Free Buddy Hield!

[SacKingZZZ]

Although he’s a great shooter when he’s on, Buddy is far too hot and cold for my liking. And when he’s off what is he giving you, maybe a few rebounds? He’s not much of a playmaker, he’s not much of a defender, he’s doesn’t get to the line. I mean he had 0 yesterday in 20 minutes against the Spurs. Tell me right now what’s the difference between Buddy and an inconsistent average role player/gunner like Marcus Thornton?

Not all things are relative. No good or even great shooter isn't hot and cold. If you let freaking Kobe Bryant only shoot on the nights he's off the charts you have a non HOF Kobe Bryant. Players like Buddy are ones who can rip off 15 points in 5-7 plays even if they start the game 0-8. The Kings don't realize this yet, but them winning games is going to come down to whether Buddy can go on those runs since their defensive system isn't on defending the 3 point line is going to render them at best mediocre defensively at their best.

[SacKingZZZ]

This is a very easy answer :

Were as Buddy can shot the ball no doubt . He does not play defense and cannot handle the ball well at all . When he handles the ball to much he turns the ball over especially when pressured . Between that and no D you do not get more minutes .
This is about as an easy answer as there is . If he starts playing D & he stops turning the ball over and learns how to handle the rock and value the ball he would play far more !

Buddy plays hard on defense and the Kings defense is bad with or without him. The fact is, when Buddy is allowed to be Buddy the Kings have enough scoring potential to win games. When he doesn't score or is allowed to shoot in the low single digits the odds go down dramatically.

Just another nigh for Buddy. Shoots 15 shots and scores 20+ one night, then gets 5 shots the next. Buddy getting on a run makes the Kings dangerous.

I disagree ! He plays hard on defense sometimes but more often than not he does not . More over even if you play hard defense does not make you a good defender .
Buddy will not see the kind of minutes you guys want until he plays all around basketball . That means being consistent for the good both plays .

As I said, the Kings defense goes far beyond any single defender. And I'd put Buddy's on ball D up against just about anyone on the team sans Bogdan. As a matter of fact Buddy stays in front of PG's better than him from I've seen. Bogdan does extremely well against bigger players.

[SacKingZZZ]

Although he’s a great shooter when he’s on, Buddy is far too hot and cold for my liking. And when he’s off what is he giving you, maybe a few rebounds? He’s not much of a playmaker, he’s not much of a defender, he’s doesn’t get to the line. I mean he had 0 yesterday in 20 minutes against the Spurs. Tell me right now what’s the difference between Buddy and an inconsistent average role player/gunner like Marcus Thornton?

I would suggest that his bottom floor is a Marcus Thornton “type.” The biggest difference? Honestly, in my view, it’s that he’s in his second year so we don’t know what he’ll make out to be. That’s the mystery and that’s why you don’t give up on a guy who actually shows signs of being a legitimate perimeter threat. Inconsistent? Sure! I haven’t seen any other king consistently find their stride. I’d be harsher if he was in year three or four (ahem Ben Mac)

The major difference is also a physical one. Marcus was a short, stocky, stump. Hield is longer, more slick in his movements, and straight jacked. His physical makeup is beyond Marcus and it makes a different for players who aren't great athletes.

[dozencousins]

Buddy plays hard on defense and the Kings defense is bad with or without him. The fact is, when Buddy is allowed to be Buddy the Kings have enough scoring potential to win games. When he doesn't score or is allowed to shoot in the low single digits the odds go down dramatically.

Just another nigh for Buddy. Shoots 15 shots and scores 20+ one night, then gets 5 shots the next. Buddy getting on a run makes the Kings dangerous.

I disagree ! He plays hard on defense sometimes but more often than not he does not . More over even if you play hard defense does not make you a good defender .
Buddy will not see the kind of minutes you guys want until he plays all around basketball . That means being consistent for the good both plays .

As I said, the Kings defense goes far beyond any single defender. And I'd put Buddy's on ball D up against just about anyone on the team sans Bogdan. As a matter of fact Buddy stays in front of PG's better than him from I've seen. Bogdan does extremely well against bigger players.

