GT #50: OKC Thunder @ Wizards 7:00 PM (NBCSWA/1500 AM)

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

CMC just doesn’t rebound at all. He doesn’t even make contact when setting a screen. The guy has no feel for the game at all.

I agree, there is no reason to not give him a shot, but let’s not act like we haven’t seen him in summer league disgracing the sport of basketball.

You don't put him in there to set screens. Can't do it won't do it. Put him in there to run like deer and jump. He dunks the ball and he can definitely hit threes.

I prefer to think of CMC as a small forward. A taller Gerald Green.

Sent from my [device_name] using [url]RealGM mobile app[/url]

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I don't see CMC worth trying. But why not Jason Smith? He's played poorly this year, but has done well in the past especially when we had our good run last year. His jump shot mechanics seem to be a little off, but that may be due to rushing his shots because he gets so few chances to perform.

C is our biggest problem now. Gortat can't do anything but set picks at this point. No rim protection, poor rebounding, and seems to be intimidated on offense by most decent centers. Mahinmi is ridiculously bad. Bad rebounder and offensive player. Not a rim protector. Decent mobility, but a foul machine.

Set Jason free. Can he really by worse than Gortat/Mahinmi? We've got to try something.

Gortat is definitely fading. That said he scored six or eight points in the third quarter and was a huge reason why the Wizards won yesterday. He finished the game + 23. He did a lot of grabbing and holding and he actually frustrated Steven Adams in the second half.

I'm all for Jason Smith over Ian Mahinmi.

Sent from my [device_name] using [url]RealGM mobile app[/url]

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Just watched game, getting back on D and valuing each ball possession certainly makes a difference! Sato playing better than I thought was possible, league will adjust to him, will see if he can counter over the next 2 months.

Ian continues to be terrible, but nice job hitting Tony Brothers in the head with the basketball. Ian and Tony both provide high entertainment through their ineptness.

The thing is, what Sato is doing is completely sustainable. Sato didn't kill it by being an offensive juggernaut, his performance was a result of sheer effort. If he can bring that same vigor defensively for the rest of the season then there's nothing for the league to adjust to.

Some of the smarter teams are attacking Sato's handle and making him pick up the ball at half court. I think more teams will copy that, which tends to reduce the amount of time under the 24 second clock to run our sets.

For a while, teams also completely abandoned Sato in help defense to protect the paint, but fortunately, Sato has improved his 3-point shot enough so that that's no longer a viable option.

They are attacking Sato's handle but pressing in the NBA doesn't work in general.

Sato can pass to Beal or Porter. There will be someone open. Tomas Satoransky leads the league in assists to turnover. His strength is decision making and the ability to pass out of double-teams. He can stand at the top of the circle and deliver on target alley-oop passes. I think he's going to continue to be effective.

Also, the beautiful thing is Frazier is the antidote to pressure defenses. Tim advances the ball much quicker.

Twenty-eight assists to four turnovers the past two games. I feel those two can sustain their high-level to play. The Wizards do not need them to score. They both defend. They get others involved in the offense.

Sent from my [device_name] using [url]RealGM mobile app[/url]

[Ruzious]

I don't see CMC worth trying. But why not Jason Smith? He's played poorly this year, but has done well in the past especially when we had our good run last year. His jump shot mechanics seem to be a little off, but that may be due to rushing his shots because he gets so few chances to perform.

C is our biggest problem now. Gortat can't do anything but set picks at this point. No rim protection, poor rebounding, and seems to be intimidated on offense by most decent centers. Mahinmi is ridiculously bad. Bad rebounder and offensive player. Not a rim protector. Decent mobility, but a foul machine.

Set Jason free. Can he really by worse than Gortat/Mahinmi? We've got to try something.

Gortat is definitely fading. That said he scored six or eight points in the third quarter and was a huge reason why the Wizards won yesterday. He finished the game + 23. He did a lot of grabbing and holding and he actually frustrated Steven Adams in the second half.

I'm all for Jason Smith over Ian Mahinmi.

Sent from my [device_name] using [url]RealGM mobile app[/url]

As bad as Ian's looked this season, Jason's looked so bad defensively when he's played - never seems to notice he's supposed to switch off his man until a couple seconds too late. Just can't use him unless he's great offensively, and he's stunk offensively. Last time I checked, his PER was under 6... small sample size but not sure I've seen a big with that bad a PER.

