2017/2018 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.)

[nykballa2k4]

we are paying kanter, noah, timmy, lee and thomas a combined 73.850.944 $ next season incredible.

Knicks best chance at become even remotely decent are:

Getting lucky enough to get high enough in this draft so that even they can't blow the pick

KP is out until February and the Knicks are a top tank team next year, and KP coming back during the season doesn't produce wins
They hit on the draft a 2nd time. They let Kanter expire but do NOT slot anyone into his salary space. Maybe KOQ gets a raise to 9 millon (+5 million) and Kanter leaves -18 million) and Knicks save 13 million.

They play yet another season, but now KP is back in full and they have two relatively high picks joining him and some combination of THJr\CLee\Frank and/or Burke and/or Mudiay etc and they aren't all that good but not bad and pick in teens.

After 2.5 seasons, Noah, CLee, LFT expire and Knicks have 38 million for FA, + 13 million of KOQ vs Enes savings = 51 million, though in there they have to make a decision on KP, which would what, eat up 1/2 that? They'd still have room for one max cat if he resigns. Which I'm not sure about anymore.

You pretty much hit everything on the nose. That should be the plan but of course won't be the plan.

It is hard to say. In 2 years we may be faced with a chance to move Noah (then expiring) along with Frank (possible George Hill level 21-year old) and the 2019 pick for Lillard during that draft.

Kanter(or O'Quinn either way 12M for the position)/2018 pick (Jaren Jackson jr?)
KP/Beas
FA (Kawhi?)/Lance
Hardaway/Lee/Dots
Lillard/Muddy?Burke?

[Huey Freeman]

Think we can still get Kemba?

I think we can get Isaiah Thomas this summer. MLE? Who would out-bid us?

Why would you want him? NYK won’t even take his agent’s call this summer.

[nykballa2k4]

Think we can still get Kemba?

I think we can get Isaiah Thomas this summer. MLE? Who would out-bid us?

Why would you want him? NYK won’t even take his agent’s call this summer.

I like getting things on sale. IT needs to rehab his image and basically he is the opposite of most -- he has never made starting PG money. If we can get him on something of a "prove it" deal, say 2 years MLE with 2nd year PO, he comes in, makes us look good then as a potential EC we can move him (or use him for the playoff run before he opts out for greater cap space).

[Thugger HBC]

I don't think the team will be looking at any more pg's.

[Huey Freeman]

I think we can get Isaiah Thomas this summer. MLE? Who would out-bid us?

Why would you want him? NYK won’t even take his agent’s call this summer.

I like getting things on sale. IT needs to rehab his image and basically he is the opposite of most -- he has never made starting PG money. If we can get him on something of a "prove it" deal, say 2 years MLE with 2nd year PO, he comes in, makes us look good then as a potential EC we can move him (or use him for the playoff run before he opts out for greater cap space).

The reason for my post was that IT is the diametric opposite of everything NYK brass said they are moving forward to re-building this franchise.

IT doesn’t play defense AND he’s diminutive.

IT will be 30yrs old. Plan is to develop youth

IT is an injury concern with a degenerative hip issue. He’s not as explosive and athletic. Bad investment.

IT was a locker-room problem in CLE. We have a desire to build a better culture here.

IT wants to be The Man per his agent demanding that his client is not coming off the bench. Again, not conducive to culture.

All of this adds up to an unnecessary acquisition for a team that will STILL be a basement team next season. IMHO, it’s more than saving money, there is absolutely NO need for him or his services in NYK next season.

[nykballa2k4]

Why would you want him? NYK won’t even take his agent’s call this summer.

I like getting things on sale. IT needs to rehab his image and basically he is the opposite of most -- he has never made starting PG money. If we can get him on something of a "prove it" deal, say 2 years MLE with 2nd year PO, he comes in, makes us look good then as a potential EC we can move him (or use him for the playoff run before he opts out for greater cap space).

The reason for my post was that IT is the diametric opposite of everything NYK brass said they are moving forward to re-building this franchise.

IT doesn’t play defense.

IT will be 30yrs old. Plan is to develop youth

IT is an injury concern with a degenerative hip issue. Bad investment.

IT was a locker-room problem in CLE. We have a desire to build a better culture here.

IT wants to be The Man per his agent demanding that his client is not coming off the bench. Again, not conducive to culture.

All of this adds up to an unnecessary acquisition for a team that will STILL be a basement team next season. It’s more than money, there is adolutely NO need for him or his services in NYK next season.