Agreed with the fact that it takes others to defend as well . What I am saying is that Buddy is one of our worst defenders whom play the guard position .

Fox plays defense a lot , we all know temple when playing guard defends , even hill defends , Bogdon defends . Even when healthy Mason defends . All of that leaves Buddy with less minutes .

[SacKingZZZ]

I disagree ! He plays hard on defense sometimes but more often than not he does not . More over even if you play hard defense does not make you a good defender .
Buddy will not see the kind of minutes you guys want until he plays all around basketball . That means being consistent for the good both plays .

As I said, the Kings defense goes far beyond any single defender. And I'd put Buddy's on ball D up against just about anyone on the team sans Bogdan. As a matter of fact Buddy stays in front of PG's better than him from I've seen. Bogdan does extremely well against bigger players.

Agreed with the fact that it takes others to defend as well . What I am saying is that Buddy is one of our worst defenders whom play the guard position .

Fox plays defense a lot , we all know temple when playing guard defends , even hill defends , Bogdon defends . Even when healthy Mason defends . All of that leaves Buddy with less minutes .

Yeah, but you are comparing Fox who has potential to be a great defender and Hill who is already top shelf. Buddy is at the very worst a baseline defender. He'll end up not hurting you much because of his own individual abilities, his impact will fluctuate both directions at times but nothing too major. Not saying that Buddy is at his level but should the Rockets sit James Harden because he couldn't guard a house fly with a flamethrower?

If Buddy is not getting more minutes because of his defense then this team is in trouble from management standpoint. The system is garbage from the top down and Buddy's offensive talents not being used to their full effectiveness is also probably a reason why the Kings are not only the worst defensive team in the league, but the worst offensively as well. No way should they be the worst offensive team.

I'm not a huge fan of some advanced stats, but right now the stats show Buddy is having more impact than Bogdan, Mason, Fox, and is the 4th best on the entire team according to defensive win share.

[kingjawn100]

Buddy is a great shooter but a below-average NBA athlete. That hurts him on both offense and defense. On offense we think he should take more shots but he just doesn't have the quickness to get separation from defenders. That's why he (and to some extent BogI) take a ton of contested shots and have to work really hard to get shots off (you also see Buddy getting a ton of shots blocked on breakaways)

On defense Buddy just cant stay in front of people. The 'he tries really hard' argument means absolutely nothing. That's why i still think his absolute ceiling is JJ Redick.

The Kings just have to be realistic when constructing this team going forward. Come draft time you really have to take BPA. I don't think there's one position on the roster where you can just say "we're set at that position".

[SacKingZZZ]

Buddy is a great shooter but a below-average NBA athlete. That hurts him on both offense and defense. On offense we think he should take more shots but he just doesn't have the quickness to get separation from defenders. That's why he (and to some extent BogI) take a ton of contested shots and have to work really hard to get shots off (you also see Buddy getting a ton of shots blocked on breakaways)

On defense Buddy just cant stay in front of people. The 'he tries really hard' argument means absolutely nothing. That's why i still think his absolute ceiling is JJ Redick.

The Kings just have to be realistic when constructing this team going forward. Come draft time you really have to take BPA. I don't think there's one position on the roster where you can just say "we're set at that position".

Almost every single offensive juggernaut in todays game is reliant on screens out of pick and roll. Buddy can score one on one to some extent with space and in pick and roll he's shown major improvement as a passer and a scorer. And Buddy shows he can stay in front of people OK. He gets beat from time to time, but nobody is proclaiming him to be a great defender. If you isolate a defensive possession on him I think he's better than people give him credit for one on one and in help. It's in pick and roll he tends to struggle, but what Kings player doesn't? They typically zone out of it and give up easy open looks or a straight forward shot at the rim when they do.

And maybe you can't say you are set at any one position, but you also can't say that any of the young pieces have been given a real chance to make things set. That's why the Kings need to speed this up as the season winds down and see what they have. Not it spurts, or every other night. The scouting of your own players needs to begin now.