[NatP4]

CMC just doesn’t rebound at all. He doesn’t even make contact when setting a screen. The guy has no feel for the game at all.

I agree, there is no reason to not give him a shot, but let’s not act like we haven’t seen him in summer league disgracing the sport of basketball.

You don't put him in there to set screens. Can't do it won't do it. Put him in there to run like deer and jump. He dunks the ball and he can definitely hit threes.

I prefer to think of CMC as a small forward. A taller Gerald Green.

Sent from my [device_name] using [url]RealGM mobile app[/url]

What do you mean though? why would we need him to play over Sato/Oubre/Porter on the wing? The only benefits he could bring would be to possible outrebound Morris or to shoot the 3 better than him. McCullough only averaged 7-8 rebounds in his time in the G-League.

I'm all for giving him some playing time because why not? but he doesn't really have any NBA skills other than catching lobs.

the funny thing is that our other bench warmer prospect, Devin Robinson, is averaging 5 rebounds per game in 26 minutes. that is awful. very redundant with CMC. He is shooting 40% from 3 though.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

CMC just doesn’t rebound at all. He doesn’t even make contact when setting a screen. The guy has no feel for the game at all.

I agree, there is no reason to not give him a shot, but let’s not act like we haven’t seen him in summer league disgracing the sport of basketball.

You don't put him in there to set screens. Can't do it won't do it. Put him in there to run like deer and jump. He dunks the ball and he can definitely hit threes.

I prefer to think of CMC as a small forward. A taller Gerald Green.

Sent from my [device_name] using [url]RealGM mobile app[/url]

What do you mean though? why would we need him to play over Sato/Oubre/Porter on the wing? The only benefits he could bring would be to possible outrebound Morris or to shoot the 3 better than him. McCullough only averaged 7-8 rebounds in his time in the G-League.

I'm all for giving him some playing time because why not? but he doesn't really have any NBA skills other than catching lobs.

the funny thing is that our other bench warmer prospect, Devin Robinson, is averaging 5 rebounds per game in 26 minutes. that is awful. very redundant with CMC. He is shooting 40% from 3 though.

I would rather see McCullough play 5 to 10 minutes of game for Mahinmi.

I think Morris or Scott needs to be on the court with him because they provide a physical presence.

I don't want McCullough's minutes to come at the expense of Oubre or Porter. If Chris ever got his shot going he would be just as effective as Scott.

My only point of bringing up McCullough in the first place is he should be playing some.






Sent from my [device_name] using [url]RealGM mobile app[/url]

[80sballboy]

For all of his faults and there are many including rebounding and consistent effort, Markieff Morris is shooting 39.1% from three-point range. That's about 1.5 percent better than Beal. He's averaging 33.8% during his career. If McCullough was about 20-25 pounds bigger, he'd get more time at the 4/5. I mean he's listed at 6-9 and 201 pounds. Even if he's 210, that's still extremely thin.

[Ruzious]

McCullough wasn't particularly good in college or the D/G Leagues - I guess stranger things have happened, but I just don't see him as an NBA caliber player or prospect.

[payitforward]

If we can only keep one, I'd rather keep Sato between him and Oubre. He just makes the right plays, smart plays and doesn't quit.

I wonder what you can get for Oubre, because he still has great potential. He's still just 22. But Beal and Porter are not going anywhere and I don't think Otto is built to play a lot of 4 man. I wouldn't hesitate to see what the best deal is out there but I would need either a lottery pick or a good big man for him with some years left (no DeAndre).

You guys are nuts, completely nuts. Sato had a good game, & he's playing very well this year. No surprise. He was a success in Europe, & he's a capable, smart player who's at his peak at 26.

Oubre is 22 with a very high ceiling, & he is getting better quickly. Nobody in his right mind would consider Satoransky an asset of the value of Oubre, & nobody in his right mind would trade him for "a lottery pick."

What kind of an idea is that? Basically you take on the same salary, but for a player that's much more of a risk. Makes no sense at all.

Yeah, we have a salary crisis coming, but trading Oubre doesn't do anything to solve it.

Now... of course any player on any team including ours should be available in a trade, depending on what you get back in the deal. Including Oubre. But not for "a lottery pick."

