke Kenard

Coaches shouldn't be GM's. There's not enough time to do both, and their interests are often in conflict (win now versus build for a future).

[Ruzious]

LOL, the Drummond bashing is ridiculous. He's an excellent player and has tremendous trade value. He's arguably the best rebounder in the NBA, dramatically improved his passing out of the double-team - improving his assists/40 from 1.5 to 4.6, and his TS% improved from 52 to 57. Aside from blocks and intimidations, he gets tons of deflections, so even if he isn't the best 1 on 1 defender, he's a major plus on defense. If they had been trying to trade him in past years, they got lucky, because he's become a better player and more valuable asset at 24 years old.

If the Clippers said they want to build for the future, I could appreciate that, but they said the opposite - they said they want to stay competitive - they don't want any dropoff after the trade.

The Hawks won the Dwight Howard trade? Miles Plumlee gets paid $12.5 mil per season through the 2019/20 season and stinks. Even if you don't like Howard - who's playing really well this season - his contract is up a year earlier than Plumlee's.

(1) I don't see it as Drummond Bashing. He's an excellent player. Cs aren't nearly the commodity they once were, though. And the Pistons have definitely tried to trade him over the years. Last season, last season, for example. Whiteside is a quality player, too, and the Heat have been realizing they're better off with Olynyk in a bunch of matchups - not all, but more than historically would have been the case. Heck, I watched the Raptors play the Sixers a few weeks ago and Embiid was shredding Valanciunas and Ibaka. The Raptors responded by essentially benching both of them and going small most of the game and Embiid, despite his big stat line and early massive + wound up being a net - on the game, and Embiid is better than any of the other guys mentioned here. Cs are still valuable and Drummond is no exception, but teams have been desperately trying to move them for their historical value the past few seasons and the takers have been getting fewer. Like him or not, Cousins is simply better than Drummond at this point, and he didn't turn the borderline playoff Pelicans into anything more than a borderline playoff team.

The idea that Drummond has fantastical trade value just isn't true. If it was, he'd have been moved long ago. As for the Pistons "getting lucky" by keeping him. Since he's been on the team, their eastern conference finishes have been: 11th, 11th, 12th, 8th, 10th, averaging 34 wins per season in that span, and they're currently 9th and on pace for 38 wins but on a massive downswing after their bench went on an unsustainable streak to start the season. That's just good enough to miss the playoff most seasons and not bad enough to get a good draft pick to change your fortunes. That's the worst possible spot in the NBA to be as a franchise. Clearly a lot of people seem to think that Griffin moves them out of that place, but I'm not at all convinced that's true.

(2) Why should the Clippers announce they're going to tank? That's a horrible decision because every other team suddenly starts offering them scraps at that point. And honestly, competing this season doesn't actually mean they aren't going to rebuild. They're clearly going to rebuild. They added picks, and players that are more easily traded with picks to bad teams looking to unload stars, or good teams looking to trade draft picks. You only have to look at teams like the Celtics, Spurs and Raptors to realize that teams don't actually have to bottom out to turn their franchises around. Heck, even the Warriors never really bottomed out. They were a bad team for quite some time but the closest they really came to tanking was when they went for Harrison Barnes and they aren't exactly loaded with a bunch of top 5 picks on their roster. I don't think the Clippers are going to tank, or if they do, they aren't going to do it for very long. They are going to rebuild, though, and if you don't think they announced they were rebuilding in their Chris Paul/Blake Griffin trades, I don't know what to think.

(3) As for the Hawks winning the Dwight trade, I don't know if they won it, but I definitely don't think they lost it. They opened up more ability to toy around with their roster and got rid of a guy who would have been a problem if they tried to rebuild. Dwight looks better than he really is this year because his usage is back up. He's actually got a career low ortg right now and the Bobcats are playing a more old school style of defense which hides him a bit more - something he's clearly been asking for from his teams the past few seasons and they weren't willing to do something to make him look better if it hurt their team, but the Bobcats obviously don't mind.

I'm talking about Drummond now - not in past years - that was my whole point in talking about how much he's improved. And if I'm a GM, I want players like Drummond, Davis, Embiid, Towns, and Capella, and those players will eventually be on championship teams. Cousins isn't quite at their level, because of defense, turnovers, and fouls. They're not 1 man teams - nobody is - even Lebron. Part of the reason the NBA went to small ball is that there's been so few quality bigs for a lot of years. Now, there are some developing, and there's more on the way in the next draft. Whiteside... was a second round pick for a reason. He's a very talented player, but there are issues with him. And he's not just losing time to Olynyk - who's also a big 7 footer, btw; he's also losing time to Bam - who's like a poor-man's Dwight.

As for the Clips, of course they didn't have to say they plan to tank. But they went out of their way to insist they're competing - which I think is a bad plan. What's up with the essays, btw? I don't have time for reading and responding to long posts.

[Kanyewest]

Stan Van Gundy's last 3 first round draft picks.

2015- Stanley Johnson
2016- Henry Ellenson
2017- Luke Kenard

Coaches shouldn't be GM's. There's not enough time to do both, and their interests are often in conflict (win now versus build for a future).

I think a coach could be a good GM, kind of what Belichick is doing with the Patriots. But yeah, if you are always concerned about the present like guys like Doc and Stan Van Gundy, then it could turn sour.

[Kanyewest]

Stan Van Gundy's last 3 first round draft picks.

2015- Stanley Johnson
2016- Henry Ellenson
2017- Luke Kenard

The 2016 draft was absolutely terrible so he gets a pass for that one, but Booker and Donovan Mitchell would look pretty good in Detroit right now.

The Kennard draft in particular... the report is that they were considering between the two, when will teams learn about Duke players?

I agree Booker has been better, although TBH I don' remember any draft sites having rated Booker as a better draft prospect than Johnson at the time.

[I_Like_Dirt]

And if I'm a GM, I want players like Drummond, Davis, Embiid, Towns, and Capella, and those players will eventually be on championship teams.

I mean, they may eventually be on championship teams, and I wouldn't turn my nose up at any of them were I a GM, but the reality is that you picked a bunch of guys who haven't made the finals, and really, outside of Capella who is very good but absolutely not the driving force of the Rockets, none of those guys has ever done anything more than find a way to back into a low playoff seed sandwiched between lottery seasons. Like it or not, these guys aren't nearly the gamechangers they used to be.

Of the legitimately good teams out there today, most of them don't actually have such a player, or of they do, he doesn't play much. They usually just find a plug to fill the role when needed and prioritize the ability to play team ball rather than elite skills. They'd take the elite skills, too, if they could get them, but they aren't something they will pay a premium for. The Warriors don't have anyone like that. Neither do the Cavs, assuming they'll still be an elite team come playoff time, which I'm starting to question if they will be. The Rockets with Capela are the best example out there, and Capela is playing 26 mpg. The Spurs are running with Aldridge and Pau Gasol doing his Weekend at Bernie's impersonation. Hassan Whiteside is in a time share with Kelly Olynyk on the Heat. The Celtics are almost entirely devoid of bigs outside of Al Horford. Valanciunas is playing 21 mpg for the Raptors. The Wolves, at least, are winning with Thibodeau's usually shenanigans of overplaying his starters, which includes Towns, but Towns isn't why they're winning. The parade of most of the best and name bigs out there are all struggling for the right to lose in the 1st round of the playoffs and many of them are going to miss it. The era of bigs is over, and they may come back, but if they do, it's going be after a rethink.

[LyricalRico]

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Wow, Bulls get a first for Mirotic and Pelicans add a piece plus clear a spot presumably for Greg Monroe. NOP clearly all-in on the playoffs even without Cousins.