Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5

[Saberestar]

What about Chriss and our pick top 6 protected for Gordon?

I would consider that.

[Dambo]

As long as we include Dragan on that deal, I'm down.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

noooooooooooooooo

[nevetsov]

I just don't think they'd have any interest in Chriss/ Bender given they have Isaac at the 4 spot.

TJ is probably the closest thing we have value-wise to AG, but I love TJ as a player and would be very reluctant to give him up. I can see the FO considering this though, if they are sold on JJ's potential.

Problem then is that we'd have a surplus of PFs and they'd have a glut of SFs. I'd try and bundle in a Chriss/ Bender for a SF but I don't think the Magic have any with equivalent value (Hezonja/Simmons/Ross don't cut it IMO). If we could convince them to offer a first round pick swap to make up the value I'd be more inclined to bite the bullet, given that would guarantee us a starting PG/C moving forward, but I doubt they'd consider that.

Or now that we're massively under the cap, we could consider a Len for Vujevic deal if we have no interest in retaining Len. Vuj becomes a $12.5m expiring next season and could be a useful tide-over until we find a long term solution.


EDIT: Warren/Chriss/Len for Gordon/Vujevic/Simmons is something I could probably get behind, if only for the way it manages our cap and sets us up for next season (assuming we can nab a PG in the draft by moving up and/or consolidating picks):

Knight, ROOKIE, Ulis
Booker, Daniels (exp), Reed
Jackson, Simmons
Gordon, Bender, Dudley (exp)
Vujevic (exp), Williams, Chandler (exp)

Set at PG/SG/SF/PF moving forward, with $40m coming off the books to accommodate Booker's max ($25m?) and a year of kicking the tyres on Vujevic. Enough money there to retain Vuj if he's worth keeping. Otherwise, we still have Bender/ MIA 2021 and future picks to use/ deal for a C.

[bigfoot]

I have no idea why the Magic would want to trade AG. He is the only player worth something there, and they will draft in the top3 as it is. I think thats a bogus rumour, sorry. But if it has legs, I'm willing to give them Chriss+Mia+1 or 2 seconds. I might even swap Tyson for Biyombo if they want to shed some salary, but kinda uncertain at that... Maybe if no first round pick is involved, but I doubt they do that.

I wonder if they are shopping him because he falls in that really hard category of guys that are good so you don't want to lose them for nothing but he's maybe not quite a guy that you would absolutely match a max contract if some team gives him one in FA. Guys like that are hard because if they get overpaid their value as an asset goes down. They also might love my guy Isaac and feel he's the better PF of the future so they are looking to cash in on Gordon.

Also have to wonder if he has told them he doesn't want to play in Orlando and it has been kept quiet. Told them he would rather sign qualifying offer. Could be other reasons why they are shopping him.

[Saberestar]

And what about Julius Randle?

He is gonna be traded before the deadline and he has played really well this season. The Lakers want to sign LeBron, George...so they are not gonna retain him, but we can use a frontcourt player like him. He is 23.

He is strong and he can play PF or C. Great rebounder and decent passer. I like him over Chandler, Williams or Len playing C for us next season.

[bwoolf2]

What about Chriss and our pick top 6 protected for Gordon?

I would consider that.

Your kidding right? We are talking about Aaron Gordon right? He has not made his team better any year in the league and Chriss is going to be the better player by himself. Again one of 4 players ever with 80/80/80 before 21 years old. No no no and no. They are open to trading him because Isacc is going to be the better player and the Magic know it, plus someone is going to overpay for Gordon and it isnt going to be the Magic.

[Qwigglez]

So you don't want him THAT much if your offer is Bender or Chriss and late first rounders. That wouldn't get it done. It would take more.

I might give him an offer in RFA if Orlando might be hesitant to match.

All in all, Orlando is probably just testing the waters, don't want to pay him the 5 year max, and will let another team set the value and match. That way they don't have to pay a full 5 year max and may be able to pay quite a bit less.

Well, that is why I said "or even a little more". I would probably add another first round pick ( 2019 Suns Top 5 protected for two years and then unprotected) or change the trade offer and give them Chriss AND Bender.

I love the overall fit and his potential as a third scorer on this team.

So you'd trade all that for just matching rights? Would you trade Jackson?

