Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 6

[jcsunsfan]

Wow, The Capualtor is so great!

It is great. What is meant by the term "Apron room" at the bottom of the page?

[BobbieL]

Wow, The Capualtor is so great!

Pretty interesting tool. The Suns were at 14m of cap space for next year but Payton does bring that down to 10m Though I doubt he will cost that much - the QO is 4.5m or something so there is some space.

Len renounced is 8m

Ulis included in a trade is 1.5m

If they package the Miami pick with their own that's another 2m

the Suns will have space to work with

I wouldn't stretch Knight until the last year if possible.

[dremill24]

Wow, The Capualtor is so great!

It is great. What is meant by the term "Apron room" at the bottom of the page?

There is a “luxury tax apron” that once you cross, if you make certain types of transactions, hard caps you. It’s a lot of “if, then’s“ and kinda complicated but that’s the simple way.

[jcsunsfan]

Wow, The Capualtor is so great!

It is great. What is meant by the term "Apron room" at the bottom of the page?

There is a “luxury tax apron” that once you cross, if you make certain types of transactions, hard caps you. It’s a lot of “if, then’s“ and kinda complicated but that’s the simple way.

Uh. What? Did you leave out half a sentence?

[gaspar]

It is great. What is meant by the term "Apron room" at the bottom of the page?

There is a “luxury tax apron” that once you cross, if you make certain types of transactions, hard caps you. It’s a lot of “if, then’s“ and kinda complicated but that’s the simple way.

Uh. What? Did you leave out half a sentence?

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q20

[jcsunsfan]

There is a “luxury tax apron” that once you cross, if you make certain types of transactions, hard caps you. It’s a lot of “if, then’s“ and kinda complicated but that’s the simple way.

Uh. What? Did you leave out half a sentence?

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q20

ty

[BobbieL]

There is a “luxury tax apron” that once you cross, if you make certain types of transactions, hard caps you. It’s a lot of “if, then’s“ and kinda complicated but that’s the simple way.

Uh. What? Did you leave out half a sentence?

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q20

Dave King wrote a blog piece saying the "Suns are over the cap with this trade"

Technically he is true - but there are so many ways for the Suns to get under the cap - but is there a FA worth going under the cap for too? - I think the Suns have pieces to trade: the Heat pick either to move up in the draft or with an asset. Ulis is the type of contract that is moved as its not guaranteed. Daniels has 3.5m less. Sauce Williams, 5.5m not guaranteed; Len is 8m. I doubt Payton gets 10m - I actually hope he plays well enough for a Sweet Lou deal.... but one step at a time

[Wilber85]

Elfrid Payton is nice! I like his size and a new opportunity

Now all we need are some shooters!!!

Who are the best shooters in the draft? (besides Trae Young)

Would Doncic be a good fit?

Elfrid Payton
Booker
Doncic
Jackson
Bamba (Trade up)

[alphagorilla]

this is what I'm hoping for this summer.

- Draft Ayton
- Trade Chriss/bender + bucks pick + Knight/chandler for Kevin Love
- Get a solid backup PG

Payton / ?
Booker/ Daniels
Jackson/TJ
Love/Bender
Ayton/Williams

One time!!!

[Waylay13]

this is what I'm hoping for this summer.

- Draft Ayton
- Trade Chriss/bender + bucks pick + Knight/chandler for Kevin Love
- Get a solid backup PG

Payton / ?
Booker/ Daniels
Jackson/TJ
Love/Bender
Ayton/Williams

One time!!!

The problem with this is that love is well out of the timeline and he is already slowing down a great deal. You might get some development time with him from as the rest of the team learned what it takes to win in the playoffs but then he would be gone and we would be short a power forward.

[BobbieL]

this is what I'm hoping for this summer.

- Draft Ayton
- Trade Chriss/bender + bucks pick + Knight/chandler for Kevin Love
- Get a solid backup PG

Payton / ?
Booker/ Daniels
Jackson/TJ
Love/Bender
Ayton/Williams

One time!!!

