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WHG traded to hornets for O'Bryant and two 2nds

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Re: WHG traded to hornets for O'Bryant and two 2nds 

Post#881 » by Isiahthomass » Wed Feb 7, 2018 8:49 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:I’m an absolute awe at this franchise

I was not under the impression that Willie was a franchise cornerstone in anyway. But what is the possible value of the street? The second rounders have minimal value and if memory serves that is exactly what we gave up to get Lily in the 1st Pl.,

Patrick o’bryant? Not a clue
I’m sure that’s my ignorance but I doubt very much he’s better than Willy
And less he’s Kobe‘s Irish brother

I just cannot see the value in trading at such a low point
You don’t have to play him, you don’t have to trade in either, you don’t have to do anything as a GM

Better just to wait and see what else presents itself

At the very least he could’ve been a throw In for a larger trade


Should have kept Willy , especially after KP went down last night. The reality is that players aren't commanding nearly what they would have been worth 5 years ago in a trade, unless you are Kyrie Irving. Everyone is being stingy right now.
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Re: WHG traded to hornets for O'Bryant and two 2nds 

Post#882 » by Red Vines » Wed Feb 7, 2018 8:49 pm

All-Rookie lottery pick Jahlil Okafor netted Trevor Booker and they had to include Stauskas and a 2nd rounder...
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Re: WHG traded to hornets for O'Bryant and two 2nds 

Post#883 » by duetta » Wed Feb 7, 2018 8:50 pm

Synciere wrote:
duetta wrote:Honestly, we should have kept Carmelo. Acquiring Kanter screwed everything up.


See, this is the elephant in the room. I was wondering when Melo would come up. But bringing in Kanter is the biggest reason why willy didn't get the minutes he wanted.


Exactly.

Don't get me wrong. Kanter has been very good, better than I expected. But neither he nor Willy is a defender. If you're going to lose, why not lose with the younger, cheaper player that you have an extra year of control with - especially when they're both sieves on the defensive end?
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Re: WHG traded to hornets for O'Bryant and two 2nds 

Post#884 » by Jcs2380 » Wed Feb 7, 2018 8:52 pm

Red Vines wrote:Sorry if you think he was worth more you haven't been watching.

He was all rookie last year. He's a young player with a lot of potential. He's definitely worth more than a couple of second round picks. Hornaceck is an idiot for not giving him a chance.
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Re: WHG traded to hornets for O'Bryant and two 2nds 

Post#885 » by Tron Carter » Wed Feb 7, 2018 8:52 pm

duetta wrote:Honestly, we should have kept Carmelo. Acquiring Kanter screwed everything up.


probably
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Re: WHG traded to hornets for O'Bryant and two 2nds 

Post#886 » by Pjax4Prez » Wed Feb 7, 2018 8:54 pm

Was okay to trade Willy, just wish we got a better return. Would have rather found someway to offload KOQ and open up some PT for him to get a more clear look at him.

Wasn't the biggest Willy fan but he played decent the second half of last year. Hard to imagine that we draft anyone with those second round picks that will show more than what Willy showed last year.
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Re: WHG traded to hornets for O'Bryant and two 2nds 

Post#887 » by Red Vines » Wed Feb 7, 2018 8:54 pm

Jcs2380 wrote:
Red Vines wrote:Sorry if you think he was worth more you haven't been watching.

He was all rookie last year. He's a young player with a lot of potential. He's definitely worth more than a couple of second round picks. Hornaceck is an idiot for not giving him a chance.

He had the benefit of playing in an offense from the 1950s which suited his throwback speed perfectly. Welcome to the board, Mr. Hernangomez.
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Re: WHG traded to hornets 

Post#888 » by Synciere » Wed Feb 7, 2018 8:58 pm

E-Balla wrote:
Synciere wrote:
E-Balla wrote:9 minutes a game and only 9 games with 10 or more minutes isn't seeing him play. Everyone looks bad in that little amount of PT. He's still averaging 17/10/3 per 36 this year with a 17 PER. Imagine if we actually played him how he might produce (or don't imagine and just think back to last year where he averaged 12/9/2 after all star break). He could've at least got 10-15 mpg like he did last year when he was banished to the shadow realm but nah Horny hates success and so do Knicks fans.


