Elf traded to Phoenix for second rounder

[ralphie9898]

Yeah I don't care about what kind of hair style he has. I don't like it but that's just me. I don't get why it hangs over his face and may somewhat effect his vision at times. But it can be over come so we shall see. But yeah I agree in that this trade may not come back to hurt us. Only time will tell but this one may not have much of a direct impact but maybe just the start of some other moves in the future to get better. Which is what we all want. So we shall see how Payton fares and what we get out of this as we don't know quite what we will get with that pick. We also could get the benefit of not having to pay Payton this summer. It will be interesting to see what kind of money Payton gets. I think it will be somewhat higher but maybe not too much but I don't know know for sure what he will get or who he will get it from so we shall see.

I really dont care about his hair either and he might convince me that with time he got used to play with it pretty good but there is no way in hell that hairstyle is optimal for basketball. It affects the vision and its bouncing all the time back and forth messing with you coordination, jumper.. Its like a 100m sprinter with an afro, i mean you can still run very fast but in no way shape and form is it optimal for sprinting. And you should get every single edge you can over your counterparts, not give stuff away because you like a stupid hairstyle or it means to you so much. I was actualy surprised Magic fans were not more pissed about it during his time here

many of us were. Some of his fans and supporters refused to believe it affected him, even with video proof of it blocking his eyesight when taking a shot.

Watch on YouTube

Yep yep yep don't understand it either. I am not big on policing hair but in his case that style is ridiculous. I am just fine with letting him go for a second rounder. That second has some value as I believe it will be Memphis's if I understand it correctly so it should be somewhere in the top ten of the second. We now have several and can move one or two or more to move up. With the slow deadline and you seeing a lot of moves to just better teams cap picture and try and get some worse deals moved shows that teams are going to be cap conscious and with only a few quality and somewhat younger free agents available maybe we can find a penny pincher or two in the later part of the first who may not want that guaranteed contract on the books. We also get some future savings in this deal that helps create a little more flexibility going forward. So we shall see what happens for us and Payton's enormous and floppy hair will fare.

[ralphie9898]

The Magic put themselves in a bad situation, unfortunately. Either you trade him for almost nothing now or get nothing in return when he walks in the offseason. I realize it was a different front office, but you kinda wonder what the Magic could have gotten a year ago for Payton. I certainly was not a fan of Payton and I don't think he's a starter in today's NBA, but this is a disappointing return regardless.

I wouldn't say it was disappointing. Sure it could be but only time will tell. We don't know that anyone was offering more. its easy to come up with trades but how many of them actually were even talked within the various head offices for teams. And I think this just shows you that contracts matter more then people think. Also Draft picks matter more then what you think. If we would have been offered we may have taken it but even then I question if that was even offered then much less now. He just wasn't worth as much as people thought he was. This also has me thinking that while I think he will get a raise from someone this summer it won't be as much as I though it could be but he does have time to change that but you do have to question if he will as he isn't going to a better situation so we shall see. But we do get two things. That second rounder is still likely to be a top ten in the second and you can still find players who can play just as well as Payton can that early on. Plus we get cap savings as we don't have to worry about giving him a raise just to keep him which very well could have hurt his value even more as he would be more expensive.

[ralphie9898]

The worst part is we are heading into an easier stretch while our guys are going to be healthy, yet again we will probably end up with a record just too good for a top 3 pick and just outside the real franchise talent.

Ok, this is what actually scares me, do we dare to tank properly?


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At this point we need to follow what other teams do and just sit guys and blatantly tank. We avoided it previously and that's part of why we are were we are.

Or that tanking is an over-rated concept. I don't think players and coaches tank as their career is on the line. I don't think it is worth it. Maybe the GM sets up the roster that way but it very well maybe because he has to. Someone has to finish on the bottom and they recognize that their isn't much chance and thus they instead try to compete for assets which is how the other teams do it as well. I don't think they are trying to lose but rather simply trying to get picks where you find the next Lebron, or Durant, or Howard, or Towns or Wiggins and so forth. There are no assurances as we have seen when we have let go of coaches and GMs and even players as we did when we traded Payton away.

[Skin]

I get the frustration over the return of this trade and I think Weltman is one of if not the worst trade negotiators in the league. We did not get the maximum return for Elf, we got the minimum return for Elf.

That said, it had to be done.

I gotta stand by what I preach. Been saying that we need to get rid of Elfrid, Evan and Vuc even if it meant getting nothing back except expirings and/or picks. Taking 1 step back to take 2 steps forward. Well, this day wasn't a total failure since we got rid of 1 of the 3.

I'm especially happy that the Suns got him. Why?