I think its going to be hard to move a Knight contract when he hasn't played for a year. Chandler might have some value because he would be expiring - but aside from Love - what veteran player is worth the dollars. Kemba Walker this summer - but that means taking back a bad deal and he has one year left.

Free agency - believe the market is thing. Not like the Rockets would want Tyson in an S&T for Capela I would doubt. And does Capela help the Suns for example

I guess I could be on board with Love if the Cavs are rebuilding.

[LukasBMW]

Payton is not going to be good enough to win us too many games. While it is tempting to just keep cycling in D-league guys to fill in at PG with Ulis, it's also bad for morale. We're already starting to have some of the problems Philly had during their tanking period.

In the short term (rest of the season), adding Payton gives us a starting "unselfish" PG to direct the offense and get our young guys better looks so we can better evaluate them. He also takes some pressure off Ulis and will allow Ulis to return to his role as a backup where he excelled before.

In the long term, Payton gives us options. He needed a change of scenery and we got the chance to test drive him for almost free. After we see how the pingpong balls land and gauge interest from free agents, we can then decide if we want to keep him.

[thamadkant]

The team seriously lacks 3pt shooting.

The thing is, Josh Jackson WILL eventually start and own it too. Booker is there with him, then if Payton becomes the staple PG.... you need a sharp shooting PF to help out Booker. Or a Center.


I want Ayton. But if Suns get him (lol), they need Bender to become a 3pt specialist first then all-rounder second. If not then they need to trade for Kevin Love.



If Suns drafts Bagley... then they need a sharp shooting Center. Brook Lopez is my target then. He'd be good for 2 three pointers a game. I would expect 17ppg 7rpg 2bpg and 2 three pointer makes from him. That would be worth 17-20 million a year and be happy with it.



If Suns draft Doncic... this means Payton is off the bench... and Suns still need a Big Man, so same as above. I would still aim for Brook Lopez.

[jredsaz]

Payton is not going to be good enough to win us too many games. While it is tempting to just keep cycling in D-league guys to fill in at PG with Ulis, it's also bad for morale. We're already starting to have some of the problems Philly had during their tanking period.

In the short term (rest of the season), adding Payton gives us a starting "unselfish" PG to direct the offense and get our young guys better looks so we can better evaluate them. He also takes some pressure off Ulis and will allow Ulis to return to his role as a backup where he excelled before.

In the long term, Payton gives us options. He needed a change of scenery and we got the chance to test drive him for almost free. After we see how the pingpong balls land and gauge interest from free agents, we can then decide if we want to keep him.

I think he will help with development too. Suns have 26 games left. That's almost a full college season worth of development time for Jackson, Bender and Chriss. Having a true point, over six feet tall, who can facilitate will help these guys improve.

[Wilber85]

The team seriously lacks 3pt shooting.

The thing is, Josh Jackson WILL eventually start and own it too. Booker is there with him, then if Payton becomes the staple PG.... you need a sharp shooting PF to help out Booker. Or a Center.


I want Ayton. But if Suns get him (lol), they need Bender to become a 3pt specialist first then all-rounder second. If not then they need to trade for Kevin Love.



If Suns drafts Bagley... then they need a sharp shooting Center. Brook Lopez is my target then. He'd be good for 2 three pointers a game. I would expect 17ppg 7rpg 2bpg and 2 three pointer makes from him. That would be worth 17-20 million a year and be happy with it.



If Suns draft Doncic... this means Payton is off the bench... and Suns still need a Big Man, so same as above. I would still aim for Brook Lopez.

What if we can get

Doncic with our Pick and get Bamba with a trade Miami pick and chriss?

Cant Doncic play the 3?

Payton
Booker
Doncic
Jackson
Bamba

[thamadkant]

The team seriously lacks 3pt shooting.

The thing is, Josh Jackson WILL eventually start and own it too. Booker is there with him, then if Payton becomes the staple PG.... you need a sharp shooting PF to help out Booker. Or a Center.


I want Ayton. But if Suns get him (lol), they need Bender to become a 3pt specialist first then all-rounder second. If not then they need to trade for Kevin Love.



