Nets - In Season Moves & Possible Trade Ideas

[MrDollarBills]

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As they damn well should. not some mid to late 1st. good.

[Netaman]

Being committed to development doesn't mean players will develop, just like being a high pick doesn't mean you will definitely be a great player. As much as Marks and Atkinson are committed to development, Russell and Okafor could easily end up having less fruitful careers than Jarrett Allen and Caris Levert despite their vast talents.

To quote Chris Berman, "that's why they play the games". Nothing is a certainty. Owning a higher pick gives you a better chance at selecting a better player, but it's not such a certainty that it's worth demoralizing a roster of young players. Losing that many games takes a lot of bad habits that are hard to correct.

This year should get this organization 1 step further along to figuring out who can be part of the core for multiple years going forward, but after 4 months and with just 2 left I think we can safely say there aren't too many easy answers. Jarrett Allen is a stud. Levert is a great fit whether he's coming off the bench or eventually starts. But it looks like it will be a multi-year process to see whether Russell or Dinwiddie is the long term PG or if they can thrive together as a starting backcourt. Quick answers are usually the wrong answers when it comes to team building, just ask Billy King. I'm glad they didn't make any abrupt moves at the deadline. Keep building piece by piece and save the bullets for young players that are coveted. Maybe this year they'll have the ammo to move up and get their Donovan Mitchell.

[MrDollarBills]

Don't be surprised if it happens. Are we ready to commit $60mil to DLo, Dinwiddie & RHJ, and then big money to LeVert the following year? We have some nice pieces, but even if they all keep developing, I don't see this core competing with Boston, Philly or Milwaukee in a few years. So what are the options? Grow into mediocrity, combine a few young guys to try and trade for a star, or trade a few young guys for picks, tank & draft high, and then try to add a star with cap space or via trade? As painful as it would be to stretch out the rebuild, the last option is likely the safest/smartest option.

I think the 2020 offseason might be the targeted point for a big move in time. DWill, Mozgov & Crabbe will all be off the books. Allen will still be on his rookie deal, and LeVert will have a reasonable cap hold. That also allows for 2 years of our own picks, and to potentially take on more salary dumps utilizing the soon to be expirings of Lin & Carroll. We can debate who the future core should be, but let's say we hypothetically get 1sts for RHJ & Dinwiddie, retain DLo, acquire at least one additional salary dump 1st, have top 7 picks in 2019 & 2020 & have cap space for two maxes in 2020. At that point, things look extremely bright.

Hinkie's process started in 2013 & it's just starting to bear fruit (after 4 seasons). He started from a much better base. To think Marks could turn things around faster starting with no picks is unrealistic. At least we've gotten an enjoyable product to watch this year, but we'll likely have to take a step backwards before being able to take two leaps forward.

This plan falls right on its face the moment we start talking about having two max slots for 2020 on a team that is in the bottom 7 in 2019 and 2020. Max level free agents aren't going to come to a Nets team that has been a bottom 6 team for 10 years. I'm not saying this about you, but in general I have always found the idea that the Nets are going to be signing max free agents coming off of losing seasons to be delusional.

Tanking also does not guarantee a superstar will fall into the Nets laps either. I remember the sting of not getting the 1st pick after enduring a 12-70 season.

Anyway, if this is the Nets' plan, to kick the can down the road, Marks will be fired just like Hinkie was before it yields fruit.

Even if we don't SIGN a free agent, having 2 max slots, an army of rookie deals & a trove of draft picks opens up enormous opportunities in the trade market. There's more than one way to use cap space.

You're correct, it does. I don't have any interest though, after being invested in this new regime and group for this season and last, for the Nets just to take a huge step backwards just to regain that. I'd sit it out. This is literally a decade or more of losing basketball this plan calls for. i'm already disheartened over the last 8 games, thinking about having to go backwards at this point will make me lose interest quickly.

[MrDollarBills]

Cavs pick won't be very enticing. If it was our pick back for Din + Filler that's another story.

I think the safe assumption on the cavs pick would be like the 24-28 range.

I'm sure that an offer for a pick in that range will still be available to us on draft day if we want it... and by waiting we get to see how contract talks with dinwiddie go and how he finishes the year.

smart by marks to hold out for more.

If it was a pick in the teens, I think the deal would've gotten done.

teens? I'm not trading Dinwiddie for less than a pick inside the top 10-12 at least.

[MrDollarBills]

I'm not entire against the Idea of Trading D'angelo Russell for a pick in the late lotto/early teens.