1) I feel like we will certainly be picking higher than them now.
2) I feel like they would actually pass on Trae Young even if they did have a higher pick.
3) Suns fans used to tell me how terrible Elfrid was whenever I tried to convince them to take him in a trade.

LET'S GO TRAE! PRAY FOR TRAE!

[Skin]

I'm just mad that I bought Elfrid's jersey this season!

What was I thinking??

[Stevy]

I really love this franchise, the Magic are my all time favourite sports team (and I'm saying this as an European, where everyone loves soccer ) - but this whole incompetence makes me so sick...

to be honest - Elfrid is no game changer, BUT he is a very solid Point Guard. The market for him is limited - so I bet we could've resigned him without much effort.

We will pay 13 Mio for DJ Augustin and Selvin Mack next season - but we have no money for Elfrid. SICK!!!!!!!!!

[pepe1991]

I really love this franchise, the Magic are my all time favourite sports team (and I'm saying this as an European, where everyone loves soccer ) - but this whole incompetence makes me so sick...

to be honest - Elfrid is no game changer, BUT he is a very solid Point Guard. The market for him is limited - so I bet we could've resigned him without much effort.

We will pay 13 Mio for DJ Augustin and Selvin Mack next season - but we have no money for Elfrid. SICK!!!!!!!!!

actually Mack's contract only guarantees him $1M next year.

BUT he is a very solid Point Guard. The market for him is limited - so I bet we could've resigned him without much effort.

Why would they resign him if they don't think he is good player?

[paperboymafia]

2nd round pick?

Sigh.

[cedric76]

Best of luck to EP

But him not trying his best to improve was the last straw for me.
You have to be really stubborn to not realise that your hair are affecting your shot

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[Stevy]

Why would they resign him if they don't think he is good player?

Because they won't get any better point guard in the free agency ... what dou you think - who should be our floor general next year?

(http://hoopshype.com/2018/01/11/nba-free-agency-2018-the-top-players/)


I see it coming - we will surely overpay someone like Rondo

[fendilim]

Honestly? NOT in today's league where it's all bombs away if you are a guard and/or a lockdown defender if you don't.

Perception is everything. Look at the Biyombo/Mozgov contracts. I bet Smart would get a better return, and I'd rather have Payton. Smart is obviously a way better defender but I feel like his value would only be that impactful on a select number of teams (Celtics, Spurs, etc).

True..but in that sense, where do you think Elf would have shined if not us? Him being as it is now I mean.

Elf is an ok player. He is a bad fit on this team though. Look at Rondo, he succeeded when he had talents around him. Elf is kinda like that, but without an elite skill to compensate for his lack of shooting.

I think he would do better in Phoenix, but i dont see him making Oladipo-esque kind of leap.

[pepe1991]

Why would they resign him if they don't think he is good player?

Because they won't get any better point guard in the free agency ... what dou you think - who should be our floor general next year?

(http://hoopshype.com/2018/01/11/nba-free-agency-2018-the-top-players/)


I see it coming - we will surely overpay someone like Rondo

they can solve their PG position via draft, if not, i'm ok with playing DJ Augustin as starter for a year . Perfect stopgap.
This team is in second rebuild, no reason to rush another quick fix for PG ,that's how we got Payton for painful 4 years despite him not fitting with anybody.

[p0peye]

Why would they resign him if they don't think he is good player?

Because they won't get any better point guard in the free agency ... what dou you think - who should be our floor general next year?

(http://hoopshype.com/2018/01/11/nba-free-agency-2018-the-top-players/)


I see it coming - we will surely overpay someone like Rondo

they can solve their PG position via draft, if not, i'm ok with playing DJ Augustin as starter for a year . Perfect stopgap.
This team is in second rebuild, no reason to rush another quick fix for PG ,that's how we got Payton for painful 4 years despite him not fitting with anybody.

I wouldn't say Payton was a quick fix, at all. Dude fit the bill of what we were looking for at the time: tall, long, defensive pest, floor general - only aspect of his game that needed big development was shooting and we bet on him improving there. It was a good bet in nutshell, as other aspects are not something you can teach.

He just failed us, I might say miserably at least in my case. Huge disappointment in his development, motor and defense.

[pepe1991]

Because they won't get any better point guard in the free agency ... what dou you think - who should be our floor general next year?

(http://hoopshype.com/2018/01/11/nba-free-agency-2018-the-top-players/)


I see it coming - we will surely overpay someone like Rondo

they can solve their PG position via draft, if not, i'm ok with playing DJ Augustin as starter for a year . Perfect stopgap.
This team is in second rebuild, no reason to rush another quick fix for PG ,that's how we got Payton for painful 4 years despite him not fitting with anybody.