[benchmobbin02]

Buddy is a great shooter but a below-average NBA athlete. That hurts him on both offense and defense. On offense we think he should take more shots but he just doesn't have the quickness to get separation from defenders. That's why he (and to some extent BogI) take a ton of contested shots and have to work really hard to get shots off (you also see Buddy getting a ton of shots blocked on breakaways)

On defense Buddy just cant stay in front of people. The 'he tries really hard' argument means absolutely nothing. That's why i still think his absolute ceiling is JJ Redick.

The Kings just have to be realistic when constructing this team going forward. Come draft time you really have to take BPA. I don't think there's one position on the roster where you can just say "we're set at that position".

Almost every single offensive juggernaut in todays game is reliant on screens out of pick and roll. Buddy can score one on one to some extent with space and in pick and roll he's shown major improvement as a passer and a scorer. And Buddy shows he can stay in front of people OK. He gets beat from time to time, but nobody is proclaiming him to be a great defender. If you isolate a defensive possession on him I think he's better than people give him credit for one on one and in help. It's in pick and roll he tends to struggle, but what Kings player doesn't? They typically zone out of it and give up easy open looks or a straight forward shot at the rim when they do.

And maybe you can't say you are set at any one position, but you also can't say that any of the young pieces have been given a real chance to make things set. That's why the Kings need to speed this up as the season winds down and see what they have. Not it spurts, or every other night. The scouting of your own players needs to begin now.

We have 32 games left. It's plenty of time to smartly get minutes for the young guys and evaluate them while still sprinkling in the vets as we are doing. We aren't gonna disrespect the VC, Temple and ZBO by just siting them down the stretch like the Suns and the Lakers did last year. They have been nothing but great teammates and played hard all year.

[dozencousins]

As I said, the Kings defense goes far beyond any single defender. And I'd put Buddy's on ball D up against just about anyone on the team sans Bogdan. As a matter of fact Buddy stays in front of PG's better than him from I've seen. Bogdan does extremely well against bigger players.

Agreed with the fact that it takes others to defend as well . What I am saying is that Buddy is one of our worst defenders whom play the guard position .

Fox plays defense a lot , we all know temple when playing guard defends , even hill defends , Bogdon defends . Even when healthy Mason defends . All of that leaves Buddy with less minutes .

Yeah, but you are comparing Fox who has potential to be a great defender and Hill who is already top shelf. Buddy is at the very worst a baseline defender. He'll end up not hurting you much because of his own individual abilities, his impact will fluctuate both directions at times but nothing too major. Not saying that Buddy is at his level but should the Rockets sit James Harden because he couldn't guard a house fly with a flamethrower?

If Buddy is not getting more minutes because of his defense then this team is in trouble from management standpoint. The system is garbage from the top down and Buddy's offensive talents not being used to their full effectiveness is also probably a reason why the Kings are not only the worst defensive team in the league, but the worst offensively as well. No way should they be the worst offensive team.

I'm not a huge fan of some advanced stats, but right now the stats show Buddy is having more impact than Bogdan, Mason, Fox, and is the 4th best on the entire team according to defensive win share.

Your putting words in my mouth as you do not know what I am comparing .

Bottom line is Buddy is our worst defender from the Guard position so barring an injury or unless he drastically gets much better on D his minutes more often than not will not increase by much .
Buddy is not having more of an impact for our team than any of the 3 players you mentioned . The only stat Buddy is comparable is in regards to shooting three's .

[kingjawn100]

A little off topic but the reason i havent been down on Joerger where some people have is cause he’s had maybe the toughest job in the nba this season...

1. Play/develop 10 or so players in their first or second seasons enough minutes to be able to gage whether they’re players we can build around
2. Play veteran players enough minutes to keep them mentoring & emmersed in what we have going on
3. Win enough games to keep fanbass happy
4. Lose enough games to get a high lottery pick

Its unreal whats expected of him this year.

One thing ill say..its seems he’s had a plan to get everyone minutes and he’s stuck to it. Hopefully he has a decent sense of who he can and cant build around by now.