Look I get he is 21 and has barely played here. And I'd be fine holding on to him. But I look at this team and Combo Gaurd is a strength and a position we can lock down relatively cheap going forward (Levert/Dinwiddie). Then I see a pretty big void at SF for a guy who can score 20+ and create his own offense as a 2-way guy. thats really what we are missing. that jimmy butler/kawai type (not necessarily as good as them but that mold of player).

I have my reservations that Russell Will be more of a Monte Ellis/Beal type then a Harden Type and that we will have to pay him big money before we ever find out.

I'm all for Keeping RHJ on bazemore type money and Levert when his time comes too... but im not sure I want to go like 5/130 for Russell if i can get a lottery pick and 3 years at rookie scale.

If we did that we would REALLY be looking good headed into 2019-2020 with Carroll/Crabbe/Mozgov coming off the books and the only big salary would be RHJ and maybe Levert if extended with The Mayor on like a 4/45 type deal maybe? Also would be able to bring Harris back then.

Dinwiddie | Levert | [ROOKIE] | RHJ | Allen

Whitehead/ROOKIE | Harris | Stauskus | Cunningham | Okafor

MAX + Caproom

first rounder this year - Pick #27 (via Raptors)
first rounder this year - Lotto pick (via team who gets russell)

2020 first - our own we control
2021 first - our own we control

I think there is ALOT of merit to taking this path.

With how marks has drafted giving him 2 picks in this draft and our own pick in 2020 and asking him to find our version of jimmy butler/george/kawai?

I like the odds of Marks being able to draft/sign/trade for our future all-star SF with 3 picks and max cap room then i do giving russell 130 million and hoping it works out

This is a sensible use of an asset though which I wouldn't be against.

What is being advocated is a firesale instead of not paying guys and kicking the can down the road and going for Hinkie style rebuild. I'm not interested in wasting my time while the Nets throw **** at a wall and hoping that it sticks.

Obviously, it would be crazy to cap this team out early on. your plan makes total sense. Not paying guys and firesaling them all for picks in an obvious tank job, well...

[MrDollarBills]

Be careful. You're creeping into FAKE fan territory. Prokorov will show you the door if you keep this up

I'm with him. the day the nets tank im out.

I'm fine with a poor record and focusing on development. but the day we start losing on purpose or hindering development for a higher pick im done

Teams that tank absolutely focus on development. MDB won't bite, you can disagree with him.

if you're fine with losing on purpose, by all means tune in for it. Right now we are losing not because the team isn't trying or is purposely tanking. I can deal with this season just like last season. if next season we win 30 games i'm fine with that too. but if we go from here to back to 12 win seasons praying that we draft the next Lebron James, I'm not supporting it.

[TheNetsFan]

Don't get too connected to more than a few players. Culture & Continuity get thrown out there all the time, but it really only counts for management & the top of the roster. The bottom half plus of the rosters have to get churned. You need to fill out a roster with cheap players that outperform their pay checks. You can’t retain everybody at increasing salary & simply bank on across the board growth.

Doing a quick case study of some of the "model" franchises (Warriors, Spurs & Celtics), let’s compare their rosters 3 years ago (2014-2015 aka GSW’s first Championship) versus this year’s rosters.

The Warriors have 5 players from ‘14-’15 still on the roster.
The Spurs have 6 players from ‘14-’15 still on the roster.
The Celtics have 1 player from ‘14-’15 still on the roster (& Marcus Smart was dangled at the trade deadline).

Based on 15 roster spots, 60% of the Spurs roster, 67% of the Warriors roster & 93% of the Celtics roster has changed in 3 years.

I feel confident that we finally have the right management & coaching in place. Now we need to move heaven & earth to find a legit, core 3-4 players to build around for the long-term. I’m not sure we have more than 1 or 2 of those core pieces (if any) on the roster presently. We can’t cap ourselves out or hover in mediocrity until that happens, even if that means trading away 4th through 10th type players.

It's why I'm leaning towards the continue to sell & stockpile picks philosophy for the next two years. If we can land an elite draft prospect & swing a big Griffin like trade for picks, cap space & prospects, we can make leaps forward. I don't want RHJ+DLO+Dinwiddie combining for $60mil/year before we have marquee players.

[Prokorov]

Teams that tank absolutely focus on development. MDB won't bite, you can disagree with him.

Tell that to Nerlens Noel, Jahlil Okafor, and Michael Carter Williams.

Tanking is usually in detriment to development.

3 guys with 1 foot out of the league are your examples?

