Nets - In Season Moves & Possible Trade Ideas

[LKIRNets]

I'm hearing the Heat have interest in Carroll. Possibly dangling Winslow. Thoughts? Will Marks bite?

I'm picking up that phone.

[SpeedyG]

The two questions are 1) whether he can do it? 2) how much will it cost to sign him?

If RHJ and Gordon were signed to similar deals, I'd prefer Gordon because I prefer his size and believe in his greater offensive potential.
But if Gordon is seeking to get paid 2x as much as RHJ, I'd rather keep RHJ.

Good breakdown. Both are close, IMO, though I will give Gordon an edge offensively and Rondae edge defensively. If all things equal, contract and compensation wise (including injury, which i think both have ? marks there), I take Gordon...especially for this team.

The way we play defense funnels offenses towards the inside. Often times, we get killed on the boards because our one true big-man (Zeller, Allen, even Okafor) challenges the shot, and with them out of position, the opposing team crashes and kills us on the board. Now, its not always the 4 that kills us, sometimes the responsibility is on the guards/wing to box out as well, but teams with bigger 4s have more often than not killed us.

As you said, Gordon I think helps us better there than Rondae does. A big bigger, a bit stronger, a bit more of a jumper. Keep in mind that Gordon also has to contend with another rebounder in Vucevic, while still able to grab 8 a game. Our leading rebounders right now are Rondae and DMC, both at 6.5

Offensively, we already know Gordon can space our offense. He's attempting just about as many 3s as Dinwiddie has taken this season (per game) and shot a better percentage. He's shooting better than DMC, Acy, and Caris as well. He'd just a hair under Crabbe, who is probably our #2 3pt shooting option behind Joe. This at age 22 and without a chance to work with our development team yet.

I don't think he's quite 20/10, especially in our team, but it wouldn't surprise me if he's 18/9. It's not a shot to Rondae, who has done a tremendous job of improving (and i'm not sure he can 100% extend his range consistently to three, at least not as a high volume like we need/want in our offense shooting 3-5 a game, because his release from 3 still doesn't look natural. Not saying he can't make it, since we've seen guys with unnatural shots do that in the NBA), I just think for what we want out of our PF both offensively and defensively, Gordon is a better fit.

[DarkXaero]

Winslow doesn't interest me. He's crap offensively and not enough of a game changer defensively. Defensive wings who can't shoot aren't that hard to come by.

[MrDollarBills]

Winslow is a plus defensively and is 21 years old. the bigger question is his health. if Miami called us tomorrow offering Winslow and expiring contracts for Carroll I'd take that seriously.

also, its funny how fans of a team who once had Jason Kidd as its top player are prejudiced against guys who aren't knockdown shooters.

that being said, to do this trade we'd have to take back Wayne Ellington and an expiring around 1 mil. If this is the best deal we'd get for DMC, i'd do it, waive the incoming expiring salary, and immediately get Justice Winslow into the hands of the training team

[MrDollarBills]

The two questions are 1) whether he can do it? 2) how much will it cost to sign him?

If RHJ and Gordon were signed to similar deals, I'd prefer Gordon because I prefer his size and believe in his greater offensive potential.
But if Gordon is seeking to get paid 2x as much as RHJ, I'd rather keep RHJ.

Good breakdown. Both are close, IMO, though I will give Gordon an edge offensively and Rondae edge defensively. If all things equal, contract and compensation wise (including injury, which i think both have ? marks there), I take Gordon...especially for this team.

The way we play defense funnels offenses towards the inside. Often times, we get killed on the boards because our one true big-man (Zeller, Allen, even Okafor) challenges the shot, and with them out of position, the opposing team crashes and kills us on the board. Now, its not always the 4 that kills us, sometimes the responsibility is on the guards/wing to box out as well, but teams with bigger 4s have more often than not killed us.

As you said, Gordon I think helps us better there than Rondae does. A big bigger, a bit stronger, a bit more of a jumper. Keep in mind that Gordon also has to contend with another rebounder in Vucevic, while still able to grab 8 a game. Our leading rebounders right now are Rondae and DMC, both at 6.5

Offensively, we already know Gordon can space our offense. He's attempting just about as many 3s as Dinwiddie has taken this season (per game) and shot a better percentage. He's shooting better than DMC, Acy, and Caris as well. He'd just a hair under Crabbe, who is probably our #2 3pt shooting option behind Joe. This at age 22 and without a chance to work with our development team yet.