If Suns drafts Bagley... then they need a sharp shooting Center. Brook Lopez is my target then. He'd be good for 2 three pointers a game. I would expect 17ppg 7rpg 2bpg and 2 three pointer makes from him. That would be worth 17-20 million a year and be happy with it.



If Suns draft Doncic... this means Payton is off the bench... and Suns still need a Big Man, so same as above. I would still aim for Brook Lopez.

What if we can get

Doncic with our Pick and get Bamba with a trade Miami pick and chriss?

Cant Doncic play the 3?

Payton
Booker
Doncic
Jackson
Bamba

I dont think McD or Sarver wants 2 rookies, especially if one or both are "projects" again. They are learning (learnt) from Bender and Chriss.... it TAKES a LONG time... and the results are ugly, and its still not even guaranteed they will get there.



I think Suns will AIM for a top rookie... then go for FAs. They want to form a team to get Wins sooner than later.

So 1 impact Rookie and FA shopping IMO.

[AtheJ415]

The path for contention has always been draft, FA, then trade, in that order. It's the way we build the best lineup because it best allows us to use our cap space.

With Peyton's 10 mil cap hold, our practical cap space is $15 million this offseason. I would advocate for signing reasonable deals at that point. Mini-max is still an option if we re-sign Elfrid to less than the cap and move one of Dudley and Chandler, but Gordon is the only one I see as wanting to consider that option for. I still am not sold Capela would be worth that much, but we may be able to get him for less than the mini max anyways.

I like the 2019 FA's a lot more. Cousins is the only moderately realistic option for a true star this year and his injury is scary. In 2019, there are PGs and bigs worth going after, and we move on from Knight, Dudley, and Chandler, and Sauce, which between them ought to give us enough for a true max before signing Booker, and then we ought to be able to trade some of the young guys on rookie deals for a star who becomes available.

[Fo-Real]

Seems like a realistic outcome is to run with Knight Payton and Ulis next year. Sure, it might be horse/carting a bit, but if The EPay can play, it certainly can effect the drafting strategy (if there is one)

Nice riskless addition, though could cause a slight sputter in the tank

Yep, Knight could also be used as back up Sg.

[thamadkant]

Suns have space, its also CRITICAL they use that to nab a STAR FA.

Then resign internally developed players (Booker, Warren etc) to long term contracts... locking in the CORE.


I think Suns will AIM to sign a Star locked in next off season before Booker's 100 million plus contract is due.

[AtheJ415]

The team seriously lacks 3pt shooting.

The thing is, Josh Jackson WILL eventually start and own it too. Booker is there with him, then if Payton becomes the staple PG.... you need a sharp shooting PF to help out Booker. Or a Center.


I want Ayton. But if Suns get him (lol), they need Bender to become a 3pt specialist first then all-rounder second. If not then they need to trade for Kevin Love.



If Suns drafts Bagley... then they need a sharp shooting Center. Brook Lopez is my target then. He'd be good for 2 three pointers a game. I would expect 17ppg 7rpg 2bpg and 2 three pointer makes from him. That would be worth 17-20 million a year and be happy with it.



If Suns draft Doncic... this means Payton is off the bench... and Suns still need a Big Man, so same as above. I would still aim for Brook Lopez.

What if we can get

Doncic with our Pick and get Bamba with a trade Miami pick and chriss?

Cant Doncic play the 3?

Payton
Booker
Doncic
Jackson
Bamba

I dont think McD or Sarver wants 2 rookies, especially if one or both are "projects" again. They are learning (learnt) from Bender and Chriss.... it TAKES a LONG time... and the results are ugly, and its still not even guaranteed they will get there.



I think Suns will AIM for a top rookie... then go for FAs. They want to form a team to get Wins sooner than later.

So 1 impact Rookie and FA shopping IMO.

If the 2 rookies are Doncic and Bamba we sure as hell better not be passing on that. Bamba in particular has the ability to transform the defense more than any player we could realistically get outside of Deandre and he can do it with actual offensive upside and at 1/4 of the cost.

I don't think it's smart to look at anything as "we can't get X amount of X". It limits you drastically. This is a good draft, and those are 2 studs with a guy like Bamba who would be top 3 in most drafts of the past decade.