Nikola Jokić and best Bigmen passers of all time

UcanUwill · Post #1 » by **UcanUwill** » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:53 am

I am amazed good of the passer this guy Jokic is, Screw Center position, he might be best passer in the league period. Is he, or can he become greatest bigman passer we have ever seen?

Watch on YouTube

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Saint_Killa · Post #2 » by **Saint_Killa** » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:54 am

Sabonis is.. yall have a good day

ChilledAlex · Post #3 » by **ChilledAlex** » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:03 am

Jokic > Sabonis easily

walk with me · Post #4 » by **walk with me** » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:05 am

Ahhh jokic hyperbole is back

Post #5 » by **SOUL** » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:06 am

Jokic's up there, man. A lot of people don't like to give credit to current players until their career is over, but he just has an innate ability to know where people are without looking. That's tough to do as a big man. And every other game I see him doing a crafty little tip pass to a teammate for an open shot.. no other big man or even point guard really does that as often as him.

Between him and Sabonis for me.

Post #6 » by **SOUL** » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:07 am

walk with me wrote:Ahhh jokic hyperbole is back

It's hyperbolic to say he's one of the best passing centers ever?

Kabookalu · Post #7 » by **Kabookalu** » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:09 am

As a whole I think he might be the best passing center of all time. The thing he has other centers don't have is excellent ballhandling and outside scoring skills, so he can bring the ball up and punish off ball defenders who don't see a backdoor cut coming in semi transition. He can pass from inside and out and off the dribble.

Purely going off of vision though I think Sabonis is the best of all time. Amazing that he once averaged 3apg one season when he was as immobile as they came.

baldur · Post #8 » by **baldur** » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:10 am

SOUL wrote:
walk with me wrote:Ahhh jokic hyperbole is back

It's hyperbolic to say he's one of the best centers at passing ever?

the word ever makes it hyberbolic considering he is playing his third season only. everything is ever these days.

Richard Miller · Post #9 » by **Richard Miller** » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:10 am

Enjoy

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Dominator83 · Post #10 » by **Dominator83** » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:12 am

This is the 2nd big man passing thread in as many days

Post #11 » by **Nuntius** » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:17 am

Arvydas Sabonis is the best passing big of all time but I'd put Jokić at #2. He's right up there, too.

Post #12 » by **SOUL** » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:18 am

baldur wrote:
SOUL wrote:
walk with me wrote:Ahhh jokic hyperbole is back

It's hyperbolic to say he's one of the best centers at passing ever?

the word ever makes it hyberbolic considering he is playing his third season only. everything is ever these days.

I think normally it would be, and I dislike everything having to be compared to the best nowadays, but this is a very specific talent reduced to a specific position (center), and the highlight package he has in 3 years already stands up to the best of them. I don't think it denotes anything crazy, or hoists him upon some pedestal where he can't be touched because of it, it's just acknowledging a player at a position with a truly elite skill that most players at that position don't have in their bag.

Winsome Gerbil · Post #13 » by **Winsome Gerbil** » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:23 am

You could add Cousins, Brad Miller, & Alvan Adams to that list, but I know space is limited, and they wouldn't be #1.

Thing is...it's too early. Not too early to say he's another in the long line of great passing centers, but too early to say where exactly he belongs. There's role questions too. Wilt was basically playing point center by the late 60s, but was he as slick? That I can't say. Sabas/Webber/Vlade were ridiculously slick and threw some of the niftiest passes, just automatic dimes better than most PGs could throw, but they did it from more stationary positions and at lower volume.

Watch on YouTube

but the comparison, obvious due to origins, that remains attractive is to Vlade:

Watch on YouTube

ChilledAlex · Post #14 » by **ChilledAlex** » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:29 am

Nuntius wrote:Arvydas Sabonis is the best passing big of all time but I'd put Jokić at #2. He's right up there, too.

Sabonis had 964 total career assists in 7 seasons

Jokic has 782 in 2 1/2 seasons.

Jokic > Sabonis and its not even close

Post #15 » by **THE J0KER** » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:38 am

Young Nikola Jokic is already best center passer of all time!