I don't think he's quite 20/10, especially in our team, but it wouldn't surprise me if he's 18/9. It's not a shot to Rondae, who has done a tremendous job of improving (and i'm not sure he can 100% extend his range consistently to three, at least not as a high volume like we need/want in our offense shooting 3-5 a game, because his release from 3 still doesn't look natural. Not saying he can't make it, since we've seen guys with unnatural shots do that in the NBA), I just think for what we want out of our PF both offensively and defensively, Gordon is a better fit.

I understand the bigger/stronger argument. Gordon is 6'9 i get that.

however, i think it still just boils down to one player that hits threes at a good clip, and one who doesn't yet. and its okay if there's a difference in opinion in valuing certain skillsets versus another.

my question is, why is Orlando about to let this guy walk?

because i'd be pretty shocked if the Nets let RHJ walk.

explain that to me.

[SpeedyG]

The two questions are 1) whether he can do it? 2) how much will it cost to sign him?

If RHJ and Gordon were signed to similar deals, I'd prefer Gordon because I prefer his size and believe in his greater offensive potential.
But if Gordon is seeking to get paid 2x as much as RHJ, I'd rather keep RHJ.

Good breakdown. Both are close, IMO, though I will give Gordon an edge offensively and Rondae edge defensively. If all things equal, contract and compensation wise (including injury, which i think both have ? marks there), I take Gordon...especially for this team.

The way we play defense funnels offenses towards the inside. Often times, we get killed on the boards because our one true big-man (Zeller, Allen, even Okafor) challenges the shot, and with them out of position, the opposing team crashes and kills us on the board. Now, its not always the 4 that kills us, sometimes the responsibility is on the guards/wing to box out as well, but teams with bigger 4s have more often than not killed us.

As you said, Gordon I think helps us better there than Rondae does. A big bigger, a bit stronger, a bit more of a jumper. Keep in mind that Gordon also has to contend with another rebounder in Vucevic, while still able to grab 8 a game. Our leading rebounders right now are Rondae and DMC, both at 6.5

Offensively, we already know Gordon can space our offense. He's attempting just about as many 3s as Dinwiddie has taken this season (per game) and shot a better percentage. He's shooting better than DMC, Acy, and Caris as well. He'd just a hair under Crabbe, who is probably our #2 3pt shooting option behind Joe. This at age 22 and without a chance to work with our development team yet.

I don't think he's quite 20/10, especially in our team, but it wouldn't surprise me if he's 18/9. It's not a shot to Rondae, who has done a tremendous job of improving (and i'm not sure he can 100% extend his range consistently to three, at least not as a high volume like we need/want in our offense shooting 3-5 a game, because his release from 3 still doesn't look natural. Not saying he can't make it, since we've seen guys with unnatural shots do that in the NBA), I just think for what we want out of our PF both offensively and defensively, Gordon is a better fit.

I understand the bigger/stronger argument. Gordon is 6'9 i get that.

however, i think it still just boils down to one player that hits threes at a good clip, and one who doesn't yet. and its okay if there's a difference in opinion in valuing certain skillsets versus another.

my question is, why is Orlando about to let this guy walk?

because i'd be pretty shocked if the Nets let RHJ walk.

explain that to me.

Because Orlando is a mess?

They have 17M per tied up to Biyombo for the next two years, Vucevic for another year. Fournier is making 17M until 2020. And they have no stars to build around. If they can pawn off Gordon and get more picks? or off load some bad contracts? They'd be better off hitting that reset. They could also be possibly looking at Jonathan Isaac as the eventual PF in their roster.

Besides, it doesn't sound like they are giving him away, moreso gauging what the interest is. Keep in mind, we'll be in the same boat as Orlando next season with Rondae. We've already talked about it several times in different threads here...

Next season, how confident are we in BOTH Russell and Rondae as our building blocks? Are we ready to pay them $20M - 27M a year?

Let's say Rondae improves his 3 game a bit, maybe hits 30% while taking 1.5 a game. But the rest of his game remains the same, are we ready to pull that trigger next season? It wouldn't surprise me if Sean at least listens for offers on him. Imagine if this roster didn't have Dlo or Allen, but still have guys like Crabbe and MOzgov locked up.

Wouldn't you listen to offers for RHJ before facing RFA?

[Prokorov]

I think VC brought up Gordon before, and I was lukewarm then but especially more if it's Din Rondae and a 1st. Not going to trade all that to pay a guy with an admittedly high ceiling but is unproven.

Have to say though, why are our fans thumbing their nose down at Gordon? Hes younger than Rondae, more fit at pF for us, more athletic, and has already shown a better range?

What does Rondae do better? Defend? You can have Gordon develop that, especially since he has physical tools to be a good defensive player.

We constantly hype our own prospects due to what this team can help them, but what about what they can do for a prospect like Aaron Gordon?

