Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 6

[kennydorglas]

maybe we'll take a chance on tyus jones?
great ts%, fantastic ast/to, can generate a lot of steals

[NavLDO]

This is probably so left of field that it's almost OT but what's the feeling about John Wall and the Wiz situation? His team mates feel they are better without him, they are leading the league in assist rate since he's gone down with surgery and he's are actually winning. He's always been one of my favourite PG's even bfore he was drafted and always dreamed of him playing for the Suns.

Maybe not at this point but perhaps in the offseason but would the Wiz even entertain a trade?
What would it cost?
Is he over paid?
Do you even want him?

I haven't followed closely enough. I always kind of liked him, but he does make $207 million (including this year) through 2023, so I think I'd rather find a cheaper way to go for now...I do imagine if they want to move on from him though they may not get a great package back (like with Blake) considering how everyone has bad contracts and need to get rid of them and want to hang onto picks, etc.

If we got a big in the draft and didn't find a good PG later or in FA though and they felt they were just as good or better without him and just wanted out of the big deal, next year we could send them two expirings in Dudley and Chandler plus one that expired the following year in Knight to match contracts, along with a first or two. I don't think they'd need a wing with Beal, Oubre and Porter. They might want a PF though.

This would only be if we felt this was the best use of our cap space and if we had already signed the extension so didn't have much cap space in 19 and the only way to get a star was to do something like this.

I still hope to find our star in the draft and that the ones we have drafted the last two years become really good players by the time they are Warren's age when he turned it up a notch...or maybe sooner.

I think JJ absolutely will. I think Bender and Chriss both have a chance, but not if they both remain on this team, and both stay at PF...meaning, that one of them doesn't get the starting gig, while the other continues to prosper as PF for us moving forward.

It would be great if both Bender and Chiss really turned the corner over the off-season; maybe we get a rookie PG, and they get another SL in (Can they still play?? Not sure of the rules) and show some growth.

It would be really awesome if Chriss could be plugged in at Center, Bender played Stretch 4, JJ played 3, Booker, his 2, and Doncic or Young (and I'd argue, Draft Shamet with the first available 2nd Rd pick we have) at the 1, so we always have shooters, even when Warren comes in (hopefully, he is ok with my biggest fear of being pi$$ed about being pushed to a 6th man role), and still plays 28-30 minutes a night, that's ok, because we don't lose having shooting on the floor, because Chriss and Bender can hit the 3, and have to be respected, and JJ is coming around, and no reason to think he won't be at least a 35-37% 3PT shooter. Chriss will be too...I'm not worried in the least about that; it's his maturity.

We'd just have to make sure if Warren and Sauce are on the floor at the same time, that whoever our backup SG is, is a real threat (Reed, if he's the guy, should be more than capable as his college stats proved as an 83% FT shooter as a Senior and 40% from 3). So something like:

Shamet / Reed / Warren / Bender / Sauce...or...Young / Reed / JJ / Warren / Sauce

Anyway, sounds good on paper...we'll see...

[matt131]

Elfrid Payton could probably be had for a couple of seconds as well.

If we trade for Payton, I am personally coming to Phoenix with hedge clippers and chopping off that stupid hair of his. I can't believe he can actually play with it like that.

[thamadkant]

Daniels not hitting shots is one thing but he still draws out defenders. That's the power of sharp shooters. Its how warriors and rockets are so hard to beat because they have defenders scrambling around to get to shooters... Which allows players like Capela to finish lobs openly and allows Harden and Paul one on one plays with slower players.



Mudiay is fine but suns need a 3pt shooter at PG because of Warren and Jackson.


Why didnt the Suns ask around for Lou Williams.. He's only getting paid a couple of million more than Josh Jackson... If suns are adamant in cheap contracts.

[thamadkant]

I expect Suns to extend Josh Gray for the remainder of the season... That's the Suns move that will be announced tomorrow lol

[matt131]

Daniels not hitting shots is one thing but he still draws out defenders. That's the power of sharp shooters. Its how warriors and rockets are so hard to beat because they have defenders scrambling around to get to shooters... Which allows players like Capela to finish lobs openly and allows Harden and Paul one on one plays with slower players.



Mudiay is fine but suns need a 3pt shooter at PG because of Warren and Jackson.


Why didnt the Suns ask around for Lou Williams.. He's only getting paid a couple of million more than Josh Jackson... If suns are adamant in cheap contracts.

I assume we did. But the deal that Lou was just signed to is probably more valuable to the Clippers than anything we would have been willing to trade back for him.

[BobbieL]

Gambo has said a few minutes ago that he expects one trade tomorrow. We will probably trade one or more second round picks for a PG.