If 9 minutes a game is not enough to see him play, then HE HAS TO FIGHT AND EARN MORE MINUTES. That's why I only like per 36 stats to a certain extent, because if a player isn't playing 36 minutes, there's usually a good reason for it. That's how guys like David West have higher PERs than KP and other All Stars. The logic 'Imagine if we had actually played him x amount, then he could've gotten x points/rebounds etc, and he would've been worth x more' is an EXTREMELY faulty one. We as fans don't see the players that much but the coaches do. And playing him more could go both ways, in that it could LOWER his value too. You can't just take the best case scenario or the ceiling. You have to take into account his floor too.

First off he averaged 12/9/2 after all star break last year and for the last 25-30 games of the year was the clear 3rd best player on the team at the age of 22. Who else but the Knicks would make a player "earn his minutes" after that? Secondly he was averaging 17/10/3 on 59 TS% per 36 and had a 17 PER. Is that not good production in limited time? How is he supposed to earn minutes if he can't have time to average more than 4 ppg.

Also Jeff also saw Sessions was the best PG on the team and started him. He saw Noah deserved more minutes than Willy last year. How can y'all in once sentence call him incompetent and in the next trust his opinion on a player he's hated since day one? All this BS you posted would make sense if Willy wasn't third in ROY voting and first team all rookie. He is already proven you're just hard headed.

Funny part is the same dudes dogging Willy want Frank to start and get more PT when Willy was a way better rookie than Frank. FOH y'all not slick.


Who else but the Knicks make a player earn minutes after all that? How bout EVERY winning organization! You have to continue to earn your minutes. Guys get moved and traded every year, and there's always someone who wants your spot. Melo forced a trade which brought in Kanter, clearly an upgrade over Willy. O'Quinn outplayed him. So he has to earn his minutes over those guys, yes! Who is Willy that he should be gifted minutes over those guys? You can be good, and someone can still be better!

Hornacek saw Sessions was the best PG, until he saw that he wasn't. Jack outplayed him and earned those minutes. Jack, who was a late pickup with an injuries galore and no history with this coach and a young top ten player drafted at his position, EARNED the starting spot, but Willy who was All Rookie last year, played internationally so should have been in EXCELLENT shape couldn't come in and beat Kyle friggin O'Quinn for minutes?!?! Nah, YOU AINT SLICK NEITHER BRUH!!!!

Michael Carter Williams was Rookie of the Year... Has he earned the starting spot for whatever team he's playing for now?!?! You have to KEEP EARNING YOUR MINUTES, otherwise someone can and WILL take your spot. And for the record, I'm not in any rush to see Frank start. I want him to take the job and beat Jack and anyone else we may or may not bring in. If we bring in Payton, then he has to fight for that spot, and may the best man win... I don't want no players who see competition and starting b*tching about it.
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Re: WHG traded to hornets 

Post#889 » by Jcs2380 » Wed Feb 7, 2018 9:01 pm

j4remi wrote:
E-Balla wrote:9 minutes a game and only 9 games with 10 or more minutes isn't seeing him play. Everyone looks bad in that little amount of PT. He's still averaging 17/10/3 per 36 this year with a 17 PER. Imagine if we actually played him how he might produce (or don't imagine and just think back to last year where he averaged 12/9/2 after all star break). He could've at least got 10-15 mpg like he did last year when he was banished to the shadow realm but nah Horny hates success and so do Knicks fans.


Every time someone drops the "Willy had opportunities and did nothing with them," I grind my teeth.