Yes.... 3 LOTTERY picks whom they forced to sit on the bench, held out with when they were healthy, or in noels case straight up told him he makes them more competitive. all 3 of those guys were disgruntled they were being held back.

I'm glad tat TJ McConnell went from scrub to role guy and that covington has been good. but to say they havent sacraficed development in favor of tanking is crazy. not to mention saric wanted to come over a year earlier and they wouldnt do it.

[shakendfries]

I'm not entire against the Idea of Trading D'angelo Russell for a pick in the late lotto/early teens.

Look I get he is 21 and has barely played here. And I'd be fine holding on to him. But I look at this team and Combo Gaurd is a strength and a position we can lock down relatively cheap going forward (Levert/Dinwiddie). Then I see a pretty big void at SF for a guy who can score 20+ and create his own offense as a 2-way guy. thats really what we are missing. that jimmy butler/kawai type (not necessarily as good as them but that mold of player).

I have my reservations that Russell Will be more of a Monte Ellis/Beal type then a Harden Type and that we will have to pay him big money before we ever find out.

I'm all for Keeping RHJ on bazemore type money and Levert when his time comes too... but im not sure I want to go like 5/130 for Russell if i can get a lottery pick and 3 years at rookie scale.

If we did that we would REALLY be looking good headed into 2019-2020 with Carroll/Crabbe/Mozgov coming off the books and the only big salary would be RHJ and maybe Levert if extended with The Mayor on like a 4/45 type deal maybe? Also would be able to bring Harris back then.

Dinwiddie | Levert | [ROOKIE] | RHJ | Allen

Whitehead/ROOKIE | Harris | Stauskus | Cunningham | Okafor

MAX + Caproom

first rounder this year - Pick #27 (via Raptors)
first rounder this year - Lotto pick (via team who gets russell)

2020 first - our own we control
2021 first - our own we control

I think there is ALOT of merit to taking this path.

With how marks has drafted giving him 2 picks in this draft and our own pick in 2020 and asking him to find our version of jimmy butler/george/kawai?

I like the odds of Marks being able to draft/sign/trade for our future all-star SF with 3 picks and max cap room then i do giving russell 130 million and hoping it works out

the player nets brass may consider trading russell for is chandler hutchinson - this kid is skyrocketing up draft boards & the nets scouts have been spotted at his games this season

Watch on YouTube

this kid is looking like paul george 2.0

[JiggaMan06]

Interested to see what will Dlo have to do for the rest of the season to become untouchable to you guys. Is it consistent 20 point games, double digit assist games or new career high?

[MrDollarBills]

Don't get too connected to more than a few players. Culture & Continuity get thrown out there all the time, but it really only counts for management & the top of the roster. The bottom half plus of the rosters have to get churned. You need to fill out a roster with cheap players that outperform their pay checks. You can’t retain everybody at increasing salary & simply bank on across the board growth.

Doing a quick case study of some of the "model" franchises (Warriors, Spurs & Celtics), let’s compare their rosters 3 years ago (2014-2015 aka GSW’s first Championship) versus this year’s rosters.

The Warriors have 5 players from ‘14-’15 still on the roster.
The Spurs have 6 players from ‘14-’15 still on the roster.
The Celtics have 1 player from ‘14-’15 still on the roster (& Marcus Smart was dangled at the trade deadline).

Based on 15 roster spots, 60% of the Spurs roster, 67% of the Warriors roster & 93% of the Celtics roster has changed in 3 years.

I feel confident that we finally have the right management & coaching in place. Now we need to move heaven & earth to find a legit, core 3-4 players to build around for the long-term. I’m not sure we have more than 1 or 2 of those core pieces (if any) on the roster presently. We can’t cap ourselves out or hover in mediocrity until that happens, even if that means trading away 4th through 10th type players.

It's why I'm leaning towards the continue to sell & stockpile picks philosophy for the next two years. If we can land an elite draft prospect & swing a big Griffin like trade for picks, cap space & prospects, we can make leaps forward. I don't want RHJ+DLO+Dinwiddie combining for $60mil/year before we have marquee players.