1) If it's the opposite of what the brass says then it's certainly happening. 2) IT played well enough defense for the Celtics 3) A 2-year rental on a 30 year old at the MLE is not quite the Noah contract 3) Injury concern is the buy-low angle 4) IT was a locker room bonus in Boston where the culture was 10x better than it's ever been in CLE. 5) IT will be hard pressed to find a starting gig next year let alone a chance to "be the man". Our competition will be what? Orlando?

I don't know what we will be next season, a lot depends on the development of our guys. Since KP won't be around, it will basically be "did we get Porter/Doncic or did we get a level B, C prospect"

It really bugs me that we moved WHG because he would have been fun to watch next season as well.

[thebuzzardman]

Knicks best chance at become even remotely decent are:

Getting lucky enough to get high enough in this draft so that even they can't blow the pick

KP is out until February and the Knicks are a top tank team next year, and KP coming back during the season doesn't produce wins
They hit on the draft a 2nd time. They let Kanter expire but do NOT slot anyone into his salary space. Maybe KOQ gets a raise to 9 millon (+5 million) and Kanter leaves -18 million) and Knicks save 13 million.

They play yet another season, but now KP is back in full and they have two relatively high picks joining him and some combination of THJr\CLee\Frank and/or Burke and/or Mudiay etc and they aren't all that good but not bad and pick in teens.

After 2.5 seasons, Noah, CLee, LFT expire and Knicks have 38 million for FA, + 13 million of KOQ vs Enes savings = 51 million, though in there they have to make a decision on KP, which would what, eat up 1/2 that? They'd still have room for one max cat if he resigns. Which I'm not sure about anymore.

You pretty much hit everything on the nose. That should be the plan but of course won't be the plan.

It is hard to say. In 2 years we may be faced with a chance to move Noah (then expiring) along with Frank (possible George Hill level 21-year old) and the 2019 pick for Lillard during that draft.

Kanter(or O'Quinn either way 12M for the position)/2018 pick (Jaren Jackson jr?)
KP/Beas
FA (Kawhi?)/Lance
Hardaway/Lee/Dots
Lillard/Muddy?Burke?

Of course. It's more that the options to really make things happen don't happen for another 1.5 years. I laid out the draft + FA route. I still made an assumption they move away from Kanter and keep KOQ - that in and of itself could inverse. But I think it'll be one or the other. I also have them waiting until everyone expires, which also an assumption. The Knicks could deal CLee and take a year of salary back for a pick (not likely) and especially use Noah's expiring in some way. I guess the same is true for Kanter, but with KOQ coming into play around the same time it seems like either/or.

[nykballa2k4]

You pretty much hit everything on the nose. That should be the plan but of course won't be the plan.

It is hard to say. In 2 years we may be faced with a chance to move Noah (then expiring) along with Frank (possible George Hill level 21-year old) and the 2019 pick for Lillard during that draft.

Kanter(or O'Quinn either way 12M for the position)/2018 pick (Jaren Jackson jr?)
KP/Beas
FA (Kawhi?)/Lance
Hardaway/Lee/Dots
Lillard/Muddy?Burke?

Of course. It's more that the options to really make things happen don't happen for another 1.5 years. I laid out the draft + FA route. I still made an assumption they move away from Kanter and keep KOQ - that in and of itself could inverse. But I think it'll be one or the other. I also have them waiting until everyone expires, which also an assumption. The Knicks could deal CLee and take a year of salary back for a pick (not likely) and especially use Noah's expiring in some way. I guess the same is true for Kanter, but with KOQ coming into play around the same time it seems like either/or.

Certainly is tough to project because you have to read the tea leaves. If the question is Kanter for 15M or O'Quinn for 11M, you really only have that info after the fact. If Kanter is the better talent (younger I believe as well) and is willing to take 4/40M to stay in one place, then O'Quinn (older, play may deteriorate) who may want 4/48M would look like an albatross in comparison.

The league as a whole makes no sense to me. Courtney Lee's contract being 3 years is a detriment because he uses cap space for so long, but if he were a FA, the same team that asked for a sweetener for his contract will sign, say JJ Redick for a bigger cap number.
Reminds me a bit of

Watch on YouTube

[NYKnicksFTW]

I'd rather sign Papagiannis than Rashad Vaughn, but we should look into both.

[dakomish23]

we are paying kanter, noah, timmy, lee and thomas a combined 73.850.944 $ next season incredible.

