M.Scotto: Toronto made Powell available in trade discussions

[dagger]

This scotto dude is actually pretty legit. Can someone actually confirm wether or not we can trade Powell this season

I reread Larry Coon's FAQ, and there is some ambiguity, but I believe we can - it's just that the poison pill provision applies. In essence, you have to create an average annual salary of his current salary and his extension - which works out to about $8.7 million. In trading him, his outgoing salary for the receiving team would be $8.7 million, but the Raptors can only take back $1.6 million. So normally, the receiving team has to have either enough cap space or a trade exception to absorb that. For sake of argument, the Bulls are one such team with a lot of cap space. But getting a play worth $1.6m would unlikely do much for the Raptors, except lighten their salaries situation for next year (which is one reason Powell might have been put on the market). However, the Raptors also have the Carroll trade exception which would allow them to take on a bigger salary, so a trade for current value might utilizing cap space and trade exceptions, but you need to have a willing trade partner with the requisite cap/exception flexibility to do that. And of course, this would put the Raptors into a tax position, and not just by a few dollars.

I don't think we can pair up the exception with a player to trade. I'll have to check.

You do separate, simultaneous trades. Powell into cap space or a trade exception, receiving team trades into our trade exception.

[mtcan]

This scotto dude is actually pretty legit. Can someone actually confirm wether or not we can trade Powell this season

I reread Larry Coon's FAQ, and there is some ambiguity, but I believe we can - it's just that the poison pill provision applies. In essence, you have to create an average annual salary of his current salary and his extension - which works out to about $8.7 million. In trading him, his outgoing salary for the receiving team would be $8.7 million, but the Raptors can only take back $1.6 million. So normally, the receiving team has to have either enough cap space or a trade exception to absorb that. For sake of argument, the Bulls are one such team with a lot of cap space. But getting a play worth $1.6m would unlikely do much for the Raptors, except lighten their salaries situation for next year (which is one reason Powell might have been put on the market). However, the Raptors also have the Carroll trade exception which would allow them to take on a bigger salary, so a trade for current value might utilizing cap space and trade exceptions, but you need to have a willing trade partner with the requisite cap/exception flexibility to do that. And of course, this would put the Raptors into a tax position, and not just by a few dollars.

Thanks for the post. Makes it a bit more clearer now.

Is there any team that we can trade with that fits the circumstance? While also filling a need on the team?

Would almost certainly require a 3rd team to make it work. Chicago is now out of the picture because they took on salary from New Orleans...and the only teams that far under the cap are Phoenix, Indiana and Dallas. Phoenix might have interest...but they already have Devin Booker as their present and future. Indiana has Oladipo. Dallas might be interested...but they have no one that would interest us...unless it is a filler and a draft pick.

[RaptorsLife]

I reread Larry Coon's FAQ, and there is some ambiguity, but I believe we can - it's just that the poison pill provision applies. In essence, you have to create an average annual salary of his current salary and his extension - which works out to about $8.7 million. In trading him, his outgoing salary for the receiving team would be $8.7 million, but the Raptors can only take back $1.6 million. So normally, the receiving team has to have either enough cap space or a trade exception to absorb that. For sake of argument, the Bulls are one such team with a lot of cap space. But getting a play worth $1.6m would unlikely do much for the Raptors, except lighten their salaries situation for next year (which is one reason Powell might have been put on the market). However, the Raptors also have the Carroll trade exception which would allow them to take on a bigger salary, so a trade for current value might utilizing cap space and trade exceptions, but you need to have a willing trade partner with the requisite cap/exception flexibility to do that. And of course, this would put the Raptors into a tax position, and not just by a few dollars.

I don't think we can pair up the exception with a player to trade. I'll have to check.

You do separate, simultaneous trades. Powell into cap space or a trade exception, receiving team trades into our trade exception.

Atlanta makes sense with Marco

[OP7]

I dont see any feasible trade that would improve the Raptors right now. Not interested in DJ or Gasol considering JV..