[SacKingZZZ]

Buddy is a great shooter but a below-average NBA athlete. That hurts him on both offense and defense. On offense we think he should take more shots but he just doesn't have the quickness to get separation from defenders. That's why he (and to some extent BogI) take a ton of contested shots and have to work really hard to get shots off (you also see Buddy getting a ton of shots blocked on breakaways)

On defense Buddy just cant stay in front of people. The 'he tries really hard' argument means absolutely nothing. That's why i still think his absolute ceiling is JJ Redick.

The Kings just have to be realistic when constructing this team going forward. Come draft time you really have to take BPA. I don't think there's one position on the roster where you can just say "we're set at that position".

Almost every single offensive juggernaut in todays game is reliant on screens out of pick and roll. Buddy can score one on one to some extent with space and in pick and roll he's shown major improvement as a passer and a scorer. And Buddy shows he can stay in front of people OK. He gets beat from time to time, but nobody is proclaiming him to be a great defender. If you isolate a defensive possession on him I think he's better than people give him credit for one on one and in help. It's in pick and roll he tends to struggle, but what Kings player doesn't? They typically zone out of it and give up easy open looks or a straight forward shot at the rim when they do.

And maybe you can't say you are set at any one position, but you also can't say that any of the young pieces have been given a real chance to make things set. That's why the Kings need to speed this up as the season winds down and see what they have. Not it spurts, or every other night. The scouting of your own players needs to begin now.

We have 32 games left. It's plenty of time to smartly get minutes for the young guys and evaluate them while still sprinkling in the vets as we are doing. We aren't gonna disrespect the VC, Temple and ZBO by just siting them down the stretch like the Suns and the Lakers did last year. They have been nothing but great teammates and played hard all year.

And every one of them were overcompensated to the extent that it shouldn't be an issue if they do.

[SacKingZZZ]

Agreed with the fact that it takes others to defend as well . What I am saying is that Buddy is one of our worst defenders whom play the guard position .

Fox plays defense a lot , we all know temple when playing guard defends , even hill defends , Bogdon defends . Even when healthy Mason defends . All of that leaves Buddy with less minutes .

Yeah, but you are comparing Fox who has potential to be a great defender and Hill who is already top shelf. Buddy is at the very worst a baseline defender. He'll end up not hurting you much because of his own individual abilities, his impact will fluctuate both directions at times but nothing too major. Not saying that Buddy is at his level but should the Rockets sit James Harden because he couldn't guard a house fly with a flamethrower?

If Buddy is not getting more minutes because of his defense then this team is in trouble from management standpoint. The system is garbage from the top down and Buddy's offensive talents not being used to their full effectiveness is also probably a reason why the Kings are not only the worst defensive team in the league, but the worst offensively as well. No way should they be the worst offensive team.

I'm not a huge fan of some advanced stats, but right now the stats show Buddy is having more impact than Bogdan, Mason, Fox, and is the 4th best on the entire team according to defensive win share.

Your putting words in my mouth as you do not know what I am comparing .

Bottom line is Buddy is our worst defender from the Guard position so barring an injury or unless he drastically gets much better on D his minutes more often than not will not increase by much .
Buddy is not having more of an impact for our team than any of the 3 players you mentioned . The only stat Buddy is comparable is in regards to shooting three's .

By what metric? And yes, you brought up the players themselves as a comparison not me. I don't think he's better or will be better than many of the players you did bring up but this isn't an on or off kind of thing. You can be a good defender overall even with lapses considered. He's much better than I thought he would be when watching him in college.

[SacKingZZZ]

A little off topic but the reason i havent been down on Joerger where some people have is cause he’s had maybe the toughest job in the nba this season...

1. Play/develop 10 or so players in their first or second seasons enough minutes to be able to gage whether they’re players we can build around
2. Play veteran players enough minutes to keep them mentoring & emmersed in what we have going on
3. Win enough games to keep fanbass happy
4. Lose enough games to get a high lottery pick

Its unreal whats expected of him this year.

