Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 6

[nevetsov]

I'm team Bender over Chriss.

Team Bender over?

... Oh, Chriss....

[RunDogGun]

I'm team Bender over Chriss.

Team Bender over?

... Oh, Chriss....

[AtheJ415]

It would be stupid to trade #1 for AD because his salary limits you from getting a max in FA. There is an opportunity cost there. You lose the assets and the cap space. If you just take Doncic, he helps you attract a max guy like AD in FA because you could sell him on Doncic, Booker, and Jackson. Then you get the potential star and a sure thing.

[Mulhollanddrive]

The only All-Star Center from the top 6 teams (Al Horford) averages 13 points, 7 rebounds.

Would a top pick / max salary be wasted on the Center position?

[NavLDO]

Spoiler:

Doncic has already have more experience against real comp then anyone else in this draft. I may question a lot of things about Him but lets not pretend he is something he isnt. He has played more games against real professional players then anyone in college.

There is little doubt in my mind Doncic will come in and have immediate impact. I mean, a year and a half ago, when he was 17, his team played the Thunder, and as you can see here, he is playing PG, even guarding Westbrook pretty well early in the video. I mean he was basically leading a team at 17 and playing the Thunder tight...I know it's preseason but still...typically these teams get blown out.

He just looked poised. I just watched Trae Young against Texas and it's safe to say if he went up against Westbrook and a team like the Thunder right now, he'd not look nearly as poised as this guy did a year and a half ago....and since then he led his team to win eurocup.

Watch on YouTube

;t

Read on Twitter

?s=09

I like him, i think he's a 2/3 and don't think it would be prudent to draft another wing when we have good/great players there and gaping holes at other positions when similar tier prospects are available.

I said the same thing, a couple of months ago, before I watched some video of him. He's a gifted PG, as well...like a Simmons as a Point-Forward-type of player...at least he could be, quite easily. If we got him, it would open up tons of possibilities for us, especially knowing now that Booker could handle the rock for short stints, AND we now have Payton, we could run sets, like...

Doncic / Booker / Warren / Bender / Rookie

Payton / Booker / Doncic / Chriss / Bender

Booker / Doncic / JJ / Chriss / Rookie

Payton / Doncic / JJ / Bender / Rookie

Doncic / JJ / Warren / Chriss / Bender

...and so on and so forth...

[nevetsov]

The only All-Star Center from the top 6 teams (Al Horford) averages 13 points, 7 rebounds.

Would a top pick / max salary be wasted on the Center position?

More than likely. Good teams are stacked at 1-4, you NEED quality at those spots to be competitive. You can get by without a star C.

[AtheJ415]

Bender can be our center, and a very good one at that.

[Mulhollanddrive]

2018-2019 Salary Situation:

Knight 15
Chandler 14
Warren 12
Dudley 10
Jackson 6
Draft Pick 6
Bender 5
Daniels 3
Chriss 3
Booker 3
Ulis 2
Reed 1
= 12 Players @ $79m

= Cap Space for 3 Players @ $29m
= Luxury Tax Space for 3 Players @ $51m

[Bogyo]

The only All-Star Center from the top 6 teams (Al Horford) averages 13 points, 7 rebounds.

Would a top pick / max salary be wasted on the Center position?

More than likely. Good teams are stacked at 1-4, you NEED quality at those spots to be competitive. You can get by without a star C.

And this is a phase in the league. There will be a couple of big dudes sooner or later who might make this trend turn around quite a bit. Towns, Embiid, Ayton, etc...

[NavLDO]

The more I think about it, the more I like this trade for the Suns.

I wanted that before the deadline, we needed to bring a PG who could probably be part of our core in the future.

He is good enough to start, but he is perfect as a veteran backup for a rookie PG.

If we are lucky in the draft and we can get Trae or Doncic we can really be set for the future at PG, SG and SF.

PG: Trae or Doncic/ Payton / Ulis
SG: Booker/ Daniels/ Reed
SF: Warren/ Jackson/ Reed

We will need to improve our PF and C position, we need to add at least one big time frontcourt player.

Exactly. And this alleviates my fears -- (whew! Thank goodness for that! Nav's fears are allayed!! ) -- of having a Rookie PG come in and having to attempt to develop with 3 guys that are still trying to learn how to play with a 'regular, NBA-Starter-level-talent-PG', because they have never played with a true Ball distributor. Bledsoe never was; Ulis might be, but he's just NOT a starter-level talent, nor was Canaan (even if he was closer); and Booker is a true SG--not a PG, or even really a Combo Guard. He is NOW, but he wasn't coming in.

Anyway, this gives our guys 25 games or so to play with a true floor general, and I like that. If we can manage to keep him?? Great, even better, but if not, I'm happy to trade a 40th pick for 25 games of more ideal development conditions than what we had.

[NavLDO]

Also how is it remotely possible to give this trade anything but an A? Someone's always gotta be pissing in poor McDs cheerios.