We also have Powell locked in for the next few years.. doesn't make sense to trade him at his low point.

[mrdressup]

I'd move him and his money owing now. That's money better spent of FVV. Norm isn't moving the needle for us and it's pretty obvious that Fred is.

[Mr Burns]

I don't think we can pair up the exception with a player to trade. I'll have to check.

You do separate, simultaneous trades. Powell into cap space or a trade exception, receiving team trades into our trade exception.

Atlanta makes sense with Marco

Would rather keep Powell.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

I was just about to post the separate trades bit but deals are rough unless it’s a 3 team+ affair that is never worth the research.

Norm could be nice in Dallas between Dennis Smith Jr and Barnes, I’d take little in return if we could keep Fred and put Norm in a good spot.

Edit: forgot about the extension rules

[PhilBlackson]

Aren't all of Tyreke, Lou Will and Hood feasible options under this poison pill provision?!

[XxIronChainzxX]

I reread Larry Coon's FAQ, and there is some ambiguity, but I believe we can - it's just that the poison pill provision applies. In essence, you have to create an average annual salary of his current salary and his extension - which works out to about $8.7 million. In trading him, his outgoing salary for the receiving team would be $8.7 million, but the Raptors can only take back $1.6 million. So normally, the receiving team has to have either enough cap space or a trade exception to absorb that. For sake of argument, the Bulls are one such team with a lot of cap space. But getting a play worth $1.6m would unlikely do much for the Raptors, except lighten their salaries situation for next year (which is one reason Powell might have been put on the market). However, the Raptors also have the Carroll trade exception which would allow them to take on a bigger salary, so a trade for current value might utilizing cap space and trade exceptions, but you need to have a willing trade partner with the requisite cap/exception flexibility to do that. And of course, this would put the Raptors into a tax position, and not just by a few dollars.

I don't think we can pair up the exception with a player to trade. I'll have to check.

You do separate, simultaneous trades. Powell into cap space or a trade exception, receiving team trades into our trade exception.

Fair. So then mechanically, how does it work with us and (potentially) the other team being over the cap? We'd need to take back two players wouldn't we? One for Powell and one for the TPE?

[Splinter]

Unless its from woj/shams/stein/spears take it with a grain of salt. Trade deadline is when everyone becomes insiders

This scotto dude is actually pretty legit. Can someone actually confirm wether or not we can trade Powell this season

I reread Larry Coon's FAQ, and there is some ambiguity, but I believe we can - it's just that the poison pill provision applies. In essence, you have to create an average annual salary of his current salary and his extension - which works out to about $8.7 million. In trading him, his outgoing salary for the receiving team would be $8.7 million, but the Raptors can only take back $1.6 million. So normally, the receiving team has to have either enough cap space or a trade exception to absorb that. For sake of argument, the Bulls are one such team with a lot of cap space. But getting a play worth $1.6m would unlikely do much for the Raptors, except lighten their salaries situation for next year (which is one reason Powell might have been put on the market). However, the Raptors also have the Carroll trade exception which would allow them to take on a bigger salary, so a trade for current value might utilizing cap space and trade exceptions, but you need to have a willing trade partner with the requisite cap/exception flexibility to do that. And of course, this would put the Raptors into a tax position, and not just by a few dollars.

Where's DHackett when ya need him lol he's done a rundown of this before.

From what I remember the PPP provision only applies to normal rookie scale contracts. Norm was a second rounder and was signed using cap space. Therefore veteran extension rules apply where he can't be traded for 6 months after signing the extension.

[VanWest82]

I still don't understand how we're allowed to trade Powell before April 5, 2018 (i.e. six months after agreeing to his extension). Per NBA Salary Cap FAQ: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q95; http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q101

95. Can a player be given an extension and traded at the same time?

Similar to a sign-and-trade arrangement (see question number 92), a team may sign an eligible player to an extension (see question number 58) and immediately trade him to another team. Such an "extend-and-trade" is limited to three seasons, which include any seasons remaining on the player's current contract.

