Declined Rookie Options

[d-train]

Alright, I will use examples instead of misusing terminology. Recently, the Sixers didn't pickup Okafor's 4th year option. So, Okafor will be a RFA next summer. The Sixers or a team receiving Okafor via trade has a right to match offers made to their RFA's with full bird rights. However, some say this (right to match) won't apply to Okafor because the max Sixers or a team that acquires Okafor via trade can offer Okafor is rookie scale provided the teams with Okafor's rights have no cap room. I don't know Sixers cap situation, but assume they have no cap room.

I think the part I bolded is causing your confusion. Okafor will be a UFA. In the case of a declined rookie scale team option, the player becomes a UFA, not an RFA.

That one tripped me up a little bit for a while too.

Oh, I thought a player had to have 4 years in the league to be a UFA. So, there is no right to match but is there still full bird rights allowing Okafor's team to make an offer exceeding what would have been rookie scale?

[Smitty731]

Alright, I will use examples instead of misusing terminology. Recently, the Sixers didn't pickup Okafor's 4th year option. So, Okafor will be a RFA next summer. The Sixers or a team receiving Okafor via trade has a right to match offers made to their RFA's with full bird rights. However, some say this (right to match) won't apply to Okafor because the max Sixers or a team that acquires Okafor via trade can offer Okafor is rookie scale provided the teams with Okafor's rights have no cap room. I don't know Sixers cap situation, but assume they have no cap room.

I think the part I bolded is causing your confusion. Okafor will be a UFA. In the case of a declined rookie scale team option, the player becomes a UFA, not an RFA.

That one tripped me up a little bit for a while too.

Oh, I thought a player had to have 4 years in the league to be a UFA. So, there is no right to match but is there still full bird rights allowing Okafor's team to make an offer exceeding what would have been rookie scale?

When a team declines a rookie scale option, they are limited to paying the player the maximum of whatever that rookie scale option was. This closes a loophole of declining an option and signing a player immediately to a new, bigger contract.

Recent example was Austin Rivers. In 2015 he was traded (in a series of deals) to the Clippers after his rookie scale option was declined. The Clippers then re-signed him to an amount equal to his rookie scale option (plus a second year team option) in the summer of 2015. Rivers played out the 2015-16 season on the contract equal to his rookie scale option, then opted out. The Clippers then re-signed Rivers in the summer of 2016 to the larger contract he is on now.

[TheBallDoLie]

I think the part I bolded is causing your confusion. Okafor will be a UFA. In the case of a declined rookie scale team option, the player becomes a UFA, not an RFA.

That one tripped me up a little bit for a while too.

Oh, I thought a player had to have 4 years in the league to be a UFA. So, there is no right to match but is there still full bird rights allowing Okafor's team to make an offer exceeding what would have been rookie scale?

When a team declines a rookie scale option, they are limited to paying the player the maximum of whatever that rookie scale option was. This closes a loophole of declining an option and signing a player immediately to a new, bigger contract.

Recent example was Austin Rivers. In 2015 he was traded (in a series of deals) to the Clippers after his rookie scale option was declined. The Clippers then re-signed him to an amount equal to his rookie scale option (plus a second year team option) in the summer of 2015. Rivers played out the 2015-16 season on the contract equal to his rookie scale option, then opted out. The Clippers then re-signed Rivers in the summer of 2016 to the larger contract he is on now.

Excellent example.

[d-train]

Thanks for the information

[woosah]

I think the part I bolded is causing your confusion. Okafor will be a UFA. In the case of a declined rookie scale team option, the player becomes a UFA, not an RFA.

That one tripped me up a little bit for a while too.

Oh, I thought a player had to have 4 years in the league to be a UFA. So, there is no right to match but is there still full bird rights allowing Okafor's team to make an offer exceeding what would have been rookie scale?

When a team declines a rookie scale option, they are limited to paying the player the maximum of whatever that rookie scale option was. This closes a loophole of declining an option and signing a player immediately to a new, bigger contract.

Recent example was Austin Rivers. In 2015 he was traded (in a series of deals) to the Clippers after his rookie scale option was declined. The Clippers then re-signed him to an amount equal to his rookie scale option (plus a second year team option) in the summer of 2015. Rivers played out the 2015-16 season on the contract equal to his rookie scale option, then opted out. The Clippers then re-signed Rivers in the summer of 2016 to the larger contract he is on now.

So, a question about Mario Hezonja. His option was declined. People seem to think the magic can offer him a contract that is the rookie scale amount for the first year as stipulated by the cba, but then the years after they can offer whatever they want. For example: take 5.2 mil rookie scale first year, next year 10 mil, following year 12 mil, etc...

Can this be done? What is the max the magic can pay him if they try to retain him?

[woosah]

.

