WHG traded to hornets for O'Bryant and two 2nds

[Synciere]

I'm getting tired of saying this to you. Let's say that he was outplayed in practice. Still the most prudent course for the team would be to play him enough to increase his trade value. Not to let him rot on the bench and ruin his trade value.

First of all, who is you?! Imagine how much I don't care you're getting tired.

And I've addressed that point several times already. If he's not good enough to beat Kyle O'Quinn for minutes, there's absolutely no guarantee he's good enough to increase his trade value. Based on the reasons for his benching and his position, its more likely he would've DECREASED his trade value.

“The real problem wasn’t trading him — it was failing to play him in a rebuilding year.”

Chris Herring

"The real problem wasn't failing to play him in a rebuilding year - it was Hernangomez failing to beat out his competition, crack the rotation, and build on his successful rookie campaign."

Synciere

[FKF]

I'm getting tired of saying this to you. Let's say that he was outplayed in practice. Still the most prudent course for the team would be to play him enough to increase his trade value. Not to let him rot on the bench and ruin his trade value.

First of all, who is you?! Imagine how much I don't care you're getting tired.

And I've addressed that point several times already. If he's not good enough to beat Kyle O'Quinn for minutes, there's absolutely no guarantee he's good enough to increase his trade value. Based on the reasons for his benching and his position, its more likely he would've DECREASED his trade value.

“The real problem wasn’t trading him — it was failing to play him in a rebuilding year.”

Chris Herring

And that was after he was NBA all rookie first team. We didn’t play a top 5 rookie of the last draft class and traded him for two 2nd round picks. Who does that ?

The Knicks just can’t stop **** up their assets. And people complained about Phil

[NBA Fan 1234]

First of all, who is you?! Imagine how much I don't care you're getting tired.

And I've addressed that point several times already. If he's not good enough to beat Kyle O'Quinn for minutes, there's absolutely no guarantee he's good enough to increase his trade value. Based on the reasons for his benching and his position, its more likely he would've DECREASED his trade value.

He was not competing with KOQ for time, it was Enes. KOQ is the only big we have who can play with any big we have on this team. Willy, as much as I like him, had no business whatsoever playing with Enes and because we were only running a 3 man rotation at the 4/5 (with true bigs), Willy got the short end of the stick. Willy and Enes had the same role on this team. IMO, the team made a mistake in giving the minutes to Enes, but it is what it is.

I used O'Quinn to be nice, but I do agree with your premise that Willy's main competition was probably Enes. Where I disagree with everyone is this notion that we shouldn't have been playing Enes, who quite frankly had been BALLING at times, for Willy, who...... hadn't. Where's the accountability?

That's fair. I don't think we should have been playing Enes simply because I don't view him as part of the core and I wanted a true rebuilding / developmental year (focusing on the young guys). If we were truly trying to win and we weren't winning with Enes, why not try Willy? The offense is comparable (physical v. finesse, but same game), rebounding is the same, and Willy is the better passer and IMO better defender. We were losing with Enes without seeing what we had in Willy after him showing he deserved minutes last year. That goes with accountability too - Enes, no defense but gets stats, gets minutes. Where's the accountability on defense?

[duetta]

Luckily for our tank, our remaining group is so underpowered, nothing Perry or Hornacek can do will make much of a difference. We're going to be awful the rest of way and land a fairly high pick.

[aq_ua]

Knicks fans: “We demand you turn water into wine!!”

Knicks: “We can only turn water into other forms of water...”

Knicks fans: “We find you inadequate!! You suck!!”

[FKF]

First of all, who is you?! Imagine how much I don't care you're getting tired.

And I've addressed that point several times already. If he's not good enough to beat Kyle O'Quinn for minutes, there's absolutely no guarantee he's good enough to increase his trade value. Based on the reasons for his benching and his position, its more likely he would've DECREASED his trade value.

“The real problem wasn’t trading him — it was failing to play him in a rebuilding year.”

Chris Herring

"The real problem wasn't failing to play him in a rebuilding year - it was Hernangomez failing to beat out his competition, crack the rotation, and build on his successful rookie campaign."

Synciere

Yeah, so he outplayed O’Quinn in his rookie season, but couldn’t outplay O’Quinn in his sophomore year ?
BS.

[Sark]

Luckily for our tank, our remaining group is so underpowered, nothing Perry or Hornacek can do will make much of a difference. We're going to be awful the rest of way and land a fairly high pick.

Oh they can definitely fck it up.