101. When can't a player be traded? ...

...In addition, teams cannot trade players under the following circumstances:
...For six months after signing a player to an extension that is over the limit (in terms of years, salary or raises) for an extend-and-trade transaction5 (see question number 95).

Powell has five years left on his deal (including this year). He's clearly over the limit. What am I missing here?

[dagger]

Not if you trade Powell into cap space or a trade exception. That would be one trade. The return would go into one of our trade exceptions.


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[FluLikeSymptoms]

That creep should’ve asked Bobby last night.

[Splinter]

I still don't understand how we're allowed to trade Powell before April 5, 2018 (i.e. six months after agreeing to his extension). Per NBA Salary Cap FAQ: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q95; http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q101

95. Can a player be given an extension and traded at the same time?

Similar to a sign-and-trade arrangement (see question number 92), a team may sign an eligible player to an extension (see question number 58) and immediately trade him to another team. Such an "extend-and-trade" is limited to three seasons, which include any seasons remaining on the player's current contract.

101. When can't a player be traded? ...

...In addition, teams cannot trade players under the following circumstances:
...For six months after signing a player to an extension that is over the limit (in terms of years, salary or raises) for an extend-and-trade transaction5 (see question number 95).

What am I missing here?

You sir are correct. He can't be traded yet.

[XxIronChainzxX]

Not if you trade Powell into cap space or a trade exception. That would be one trade. The return would go into one of our trade exceptions.


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Right, fair point. Appreciate the insight. I'll check the FAQ just to become familiar with it all again. Seems like it narrows the market a bit, but interesting we're prepared to walk away from him.

[dagger]

Not if you trade Powell into cap space or a trade exception. That would be one trade. The return would go into one of our trade exceptions.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Right, fair point. Appreciate the insight. I'll check the FAQ just to become familiar with it all again. Seems like it narrows the market a bit, but interesting we're prepared to walk away from him.

Supposedly. Who knows if we were just dumping him or testing the market for this summer when he, and others would be easier to trade.


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[Jermaine OBosh]

This scotto dude is actually pretty legit. Can someone actually confirm wether or not we can trade Powell this season

I reread Larry Coon's FAQ, and there is some ambiguity, but I believe we can - it's just that the poison pill provision applies. In essence, you have to create an average annual salary of his current salary and his extension - which works out to about $8.7 million. In trading him, his outgoing salary for the receiving team would be $8.7 million, but the Raptors can only take back $1.6 million. So normally, the receiving team has to have either enough cap space or a trade exception to absorb that. For sake of argument, the Bulls are one such team with a lot of cap space. But getting a play worth $1.6m would unlikely do much for the Raptors, except lighten their salaries situation for next year (which is one reason Powell might have been put on the market). However, the Raptors also have the Carroll trade exception which would allow them to take on a bigger salary, so a trade for current value might utilizing cap space and trade exceptions, but you need to have a willing trade partner with the requisite cap/exception flexibility to do that. And of course, this would put the Raptors into a tax position, and not just by a few dollars.

Thanks for the post. Makes it a bit more clearer now.

Is there any team that we can trade with that fits the circumstance? While also filling a need on the team?

Only teams that are about 8 mil below the Salary caps are

Dallas (Maxi, Ferrell)
Chicago (Paul Zipser)
Phoenix - Troy Daniels

[VanWest82]

The only way I'd believe this rumor is if the Kings or Lakers front office was involved. Every other team's management can read the Larry Coon FAQ.

[Cheesin]

I'd do norm and JV for LA

Think it's the most likely move if the raptors were to trade for a star. Would actually save the Raptors a little money next year and get you that 3rd star that fits the 3 year window

[Mr Burns]

What about a trade with the suns?

Trade #1:
Toronto out: Norman Powell
Toronto in: TPE

Trade #2
Toronto Out: TPE
Toronto In: Troy Daniels

Daniels gives us shooting off the bench. Not sure the Suns bite though....