What does Jackson have to do with any of this. We wouldn't trade JJ for AG, if we did the Magic would have to add value here. Or are you saying that it would likely take a top 5 pick to get the Magic to trade AG? Because even that isn't equal value.
If they are considering trading him it's because they don't want to give him a max, like you mentioned. Still, some team may offer him that and then the Magic would let him go for nothing, or they match a 4 year max, and during those 4 years are trying to develop Isaacs, their 2018 1st, and any other youngsters. It could be a waste of cap space especially if they don't believe in him to be that franchise cornerstone.
I could see the Magic trading him for one of Chriss/Bender, or Warren plus the Bucks and Heat pick, and the Suns top 5 protected 2019 pick. That's a good rebuilding package, though they likely want to trade a bad contract too, but I doubt they'd have any bidders then, or the package would be significantly less because then it would be roughly 30% of cap space to take on AG. And again I don't see any team making that kind of maneuver.

Also I think the package I mentioned would be far greater than what other teams would offer, and honestly don't think it will even take that much to get him.

[dremill24]

And what about Julius Randle?

He is gonna be traded before the deadline and he has played really well this season. The Lakers want to sign LeBron, George...so they are not gonna retain him, but we can use a frontcourt player like him. He is 23.

He is strong and he can play PF or C. Great rebounder and decent passer. I like him over Chandler, Williams or Len playing C for us next season.

I’m not a huge fan, but if the Suns were interested, I think he’s definitely someone that can be had in FA, as opposed to giving up assets for him now.

[NavLDO]

Read on Twitter

I hope he gets it, he’s already gotten robbed twice in his career, once with us in the 48 win season and then again last year.

For what??

http://bkref.com/tiny/48egM

And before the all-star game, Kemba had played 7 more games, was averaging almost 4 PPG more than Dragic, they were both about 41% from 3, yet Kemba was for 7 Atts to Dragic's 4. Kemba had him beat in FT%, TOVs and PFs, and they were even, though with slight edges for Kemba in TRB, Stls, and Blks. Slight edge in FG% to Dragic, and only in Assts, did Dragic have him beat substantially.

Considering Kemba was the 'last' PG from the East to make it, I find it hard to say he got 'robbed'.

As far as this year?? Not even close. Dragic is having one of his worst years since being in the league. The Heat are winning, sure, but not becuase he's been so great a PG for them...

I know players are all vouching for other players to make it, so on and so forth, but if you want to talk about someone who got robbed...

http://bkref.com/tiny/pJPC0

It's easy to shoot 3s when you have two other guys shooting over 6 atts/gm at 40+% vs being the ONLY reliable threat on the team...oh, and having to play PG half the time...there is your guy who got robbed...

Apparently, 17/4.8/4.1 is all the rage this year as All-Stars

Seriously. Here are, I assume, the 6 best choices at PG in the East to make up for Wall's absence. Now, look at the categories, and show me where Dragic leads...in ANY of them.

http://bkref.com/tiny/AwE0b

Worse than that, he's 2nd to last in Stls, ORtg, BPM, VORP, and OWS.

Even worse than that, he was deadlast in Asst%.

And here's where, I get accused by Frank of being a Dragic-Hater/Kemba-Lover, but this has ZERO to do with Kemba. Dragic?? Well, yeah, but mostly, I think it's stupid he's being selected to go to an All-Star game because his team is winning. The Sixers are winning, as well, right? Well, they're .500, so, close anyway.

You can't tell me that Dragic is having more of a positive impact on his team than Simmons is...not to mention, other than the .3 PPG advantage that Dragic has, Simmons has twice as many Rebounds and Steals, 5x as many Blocks, 1.5x as many Assts, and 'bests' Dragic in about every meaningful statistical category there is...in his FIRST season.

So yeah, I could go on about half a dozen other 'non-deserving' players that are in over more deserving 'snubbed' players, but this, to me, is the most egregious of them all, so this isn't some 'hate train' I'm on about Dragic. Good for him. He's on. And yes, he likely deserved it the year he was with us (not last year, as I've shown), the year we were good, and so was he, so if this is some misguided effort to make that 'wrong' a 'right' somehow?

Well, ok, I guess, but every year it happens...players not making it when they should. But it's because decisions like this that make these things happen. How long until Booker finally gets his nod? How is 24.5/4.8/4.4 and 38.3% from 3 as a Combo Guard not good enough, yet 17/4.8/4.1 and 35% from 3 is? Because of the Conference he is in?? When the teams are not even split by conference? Who cares what conference he's in. Seriously, why should Booker WANT to stay on the Suns, when this kind of crap happens, and he can go East, make the All-Star team EVERY year, starting the year after next, when allowed, take a dip in pay, but start earning those endorsement contracts instead, and have a better chance at winning a title? This is the kind of stuff that is making small market teams lose their players. It's not just about 'glitter' and 'lights' and 'nightlife'...

I'd be pi$$ed as hell if Booker leaves next year, but I wouldn't blame HIM...but shoot, apparently, being a rookie and being better isn;t good enough either, so who knows...

[ATTL]

I'd trade TJ for Gordon

No chance we trade Warren. I think Gordon fits perfectly on this team.