[nuposse04]

If we can only keep one, I'd rather keep Sato between him and Oubre. He just makes the right plays, smart plays and doesn't quit.

I wonder what you can get for Oubre, because he still has great potential. He's still just 22. But Beal and Porter are not going anywhere and I don't think Otto is built to play a lot of 4 man. I wouldn't hesitate to see what the best deal is out there but I would need either a lottery pick or a good big man for him with some years left (no DeAndre).

You guys are nuts, completely nuts. Sato had a good game, & he's playing very well this year. No surprise. He was a success in Europe, & he's a capable, smart player who's at his peak at 26.

Oubre is 22 with a very high ceiling, & he is getting better quickly. Nobody in his right mind would consider Satoransky an asset of the value of Oubre, & nobody in his right mind would trade him for "a lottery pick."

What kind of an idea is that? Basically you take on the same salary, but for a player that's much more of a risk. Makes no sense at all.

Yeah, we have a salary crisis coming, but trading Oubre doesn't do anything to solve it.

Now... of course any player on any team including ours should be available in a trade, depending on what you get back in the deal. Including Oubre. But not for "a lottery pick."

any trade involving oubre should return a FC starter locked into a salary. I don't think Oubre is worth Max money, which I'm sure some other team will throw at him, unless the GMs around the league finally have some common sense now. Oubre has improved across the board and probably still will (although he kind of has tunnel vision and his TOs are up, but that come with more usage I guess), but unless he is willing to sign for like draymond green money, I'm not sure how we are going to retain him...unless Ted isn't as cheap as I think he is.

Also interesting that Oubre's on/off numbers are actually worse this year while everything else across the board has increased.

Now please tell me about his offensive rebounds and steals oh yee follower of the god of wins produced

[payitforward]

For all of his faults and there are many including rebounding and consistent effort, Markieff Morris is shooting 39.1% from three-point range. That's about 1.5 percent better than Beal. He's averaging 33.8% during his career. If McCullough was about 20-25 pounds bigger, he'd get more time at the 4/5. I mean he's listed at 6-9 and 201 pounds. Even if he's 210, that's still extremely thin.

Shout out to DCzards on Kieff's improved 3-pt. % -- last off-season he said it might happen, & I expressed my doubts. He was right, & I was wrong.

His 2-pt. % is up too. His FT% is down a little, but it's still almost 81%. As a result Kieff has a TS% of 55.9% -- almost 2% better than last year and 1% above average for an NBA 4.

But, overall, his play this year is only just slightly different from what it was last year: besides his more efficient scoring, he's a little better defensive rebounder too. But, compared to last year, he's also turning it over a bit more, stealing a bit less, fouling a little more, assisting a little less. In all, not much different -- & certainly not anywhere near "good."

[payitforward]

I wonder what you can get for Oubre, because he still has great potential. He's still just 22. But Beal and Porter are not going anywhere and I don't think Otto is built to play a lot of 4 man. I wouldn't hesitate to see what the best deal is out there but I would need either a lottery pick or a good big man for him with some years left (no DeAndre).

You guys are nuts, completely nuts. Sato had a good game, & he's playing very well this year. No surprise. He was a success in Europe, & he's a capable, smart player who's at his peak at 26.

Oubre is 22 with a very high ceiling, & he is getting better quickly. Nobody in his right mind would consider Satoransky an asset of the value of Oubre, & nobody in his right mind would trade him for "a lottery pick."

What kind of an idea is that? Basically you take on the same salary, but for a player that's much more of a risk. Makes no sense at all.

Yeah, we have a salary crisis coming, but trading Oubre doesn't do anything to solve it.

Now... of course any player on any team including ours should be available in a trade, depending on what you get back in the deal. Including Oubre. But not for "a lottery pick."

any trade involving oubre should return a FC starter locked into a salary. I don't think Oubre is worth Max money, which I'm sure some other team will throw at him, unless the GMs around the league finally have some common sense now. Oubre has improved across the board and probably still will (although he kind of has tunnel vision and his TOs are up, but that come with more usage I guess), but unless he is willing to sign for like draymond green money, I'm not sure how we are going to retain him...unless Ted isn't as cheap as I think he is.

Also interesting that Oubre's on/off numbers are actually worse this year while everything else across the board has increased.