He said that there are too many games left and he expects that move tomorrow.

I would be surprised if it wasnt Mudiay...

Mudiay or Payton

I prefer Mudiay - signed for one more year. Roll the dice with the Grizz and Bucks picks or the Grizz/Raptors picks

Why not

[kennydorglas]

Daniels not hitting shots is one thing but he still draws out defenders. That's the power of sharp shooters. Its how warriors and rockets are so hard to beat because they have defenders scrambling around to get to shooters... Which allows players like Capela to finish lobs openly and allows Harden and Paul one on one plays with slower players.



Mudiay is fine but suns need a 3pt shooter at PG because of Warren and Jackson.


Why didnt the Suns ask around for Lou Williams.. He's only getting paid a couple of million more than Josh Jackson... If suns are adamant in cheap contracts.

Daniels is fine but I'd love to see Reed taking over his minutes
he looks like gerald green when he tried to defend

[BobbieL]

Daniels not hitting shots is one thing but he still draws out defenders. That's the power of sharp shooters. Its how warriors and rockets are so hard to beat because they have defenders scrambling around to get to shooters... Which allows players like Capela to finish lobs openly and allows Harden and Paul one on one plays with slower players.



Mudiay is fine but suns need a 3pt shooter at PG because of Warren and Jackson.


Why didnt the Suns ask around for Lou Williams.. He's only getting paid a couple of million more than Josh Jackson... If suns are adamant in cheap contracts.

Daniels is fine but I'd love to see Reed taking over his minutes
he looks like gerald green when he tried to defend

I think I would try to trade Daniels - pick up his cap space for this summer. Especially if they trade for Mudiay - Daniels goes to a team, out goes 3+m; in comes Mudiay, 3+ m

[thamadkant]

So less shooting?? Suns already lack shooting.

Daniels hits 2.5 three pointers a game. . mudiay will not fix that

[bwgood77]

This is probably so left of field that it's almost OT but what's the feeling about John Wall and the Wiz situation? His team mates feel they are better without him, they are leading the league in assist rate since he's gone down with surgery and he's are actually winning. He's always been one of my favourite PG's even bfore he was drafted and always dreamed of him playing for the Suns.

Maybe not at this point but perhaps in the offseason but would the Wiz even entertain a trade?
What would it cost?
Is he over paid?
Do you even want him?

I haven't followed closely enough. I always kind of liked him, but he does make $207 million (including this year) through 2023, so I think I'd rather find a cheaper way to go for now...I do imagine if they want to move on from him though they may not get a great package back (like with Blake) considering how everyone has bad contracts and need to get rid of them and want to hang onto picks, etc.

If we got a big in the draft and didn't find a good PG later or in FA though and they felt they were just as good or better without him and just wanted out of the big deal, next year we could send them two expirings in Dudley and Chandler plus one that expired the following year in Knight to match contracts, along with a first or two. I don't think they'd need a wing with Beal, Oubre and Porter. They might want a PF though.

This would only be if we felt this was the best use of our cap space and if we had already signed the extension so didn't have much cap space in 19 and the only way to get a star was to do something like this.

I still hope to find our star in the draft and that the ones we have drafted the last two years become really good players by the time they are Warren's age when he turned it up a notch...or maybe sooner.

I think JJ absolutely will. I think Bender and Chriss both have a chance, but not if they both remain on this team, and both stay at PF...meaning, that one of them doesn't get the starting gig, while the other continues to prosper as PF for us moving forward.

It would be great if both Bender and Chiss really turned the corner over the off-season; maybe we get a rookie PG, and they get another SL in (Can they still play?? Not sure of the rules) and show some growth.

It would be really awesome if Chriss could be plugged in at Center, Bender played Stretch 4, JJ played 3, Booker, his 2, and Doncic or Young (and I'd argue, Draft Shamet with the first available 2nd Rd pick we have) at the 1, so we always have shooters, even when Warren comes in (hopefully, he is ok with my biggest fear of being pi$$ed about being pushed to a 6th man role), and still plays 28-30 minutes a night, that's ok, because we don't lose having shooting on the floor, because Chriss and Bender can hit the 3, and have to be respected, and JJ is coming around, and no reason to think he won't be at least a 35-37% 3PT shooter. Chriss will be too...I'm not worried in the least about that; it's his maturity.

We'd just have to make sure if Warren and Sauce are on the floor at the same time, that whoever our backup SG is, is a real threat (Reed, if he's the guy, should be more than capable as his college stats proved as an 83% FT shooter as a Senior and 40% from 3). So something like:

Shamet / Reed / Warren / Bender / Sauce...or...Young / Reed / JJ / Warren / Sauce

Anyway, sounds good on paper...we'll see...