What do you propose we trade?

Magic fans suggest josh jackson and the 2018 suns pick.
Suns fans suggest chriss and Miami pick.

[Stix]

I'd trade TJ for Gordon

No chance we trade Warren. I think Gordon fits perfectly on this team.

What do you propose we trade?

Magic fans suggest josh jackson and the 2018 suns pick.
Suns fans suggest chriss and Miami pick.

Chriss and a 2nd rounder or two is what I would give up. Chriss still has a ton of potential but I like Aaron Gordon's game.

[sunsbum]

So for those of you who would rather save money for free agency, realistically off this list who is going to sign here? No one better than AG I can almost guarantee you that. If Avery Bradly is McDs big prize I'm officially done with him.

http://hoopshype.com/2018/01/11/nba-free-agency-2018-the-top-players/

[sunsbum]

No chance we trade Warren. I think Gordon fits perfectly on this team.

What do you propose we trade?

Magic fans suggest josh jackson and the 2018 suns pick.
Suns fans suggest chriss and Miami pick.

Chriss and a 2nd rounder or two is what I would give up. Chriss still has a ton of potential but I like Aaron Gordon's game.

Gordon is far better than Chriss. Better passer, shooter, rebounder, 3pt shooter basketball IQ. What kind of joke of a GM is going to take chriss and a 2nd rounder or 2?

[LukasBMW]

I'd rather MAX AG in free agency and hope Orlando passes then trade for him only to max him.

Orlando obviously doesn't want to max him.

I don't like the fact that his outside shot isn't consistent and we already lack sharpshooters in a longball league.

Jackson + TJ + AG = 3 guys suspect from 3

Booker and Daniels can't do it all.

[bwoolf2]

What do you propose we trade?

Magic fans suggest josh jackson and the 2018 suns pick.
Suns fans suggest chriss and Miami pick.

Chriss and a 2nd rounder or two is what I would give up. Chriss still has a ton of potential but I like Aaron Gordon's game.

Gordon is far better than Chriss. Better passer, shooter, rebounder, 3pt shooter basketball IQ. What kind of joke of a GM is going to take chriss and a 2nd rounder or 2?

Come on dude at least do your homework 1st... Whos who in this case and dont look it up this is the 2nd year in the NBA for both players and one was a little younger than the other at the time.




21.2
7.1
41.1
29.8
5.1
1.2
0.7
1.0






23.9
9.2
47.3
29.6
6.5
1.6
0.8
0.7

[King4Day]

I'm a little surprised at the poll results, unless it's just an AZ thing or an injury thing....because Parker last year was better than Gordon this year across the board...slightly fewer rebounds but better everywhere else and the much higher rated prospect. I guess Gordon is a tad better defensively.

http://bkref.com/tiny/sjppJ

Not that I'm sure I want either...certainly not enough to trade assets for if we can just give them a RFA offer.

I picked Gordon. 100% because of Parker's injuries. Otherwise, I'd prob have gone Jabari

[King4Day]

I'd trade TJ for Gordon

No chance we trade Warren. I think Gordon fits perfectly on this team.

What do you propose we trade?

Magic fans suggest josh jackson and the 2018 suns pick.
Suns fans suggest chriss and Miami pick.

I think our best shot would be to try maxing him and hoping Orlando doesn't match. IMO, they will match and try trading him next year. So regardless, we won't get him. I'm def not trading this years pick and Jackson for him. I'd deal one of Bender/Chriss and a Miami and Bucks pick if need be. That's it though.

[kennydorglas]

I'm a little surprised at the poll results, unless it's just an AZ thing or an injury thing....because Parker last year was better than Gordon this year across the board...slightly fewer rebounds but better everywhere else and the much higher rated prospect. I guess Gordon is a tad better defensively.

http://bkref.com/tiny/sjppJ

Not that I'm sure I want either...certainly not enough to trade assets for if we can just give them a RFA offer.

I picked Gordon. 100% because of Parker's injuries. Otherwise, I'd prob have gone Jabari

2 ACL is too much to overcome. I dont think Parker is done, but i wouldnt bet on him at all.

[NavLDO]

I'd trade TJ for Gordon

No way. Seriously?????

TJ is locked into a bargain deal, is still improving, and is a quiet/humble guy.

We'd trade him only to max AG? Pass. Easy pass!

Agree. Best thing would to get a 3rd team involved to get the money to work out somehow for us to get AG, and I'd like to give Hezonja a shot.

It would be nice if we could give Chriss up in the process, as well, so we can concentrate on Bender.

Top 5 Pick / Booker / JJ / AG / Mia '18 Pick

Ulis (Gray?) / Hezonja / Warren / Bender / Sauce