Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 6

[hollywood6964]

The more n more I think of this trade, the more n more I think nothing good can come of it.

He plays well, we win more games, n lose out on a top spot we likely would have secured without him.

He plays well, n he wants n can get, more money than he would've if he had stayed in Orlando. Now we have to overpay or let him walk. Also ties into the last scenario as well, for a double ****.

Only scenario I can see is he plays like **** n we still lose a boat load of games n end up with a top pick anyway, n let him walk, or can sign him for virtually nothing.

I guess another unlikely scenario is he plays extremely well, thinks we have him his shot, n he signs for penny's on the dollar, n we have panned some gold.

Too big of risk in my opinion, I wouldn't have done it. We've come this far, 26 more n we had a highly likely top 3 pick. This may end up being a f-d up tank. Fing stuff up is what this organization does, so it wouldn't surprise me. Odds are in the favor.

[jredsaz]

Read on Twitter

There is opportunity there. That's for sure. Expectations define success in so many situations. This guy could be a good NBA player.

[Kerrsed]

The more n more I think of this trade, the more n more I think nothing good can come of it.

He plays well, we win more games, n lose out on a top spot we likely would have secured without him.

He plays well, n he wants n can get, more money than he would've if he had stayed in Orlando. Now we have to overpay or let him walk. Also ties into the last scenario as well, for a double ****.

Only scenario I can see is he plays like **** n we still lose a boat load of games n end up with a top pick anyway, n let him walk, or can sign him for virtually nothing.

I guess another unlikely scenario is he plays extremely well, thinks we have him his shot, n he signs for penny's on the dollar, n we have panned some gold.

Too big of risk in my opinion, I wouldn't have done it. We've come this far, 26 more n we had a highly likely top 3 pick. This may end up being a f-d up tank. Fing stuff up is what this organization does, so it wouldn't surprise me. Odds are in the favor.

What if he plays great, we still suck, still end up with a top 5 pick, are able to re-sign him for cheap to at least be a back-up while also giving us flexibility on who we draft (In the case someone snags Young before us, so now we arnt desperate to reach for a bust like Sexton, but instead just grab a C or PF like we need). Its a possibility!

Look, we still have issues with our PF and C spots. Even if Payton comes in and starts scoring....say 15 points a game and gives other better looks so he ends up with like 8 assists a game, Our opponents outscore us by at least 8 PPG, so its not like the games are close and he is going to put us over right away. He is young and only played for 1 team before in the league, now here he is with 20+ games left, going to a new team in a new state running a new system with new teammates that he doesnt know, all the while we are facing the toughest schedule in the league (Seriously, look at our upcoming games, we only have 3 games against teams with a worse record than us).

Now, i can see him possibly becoming a difference maker in the offseason, once he has a full training camp to get used to our (Or whatever coach we hire) system and the nuances of his new teammates. But to expect him to lead the team from day 1 being here and all of a sudden we play great and work our way out of a top 5 pick, i just dont see it.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

The more n more I think of this trade, the more n more I think nothing good can come of it.

He plays well, we win more games, n lose out on a top spot we likely would have secured without him.

He plays well, n he wants n can get, more money than he would've if he had stayed in Orlando. Now we have to overpay or let him walk. Also ties into the last scenario as well, for a double ****.

Only scenario I can see is he plays like **** n we still lose a boat load of games n end up with a top pick anyway, n let him walk, or can sign him for virtually nothing.

I guess another unlikely scenario is he plays extremely well, thinks we have him his shot, n he signs for penny's on the dollar, n we have panned some gold.

Too big of risk in my opinion, I wouldn't have done it. We've come this far, 26 more n we had a highly likely top 3 pick. This may end up being a f-d up tank. Fing stuff up is what this organization does, so it wouldn't surprise me. Odds are in the favor.

You need to see a shrink about that pessimism, buddy.

[DirtyDez]

John Wall is a perfect example of how these supermax deals just obliterate their teams. I'm sure Washington will explore trades for him this summer.

[jredsaz]

In respect to acquiring elfrid hurting our lottery odds. I think this acquisition if it works out, helps us not being tied down to taking a point guard in this draft. As much as I like dionic and young, if we arent forced into getting a guard adding someone like bagley or JJJ to our core makes us a much more interesting team. With this trade, we can now take the Best available. We are in a better position if elfid turns into our starting pg of the future, that's for sure even if it cost us a few spots in the draft.

I agree that we need the flexibility on opening up who we pick is important.

We just lost by almost 50 points. Draft BPA. All day. Figure it out after.

