Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 6

[oddity]

Spoiler:

I'm responding to your post twice, because I had SOOO much insight I wanted to share that was related to your post, and didn't want to take an entire page up with one post...so I split it up.

I was responding to you, because it was related, not because you were against it or you said the things I was responding with...but that would involve a 3rd post, so sorry.

And BTW...it should have been Simmons, then Middleton (if PG wasn't specifically needed to be addressed), Kemba, then 3 other guys...then Dragic...because I thought All-Star games were for this season, not 'patting' players on the back for a season they previously played, but didn't get picked because they weren't good enough then...but somehow are, now???

At first I thought Middleton, and then when everyone was saying Simmons I examined all the numbers closer and felt Kemba actually probably edged out Simmons, though it was close, and maybe I was biased because I knew Simmons would already play in the Rising Stars game, and I really like Kemba....but of course if you let record of your team influence anything, Simmons and Middleton have that edge, but I don't think it should.

One thing I will say about Dragic is, somehow he ends up on teams that win. We had that crazy feel good season with him, and then I think were above 500 the next season when we traded him and went downhill. Then we've been crap since and Miami has been overachieving relative to expectations since they've had him (except for the first half of last year)....so maybe there are some intangibles there. Though Spo is a great coach as well.

Maybe, but as it hasn't been all sunshine and roses for the Heat since his arrival. As a starter, he went 12-14 upon his arrival in Miami in 2015. Last year they failed to make the Playoffs as a .500 team, so again, not all a fairy tale. He was also with use when we went 25-57, and only after we brought on Bledsoe did we get to 48-34.

No matter, he's in now, but it's obvious he's not even close to being the most deserving, and that's what is frustrating to those like Middleton, Kemba, Simmons, and shoot, like I showed in the comparison a few days back...Dinwiddie, Payton, Dunn, Smart...they all compare favorably in several areas.

But if you want a 'feel good' story for an older guy, why not Collison?? The Pacers are 30-24, and Collison DESTROYS Dragic in every category but Total Pts and Total Rebounds.

http://bkref.com/tiny/QPNiZ

But twice as many Stls, half as many TOVs, a .432 3PT% vs .355%, .608 TS% vs .527%, 18.8 PER vs 16, 5.7 WS vs 2,7, VORP of 1.8 vs .7...and so on and so forth...

I just feel like these pages and pages of fishing for reasons why dragic shouldn't be in the all star game is less about basketball and more out of vindictive hate for a guy who burned your favorite team. Not that I disagree... it just seems really hate fuelled and ugly to me

[BobbieL]

Weeks before his Jan. 22 firing, he told close associates that he wouldn’t mind losing his job because he was already looking at landing one of the two jobs he covets.

"It’s amazing that he keeps getting jobs because he’s just an OK coach," one Western Conference GM told Sporting News. "But he is trying to maneuver to get the Phoenix job, and he’s also very interested in New York."

Kidd thinks the Suns and Knicks can show significant improvement in the near future as they build around rising stars Devin Booker in Phoenix and Kristaps Porzingis in New York. The Mills-Perry regime is expected to be running the Knicks into the future, but Phoenix owner Robert Sarver could make wholesale changes to his basketball operations this coming offseason, starting with firing GM Ryan McDonough, sources say.

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/nba-trade-rumors-latest-news-215301202.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=fb

Obviously Kidd had a significant contribution to Greek Freak, can only imagine what he can do with Booker, Jackson, Bender, Chriss, Warren. Let's do this.

I'm kidding

If Sarver hires Kidd - he is an idiot
Firing McD is one thing but again - you cannot fire him like he let Kerr walk out the door the start of free agency

If Ryan wants to fire him - has to be AFTER Free Agency or right after the season
Please no Jason Kidd/ Not another lousy coach. Triano has proven, coaching matters

Booker got hurt - might be wise to shut him down through the ASB - just give him a few weeks off - "tanking without tanking "

[King4Day]

Absolute NO on getting Kidd. He's proven he's not a coach that will take your team to the next level. While it'd be fun to get a sexy new coaching name, Triano is proving he's helping this team. Let's stick with him and see what happens with who we have and who we get next summer.

[BobbieL]

Absolute NO on getting Kidd. He's proven he's not a coach that will take your team to the next level. While it'd be fun to get a sexy new coaching name, Triano is proving he's helping this team. Let's stick with him and see what happens with who we have and who we get next summer.

If not Triano - another "lifer coach" : Fizdale, Messina with the Spurs, Van Gundy, heck Mike Brown. Enough with former players. Hire guys that have coached lots and lots of games.

Dave King had this trade idea:

Bender and Bucks 2nd rounder for Dinwiddie and Zeller

Is this selling low on Bender? Is the Heat pick outright too much for Dinwiddie?

Also says the Suns are shopping Len - but I think he has to approve any deal. And they already have Okafor. But two big guards in Dinwiddie and Booker might be nice to see moving forward. I like the idea of trading for Dinwiddie.