Now please tell me about his offensive rebounds and steals oh yee follower of the god of wins produced

That was a perfectly sensible post until the last line, which was twerpy. I accept your apology (now give it).

His turnovers are up, but it's not by much. In all, except for the scoring numbers, everything else is pretty consistent w/ last year. But, the scoring numbers are way way better overall. His 2 pt. % is actually down, probably reflecting the fact that a larger % of them than last year are something other than dunks/put-backs. But, his 3 pt. % is way way up, obviously. & so is his FT% (& how often he gets to the line).

Who knows where he'll wind up as a player, but he's awfully good for 22. &, to me at least, his play is all the more impressive given how raw he was when he arrived -- having played only 750 minutes of college ball.

I understand your point about his salary -- I don't begin to think he's worth max money. TBH, I'm starting to wonder how many players in the league really are! But, for that reason, I think it's a problem that we have 3 of them, so maybe we need to trade one of Wall/Beal/Porter.

[Illmatic12]

I wonder what you can get for Oubre, because he still has great potential. He's still just 22. But Beal and Porter are not going anywhere and I don't think Otto is built to play a lot of 4 man. I wouldn't hesitate to see what the best deal is out there but I would need either a lottery pick or a good big man for him with some years left (no DeAndre).

You guys are nuts, completely nuts. Sato had a good game, & he's playing very well this year. No surprise. He was a success in Europe, & he's a capable, smart player who's at his peak at 26.

Oubre is 22 with a very high ceiling, & he is getting better quickly. Nobody in his right mind would consider Satoransky an asset of the value of Oubre, & nobody in his right mind would trade him for "a lottery pick."

What kind of an idea is that? Basically you take on the same salary, but for a player that's much more of a risk. Makes no sense at all.

Yeah, we have a salary crisis coming, but trading Oubre doesn't do anything to solve it.

Now... of course any player on any team including ours should be available in a trade, depending on what you get back in the deal. Including Oubre. But not for "a lottery pick."

any trade involving oubre should return a FC starter locked into a salary. I don't think Oubre is worth Max money, which I'm sure some other team will throw at him, unless the GMs around the league finally have some common sense now. Oubre has improved across the board and probably still will (although he kind of has tunnel vision and his TOs are up, but that come with more usage I guess), but unless he is willing to sign for like draymond green money, I'm not sure how we are going to retain him...unless Ted isn't as cheap as I think he is.

Also interesting that Oubre's on/off numbers are actually worse this year while everything else across the board has increased.

Now please tell me about his offensive rebounds and steals oh yee follower of the god of wins produced

It’s not that GMs finally have common sense, it’s that they’ve finally run out of money to spend. The salary cap situation that allowed players like Otto Porter and Harrison Barnes to get rookie max deals doesn’t exist anymore.

Now that all the money from the cap jump has dried up almost every team is operating at or above the cap. I really don’t see Oubre being offered a max deal in RFA because the capspace simply won’t be out there.

[nuposse04]

You guys are nuts, completely nuts. Sato had a good game, & he's playing very well this year. No surprise. He was a success in Europe, & he's a capable, smart player who's at his peak at 26.

Oubre is 22 with a very high ceiling, & he is getting better quickly. Nobody in his right mind would consider Satoransky an asset of the value of Oubre, & nobody in his right mind would trade him for "a lottery pick."

What kind of an idea is that? Basically you take on the same salary, but for a player that's much more of a risk. Makes no sense at all.

Yeah, we have a salary crisis coming, but trading Oubre doesn't do anything to solve it.

Now... of course any player on any team including ours should be available in a trade, depending on what you get back in the deal. Including Oubre. But not for "a lottery pick."

any trade involving oubre should return a FC starter locked into a salary. I don't think Oubre is worth Max money, which I'm sure some other team will throw at him, unless the GMs around the league finally have some common sense now. Oubre has improved across the board and probably still will (although he kind of has tunnel vision and his TOs are up, but that come with more usage I guess), but unless he is willing to sign for like draymond green money, I'm not sure how we are going to retain him...unless Ted isn't as cheap as I think he is.

Also interesting that Oubre's on/off numbers are actually worse this year while everything else across the board has increased.

Now please tell me about his offensive rebounds and steals oh yee follower of the god of wins produced

That was a perfectly sensible post until the last line, which was twerpy. I accept your apology (now give it).