I wouldn't say Payton was a quick fix, at all. Dude fit the bill of what we were looking for at the time: tall, long, defensive pest, floor general - only aspect of his game that needed big development was shooting and we bet on him improving there. It was a good bet in nutshell, as other aspects are not something you can teach.

He just failed us, I might say miserably at least in my case. Huge disappointment in his development, motor and defense.

He was always terrible fit next to Oladipo, decision to solve PG position in 2014 was rushed in general, especially because 2014 draft had zero good PG prospects. Smart, him, Exum, Ennis and Napier were only first round PG prospects

[Stevy]

PG via Draft is not a bad idea - everyone wants Trae Young - but I prefer Luka Doncic. He would do great as primary ball handler - his high basketball IQ would qualify him as our PG of the future.

[drsd]

they can solve their PG position via draft, if not, i'm ok with playing DJ Augustin as starter for a year .

Rookie PGs are universally awful. It is good that Augustin is locked in for two more years after this season. If the Magic end up with Young, Augustin's role as an educator and mentor will be well defined.

..

[drsd]

According to Frank Isola of the New York Daily News, the New York Knicks and former Orlando Magic assistant general manager Scott Perry wanted Elfrid Payton. But the Magic were insistent on acquiring rookie guard Frank Ntilikina in the deal.

Interesting rumor as it speaks to what GM Hammond is trying to do a the PG slot.

..

[axl_c_cool]

According to Frank Isola of the New York Daily News, the New York Knicks and former Orlando Magic assistant general manager Scott Perry wanted Elfrid Payton. But the Magic were insistent on acquiring rookie guard Frank Ntilikina in the deal.

Interesting rumor as it speaks to what GM Hammond is trying to do a the PG slot.

..

If that was the case we should have offered to swap Biyombo for Noah and give them a 2nd. I hope we did. Frank next to Fournier and Doncic would have been amazing


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[UCFJayBird]

I was a fan of EP, I just don't think this was the right system for him. I think one day he'll wind up somewhere and he'll be another former Magician fans say "how did we let him get away?!" (you know how we forget reasons, lol).

I guess we had to get something for him, just wish it was more than a 2nd Rounder.

BTW as much as we grind on his hair affecting his shot, he is shooting 37% from 3-point land this year. Too bad his FT% went way down again. smh.

Best of luck to him. I'll continue to be a fan.

[Optimus_Steel]

Since the Orlando Magic obviously won’t do it themselves in the wake of their unceremonious dumping of floppy-haired point guard Elfrid Payton at the 11th hour of the NBA Trade Deadline on Thursday, allow me the honors of apologizing to former coach Scott Skiles.

Skiles tried to tell hard-headed former GM Rob Hennigan that Payton wasn’t a starting point guard in the NBA and Hennigan, of course, disagreed. It was a predictable response from Hennigan, who ridiculously traded a first- and second-round pick to acquire Payton in the 2014 draft.

In hindsight, it’s astonishing to think Philly had the 10th pick in the 2014 draft and Orlando had the 12th pick and Hennigan felt the need to give up two draft picks for a player of Payton’s limited skill set whom he might have been able to draft anyway.

What’s even more baffling is that Skiles, who played point guard in the NBA for a decade, was essentially overruled when he told Hennigan and Magic CEO Alex Martins of his concerns about Payton and other limited players on Orlando’s roster. Skiles quit after only one season because of his frustration with Hennigan.

“Scott certainly had his concerns; I don’t think that was any secret,” Martins told me when I asked him once if he should have listened to Skiles instead of Hennigan. “He made that very well known. He and I had several conversations about things during his tenure here.”

One of those concerns was Payton, a great guy but a not-so-great point guard. Many Magic fans on social media were complaining Thursday because Orlando traded Payton to Phoenix for a bag of balls (see second-round draft pick), but essentially that’s all he was worth. There is simply not a whole lot of demand for marginal point guards who can’t shoot and can’t defend.

“What the player is worth is what the league says he’s worth,” said Jeff Weltman, the Magic’s president of basketball operations. “We don’t create the market. The league creates the market.”

Here’s all you need to know: Scott Perry, now the GM of the New York Knicks who was Hennigan’s right-hand man in Orlando, wanted nothing to do with Payton at the trade deadline. Instead the Knicks made a deal for Denver Nuggets backup point guard Emmanuel Mudiay.

Payton is just the latest example of the nightmarish Hennigan era in Orlando. He will go down as just another wasted draft pick and another awful personnel move amid Hennigan’s failed rebuild.

Like most of Hennigan’s personnel moves, the departure of Elfrid Payton was just another in a long line of bad hair days for the Orlando Magic.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orlando-magic/os-sp-elfrid-payton-trade-orlando-magic-phoenix-suns-skiles-hennigan-20180208-story.html

Bianchi bringing up again Skiles strong dislike for Payton.