[hollywood6964]

The more n more I think of this trade, the more n more I think nothing good can come of it.

He plays well, we win more games, n lose out on a top spot we likely would have secured without him.

He plays well, n he wants n can get, more money than he would've if he had stayed in Orlando. Now we have to overpay or let him walk. Also ties into the last scenario as well, for a double ****.

Only scenario I can see is he plays like **** n we still lose a boat load of games n end up with a top pick anyway, n let him walk, or can sign him for virtually nothing.

I guess another unlikely scenario is he plays extremely well, thinks we have him his shot, n he signs for penny's on the dollar, n we have panned some gold.

Too big of risk in my opinion, I wouldn't have done it. We've come this far, 26 more n we had a highly likely top 3 pick. This may end up being a f-d up tank. Fing stuff up is what this organization does, so it wouldn't surprise me. Odds are in the favor.

What if he plays great, we still suck, still end up with a top 5 pick, are able to re-sign him for cheap to at least be a back-up while also giving us flexibility on who we draft (In the case someone snags Young before us, so now we arnt desperate to reach for a bust like Sexton, but instead just grab a C or PF like we need). Its a possibility!

Look, we still have issues with our PF and C spots. Even if Payton comes in and starts scoring....say 15 points a game and gives other better looks so he ends up with like 8 assists a game, Our opponents outscore us by at least 8 PPG, so its not like the games are close and he is going to put us over right away. He is young and only played for 1 team before in the league, now here he is with 20+ games left, going to a new team in a new state running a new system with new teammates that he doesnt know, all the while we are facing the toughest schedule in the league (Seriously, look at our upcoming games, we only have 3 games against teams with a worse record than us).

Now, i can see him possibly becoming a difference maker in the offseason, once he has a full training camp to get used to our (Or whatever coach we hire) system and the nuances of his new teammates. But to expect him to lead the team from day 1 being here and all of a sudden we play great and work our way out of a top 5 pick, i just dont see it.

He could also go down next game with injury. I'm talking likely possibilities. A couple wins is all it takes to knock us out of the big tank.

[lilfishi22]

The team should be a lot more fun to watch. I guess I shouldn't have said "more fun"...they should be watchable. I am happy for that reason. There is also a chance he takes a major step and the change of scenery will do him good, like it did for Oladipo or Harris.

His shooting numbers have already had a massive uptick this year which is encouraging. People have talked about the low volume but it's still consistent with his volume in other years, but at least he is hitting the shots and finishing.

Maybe it will invigorate him.

It scares me a little because it reminds me of the Knight deal..trading for a pending RFA. Though I don't think he will get an offer in free agency, or not a double digit per year one, so perhaps he would be worth hanging onto for $5-7 million a year or something. I don't know that there will be much in free agency and if we don't draft Doncic or Young, we would likely take a PG later who wouldn't be ready to start.

There is also Knight to consider. If we re-sign Payton, and Knight is healthy and we draft a PG with like the Miami pick, the PG situation still will likely not be ideal.

At least the draft will play out before free agency which should provide a clearer approach.

I thought the same initially but then we gave up a lot for Knight so we couldn't just let him walk for nothing. EP is different. We gave up a 2nd rounder so even if he walked for nothing, at least we took a chance. He's a great back up option regardless of whether we get a Doncic/Young or not. If we do, then he'll be a great back up point and if we don't, he'll be a good option to start. I think having him gives us a lot of flexibility. The more complete we are in each position the less consideration we need to give to drafting for need

[theSUNalsoRISES]

In respect to acquiring elfrid hurting our lottery odds. I think this acquisition if it works out, helps us not being tied down to taking a point guard in this draft. As much as I like dionic and young, if we arent forced into getting a guard adding someone like bagley or JJJ to our core makes us a much more interesting team. With this trade, we can now take the Best available. We are in a better position if elfid turns into our starting pg of the future, that's for sure even if it cost us a few spots in the draft.

I agree that we need the flexibility on opening up who we pick is important.

We just lost by almost 50 points. Draft BPA. All day. Figure it out after.

I still feel teams feel the pressure to make picks according to the general masses. Last year Boston had the number 1 pick and correctly felt the number 1 talent was Tatum. However, if they couldn't trade down, would they have stuck to their guns and picked Tatum at 1?. So having a "promising prospect" at each position we can simply pick the best possible player. That's solid flexibility for the price of a 2nd pick.

[AtheJ415]

I wouldn't say correctly for Tatum. There's a long way to go before you can anoint him the #1 player in that class. Hell, I'd consider Markannen right now thus far. Tatum has slowed down the last month, and he also happens to be coached by a guy who makes everyone look way better than they are.