Knicks best chance at become even remotely decent are:

Getting lucky enough to get high enough in this draft so that even they can't blow the pick

KP is out until February and the Knicks are a top tank team next year, and KP coming back during the season doesn't produce wins
They hit on the draft a 2nd time. They let Kanter expire but do NOT slot anyone into his salary space. Maybe KOQ gets a raise to 9 millon (+5 million) and Kanter leaves -18 million) and Knicks save 13 million.

They play yet another season, but now KP is back in full and they have two relatively high picks joining him and some combination of THJr\CLee\Frank and/or Burke and/or Mudiay etc and they aren't all that good but not bad and pick in teens.

After 2.5 seasons, Noah, CLee, LFT expire and Knicks have 38 million for FA, + 13 million of KOQ vs Enes savings = 51 million, though in there they have to make a decision on KP, which would what, eat up 1/2 that? They'd still have room for one max cat if he resigns. Which I'm not sure about anymore.

Cap is projected to be 120 in 2020. I had us at 47 when you include all the cap holds, draft picks etc.

We'd be in the 60's if THJ doesn't opt in, which might happen if he has a big 19-20 season & we waive the cap hold.

I didn't count for top 5 picks though. I assumed around the 8th position as we refuse to accept our fate and win 30+ games year after year.

[thebuzzardman]

we are paying kanter, noah, timmy, lee and thomas a combined 73.850.944 $ next season incredible.

Knicks best chance at become even remotely decent are:

Getting lucky enough to get high enough in this draft so that even they can't blow the pick

KP is out until February and the Knicks are a top tank team next year, and KP coming back during the season doesn't produce wins
They hit on the draft a 2nd time. They let Kanter expire but do NOT slot anyone into his salary space. Maybe KOQ gets a raise to 9 millon (+5 million) and Kanter leaves -18 million) and Knicks save 13 million.

They play yet another season, but now KP is back in full and they have two relatively high picks joining him and some combination of THJr\CLee\Frank and/or Burke and/or Mudiay etc and they aren't all that good but not bad and pick in teens.

After 2.5 seasons, Noah, CLee, LFT expire and Knicks have 38 million for FA, + 13 million of KOQ vs Enes savings = 51 million, though in there they have to make a decision on KP, which would what, eat up 1/2 that? They'd still have room for one max cat if he resigns. Which I'm not sure about anymore.

Cap is projected to be 120 in 2020. I had us at 47 when you include all the cap holds, draft picks etc.

We'd be in the 60's if THJ doesn't opt in, which might happen if he has a big 19-20 season & we waive the cap hold.

I didn't count for top 5 picks though. I assumed around the 8th position as we refuse to accept our fate and win 30+ games year after year.

I didn't try to hard to be accurate or account for picks. The main difference in numbers might be I have KOQ staying. Also, I just assumed the cap was the same, even though it should go up.

[dakomish23]

Knicks best chance at become even remotely decent are:

Getting lucky enough to get high enough in this draft so that even they can't blow the pick

KP is out until February and the Knicks are a top tank team next year, and KP coming back during the season doesn't produce wins
They hit on the draft a 2nd time. They let Kanter expire but do NOT slot anyone into his salary space. Maybe KOQ gets a raise to 9 millon (+5 million) and Kanter leaves -18 million) and Knicks save 13 million.

They play yet another season, but now KP is back in full and they have two relatively high picks joining him and some combination of THJr\CLee\Frank and/or Burke and/or Mudiay etc and they aren't all that good but not bad and pick in teens.

After 2.5 seasons, Noah, CLee, LFT expire and Knicks have 38 million for FA, + 13 million of KOQ vs Enes savings = 51 million, though in there they have to make a decision on KP, which would what, eat up 1/2 that? They'd still have room for one max cat if he resigns. Which I'm not sure about anymore.

Cap is projected to be 120 in 2020. I had us at 47 when you include all the cap holds, draft picks etc.

We'd be in the 60's if THJ doesn't opt in, which might happen if he has a big 19-20 season & we waive the cap hold.

I didn't count for top 5 picks though. I assumed around the 8th position as we refuse to accept our fate and win 30+ games year after year.

I didn't try to hard to be accurate or account for picks. The main difference in numbers might be I have KOQ staying. Also, I just assumed the cap was the same, even though it should go up.

Thoughts on THJ opting out? I think it’s more likely that ______________ happens before THJ opts out

[Dr. Detfink]

Knicks need a dynamic guard who can breakdown defense, create his own shot, and distribute without a twitter handle, an entourage, or any BS distractions.