One thing ill say..its seems he’s had a plan to get everyone minutes and he’s stuck to it. Hopefully he has a decent sense of who he can and cant build around by now.

No question it's tough for him but you can't just look at expectations, but rather what has happened up to this point. The biggest issue beyond all is how he's having them play. He's put in a system that very clearly does not fit much of the talent on his roster with the exception of the veterans they brought in. He's slowly chipped away at it and put in more of what works but the fact that it took that look should be a concern. Joerger is one of those coaches that apparently doesn't know a whole lot about draft scouting by his own admission IIRC. That's not good in my opinion. Saying that you will make your own mind up after players are drafted is a dangerous game because you could be potentially ignoring all the information you need to get the most out of a player. Now that we've seen quite a few players on the roster used counter to many of the reasons they were drafted as high as they were it provides the possibility that a lack of intel could thwart the Kings chances to get the most out of the players they do have.

Part of what's wrong is the fault of the GM, but you can't ignore what has happened on the floor. The Kings went out and spent money to not be the worst team, yet here they are. They are failing on both sides of the ball and much of that can be traced back to what they are doing on both sides.

[benchmobbin02]

Almost every single offensive juggernaut in todays game is reliant on screens out of pick and roll. Buddy can score one on one to some extent with space and in pick and roll he's shown major improvement as a passer and a scorer. And Buddy shows he can stay in front of people OK. He gets beat from time to time, but nobody is proclaiming him to be a great defender. If you isolate a defensive possession on him I think he's better than people give him credit for one on one and in help. It's in pick and roll he tends to struggle, but what Kings player doesn't? They typically zone out of it and give up easy open looks or a straight forward shot at the rim when they do.

And maybe you can't say you are set at any one position, but you also can't say that any of the young pieces have been given a real chance to make things set. That's why the Kings need to speed this up as the season winds down and see what they have. Not it spurts, or every other night. The scouting of your own players needs to begin now.

We have 32 games left. It's plenty of time to smartly get minutes for the young guys and evaluate them while still sprinkling in the vets as we are doing. We aren't gonna disrespect the VC, Temple and ZBO by just siting them down the stretch like the Suns and the Lakers did last year. They have been nothing but great teammates and played hard all year.

And every one of them were overcompensated to the extent that it shouldn't be an issue if they do.

We are already limiting their minutes and my point is I'd wager they didn't sign up for sitting large stretches like the Suns did. The current plan is sufficient to get good looks at the young guys and let the vets play.

[SacKingZZZ]

We have 32 games left. It's plenty of time to smartly get minutes for the young guys and evaluate them while still sprinkling in the vets as we are doing. We aren't gonna disrespect the VC, Temple and ZBO by just siting them down the stretch like the Suns and the Lakers did last year. They have been nothing but great teammates and played hard all year.

And every one of them were overcompensated to the extent that it shouldn't be an issue if they do.

We are already limiting their minutes and my point is I'd wager they didn't sign up for sitting large stretches like the Suns did. The current plan is sufficient to get good looks at the young guys and let the vets play.

I'd say sitting wouldn't normally be protocol either but most teams don't have this many young players needing time. They overloaded the team with draft picks then signed veterans at the same spots on top of it. Not sitting them at this point basically means continuing a slower path forward which considering the Kings 2019 pick issues shouldn't be an option.

[benchmobbin02]

And every one of them were overcompensated to the extent that it shouldn't be an issue if they do.

We are already limiting their minutes and my point is I'd wager they didn't sign up for sitting large stretches like the Suns did. The current plan is sufficient to get good looks at the young guys and let the vets play.

I'd say sitting wouldn't normally be protocol either but most teams don't have this many young players needing time. They overloaded the team with draft picks then signed veterans at the same spots on top of it. Not sitting them at this point basically means continuing a slower path forward which considering the Kings 2019 pick issues shouldn't be an option.

I disagree that it is slowing the path forward. I think with the current plan that the coaches are following the guys are getting sufficient minutes for us to get looks at them.