Hornaceck didn't even give him a chance. Between this awful trade and Porzingis getting hurt, I don't even think I'm going to watch any more Knick games this season. Hornaceck and the whole coaching staff needs to go along with Mills and Perry.
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Re: WHG traded to hornets for O'Bryant and two 2nds 

Post#890 » by Synciere » Wed Feb 7, 2018 9:01 pm

duetta wrote:
Synciere wrote:
duetta wrote:Honestly, we should have kept Carmelo. Acquiring Kanter screwed everything up.


See, this is the elephant in the room. I was wondering when Melo would come up. But bringing in Kanter is the biggest reason why willy didn't get the minutes he wanted.


Exactly.

Don't get me wrong. Kanter has been very good, better than I expected. But neither he nor Willy is a defender. If you're going to lose, why not lose with the younger, cheaper player that you have an extra year of control with - especially when they're both sieves on the defensive end?


Because players and organizations want to win, and you can't develop a culture of players being outperformed in practice and training camp sitting behind youngsters just because. The youngsters have to take the job. Otherwise, trade the veteran. If we wanted Willy to play that bad, then we would've had to trade Kanter and/or Kyle.
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Re: WHG traded to hornets 

Post#891 » by Knicks Byke » Wed Feb 7, 2018 9:04 pm

j4remi wrote:
E-Balla wrote:9 minutes a game and only 9 games with 10 or more minutes isn't seeing him play. Everyone looks bad in that little amount of PT. He's still averaging 17/10/3 per 36 this year with a 17 PER. Imagine if we actually played him how he might produce (or don't imagine and just think back to last year where he averaged 12/9/2 after all star break). He could've at least got 10-15 mpg like he did last year when he was banished to the shadow realm but nah Horny hates success and so do Knicks fans.


Every time someone drops the "Willy had opportunities and did nothing with them," I grind my teeth.


dont they practice?
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Re: WHG traded to hornets for O'Bryant and two 2nds 

Post#892 » by duetta » Wed Feb 7, 2018 9:04 pm

Synciere wrote:Otherwise, trade the veteran. If we wanted Willy to play that bad, then we would've had to trade Kanter and/or Kyle.


I've been calling for a trade of Kyle now for months. He's going to opt out and get more money - and he's earned it. But we need to preserve our long-term cap room for a potential big impact guy, not another musician playing "Nearer my God to thee" on the deck of the NY Titanic.
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Re: WHG traded to hornets for O'Bryant and two 2nds 

Post#893 » by Riot Randolph » Wed Feb 7, 2018 9:06 pm

duetta wrote:
Synciere wrote:
duetta wrote:Honestly, we should have kept Carmelo. Acquiring Kanter screwed everything up.


See, this is the elephant in the room. I was wondering when Melo would come up. But bringing in Kanter is the biggest reason why willy didn't get the minutes he wanted.


Exactly.

Don't get me wrong. Kanter has been very good, better than I expected. But neither he nor Willy is a defender. If you're going to lose, why not lose with the younger, cheaper player that you have an extra year of control with - especially when they're both sieves on the defensive end?

wait im pretty sure i remember you ripping into PJax when the unsubstantiated rumors of his willingness to cut melo....
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Re: WHG traded to hornets for O'Bryant and two 2nds 

Post#894 » by duetta » Wed Feb 7, 2018 9:15 pm

knicks85 wrote: wait im pretty sure i remember you ripping into PJax when the unsubstantiated rumors of his willingness to cut melo....


Correct. I didn't want to cut him. Just let him expire (or better yet, opt out).

And I don't want to cut Noah either. I want to try and get something out of him until I can afford to stretch him when a suitable acquisition becomes available.

Mills wanted a fresh start, but the season is ending up in the same nasty toilet as every other recent Knick season.
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Re: WHG traded to hornets 

Post#895 » by E-Balla » Wed Feb 7, 2018 9:15 pm

Synciere wrote:
Who else but the Knicks make a player earn minutes after all that? How bout EVERY winning organization!