[Toranaga]

http://www.shamsports.com/capulator

Fun tool here.

[BLACKFEET 2010]

we are paying kanter, noah, timmy, lee and thomas a combined 73.850.944 $ next season incredible.

One encouraging aspect of the Wily trade was it showed Steve isn’t going to stand in the way of Scott reshaping the roster because he’d always let it be known Wily was HIS find when scouting KP. It’s probably the only thing we could all unanimously agree he ever did right.
So with that said, is Timmy a keeper here?
Would he let Scott trade him? Think SVG and his dad wouldn’t love having him in Detroit? Miami?

I don’t hate Tim either. He was looking every bit of worth it when we were whole and he found his groove after the early struggles and pressure of living up to the contract. But you gotta wonder. Scott seems very frugal. And I like that here.

We have to find a way out of Lee’s deal and maybe draft night we move him for a late first to a contender. Lance’s deal becomes an asset next year. We are stuck with Jo unless we trade him for a similarly bad contract like Deng or Chandler Parsons (yes.i.would) and there is no way I’d just waive him. But I digress.

Just wondering out loud if Angry Gramps is a real part of the future. 26 (in a month) ain’t 21. I think he’d be maximized as a sixth man on a good team. You don’t pay those guys 17M a year on a rebuild.

[Reign23]

we are paying kanter, noah, timmy, lee and thomas a combined 73.850.944 $ next season incredible.

One encouraging aspect of the Wily trade was it showed Steve isn’t going to stand in the way of Scott reshaping the roster because he’d always let it be known Wily was HIS find when scouting KP. It’s probably the only thing we could all unanimously agree he ever did right.
So with that said, is Timmy a keeper here?
Would he let Scott trade him? Think SVG and his dad wouldn’t love having him in Detroit? Miami?

I don’t hate Tim either. He was looking every bit of worth it when we were whole and he found his groove after the early struggles and pressure of living up to the contract. But you gotta wonder. Scott seems very frugal. And I like that here.

We have to find a way out of Lee’s deal and maybe draft night we move him for a late first to a contender. Lance’s deal becomes an asset next year. We are stuck with Jo unless we trade him for a similarly bad contract like Deng or Chandler Parsons (yes.i.would) and there is no way I’d just waive him. But I digress.

Just wondering out loud if Angry Gramps is a real part of the future. 26 (in a month) ain’t 21. I think he’d be maximized as a sixth man on a good team. You don’t pay those guys 17M a year on a rebuild.

I think timmy is a keeper. but yes we have to get rid of lee's last contract year. cap space in 2019 is important af.

[SARGO127]

A Quick Mock Off-Season

Sign S/F Mario Hezonja with the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level Exception
Re-Sign KOW 3 years/7 mil per
Stretch Joakim Noah after this season
Courtney Lee traded for an expiring, 2nd round pick

Draft:
9. Miles Bridges

Mudiay / Burke
Frank / Hezonja
THJ / Doston
Bridges / LFT
Kanter / KOQ / Kornet

[spree2kawhi]

Knicks need a dynamic guard who can breakdown defense, create his own shot, and distribute without a twitter handle, an entourage, or any BS distractions.

Watching the game yesterday, a Forward with those skills would actually be much more desirable, what do you think?

Overall, there are only very few around the league though, think Kawhi, Durant, PG, LeBum, Giannis, Butler, Hayward+Tatum+Brown... none are available. Even worse options are untouchable: Middleton, Covington, Otto Porter, Wiggins. That's basically it. We should put having Hardaway into such perspective.

Considering that, it's nice to have a draft pick. I'd be scared Doncic might not be the athlete and scorer we need, but I'm confident we'll nail this draft (Edit: if we address that need).

[spree2kawhi]

... Meanwhile Utah develop O'Neale who is really, really impressive, San Antonio roll with Anderson, Paul, Hilliard. The Raptors found depth with Anunoby, Powell and Miles. All those guys would be helpful and I believe they would have been available for us at the deadline, even though miles for example doesn't fit our window. Guess we'll need to be patient.

[msg33]

With the remaining games it would be nice to see a few familiar faces like Thanasis Antetokounmpo and or CleAnthony Early back with the team. Both players never got a real chance prior with the SF glut that was here, while now the team has none unless you consider Hardaway Jr a SF, maybe that is possible why he is struggling