I support any move that takes them team forward, and I am with you when it comes to capping this team out early on when we are unsure about the core group. My issue isn't an attachment to players, its watching the team firesale players for picks, fielding a g league roster and praying that the basketball gods don't **** us over like they have done every single year of this franchise's cursed existence

[Keith Van Horn]

Hey MDB, don't forget we have a whole new regime in place that does a great job of drafting and analyzing talent, as well as getting good value in trades. You mention us having that dreadful year 12-70 (which I remember too, praying Yi would become the new Chinese Dirk :/ ) and us missing out on the #1 pick. But who else did we avoid and not draft within the top-10? Cousins, Gordon Hayward, and Paul George. I think Marks would've crushed that draft and Kenny would've been amazing at bringing any one of those players along. I think next year we'll be bad and in 19-20 we'll be better, but still drafting around 15. After that we'll have a good group in place I believe. I don't think we'll ever see Marks raise a white year after year like Hinkie did. I have faith in this front office and I think it's deserved from what we've seen so far.

Also Prok, I agree with your lengthy assessment about DLo. It'd have to be a can't miss offer though, like a top 5 pick.

[LOUiS-D]

Read on Twitter

As they damn well should. not some mid to late 1st. good.

The crazy thing is that if the Cavs did manage to pry Dinwiddie away without returning our pick it would have taken more wins away from us and given them more ping pong balls. I don't doubt they made serious offers.

[MGrand15]

if you're fine with losing on purpose, by all means tune in for it. Right now we are losing not because the team isn't trying or is purposely tanking. I can deal with this season just like last season. if next season we win 30 games i'm fine with that too. but if we go from here to back to 12 win seasons praying that we draft the next Lebron James, I'm not supporting it.

I'm messing around cause Prokorov called me a fake fan for not wanting to see the team win 15 games next year.

I'm very anti-tank.

I wouldn't trade any of our core players (Dinwiddie, LeVert, RHJ, Allen, Russell) for picks. I will say if we bring back the same team and we're still in the 20-28 win range next year, the core is NOT good enough and we need to start looking into selling high on certain guys. Not saying we should be competing for a chip but with LeVert in his 3rd year, Dinwiddie/RHJ/Russell in their 4th year, Crabbe in his 6th year - we should be making some noise.

[Paradise]

Cavs pick won't be very enticing. If it was our pick back for Din + Filler that's another story.

I think the safe assumption on the cavs pick would be like the 24-28 range.

I'm sure that an offer for a pick in that range will still be available to us on draft day if we want it... and by waiting we get to see how contract talks with dinwiddie go and how he finishes the year.

smart by marks to hold out for more.

Prok they were trying to rob us blind. I think King does that deal wit out realizing how we'd play poor after it and make their pick from top 10 to top 5.

Yeah, I think a Cavs fan made an offer of zizic + their pick a few days ago.

That’s a fairly insulting offer.

[tonman]

I'm not entire against the Idea of Trading D'angelo Russell for a pick in the late lotto/early teens.

Look I get he is 21 and has barely played here. And I'd be fine holding on to him. But I look at this team and Combo Gaurd is a strength and a position we can lock down relatively cheap going forward (Levert/Dinwiddie). Then I see a pretty big void at SF for a guy who can score 20+ and create his own offense as a 2-way guy. thats really what we are missing. that jimmy butler/kawai type (not necessarily as good as them but that mold of player).

I have my reservations that Russell Will be more of a Monte Ellis/Beal type then a Harden Type and that we will have to pay him big money before we ever find out.

I'm all for Keeping RHJ on bazemore type money and Levert when his time comes too... but im not sure I want to go like 5/130 for Russell if i can get a lottery pick and 3 years at rookie scale.

If we did that we would REALLY be looking good headed into 2019-2020 with Carroll/Crabbe/Mozgov coming off the books and the only big salary would be RHJ and maybe Levert if extended with The Mayor on like a 4/45 type deal maybe? Also would be able to bring Harris back then.

Dinwiddie | Levert | [ROOKIE] | RHJ | Allen

Whitehead/ROOKIE | Harris | Stauskus | Cunningham | Okafor

MAX + Caproom

first rounder this year - Pick #27 (via Raptors)
first rounder this year - Lotto pick (via team who gets russell)

2020 first - our own we control
2021 first - our own we control

I think there is ALOT of merit to taking this path.

With how marks has drafted giving him 2 picks in this draft and our own pick in 2020 and asking him to find our version of jimmy butler/george/kawai?

I like the odds of Marks being able to draft/sign/trade for our future all-star SF with 3 picks and max cap room then i do giving russell 130 million and hoping it works out

Theres the possibility that russell doesnt even reach beal level. People make it sound as if its a gimmee. Dinwiddie looked more like a taller kendall marshall then a trade for a lottery pick player for much his career. Believe it or not, marshall shot .37 from three. Rhj may be playing well at the 4 but playing well is relative. Hes no stretch 4 nor is he even close to being an adequate 3 point shooter. You can hide his shooting at the 4 but then he is undersized. I really LIKE allen.