If he wasn't due a big contract right away, I'd give up that Toronto pick for him.

He's only 22 years old...younger than Din, Rondae, and Caris. same age as Okafor.

To sit and pretend like this guy is done improving, especially under our staff, is just talking crazy.

I think its easier to develop a three then to turn yourself into an elite defender. as far as "what does rondae do better"

Score.

Gordon takes 4 more shots to score 4 more points per game.
RHJ has a higher PER
RHJ has a higher TS%
RHJ has a higher eFG%
RHJ has a higher FG%

let me phrase it like this.... OFFENSIVELY only... what does gordon do better other then shoot threes?

i believe the anwser to that is: Nothing

????

Gordon is shooting 72% at the rim. A career 68% at the rim while historically playing with awful spacing and in awful systems. That's a lot better than RHJ.

Combine that with the fact that he's not just shooting 3s better. He's taking 5 more 3s a game than RHJ. Almost 20% of them are unassisted / off the dribble. Less than 20% of them are corner 3s.

This is RHJ's first year with a higher TS%. It's higher by a whopping .3% while taking 4 less shots a game.

The Magic have yanked him around positions and roles so much. I'm not saying you give up the farm for Gordon but that stuff does need to be taken into account. RHJ has been in the perfect position the last 1.5 years. Gordon's been in the 2nd worse next to the Kings. So let's relax.

yeah so like i said, othher then shoot threes gordon really does nothing better then RHJ.

[Prokorov]

Scotto is reporting Miami has interest in Carroll.


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well, IDK if I'd want TYler Johnson here anymore. But definitely need to start with an unprotected draft pick. Not sure who else they have I'd want to incorporate on this team.

yeah too much of a log jam at gaurd and already too many 10+ millon contracts for role guys

[Prokorov]

How high of a ceiling do some view on Gordon?

RHJ learned/learning to make his jumpshots, showed great progress in that area compared to where he started.

The 3pt shot will come, he showed when he puts the work, he has grown.

I've seen more in RHJ to believe in him than Gordon. Keep RHJ(unless for Klay or superstar level).

RHJ's ceiling is higher IMO. he can become draymond with some muscle and a 3 point shot.

[Prokorov]

yall dudes love these lateral moves. if we're talking RHJ/Dinwiddie/TOR 1st etc for Klay Thompson that's a game changer. Aaron Gordon isn't.

It's not lateral if you believe Gordon's potential exceeds RHJ's. His size also gives us a better chance to at least make things difficult for legit big men down low.

Gordon doesnt really put up much resistance downlow. hard to say RHJ isnt just better, but significantly better as a post defender. his ability to gaurd all 5 positions is huge today, since its about being able to switch and help and play small.

Also, RHJ is 6'7" 218lbs with a 7'1" wingpsan

gordon is 6'9" 220 lbs with a 7'0" wingspan

its not like we are talking minute bol vs mugsy bogues here.

if gordon was a really good offensive player id concede the move, but he isnt. really the only way i even consider this deal is if you make the RHJ's play style means constant injuries argument

[Prokorov]

The two questions are 1) whether he can do it? 2) how much will it cost to sign him?

If RHJ and Gordon were signed to similar deals, I'd prefer Gordon because I prefer his size and believe in his greater offensive potential.
But if Gordon is seeking to get paid 2x as much as RHJ, I'd rather keep RHJ.

Good breakdown. Both are close, IMO, though I will give Gordon an edge offensively and Rondae edge defensively. If all things equal, contract and compensation wise (including injury, which i think both have ? marks there), I take Gordon...especially for this team.

The way we play defense funnels offenses towards the inside. Often times, we get killed on the boards because our one true big-man (Zeller, Allen, even Okafor) challenges the shot, and with them out of position, the opposing team crashes and kills us on the board. Now, its not always the 4 that kills us, sometimes the responsibility is on the guards/wing to box out as well, but teams with bigger 4s have more often than not killed us.

As you said, Gordon I think helps us better there than Rondae does. A big bigger, a bit stronger, a bit more of a jumper. Keep in mind that Gordon also has to contend with another rebounder in Vucevic, while still able to grab 8 a game. Our leading rebounders right now are Rondae and DMC, both at 6.5

Offensively, we already know Gordon can space our offense. He's attempting just about as many 3s as Dinwiddie has taken this season (per game) and shot a better percentage. He's shooting better than DMC, Acy, and Caris as well. He'd just a hair under Crabbe, who is probably our #2 3pt shooting option behind Joe. This at age 22 and without a chance to work with our development team yet.