Well, JJ and Warren playing the same position is another problem. I know they are not now because we don't have a real PG, or with Booker out, but McD said the Booker pg thing is not a long term thing and their goal is to get one.

They have been playing Chriss and Bender together some. You might take some time from the boards to watch a game tonight. Your man Len is starting which also means that Bender will likely slide to C when Len sits and him and Chriss will play together. It happened a bit last game.

I still don't know why you think two guys who play the same position cannot develop at the same time when you need to go at least 8 deep....even with 8 deep....that would avg 30 mpg each..for all 8...but avg 27 mpg for 9, 24 for 10, etc. They could easily each get close to 30 if they play together a bit in the front court. Especially when they start to fill out..

[lilfishi22]

I haven't followed closely enough. I always kind of liked him, but he does make $207 million (including this year) through 2023, so I think I'd rather find a cheaper way to go for now...I do imagine if they want to move on from him though they may not get a great package back (like with Blake) considering how everyone has bad contracts and need to get rid of them and want to hang onto picks, etc.

If we got a big in the draft and didn't find a good PG later or in FA though and they felt they were just as good or better without him and just wanted out of the big deal, next year we could send them two expirings in Dudley and Chandler plus one that expired the following year in Knight to match contracts, along with a first or two. I don't think they'd need a wing with Beal, Oubre and Porter. They might want a PF though.

This would only be if we felt this was the best use of our cap space and if we had already signed the extension so didn't have much cap space in 19 and the only way to get a star was to do something like this.

I still hope to find our star in the draft and that the ones we have drafted the last two years become really good players by the time they are Warren's age when he turned it up a notch...or maybe sooner.

I think JJ absolutely will. I think Bender and Chriss both have a chance, but not if they both remain on this team, and both stay at PF...meaning, that one of them doesn't get the starting gig, while the other continues to prosper as PF for us moving forward.

It would be great if both Bender and Chiss really turned the corner over the off-season; maybe we get a rookie PG, and they get another SL in (Can they still play?? Not sure of the rules) and show some growth.

It would be really awesome if Chriss could be plugged in at Center, Bender played Stretch 4, JJ played 3, Booker, his 2, and Doncic or Young (and I'd argue, Draft Shamet with the first available 2nd Rd pick we have) at the 1, so we always have shooters, even when Warren comes in (hopefully, he is ok with my biggest fear of being pi$$ed about being pushed to a 6th man role), and still plays 28-30 minutes a night, that's ok, because we don't lose having shooting on the floor, because Chriss and Bender can hit the 3, and have to be respected, and JJ is coming around, and no reason to think he won't be at least a 35-37% 3PT shooter. Chriss will be too...I'm not worried in the least about that; it's his maturity.

We'd just have to make sure if Warren and Sauce are on the floor at the same time, that whoever our backup SG is, is a real threat (Reed, if he's the guy, should be more than capable as his college stats proved as an 83% FT shooter as a Senior and 40% from 3). So something like:

Shamet / Reed / Warren / Bender / Sauce...or...Young / Reed / JJ / Warren / Sauce

Anyway, sounds good on paper...we'll see...

Well, JJ and Warren playing the same position is another problem. I know they are not now because we don't have a real PG, or with Booker out, but McD said the Booker pg thing is not a long term thing and their goal is to get one.

They have been playing Chriss and Bender together some. You might take some time from the boards to watch a game tonight. Your man Len is starting which also means that Bender will likely slide to C when Len sits and him and Chriss will play together. It happened a bit last game.

I still don't know why you think two guys who play the same position cannot develop at the same time when you need to go at least 8 deep....even with 8 deep....that would avg 30 mpg each..for all 8...but avg 27 mpg for 9, 24 for 10, etc. They could easily each get close to 30 if they play together a bit in the front court. Especially when they start to fill out..

Because we have issues developing even one. Add another super raw prospect playing in that same position and we're not doing them or ourselves any favors. I've shown before that there's only been a handful of games where Bender/Chriss have played well in the same game. How many teams have had a good track record, let alone a track record of successfully developing two raw players in the same position?

[dremill24]

Guys don’t need 48 min/game in order to improve. Both Chriss and Bender have received plenty of PT and simply shown that they were projects (which everyone knew). The other thing about projects is sometimes (by that I mean ‘most times’) they don’t live up to lofty expectations. They’ve still got time to fulfill a high amount of potential, but the reason that Chriss and Bender aren’t All Stars already is NOT that the other guy is on the roster.