I do understand where you are coming from though in terms of Malachi and Papa. Those are the 2 that seem to be not getting minutes but I have a feeling they probably haven't earned them in Joegers eyes on occasion.

[SacKingZZZ]

We are already limiting their minutes and my point is I'd wager they didn't sign up for sitting large stretches like the Suns did. The current plan is sufficient to get good looks at the young guys and let the vets play.

I'd say sitting wouldn't normally be protocol either but most teams don't have this many young players needing time. They overloaded the team with draft picks then signed veterans at the same spots on top of it. Not sitting them at this point basically means continuing a slower path forward which considering the Kings 2019 pick issues shouldn't be an option.

I disagree that it is slowing the path forward. I think with the current plan that the coaches are following the guys are getting sufficient minutes for us to get looks at them.

I do understand where you are coming from though in terms of Malachi and Papa. Those are the 2 that seem to be not getting minutes but I have a feeling they probably haven't earned them in Joegers eyes on occasion.

And I figure the team has performed so poorly for the most part that getting looks isn't good enough. It's time for the franchise to finally hunker down and make the typical rebuild moves that almost all rebuilding/failing teams make. There is no use to invest time in short term pieces any longer. And I think it's time that 5 young guys get full time starters minutes to see how they respond and kick up the development process. Sure they could wait until the last 4 weeks of the season but I think doing it sooner than later would put them in a position to face real stiff competition and not teams winding down their season or resting up for the playoffs.

[kingjawn100]

A little off topic but the reason i havent been down on Joerger where some people have is cause he’s had maybe the toughest job in the nba this season...

1. Play/develop 10 or so players in their first or second seasons enough minutes to be able to gage whether they’re players we can build around
2. Play veteran players enough minutes to keep them mentoring & emmersed in what we have going on
3. Win enough games to keep fanbass happy
4. Lose enough games to get a high lottery pick

Its unreal whats expected of him this year.

One thing ill say..its seems he’s had a plan to get everyone minutes and he’s stuck to it. Hopefully he has a decent sense of who he can and cant build around by now.

No question it's tough for him but you can't just look at expectations, but rather what has happened up to this point. The biggest issue beyond all is how he's having them play. He's put in a system that very clearly does not fit much of the talent on his roster with the exception of the veterans they brought in. He's slowly chipped away at it and put in more of what works but the fact that it took that look should be a concern. Joerger is one of those coaches that apparently doesn't know a whole lot about draft scouting by his own admission IIRC. That's not good in my opinion. Saying that you will make your own mind up after players are drafted is a dangerous game because you could be potentially ignoring all the information you need to get the most out of a player. Now that we've seen quite a few players on the roster used counter to many of the reasons they were drafted as high as they were it provides the possibility that a lack of intel could thwart the Kings chances to get the most out of the players they do have.

Part of what's wrong is the fault of the GM, but you can't ignore what has happened on the floor. The Kings went out and spent money to not be the worst team, yet here they are. They are failing on both sides of the ball and much of that can be traced back to what they are doing on both sides.

I almost consider this an evaluation year the Kings and i think management feels the same: Play everyone enough minutes to the point where you can decide whether they should be on this team going forward. With such a long rebuild you don't wanna give up on a kid without giving him enough playing time to evaluate (of course this comes with the caveat of having to play vets a good deal to keep them happy and keep their trade value up).

The only issue at all i have with Joerger is the stylistic mismatch with Fox. I feel like as long as Joerger is coaching he'll play a half-court/throw it down to your big man sort of offense. This seems to run totally counter to having the fastest player in the league as your point guard. Does anyone else wonder what Fox would look like playing on an uptempo team like Phoenix of LAL? Joerger's type of slow tempo play seems to make Fox so much more passive/less confident. Just a guess but if Fox becomes an all-star at some point in his career i doubt it's with Joerger as his head coach.

[Castor_Troy]

Not sure if its Joerger's system as much as it's Joerger's instance on playing ZBO with the starting unit. In games where he's rested and we get a WCS/Skal lineup the court spacing and speed opens up for Fox.