I don't think he's quite 20/10, especially in our team, but it wouldn't surprise me if he's 18/9. It's not a shot to Rondae, who has done a tremendous job of improving (and i'm not sure he can 100% extend his range consistently to three, at least not as a high volume like we need/want in our offense shooting 3-5 a game, because his release from 3 still doesn't look natural. Not saying he can't make it, since we've seen guys with unnatural shots do that in the NBA), I just think for what we want out of our PF both offensively and defensively, Gordon is a better fit.

I understand the bigger/stronger argument. Gordon is 6'9 i get that.

however, i think it still just boils down to one player that hits threes at a good clip, and one who doesn't yet. and its okay if there's a difference in opinion in valuing certain skillsets versus another.

my question is, why is Orlando about to let this guy walk?

because i'd be pretty shocked if the Nets let RHJ walk.

explain that to me.

i think its easier to develop a three point shot then it is to develop great defense. and if you give RHJ a 3 point shot, he goes from a coinflip with gordon to being much better then him

[SpeedyG]

yall dudes love these lateral moves. if we're talking RHJ/Dinwiddie/TOR 1st etc for Klay Thompson that's a game changer. Aaron Gordon isn't.

It's not lateral if you believe Gordon's potential exceeds RHJ's. His size also gives us a better chance to at least make things difficult for legit big men down low.

Gordon doesnt really put up much resistance downlow. hard to say RHJ isnt just better, but significantly better as a post defender. his ability to gaurd all 5 positions is huge today, since its about being able to switch and help and play small.

Also, RHJ is 6'7" 218lbs with a 7'1" wingpsan

gordon is 6'9" 220 lbs with a 7'0" wingspan

its not like we are talking minute bol vs mugsy bogues here.

if gordon was a really good offensive player id concede the move, but he isnt. really the only way i even consider this deal is if you make the RHJ's play style means constant injuries argument

220 was Gordon's rookie weight. there is no way he's still 220. Just a side by side comparison of Gordon vs Rondae in matchup and it's clearly. it a 2 lb advantage

[Claud]

Trade DMC and Harris for young players/picks. They are good fits for teams going deep in the playoffs and we are not that.

Finish out season with Din/Dlo/CL/RHJ/Fro. This season was never about W/Ls.

[Paradise]

Joe Harris to Minny for Cole Aldrich & OKC 1st (22nd) ?

[MrDollarBills]

Joe Harris to Minny for Cole Aldrich & OKC 1st (22nd) ?

Nope. Don't want Aldrich.

[NyCeEvO]

Winslow doesn't interest me. He's crap offensively and not enough of a game changer defensively. Defensive wings who can't shoot aren't that hard to come by.

And he's been this way since Day 1.

[MGrand15]

I think its easier to develop a three then to turn yourself into an elite defender. as far as "what does rondae do better"

Score.

Gordon takes 4 more shots to score 4 more points per game.
RHJ has a higher PER
RHJ has a higher TS%
RHJ has a higher eFG%
RHJ has a higher FG%

let me phrase it like this.... OFFENSIVELY only... what does gordon do better other then shoot threes?

i believe the anwser to that is: Nothing

????

Gordon is shooting 72% at the rim. A career 68% at the rim while historically playing with awful spacing and in awful systems. That's a lot better than RHJ.

Combine that with the fact that he's not just shooting 3s better. He's taking 5 more 3s a game than RHJ. Almost 20% of them are unassisted / off the dribble. Less than 20% of them are corner 3s.

This is RHJ's first year with a higher TS%. It's higher by a whopping .3% while taking 4 less shots a game.

The Magic have yanked him around positions and roles so much. I'm not saying you give up the farm for Gordon but that stuff does need to be taken into account. RHJ has been in the perfect position the last 1.5 years. Gordon's been in the 2nd worse next to the Kings. So let's relax.

yeah so like i said, othher then shoot threes gordon really does nothing better then RHJ.

So you ignore the part about Gordon being way better at the rim? And all these efficiency stats completely ignore anything before this year? We're talking a 45 game sample size.

You can just admit you're wrong instead of trolling

[Paradise]

Joe Harris to Minny for Cole Aldrich & OKC 1st (22nd) ?

Nope. Don't want Aldrich.

He’s an expiring contract

[Born_Ready]

If we're talking expiring, would there be any interest in a Jerami Grant and pick trade for Carroll?

I think he has been under utilized in both Philadelphia and OKC. He has upside over DMC for sure.

Just throwing names out there for thread purposes.

[MrDollarBills]

Joe Harris to Minny for Cole Aldrich & OKC 1st (22nd) ?

Nope. Don't want Aldrich.

He’s an expiring contract

oh. okay. expirings are good. we need expiring cash.