[FKF]

Luckily for our tank, our remaining group is so underpowered, nothing Perry or Hornacek can do will make much of a difference. We're going to be awful the rest of way and land a fairly high pick.

Oh they can definitely fck it up.

[Meat]

First of all, who is you?! Imagine how much I don't care you're getting tired.

And I've addressed that point several times already. If he's not good enough to beat Kyle O'Quinn for minutes, there's absolutely no guarantee he's good enough to increase his trade value. Based on the reasons for his benching and his position, its more likely he would've DECREASED his trade value.

“The real problem wasn’t trading him — it was failing to play him in a rebuilding year.”

Chris Herring

"The real problem wasn't failing to play him in a rebuilding year - it was Hernangomez failing to beat out his competition, crack the rotation, and build on his successful rookie campaign."

Synciere

It’s silly to expect a softmore to beat out a credible veteran double double machine like kanter

[K_ick_God]

You know, it is a very reasonable thing now to worry that we're going to give Kanter a huge deal.

The idea of him opting out and us signing him long term just flashed across my mind and really put me in a mood.

The signs seem to point to that. They're not just trading bigs because the big man is dead or whatever. Nope. Hornacek on a long-term extension and Horny loves Kanter.

It's all coming together. This could be the worst era yet, which says a lot, a very lot.

[Synciere]

He was not competing with KOQ for time, it was Enes. KOQ is the only big we have who can play with any big we have on this team. Willy, as much as I like him, had no business whatsoever playing with Enes and because we were only running a 3 man rotation at the 4/5 (with true bigs), Willy got the short end of the stick. Willy and Enes had the same role on this team. IMO, the team made a mistake in giving the minutes to Enes, but it is what it is.

I used O'Quinn to be nice, but I do agree with your premise that Willy's main competition was probably Enes. Where I disagree with everyone is this notion that we shouldn't have been playing Enes, who quite frankly had been BALLING at times, for Willy, who...... hadn't. Where's the accountability?

That's fair. I don't think we should have been playing Enes simply because I don't view him as part of the core and I wanted a true rebuilding / developmental year (focusing on the young guys). If we were truly trying to win and we weren't winning with Enes, why not try Willy? The offense is comparable (physical v. finesse, but same game), rebounding is the same, and Willy is the better passer and IMO better defender. We were losing with Enes without seeing what we had in Willy after him showing he deserved minutes last year. That goes with accountability too - Enes, no defense but gets stats, gets minutes. Where's the accountability on defense?

I wholeheartedly disagree with Willy being on par with Enes offensively and rebounding. Passing, yes. I don't consider him better defensively, and neither does the organization. They came out and said so at the beginning of the year and never wavered from that stance. Defense is the biggest reason he's been on the bench all year.

[K_ick_God]

Knicks should use "all the picks," in Berman's words, to dump Hardaway. Hardaway plus 17 second round picks should get it done.

[Synciere]

“The real problem wasn’t trading him — it was failing to play him in a rebuilding year.”

Chris Herring

"The real problem wasn't failing to play him in a rebuilding year - it was Hernangomez failing to beat out his competition, crack the rotation, and build on his successful rookie campaign."

Synciere

Yeah, so he outplayed O’Quinn in his rookie season, but couldn’t outplay O’Quinn in his sophomore year ?
BS.

Yes. Players get better and players get worse. It happens every year. I'm not even sure how or why that has to be disputed. Some just stay the same. For some it's an issue of system, and we did get rid of the triangle this year.

[MP4LIFE]

Knicks should use "all the picks," in Berman's words, to dump Hardaway. Hardaway plus 17 second round picks should get it done.

You would need to dump Mills first.

Hardaway is Mills' boy.

[NBA Fan 1234]

I used O'Quinn to be nice, but I do agree with your premise that Willy's main competition was probably Enes. Where I disagree with everyone is this notion that we shouldn't have been playing Enes, who quite frankly had been BALLING at times, for Willy, who...... hadn't. Where's the accountability?

That's fair. I don't think we should have been playing Enes simply because I don't view him as part of the core and I wanted a true rebuilding / developmental year (focusing on the young guys). If we were truly trying to win and we weren't winning with Enes, why not try Willy? The offense is comparable (physical v. finesse, but same game), rebounding is the same, and Willy is the better passer and IMO better defender. We were losing with Enes without seeing what we had in Willy after him showing he deserved minutes last year. That goes with accountability too - Enes, no defense but gets stats, gets minutes. Where's the accountability on defense?