[Qwigglez]

Watch on YouTube

[bwgood77]

Man, looking at tankathon I'd be pretty pissed if I was a Magic fan...looking at how close the top 8 spots are and then look at the green and red parts.

http://www.tankathon.com/

[theSUNalsoRISES]

I wouldn't say correctly for Tatum. There's a long way to go before you can anoint him the #1 player in that class. Hell, I'd consider Markannen right now thus far. Tatum has slowed down the last month, and he also happens to be coached by a guy who makes everyone look way better than they are.

.
My only point being was that even though the celtics valued Tatum as the number 1, they couldn't simply pick Tatum first without an excuse. By trading down the celtics found a great excuse. Elfrid, allows us to pick whoever we want.

[bwgood77]

I wouldn't say correctly for Tatum. There's a long way to go before you can anoint him the #1 player in that class. Hell, I'd consider Markannen right now thus far. Tatum has slowed down the last month, and he also happens to be coached by a guy who makes everyone look way better than they are.

.
My only point being was that even though the celtics valued Tatum as the number 1, they couldn't simply pick Tatum first without an excuse. By trading down the celtics found a great excuse. Elfrid, allows us to pick whoever we want.

I doubt Ainge or any good GM is worried about pressure of taking consensus too much. They will take who they think is the best player for the roster.

And about this draft class, it might be Mitchell as well.

[cberry78]

Watch on YouTube

Oh damn!

[thamadkant]

I wouldn't say correctly for Tatum. There's a long way to go before you can anoint him the #1 player in that class. Hell, I'd consider Markannen right now thus far. Tatum has slowed down the last month, and he also happens to be coached by a guy who makes everyone look way better than they are.

Tatum has been amazing.
I see Joe Johnson in him. So polished already.


Josh Jackson has a higher ceiling overall mainly due to his athleticism and ability to show progress.


But Markannen... I'll be honest... Didn't expect those numbers on him. That's amazing. Elite 3pt shooting big man who can play PF and C... Block shot and a rookie still. We could be seeing the next great stretch big... Dirk's torch will carry on.

[AtheJ415]

If we end up drafting Doncic or a big, and IT ends up with no market, would Suns fans want him? He might not get very much this offseason. Like maybe 10 a year if his hip checks out. PG is not in high demand and he has the hip issue and his reputation as a headache has returned.

I would say no, but just curious. If he truly gets little interest we may be one of the few who could offer him a starting spot, but it seems other stars don't want to play with him.

[ATTL]

I wouldn't say correctly for Tatum. There's a long way to go before you can anoint him the #1 player in that class. Hell, I'd consider Markannen right now thus far. Tatum has slowed down the last month, and he also happens to be coached by a guy who makes everyone look way better than they are.

Tatum has been amazing.
I see Joe Johnson in him. So polished already.


Josh Jackson has a higher ceiling overall mainly due to his athleticism and ability to show progress.


But Markannen... I'll be honest... Didn't expect those numbers on him. That's amazing. Elite 3pt shooting big man who can play PF and C... Block shot and a rookie still. We could be seeing the next great stretch big... Dirk's torch will carry on.

Lauri seems sturdier than zingus, better rebounder, i like him better than kristaps due to that. I don't trust porzingis to stay healthy.

[bwgood77]

If we end up drafting Doncic or a big, and IT ends up with no market, would Suns fans want him? He might not get very much this offseason. Like maybe 10 a year if his hip checks out. PG is not in high demand and he has the hip issue and his reputation as a headache has returned.

I would say no, but just curious. If he truly gets little interest we may be one of the few who could offer him a starting spot, but it seems other stars don't want to play with him.

I don't want IT under any circumstances. It almost scares me thinking of where he could go, who needs a PG, who has cap space, who is available. But if McD signs him, I will have lost any hope I had left in McD.

I don't know what kind of magic powder...lucky irish charm they have in Boston but IT has not been well liked by teammates anywhere else....I mean in a big way. I don't even know if his teammates there liked him at all (likely not) but they knew how to utilize him completely and not let his ego/personality be a disruption with teammates.

[thamadkant]

John Wall is a perfect example of how these supermax deals just obliterate their teams. I'm sure Washington will explore trades for him this summer.

Yeah super max deals can backfire.

Ideally... You super max multiple stars already on your roster. If you only have 1 and have used up the rest to sign middle players... You're stuck.


Players can sign one year deals and reup at max though right? So players sign lower salary for one year them the team can resign them over the cap? Is that loop hole available?