Read on Twitter

[Djedefre]

If we stick with Triano and fail to pry one of the top college names now that NCAA is at the turning point (the end of one and done), we’re done for good. Speaking frankly, it appears to me that if they botch the job once again it’ll be the end of this franchise.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Absolute NO on getting Kidd. He's proven he's not a coach that will take your team to the next level. While it'd be fun to get a sexy new coaching name, Triano is proving he's helping this team. Let's stick with him and see what happens with who we have and who we get next summer.

If not Triano - another "lifer coach" : Fizdale, Messina with the Spurs, Van Gundy, heck Mike Brown. Enough with former players. Hire guys that have coached lots and lots of games.

Dave King had this trade idea:

Bender and Bucks 2nd rounder for Dinwiddie and Zeller

Is this selling low on Bender? Is the Heat pick outright too much for Dinwiddie?

Also says the Suns are shopping Len - but I think he has to approve any deal. And they already have Okafor. But two big guards in Dinwiddie and Booker might be nice to see moving forward. I like the idea of trading for Dinwiddie.

Read on Twitter

Trading Bender for Dinwiddie is insane. He and Jackson have been the biggest bright spots of late. They're 20. Dave King needs to get a day job.

[suns91fan]

Curious thing about Dinwiddie. Only 7.4% (!!!) of his 2-pt shots are assisted. This has to be some kind of a record (possibly in NBA history).

[Waylay13]

If we stick with Triano and fail to pry one of the top college names now that NCAA is at the turning point (the end of one and done), we’re done for good. Speaking frankly, it appears to me that if they botch the job once again it’ll be the end of this franchise.

With statements like this it is clear that you werent around in the 80's. Drugs, indictments, the lost of our best player (Walter Davis), the change in ownership and the turn around in only a couple years. are we handed capped by not having Jerry C. at the helm any more? Yes but it can be done if the team is willing and frankly the team is making the right moves in building a long term team. Remember not all college coaches make good and even fair NBA coaches. In a lot of cases egos dont mix well. This isnt something that most college coaches even think about. Can you see Bobby Knight ever coaching in the NBA? Nope he wouldn't last a week. Do I think that Triano is the best coach we can hire? I dont know but I do believe he should be on the list of people that we give an interview to. I have seen more value from him this season than I saw from both or our last 2 coaches.

[darealjuice]

Triano has done a much better job than a lot people give him credit for. The idea that we're "done for good" and it'll be "the end of this franchise" if we end up retaining Triano is pretty overdramatic. This season should have been dead in the water from the minute we got no immediate return for Bledsoe and left Triano trotting out Mike James as the starting PG. Instead, we're on pace for a better record than last year despite replacing one of Bledsoe's best seasons with effectively nothing.

Who knows exactly how much can be credited to Triano changing things up, but Booker and TJ are having their best year, JJ has gone from having a -14.1 net rating in 2017 to +19.4 so far in 2018, Bender seems to be starting to break out of his shell and do more than be a shooter, and Marquese was playing good basketball before he started getting banged up. I don't know if he's for sure our guy and we need to be scouring the Earth for the right guy, but I think Triano has done a good job working with the hand he was dealt and wouldn't be upset if he ended up being the head coach going into next season as long as we continue seeing development through the year.

[darealjuice]

Any interest in Willy Hernangomez? Sounds like he’s requesting to leave the Knicks. Had a solid year last year but is stuck behind Kanter in their center rotation, and we all know how much Hornacek likes (not) playing young players. Not sure he’s much better than Len or anything, just thought it was interesting he’s requesting a trade.

[jcsunsfan]

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/nba-trade-rumors-latest-news-215301202.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=fb

Obviously Kidd had a significant contribution to Greek Freak, can only imagine what he can do with Booker, Jackson, Bender, Chriss, Warren. Let's do this.

I'm kidding

If Sarver hires Kidd - he is an idiot
Firing McD is one thing but again - you cannot fire him like he let Kerr walk out the door the start of free agency

If Ryan wants to fire him - has to be AFTER Free Agency or right after the season
Please no Jason Kidd/ Not another lousy coach. Triano has proven, coaching matters

Booker got hurt - might be wise to shut him down through the ASB - just give him a few weeks off - "tanking without tanking "

If McD give Kidd an interview, he should be fired immediately. And I am a McD apologist.

[Saberestar]

What about Willy Hernangomez?

Hernangomez has two years remaining on the four-year rookie contract he signed in 2016: a guaranteed $1.54 million in 2018-19 and a trigger date worth $1.7 million in 2019-20.

I think that Willy and Williams can be our backups, and we can have Ayton, Bamba or a FA as our starting C.

I do not want Chandler or Len next season. Probably Len if he accepts a really small contract.

[darealjuice]

Good article from ESPN on the upcoming financial crunch for NBA teams stemming from bad spending when the cap exploded a few years.

12 teams are currently projected to be in the Luxury Tax, with more to come with the impending RFA signings. There's only so much money to go around for the upcoming free agents, and at some point owners will go against spending more money on teams that clearly aren't winning a championship.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Good article from ESPN on the upcoming financial crunch for NBA teams stemming from bad spending when the cap exploded a few years.