Wilt has some crazy numbers in two seasons when played in Philadelphia where opponents use "surround Wilt" strategy, so it comes more like the effect of forced plan-B than anything else. Same you can say about Cousins, Griffin, C.Webber, and other elite big-men executors which has passing skills to permanently use the advantage of opponents double-team them.

Jokic case is totally different because he is the real playmaker of his team 2nd season in the row (out of three he played so far in the league). You can compare him only with what Draymond Green doing in GSW and Horford in Boston past two seasons, but in GSW Curry is also important playmaker (and 6'7 Draymond is more forward than center) and in Boston, you have Irving and Smart. Joakim Noah in his best two years in Chicago also showed nice passing and playmaking skills very similar to Horford case.

So Jokic point-center case as teams basic playmaker is already unique. I read somewhere that young Bill Walton, before all these tragic injuries, is that kind of talent, but I never watched any his full game from that period. Sabonis is legendary for his passing skills, but that is just highlights of his game, never basic option. His career-high is 3.0 apg for a team which has that season 4 players with over 3 apg, so it is incomparable to Jokic case.

INTERESTING FACT: if we ignore Wilt case, never any center has more than 6 triple-doubles during a single season. Last season Nikola Jokic has 6xTD in just two months, February and March only!

Rastas · Post #16 » by **Rastas** » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:41 am

Well if 6'10 1/2 to 6'11'' Ben Simmons qualifies - its him easily.

Winsome Gerbil · Post #17 » by **Winsome Gerbil** » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:43 am

ChilledAlex wrote:
Nuntius wrote:Arvydas Sabonis is the best passing big of all time but I'd put Jokić at #2. He's right up there, too.

Sabonis had 964 total career assists in 7 seasons

Jokic has 782 in 2 1/2 seasons.

Jokic > Sabonis and its not even close

That is about role as much as anything (and notably minutes/health too -- in his 7 years Sabas barely had twice as many minutes as Jokic has in 2 1/2).

Doesn't mean Jokic might not be the better passer, but it does mean that using raw assist stats for old broken down Sabas as a lower usage passing post in the NBA isn't really the way to go about it. When Sabas was Jokic's age he was a Euro superstar who's assist numbers would surely have been much higher. But the mystery of just how much higher etc. is always going to be part of the Arvydas mystique.

ChilledAlex · Post #18 » by **ChilledAlex** » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:48 am

Winsome Gerbil wrote:
ChilledAlex wrote:
Nuntius wrote:Arvydas Sabonis is the best passing big of all time but I'd put Jokić at #2. He's right up there, too.

Sabonis had 964 total career assists in 7 seasons

Jokic has 782 in 2 1/2 seasons.

Jokic > Sabonis and its not even close

That is about role as much as anything (and notably minutes/health too -- in his 7 years Sabas barely had twice as many minutes as Jokic has in 2 1/2).

Doesn't mean Jokic might not be the better passer, but it does mean that using raw assist stats for old broken down Sabas as a lower usage passing post in the NBA isn't really the way to go about it. When Sabas was Jokic's age he was a Euro superstar who's assist numbers would surely have been much higher. But the mystery of just how much higher etc. is always going to be part of the Arvydas mystique.

Can agree with you, Sabonis played in NBA after injury and past his prime, but still Jokic > Sabonis.

Sabonis was way more athletic even past his prime and after injuries tho. But Jokic has a body of a chubby child, so he can surprise everyone in near future.
We'll see, new big men in league are exciting, frankly KAT hasn't been shining as much thanks to having stacked team.

Kabookalu · Post #19 » by **Kabookalu** » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:51 am

ChilledAlex wrote:Sabonis was way more athletic even past his prime and after injuries tho.

You're talking about Sabas in the NBA, right? He's one of the least athletic players I've ever seen in my life during his team in the league. Even Roy Hibbert was faster.

ChilledAlex · Post #20 » by **ChilledAlex** » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:53 am

Kabookalu wrote:
ChilledAlex wrote:Sabonis was way more athletic even past his prime and after injuries tho.

You're talking about Sabas in the NBA, right? He's one of the least athletic players I've ever seen in my life during his team in the league. Even Roy Hibbert was faster.

Well Jokic is even less athletic from what I've seen :lol:

Who is GOAT passing bigman?