[hollywood6964]

Guys don’t need 48 min/game in order to improve. Both Chriss and Bender have received plenty of PT and simply shown that they were projects (which everyone knew). The other thing about projects is sometimes (by that I mean ‘most times’) they don’t live up to lofty expectations. They’ve still got time to fulfill a high amount of potential, but the reason that Chriss and Bender aren’t All Stars already is NOT that the other guy is on the roster.

A lot of people don't understand that concept, and just think all young raw players will develop, like a graph chart trending upward.

[Kerrsed]

The issue i have with people complaining that guys like Payton and Mudiay (And to an extent Smart) will do nothing to help our 3 point shooting is that just because THEY cant hit the 3 ball regularly doesnt mean that they cant contribute. I look at it this way, if they can get to the hoop or at least be somewhat a threat on offense, then they can also get guys like Jackson and Bender easier open shots, which in turn could get us more 3's a game. Facts are that NONE of our PG's are any kind of threat on offense, so the defense slacks on them and are able to cover other guys faster and more easily. Mudiay and Payton have no issue getting 10-12 points in 20 minutes, something that Ulis struggles with.

Here are the stats of the guys said to be available (Along with Ulis):




Pick your poison.

[bwgood77]

Because we have issues developing even one. Add another super raw prospect playing in that same position and we're not doing them or ourselves any favors. I've shown before that there's only been a handful of games where Bender/Chriss have played well in the same game. How many teams have had a good track record, let alone a track record of successfully developing two raw players in the same position?

I already went over examples of this about a week ago so I don't want to get into it again, but there are plenty of them. It will be a work in process and there is a good chance both don't succeed, but I don't think it will be because they both couldn't start or whatever. They will play some together and it may not look well, but that's because they are raw.

I don't buy into "what players show in show in their second year" as much as age...I think both play a factor, but these guys, if they are going to develop, will develop in practice and in the minutes they get. I've been impressed with some things I've seen and never felt "Man, I wish this other guy wasn't here because the other guy would look better".....now perhaps if Bender started sooner he would look even better now, but you never know...

I mean you could argue the same with TJ...he didn't have another SF drafted with him but couldn't start for a couple of years and played behind Tucker and is playing well now. Would he even be better had he started day 1? Maybe? But maybe not...maybe he plays worse and doesn't work as hard to earn his time.

I think competition is good....it should bring out the best in you...if it doesn't, then you don't belong in the NBA.

And of course, I'm also about positionless basketball and think both can play in the frontcourt in the future, particularly when Bender fills out...he can play C easily with his height.

[bwgood77]

Guys don’t need 48 min/game in order to improve. Both Chriss and Bender have received plenty of PT and simply shown that they were projects (which everyone knew). The other thing about projects is sometimes (by that I mean ‘most times’) they don’t live up to lofty expectations. They’ve still got time to fulfill a high amount of potential, but the reason that Chriss and Bender aren’t All Stars already is NOT that the other guy is on the roster.

Well put. I don't understand the whole argument much so I get tired of arguing it.

[Christine-In-AZ]

Put out simply as a crazy, never really could happen thought experiment (and without specifics)-

If The Suns were able to move off of Chandler, Dudley and Knight's 2019 salary commitments, let say by somehow using many (most) of their '18, '19, '20 and '21 picks ("Stepien" acknowledged). And taking back a couple trade enabling large expirings...

What would be your hot take thought on a James, Booker, George, Warren, Jackson, Bender, Chriss, (solid vet, mid-level FA) Daniels, Canaan, Len, Reed, Ulis Suns '18-'19 team?

Again, out there scenario but...

Top 4 Contender material?

A Foolhardy pursuit?

Something interesting...at least worth the gamble?

[AtheJ415]

Lebron would never come here. We are likely to have a bottom 3 record in the NBA. He wants to win now because he is old. George maybe but even that is highly unlikely. I think you are much more likely to see Lebron take a pay cut and go to OKC or Houston.

If you want to dream, hope we get the first pick and Miami continues to lose until they get into the 10ish area. Then hope somebody with the 2nd or 3rd pick wants someone at 1 (Doncic or Ayton) that we can trade down to for a lot extra (like Fultz/Tatum), then use that extra ammo from said trade and our Miami picks to move back into the top 7, thus getting Young and Bamba. It's unlikely, but more likely than us getting Lebron and George.

Young
Booker
Jackson
Bender
Bamba

with Warren, Chriss, Knight, Sauce bench, plus near max cap space in 2 consecutive offseasons (for mini-max guys), allowing us to pick up guys like Gordon or Capela if needed, or save it all for a supermax the following offseason.

[Christine-In-AZ]

Has anyone heard from RayRay? It's that time of year again!

craving BS