Marks could draft the next star SF but thats not a gimmee either. He can do so at #1 or #30. How can he get the star player without assets going out?

Winning is important. Winning with a balance of youngsters and vets are important. Teams jockying for playoffs are always wanting help. Thinking you build this roster with just youngsters is idioitic. Play to win. Build to win. Always look to the future but never forget what you are doing now.

[Roy Tarpley]

I'm not entire against the Idea of Trading D'angelo Russell for a pick in the late lotto/early teens.

Look I get he is 21 and has barely played here. And I'd be fine holding on to him. But I look at this team and Combo Gaurd is a strength and a position we can lock down relatively cheap going forward (Levert/Dinwiddie). Then I see a pretty big void at SF for a guy who can score 20+ and create his own offense as a 2-way guy. thats really what we are missing. that jimmy butler/kawai type (not necessarily as good as them but that mold of player).

I have my reservations that Russell Will be more of a Monte Ellis/Beal type then a Harden Type and that we will have to pay him big money before we ever find out.

I'm all for Keeping RHJ on bazemore type money and Levert when his time comes too... but im not sure I want to go like 5/130 for Russell if i can get a lottery pick and 3 years at rookie scale.

If we did that we would REALLY be looking good headed into 2019-2020 with Carroll/Crabbe/Mozgov coming off the books and the only big salary would be RHJ and maybe Levert if extended with The Mayor on like a 4/45 type deal maybe? Also would be able to bring Harris back then.

Dinwiddie | Levert | [ROOKIE] | RHJ | Allen

Whitehead/ROOKIE | Harris | Stauskus | Cunningham | Okafor

MAX + Caproom

first rounder this year - Pick #27 (via Raptors)
first rounder this year - Lotto pick (via team who gets russell)

2020 first - our own we control
2021 first - our own we control

I think there is ALOT of merit to taking this path.

With how marks has drafted giving him 2 picks in this draft and our own pick in 2020 and asking him to find our version of jimmy butler/george/kawai?

I like the odds of Marks being able to draft/sign/trade for our future all-star SF with 3 picks and max cap room then i do giving russell 130 million and hoping it works out

I agree. One of the toughest decisions for a team is determining whether a player is a franchise anchor that you can base your team around or is a pretender that lets your team be a perennial 45 win team but not a true championship team.

For example, someone like Antoine Walker put up gaudy stats, 20+ pts, 8 rbs, 4 ast, and was a 3-time all-star but he did this inefficiently, and the Celtics were never going to win a championship with him, but he kept you on that 45 win treadmill.

To be a championship player, you either have to be solid as a two way player or be extremely good on one side of the ball. All championship teams have two, maybe three, players that eventually will end up as one of the top 50 NBA players in history caliber players.

Will Dlo be that guy, and worth 5/130? It's still early but my gut says no.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Nobody is giving up a lottery pick for D-Lo. The Lakers tried getting that last season and couldn't.

Not happening guys.

Better to see if he can become an all-star caliber player.

If he can't then don't give him a big contract. Nobody else will give up big money anyway in this cap.

[LKIRNets]

the player nets brass may consider trading russell for is chandler hutchinson - this kid is skyrocketing up draft boards & the nets scouts have been spotted at his games this season

Watch on YouTube

this kid is looking like paul george 2.0

Chandler is a projected 2nd rd to 25th pick, he slid down in November. He's been in the mid to low 30's in 3 pt %. I doubt we're trading DLo. Not that I'm against it but I don't see it.

[MrDollarBills]

Hey MDB, don't forget we have a whole new regime in place that does a great job of drafting and analyzing talent, as well as getting good value in trades. You mention us having that dreadful year 12-70 (which I remember too, praying Yi would become the new Chinese Dirk :/ ) and us missing out on the #1 pick. But who else did we avoid and not draft within the top-10? Cousins, Gordon Hayward, and Paul George. I think Marks would've crushed that draft and Kenny would've been amazing at bringing any one of those players along. I think next year we'll be bad and in 19-20 we'll be better, but still drafting around 15. After that we'll have a good group in place I believe. I don't think we'll ever see Marks raise a white year after year like Hinkie did. I have faith in this front office and I think it's deserved from what we've seen so far.

Also Prok, I agree with your lengthy assessment about DLo. It'd have to be a can't miss offer though, like a top 5 pick.

I trust Marks when it comes to drafting. But I will refuse to watch this team tank on purpose.