His turnovers are up, but it's not by much. In all, except for the scoring numbers, everything else is pretty consistent w/ last year. But, the scoring numbers are way way better overall. His 2 pt. % is actually down, probably reflecting the fact that a larger % of them than last year are something other than dunks/put-backs. But, his 3 pt. % is way way up, obviously. & so is his FT% (& how often he gets to the line).

Who knows where he'll wind up as a player, but he's awfully good for 22. &, to me at least, his play is all the more impressive given how raw he was when he arrived -- having played only 750 minutes of college ball.

I understand your point about his salary -- I don't begin to think he's worth max money. TBH, I'm starting to wonder how many players in the league really are! But, for that reason, I think it's a problem that we have 3 of them, so maybe we need to trade one of Wall/Beal/Porter.

He is shooting worse on his mid range jumpers this year, but I THINK he isn't taking too many of em. Overall his trajectory is fine, I just don't see all-star potential YET. He plays well and efficiently for himself but he needs to learn how to create for others next, or at least see the court better for passing. I'd also prefer he didn't go for as many steals as he does, he is an excellent man defender and can pretty much stay in front of most wing shooters, he doesn't need to gamble too much. He has good worth ethic so that is... hopeful.

Assuming he does command max, i'm not sure he is better then a healthy wall, or beal (i'm sure this can be another topic of debate) and I still don't think he is as good as Porter. If he could be a piece that could land us K. Leonard (wishful thinking) or uh...Davis (even more wishful) then I'd absolutely part ways with him. I guess my bigger point is, as both Sato and Oubre improve their respective game and the league takes notice, we probably won't be able to keep both, and given they are both like the only good draft picks Grunfeld has made outside of the top 3... is it really reasonable to expect him to reproduce that?

Also yes, I was snarky, I apologize. I do enjoy yours posts mostly PIF

[payitforward]

He is shooting worse on his mid range jumpers this year, but I THINK he isn't taking too many of em. Overall his trajectory is fine, I just don't see all-star potential YET. He plays well and efficiently for himself but he needs to learn how to create for others next, or at least see the court better for passing. I'd also prefer he didn't go for as many steals as he does, he is an excellent man defender and can pretty much stay in front of most wing shooters, he doesn't need to gamble too much. He has good worth ethic so that is... hopeful.

Assuming he does command max, i'm not sure he is better then a healthy wall, or beal (i'm sure this can be another topic of debate) and I still don't think he is as good as Porter. If he could be a piece that could land us K. Leonard (wishful thinking) or uh...Davis (even more wishful) then I'd absolutely part ways with him. I guess my bigger point is, as both Sato and Oubre improve their respective game and the league takes notice, we probably won't be able to keep both, and given they are both like the only good draft picks Grunfeld has made outside of the top 3... is it really reasonable to expect him to reproduce that?

Also yes, I was snarky, I apologize. I do enjoy yours posts mostly PIF

No worries about that....

For sure we have an absolutely horrendous salary situation to navigate, but if we're paying $92m to 3 guys season after next, it's not just a problem about keeping both Sato & Oubre, it's a problem about how we get to a roster of 14. If Mahinmi isn't gone it seems impossible. But, if we don't have both our '18 & '19 R1 picks it also seems impossible.

The only way out of that dark corner is to trade 1 of our 3 current max players. At least it's the only way I can see. & if you're trading one of them, the most sensible is Wall -- if you can manage it.

Why? B/c generationally, he's the odd man out, the oldest of them. The other guys give you a longer runway. Doesn't mean it'll happen that way, but there's a logic to it.

[dckingsfan]

What I noticed re-watching (if that is a word) the last two games with Wall out is that the ball moves better and we are less predictable. I love Sato but it isn't about Sato - it is that Beal, Porter, Morris and Gortat touch the ball more often early in the shot clock. And go figure - each of them seems to be willing to share the basketball as well.

And the D is better with a sore-knee Wall out of the lineup.

As for Sato - he needs to move more once he gives up the ball - wing type motion. Beal seems more than willing to give up the ball and willing to take on the primary scorer roll. And Porter seems "kind of" healthy. He still isn't getting off his feet as well.

Without Wall - both Morris and Gortat are passing more often (or maybe that is outcome bias).