Kind of a double edged sword though. If Payton does play well, maybe he helps the Suns win a few games and thus lowering our draft positioning. He may also put himself in a better position to extract more money from our front office if we decide to keep him this summer.
Had we not traded for him we could just continue rolling out our crappy no PG team and lose by 40 every night. Yeah it sucks, but keeps our tank strong.

So I can definitely see why people may not like the trade.

I'm sorry, but that's just so against being a fan--rooting for your team to lose. I am not saying that it wouldn't be nice to get a high pick this year in the Lottery, but not at the expense of this opportunity to get a solid player for our team that may very well end up landing here long term. A guy who will provide MUCH needed stability at the 'QB' position of the NBA, for our team. And all for a 2nd Rd pick! What is not to like!

Worst case scenario, we lose out on RFA 'bidding', and we lost a 2nd Round pick. Some might say "well, he could get injured, then lose out, and we got nothing!" Well, no one is going to bid on a guy that was injured, so if we want him, he'll be ours. And that will help our precious 'tank'.

Plus, this puts Booker back where he belongs. And now JJ, Chriss, and Bender get 25 games to work with Payton. If we win 5 more games than we would have, and fall from 4th to 8th, so be it, because then that may demonstrate that Payton is a keeper.

I am just outwardly opposed to intentional losing, or intentionally putting a losing product on the floor each night to ensure we lose. This is a great opportunity to see if a young, soon-to-be 24-YO, Former Top-10 pick, Starting PG has what we are looking for long-term for our team.

This was a great trade by McD. Seriously, think about it. A Starting PG, when compared to a recent injury-fill-in selection at the All-Star game who shall remain nameless, has higher per36 stats in Assts, TRB, Stls, Blks, as well as, higher 2PT%, 3PT% (though much lower volume), ORtg, PER, TS%, WS/48, OBPM, DBPM, BPM, and VORP, than the other guy.

Payton is far from perfect, and a relative 'let-down' as a top 10 pick, I'll admit, but he's better than what we've had here in a LONG time, and considering what we 'paid' for BK, how can you NOT like this trade! Especially if he does continue on his development trajectory over the past 2 years.

[Mulhollanddrive]

I think Canaan helped us win more games than Payton will but we'll see.

[NavLDO]

Why is Payton for a 2nd rounder a great deal when most people didn't want him for free in FA?

Ummm...when exactly was Payton ever an UFA???

Or are you talking about fans, because that's completely irrelevant, since no one here makes any decisions for any teams, and as seen over and over, rarely correctly evaluate a player's value/worth correctly via trades or during FA signings, with the exception of knowing that LeBron, Curry, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, etc., are worth the Max.

So, on one hand, you are somewhat right, because of what I just said. We think it's a great deal based upon our perception of his Value, a former Top 10 pick had for the 40th Overall pick. Seems like a great deal.

But on the other hand, I think you are way off base, because he's never been on the open market for UFA, so how do you know that 'most people didn't want him for free'...that's never been an option.

[oddity]

Spoiler:

There is little doubt in my mind Doncic will come in and have immediate impact. I mean, a year and a half ago, when he was 17, his team played the Thunder, and as you can see here, he is playing PG, even guarding Westbrook pretty well early in the video. I mean he was basically leading a team at 17 and playing the Thunder tight...I know it's preseason but still...typically these teams get blown out.

He just looked poised. I just watched Trae Young against Texas and it's safe to say if he went up against Westbrook and a team like the Thunder right now, he'd not look nearly as poised as this guy did a year and a half ago....and since then he led his team to win eurocup.

Watch on YouTube

;t

Read on Twitter

?s=09

I like him, i think he's a 2/3 and don't think it would be prudent to draft another wing when we have good/great players there and gaping holes at other positions when similar tier prospects are available.

I said the same thing, a couple of months ago, before I watched some video of him. He's a gifted PG, as well...like a Simmons as a Point-Forward-type of player...at least he could be, quite easily. If we got him, it would open up tons of possibilities for us, especially knowing now that Booker could handle the rock for short stints, AND we now have Payton, we could run sets, like...

Doncic / Booker / Warren / Bender / Rookie

Payton / Booker / Doncic / Chriss / Bender

Booker / Doncic / JJ / Chriss / Rookie

Payton / Doncic / JJ / Bender / Rookie

Doncic / JJ / Warren / Chriss / Bender

...and so on and so forth...

Also interesting is the possibility of Luka and JJ playing together. Doncic's major weakness now is that plays like a PG on offense yet cannot guard NBA PGs on defense, and one JJ's major strengths is his ability to defend NBA PGs (sometimes). Depending on how Luka's PG skills and JJ's PG defending skills progress, they may compliment each other perfectly. This allows for a Doncic/Booker/Jackson lineup that doesn't give up as much they score on the other end.

[BobbieL]

But of the Suns end up with the fist overall would you even trade that for AD or Kawahi?

Why would you not?

The reasons you might not are length of control (8-9 years vs 2-3) and that it would probably require the #1 and Booker to get a guy like AD. None of our other guys have much trade value imo.

And if the Spurs part with Kawhi, I would fear his injury is not something you want to deal with..obviously something is wrong there.