12 teams are currently projected to be in the Luxury Tax, with more to come with the impending RFA signings. There's only so much money to go around for the upcoming free agents, and at some point owners will go against spending more money on teams that clearly aren't winning a championship.

This is why this summer could be a good opportunity for the suns to make a move. Either a trade with a cap strapped team or a bargain FA.

[Djedefre]

Triano has done a much better job than a lot people give him credit for. The idea that we're "done for good" and it'll be "the end of this franchise" if we end up retaining Triano is pretty overdramatic. This season should have been dead in the water from the minute we got no immediate return for Bledsoe and left Triano trotting out Mike James as the starting PG. Instead, we're on pace for a better record than last year despite replacing one of Bledsoe's best seasons with effectively nothing.

Who knows exactly how much can be credited to Triano changing things up, but Booker and TJ are having their best year, JJ has gone from having a -14.1 net rating in 2017 to +19.4 so far in 2018, Bender seems to be starting to break out of his shell and do more than be a shooter, and Marquese was playing good basketball before he started getting banged up. I don't know if he's for sure our guy and we need to be scouring the Earth for the right guy, but I think Triano has done a good job working with the hand he was dealt and wouldn't be upset if he ended up being the head coach going into next season as long as we continue seeing development through the year.

Exactly this kind of approach made us so much harm in recent years - you could hear/read the same when Watson was the hc and again a little earlier when it was Hornacek:

1. Pick up the first name you ran into and give him hc job (who cares about his resume, doesn't matter if he's a total beginner or if he ever showed any promise)
2. Try to save a few $ in the process
3. If you notice something's not right with the team, ignore it and act like nothing's happening
4. When team starts accumulating losses, launch the self-deceiving program - make up all kinds of silly excuses to justify poor coaching, give all the credit for player x/y improvement to current hc and preach patience
5. Start lowering already low standards and expectations
6. When everything starts falling apart and it's too late, finally admit you messed up and repeat the process from step 1 to 6

I'm tired of incompetent coaches in the making that take first steps in the coaching job. I'm willing to wait for players to develop and pick up their game, but god i'm sick of coach prospects. This 'solutions' (like this giving Triano a shot suggestions) are just wasting time. If we really want to get out of this black hole, solid and reliable coach with philosophy is condition of all conditions. We can continue lowering the bar but i'm afraid we're already touching the bottom.

[BobbieL]

Good article from ESPN on the upcoming financial crunch for NBA teams stemming from bad spending when the cap exploded a few years.

12 teams are currently projected to be in the Luxury Tax, with more to come with the impending RFA signings. There's only so much money to go around for the upcoming free agents, and at some point owners will go against spending more money on teams that clearly aren't winning a championship.

I think this above article is the main reason why Monroe wasn't moved for a guy like Hill even if the Sacramento second rounder was attached.

I think it is why a guy like Daniels (Amico or Amick - they are not great I get that mentioned Toronto needing a shooter) - would be a good candidate because he is so cheap. So a team like the Raptors who are already capped out - whats another 3.5m for a guy they can get cheap

If the Suns can move Chandler at the deadline this week - that just gives them more cap space for this summer.

[BobbieL]

From the Stein Line:

Read on Twitter

Mudiay or Smart - who would be better to take a chance on. Or maybe just wait for the draft. Granted, with the way the Suns are playing, Booker hurt - the draft might be Ayton or Bagley and not PG

Dinwiddie, Smart, Mudiay - wait for Bradley- nice to do something this week.

[BobbieL]

Obviously Kidd had a significant contribution to Greek Freak, can only imagine what he can do with Booker, Jackson, Bender, Chriss, Warren. Let's do this.

I'm kidding

If Sarver hires Kidd - he is an idiot
Firing McD is one thing but again - you cannot fire him like he let Kerr walk out the door the start of free agency

If Ryan wants to fire him - has to be AFTER Free Agency or right after the season
Please no Jason Kidd/ Not another lousy coach. Triano has proven, coaching matters

Booker got hurt - might be wise to shut him down through the ASB - just give him a few weeks off - "tanking without tanking "

If McD give Kidd an interview, he should be fired immediately. And I am a McD apologist.

I gave you +1 -can I give you a +10000

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

From the Stein Line:

Read on Twitter

Mudiay or Smart - who would be better to take a chance on. Or maybe just wait for the draft. Granted, with the way the Suns are playing, Booker hurt - the draft might be Ayton or Bagley and not PG

Dinwiddie, Smart, Mudiay - wait for Bradley- nice to do something this week.

Given the salary situation around the NBA, it seems that we should be able to pick up good players at a discount, or simply in exchange for taking on the contract. Is Mudiay worth his current money? My guess is that we could get Mudiay for free. Would we take him? I'm not so sure.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

BTW - that Bledsoe trade is looking better and better. First rounders generally do not appear to be available in trade. Plus, the holy grail for most teams appear to be salary relief. We got both. If Milwaukee hadn't made that deal, would Jordan already be a Buck?