So, my answer to PIF's question above on which player to trade - it would be Wall at this point (taking the useless (IMO) Mahimni with him. Keep Oubre/Sato - keep our picks.

[DCZards]

What I noticed re-watching (if that is a word) the last two games with Wall out is that the ball moves better and we are less predictable. I love Sato but it isn't about Sato - it is that Beal, Porter, Morris and Gortat touch the ball more often early in the shot clock. And go figure - each of them seems to be willing to share the basketball as well.

And the D is better with a sore-knee Wall out of the lineup.

As for Sato - he needs to move more once he gives up the ball - wing type motion. Beal seems more than willing to give up the ball and willing to take on the primary scorer roll. And Porter seems "kind of" healthy. He still isn't getting off his feet as well.

Without Wall - both Morris and Gortat are passing more often (or maybe that is outcome bias).

So, my answer to PIF's question above on which player to trade - it would be Wall at this point (taking the useless (IMO) Mahimni with him. Keep Oubre/Sato - keep our picks.

I don't think it's about trading Wall. I think it's about getting Wall to buy into the style of play that we're seeing when he's out. More ball movement, more player movement, fewer turnovers and better D. Convincing Wall to play that way is on the coach and FO, imo. If Wall refuses to change his style of play then, yes, I'd have no problem trading him because he'd essentially be saying "me-first" rather than "team-first."

Ideally, we'd have a solid perimeter core of Porter, Oubre, Sato and Beal....spearheaded by one of the most dynamic and talented PGs in the game when he's healthy--John Wall. I believe that scenario is still possible.

[dckingsfan]

What I noticed re-watching (if that is a word) the last two games with Wall out is that the ball moves better and we are less predictable. I love Sato but it isn't about Sato - it is that Beal, Porter, Morris and Gortat touch the ball more often early in the shot clock. And go figure - each of them seems to be willing to share the basketball as well.

And the D is better with a sore-knee Wall out of the lineup.

As for Sato - he needs to move more once he gives up the ball - wing type motion. Beal seems more than willing to give up the ball and willing to take on the primary scorer roll. And Porter seems "kind of" healthy. He still isn't getting off his feet as well.

Without Wall - both Morris and Gortat are passing more often (or maybe that is outcome bias).

So, my answer to PIF's question above on which player to trade - it would be Wall at this point (taking the useless (IMO) Mahimni with him. Keep Oubre/Sato - keep our picks.

I don't think it's about trading Wall. I think it's about getting Wall to buy into the style of play that we're seeing when he's out. More ball movement, more player movement, fewer turnovers and better D. Convincing Wall to play that way is on the coach and FO, imo. If Wall refuses to change his style of play then, yes, I'd have no problem trading him because he'd essentially be saying "me-first" rather than "team-first."

Ideally, we'd have a solid perimeter core of Porter, Oubre, Sato and Beal....spearheaded by one of the most dynamic and talented PGs in the game when he's healthy--John Wall. I believe that scenario is still possible.

In context, I was also reacting to PIFs quote that we probably can't afford Wall, Porter & Beal - one of them needs to go. And, since I view our FO as incompetent, I don't see them being able to change Wall's behavior.

But yes, if we could change Wall's behavior, jettison Mahimni without losing our firsts... and stay under the cap with Wall, Porter, Oubre, Sato and Beal - count me in.

It just feels like that saying, "if I had ham, I could have a ham & cheese sandwich, if I had cheese".

[FAH1223]

In context, I was also reacting to PIFs quote that we probably can't afford Wall, Porter & Beal - one of them needs to go. And, since I view our FO as incompetent, I don't see them being able to change Wall's behavior.

But yes, if we could change Wall's behavior, jettison Mahimni without losing our firsts... and stay under the cap with Wall, Porter, Oubre, Sato and Beal - count me in.

It just feels like that saying, "if I had ham, I could have a ham & cheese sandwich, if I had cheese".

If Mahinmi can be off the team by July 2019.

We have $92M on the books with John ($37M), Brad ($27M), Otto ($27.2M).

The luxury tax will be probably $125M. So, we could re-sign Oubre and Sato without hitting the tax, I'm assuming.

But we'd have to find a C.

If we had just kept our 2017 pick, we'd have Allen on his rookie contract.