Anyway, the Pelicans are not trading AD. They have been desperately building around him and have him for 3 more seasons. Why the hell would they trade away a top 10 player that early?

I am with BWG - Ayton is projected to be the top pick or Doncic I guess. Like was said 8 to 9 years of control is a big thing.

I think the Suns can position themselves nicely to be a player in the trade or free agent this summer as well as a player for a max contract next summer.

This summer - especially if the Suns get Ayton or Doncic -
Payton - current cap hold of 10m: even if he shows well, can't expect much more than 7.5 so savings of say 2.5m
Ulis - 1.5m of savings
Len: 8m if renounced
Heat pick - more potential savings, either if the Suns trade up or use it in a trade
and if you have Ayton or Doncic - can trade Bender or Chriss (5 or3m)

Looking at getting close to 20m in cap space - between cap space and players and picks might make a trade, sign and trade (Aaron Gordon) all the while- keeping major flexibility in 2019/2020. If you draft an Ayton or Bamba for Center - you go for a wing in free agency. If you draft Doncic - maybe look at Capela in free agency.

Daniels, Williams, Dudley, Chandler, stretch Knight - that's your max player or VERY close to it: Klay, Kawhi, etc

That would be my two year plan.

[hollywood6964]

The more I think about it, the more I like this trade for the Suns.

I wanted that before the deadline, we needed to bring a PG who could probably be part of our core in the future.

He is good enough to start, but he is perfect as a veteran backup for a rookie PG.

If we are lucky in the draft and we can get Trae or Doncic we can really be set for the future at PG, SG and SF.

PG: Trae or Doncic/ Payton / Ulis
SG: Booker/ Daniels/ Reed
SF: Warren/ Jackson/ Reed

We will need to improve our PF and C position, we need to add at least one big time frontcourt player.

Exactly. And this alleviates my fears -- (whew! Thank goodness for that! Nav's fears are allayed!! ) -- of having a Rookie PG come in and having to attempt to develop with 3 guys that are still trying to learn how to play with a 'regular, NBA-Starter-level-talent-PG', because they have never played with a true Ball distributor. Bledsoe never was; Ulis might be, but he's just NOT a starter-level talent, nor was Canaan (even if he was closer); and Booker is a true SG--not a PG, or even really a Combo Guard. He is NOW, but he wasn't coming in.

Anyway, this gives our guys 25 games or so to play with a true floor general, and I like that. If we can manage to keep him?? Great, even better, but if not, I'm happy to trade a 40th pick for 25 games of more ideal development conditions than what we had.

Short sighted. We should have stayed course. We need that draft pick. We were trending towards the very bottom, %25 ping pong bottom. Now at the finish line, mcdope trips on a banana peel, of course.

To be honest, the absolute best case scenario is this guy somehow blows the **** up, oladipo style, n wants to stay with the team that traded for him. But that's unlikely. He played for a s#!t magic team where he was held back by no one, n had plenty of opportunity to make plays.

More likely he'll play steady, which is light years better than anything we've had, account for a few extra wins (because we were playing straight garbage at pg all season), at least, n take us out of the running.

And this is for a possible rental. And not for a superstar, that we're trying to sway to stay by trading for him last second. Where there's some justified risk.

As far as this development you speak of; there will be no true development, just a few better passes here n there n more for stability for less than a third of a season, making them Look better, not be better.

I just don't see the upside, outside of that unlikely oladipo like scenario. Everyone saying it's low risk/moderate reward. I feel it's moderate risk/low reward, burgeoning on high risk , being the fact that we might go on a bit of a tear, at some point, n win say, 4 of 6. N now we're, let's say, picking 9th instead of 1 or 2.

I would've passed on the trade. N if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But I think everyone here will change their tunes come draft time, n say they were thinking about this all along haha.

[Fo-Real]

Bender can be our center, and a very good one at that.

Not with how soft he is.

[BobbieL]

Rockets are signing Wright and Joe Johnson in the buyout market

Not sure where Belinelli or Tony Allen are going but if I am OKC - I would like a somewhat healthy Allen to replace Roberson

But the Rockets - that team added Tucker and Luc Mbah Moute over the offseason - solid tough veterans - smart, know the role and can defend

Gordon could always be your scorer of the bench now they added Joe Johnson

Wright and Nene are good depth at C off the bench

Houston can score and now they have enough wing defenders: Arizona, Luc, Tucker to go against GSW. Better bench scoring Its too early to say they are better than GSW but the gap has closed considerably.

[Djedefre]

Gotta ask - is it beyond any reasonable doubt that Ayton is '98?

[AtheJ415]

Bender can be our center, and a very good one at that.

Not with how soft he is.

Yes he can. With how well he shoots and how long he is. There aren't "bully-style" 5s who thrive in this league aside from Cousins. Just because Aldridge did well with it when we played the Spurs does not mean it won't work, particularly when they have trouble with it on the other end.

Guys like Adams, who are traditional old-school "hard" centers, simply are not all that good in today's NBA.