I wholeheartedly disagree with Willy being on par with Enes offensively and rebounding. Passing, yes. I don't consider him better defensively, and neither does the organization. They came out and said so at the beginning of the year and never wavered from that stance. Defense is the biggest reason he's been on the bench all year.

Enes is slightly more efficient, but they're the same type of player with the same skills. Both flash a mid range once in a while, but they're primarily paint bigs. Enes is a physical guy, Willy being finesse. Also, the idea that they are not comparable rebounders is absolutely false. Check the TRB% last year for Willy vs Enes' career.

As for defense, I still disagree. Enes is the worst big defender in the NBA. Even with Willy's limitations, he's at least light on his feet and showed some flashes last year. Enes never has shown more than "effort," which means nothing if it doesn't produce meaningful results. I personally think the Knicks were afraid of benching someone being paid 18 million in favor of someone getting 1.5.

[Synciere]

“The real problem wasn’t trading him — it was failing to play him in a rebuilding year.”

Chris Herring

"The real problem wasn't failing to play him in a rebuilding year - it was Hernangomez failing to beat out his competition, crack the rotation, and build on his successful rookie campaign."

Synciere

It’s silly to expect a softmore to beat out a credible veteran double double machine like kanter

Then it's silly to expect him to play!

Now if the Knicks declared this a rebuilding year, then you trade Kanter to free up time for the youngin, but that's not the argument most are making here. And even if they believe we SHOLD have been tanking, we all saw the way Kanter was playing earlier. Stop it y'all....

[TruthBeTold]

I think Knicks management plans to find the next Nikola Jokic with one of the second round picks they got from this trade. WHG, is still learning to play defense. He had a nice block in the Knicks last game. WHG will be a solid backup center if his defense keep improving; and he could be a starter if both his defense and shooting improve. The man is hungry for more NBA experience to help him develop. I wish WHG the best of luck with his new team and I hope he gets as much playtime as possible.

[K_ick_God]

Knicks should use "all the picks," in Berman's words, to dump Hardaway. Hardaway plus 17 second round picks should get it done.

You would need to dump Mills first.

Hardaway is Mills' boy.

Okay, twist my arm -- twenty-four 2nd round picks to take Mills and Hardaway. Also if they have room on their players couch, can Noah sit there too? He won't bother anybody.

[Synciere]

That's fair. I don't think we should have been playing Enes simply because I don't view him as part of the core and I wanted a true rebuilding / developmental year (focusing on the young guys). If we were truly trying to win and we weren't winning with Enes, why not try Willy? The offense is comparable (physical v. finesse, but same game), rebounding is the same, and Willy is the better passer and IMO better defender. We were losing with Enes without seeing what we had in Willy after him showing he deserved minutes last year. That goes with accountability too - Enes, no defense but gets stats, gets minutes. Where's the accountability on defense?

I wholeheartedly disagree with Willy being on par with Enes offensively and rebounding. Passing, yes. I don't consider him better defensively, and neither does the organization. They came out and said so at the beginning of the year and never wavered from that stance. Defense is the biggest reason he's been on the bench all year.

Enes is slightly more efficient, but they're the same type of player with the same skills. Both flash a mid range once in a while, but they're primarily paint bigs. Enes is a physical guy, Willy being finesse. Also, the idea that they are not comparable rebounders is absolutely false. Check the TRB% last year for Willy vs Enes' career.

As for defense, I still disagree. Enes is the worst big defender in the NBA. Even with Willy's limitations, he's at least light on his feet and showed some flashes last year. Enes never has shown more than "effort," which means nothing if it doesn't produce meaningful results. I personally think the Knicks were afraid of benching someone being paid 18 million in favor of someone getting 1.5.

Historically Enes was THE single worst defensive big in history according to many statisticians. That's why I was so against the trade when it happened. But the eye test shows that he's been better. Not good, but better. Once you incorporate his top 5 rebounding potential and ability to finish around the hoop, which is also better than Willy's, it's a pretty clear choice IF you're trying to win. I guess we just have to agree to disagree there.

The Knicks just sent Noah home. The 18 million had nothing to do with it.

[Fat Kat]

“The real problem wasn’t trading him — it was failing to play him in a rebuilding year.”

Chris Herring

"The real problem wasn't failing to play him in a rebuilding year - it was Hernangomez failing to beat out his competition, crack the rotation, and build on his successful rookie campaign."

Synciere

It’s silly to expect a softmore to beat out a credible veteran double double machine like kanter

Don't know if the use of softmore was purposely, but it was brilliantly appropriate.