Remember when Dejuan Blair and Gary Neal didn't get minutes in year 2 because they didn't earn them... No you don't because Gary Neal was still playing 20 mpg in year 2 even as we all started to realize he wasn't good and Dejuan Blair actually got moved into the starting lineup to start his 2nd year based entirely on what he did when he started 15 games midseason during his rookie year. Winning organizations play their young good players. Y'all not in practice so don't tell me about who was or wasn't better than Willy because I refused to believe any C we've had on the roster the last few years has outplayed KOQ and he hasn't been our starter at all.

You have to continue to earn your minutes. Guys get moved and traded every year, and there's always someone who wants your spot. Melo forced a trade which brought in Kanter, clearly an upgrade over Willy. O'Quinn outplayed him. So he has to earn his minutes over those guys, yes! Who is Willy that he should be gifted minutes over those guys? You can be good, and someone can still be better!

Hornacek saw Sessions was the best PG, until he saw that he wasn't. Jack outplayed him and earned those minutes. Jack, who was a late pickup with an injuries galore and no history with this coach and a young top ten player drafted at his position, EARNED the starting spot, but Willy who was All Rookie last year, played internationally so should have been in EXCELLENT shape couldn't come in and beat Kyle friggin O'Quinn for minutes?!?! Nah, YOU AINT SLICK NEITHER BRUH!!!!

Michael Carter Williams was Rookie of the Year... Has he earned the starting spot for whatever team he's playing for now?!?! You have to KEEP EARNING YOUR MINUTES, otherwise someone can and WILL take your spot. And for the record, I'm not in any rush to see Frank start. I want him to take the job and beat Jack and anyone else we may or may not bring in. If we bring in Payton, then he has to fight for that spot, and may the best man win... I don't want no players who see competition and starting b*tching about it.

You're talking about dudes earning minutes in practice. You earn them on the floor. **** practice I play to win and Willy earned those minutes on the floor. IDGAF if Kanter or KOQ were better in practice if I don't want them on the team long term. Every team but NY understands that which is why no rookie who made All Rookie first team ever averaged under 10 mpg and played under 500 minutes (unless they were hurt) in year two. Willy's out here getting that black QB treatment.
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Re: WHG traded to hornets for O'Bryant and two 2nds 

Post#896 » by Spandau » Wed Feb 7, 2018 9:16 pm

What an awful ~16 hours.

You acquire second rounders to find talent like WHG, to either use or deal at the appropriate time.

So we turned one serviceable player, probably not much of an "asset" right now, into question marks.

Really a bad move.
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Re: WHG traded to hornets for O'Bryant and two 2nds 

Post#897 » by Marty McFly » Wed Feb 7, 2018 9:17 pm

Tron Carter wrote:
duetta wrote:Honestly, we should have kept Carmelo. Acquiring Kanter screwed everything up.


probably


the point to trading melo was to tank/rebuild. and they didn't do that. :lol:
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Re: WHG traded to hornets for O'Bryant and two 2nds 

Post#898 » by Besart19 » Wed Feb 7, 2018 9:21 pm

Willy makes only 1.5M for His sake... only the Knicks do these dumb things!!

Keeping Noah and shopping Billy G
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Re: WHG traded to hornets for O'Bryant and two 2nds 

Post#899 » by SoCalKnickFan » Wed Feb 7, 2018 9:21 pm

What if Willy flat out didn't want to be here? His agent made a formal trade request. You just keep him because, Knicks? You keep calling the girl that broke up with you? Or you move on. Knicks gave him his request and are moving on.
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Re: WHG traded to hornets for O'Bryant and two 2nds 

Post#900 » by knickstape4ever » Wed Feb 7, 2018 9:25 pm

if they dont trade OQuinn, it'll be even worse than trading Willy for 2 future 2nds. KOQ is 99.9% gone after the year, he's played well and will the knicks will be either be 1) priced out or 2) have no desire to re-sign him at whatever his asking price because at best he'll always be a backup, especially considering KP is bound to play more C after this injury
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