So, a question about Mario Hezonja. His option was declined. People seem to think the magic can offer him a contract that is the rookie scale amount for the first year as stipulated by the cba, but then the years after they can offer whatever they want. For example: take 5.2 mil rookie scale first year, next year 10 mil, following year 12 mil, etc...

Can this be done? What is the max the magic can pay him if they try to retain him?

[DBoys]

.

So, a question about Mario Hezonja. His option was declined. People seem to think the magic can offer him a contract that is the rookie scale amount for the first year as stipulated by the cba, but then the years after they can offer whatever they want. For example: take 5.2 mil rookie scale first year, next year 10 mil, following year 12 mil, etc...

Can this be done? What is the max the magic can pay him if they try to retain him?

"Can this be done? " ....Are you talking about him being a free agent in 2018 and signing a contract that specifies all of the above? Or are you talking about a series of one-year contracts that he signs each summer?

[woosah]

.

So, a question about Mario Hezonja. His option was declined. People seem to think the magic can offer him a contract that is the rookie scale amount for the first year as stipulated by the cba, but then the years after they can offer whatever they want. For example: take 5.2 mil rookie scale first year, next year 10 mil, following year 12 mil, etc...

Can this be done? What is the max the magic can pay him if they try to retain him?

"Can this be done? " ....Are you talking about him being a free agent in 2018 and signing a contract that specifies all of the above? Or are you talking about a series of one-year contracts that he signs each summer?

Can the magic offer in one contract to Mario right now the higher salary amounts that basically locks him in this summer to a multi-year deal? So he would not have to opt out and resign, but would be locked in with us for the qualifying offer in the first year, then inflated amounts in subsequent years? We are trying to determine what the maximum deal would look like for him if we tried to offer him a deal with multiple years.

[woosah]

.

So, a question about Mario Hezonja. His option was declined. People seem to think the magic can offer him a contract that is the rookie scale amount for the first year as stipulated by the cba, but then the years after they can offer whatever they want. For example: take 5.2 mil rookie scale first year, next year 10 mil, following year 12 mil, etc...

Can this be done? What is the max the magic can pay him if they try to retain him?

"Can this be done? " ....Are you talking about him being a free agent in 2018 and signing a contract that specifies all of the above? Or are you talking about a series of one-year contracts that he signs each summer?

here is the context if i am still not being clear https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1674422

Does he have to sign only a one year deal? IF he signs for multiple years with the team that declined the option what does that look like?

[Smitty731]

So, a question about Mario Hezonja. His option was declined. People seem to think the magic can offer him a contract that is the rookie scale amount for the first year as stipulated by the cba, but then the years after they can offer whatever they want. For example: take 5.2 mil rookie scale first year, next year 10 mil, following year 12 mil, etc...

Can this be done? What is the max the magic can pay him if they try to retain him?

"Can this be done? " ....Are you talking about him being a free agent in 2018 and signing a contract that specifies all of the above? Or are you talking about a series of one-year contracts that he signs each summer?

here is the context if i am still not being clear https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1674422

Does he have to sign only a one year deal? IF he signs for multiple years with the team that declined the option what does that look like?

He can sign for multiple years, but the starting salary (2018-19) is maxed at the amount of his fourth year rookie scale team option. The Magic can then give him standard raises based off that start salary.

A couple of years ago, this was the case with Austin Rivers. The Clippers re-signed him to a 1+1 deal, starting with his declined rookie scale option amount, with a PO for the second year. Rivers opted out after the first year and then re-signed again to a much higher salary.

[woosah]

"Can this be done? " ....Are you talking about him being a free agent in 2018 and signing a contract that specifies all of the above? Or are you talking about a series of one-year contracts that he signs each summer?

here is the context if i am still not being clear https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1674422

Does he have to sign only a one year deal? IF he signs for multiple years with the team that declined the option what does that look like?

He can sign for multiple years, but the starting salary (2018-19) is maxed at the amount of his fourth year rookie scale team option. The Magic can then give him standard raises based off that start salary.

A couple of years ago, this was the case with Austin Rivers. The Clippers re-signed him to a 1+1 deal, starting with his declined rookie scale option amount, with a PO for the second year. Rivers opted out after the first year and then re-signed again to a much higher salary.

Yes i explained that but people seem to think he can sign for higher money in the years after the rookie scale option year and I keep trying to explain that he would get the predetermined raises if he signs and he cannot go from 5 mil to 10 mil and then standard raises afterward. So can you fill in below, just to be clear, what a 4 year deal would look like?

Year 1: 5.2 mil (rookie scale amount)
year 2: ?
year 3: ?
year 4: ?

[HoopsMalone]

here is the context if i am still not being clear https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1674422

Does he have to sign only a one year deal? IF he signs for multiple years with the team that declined the option what does that look like?

He can sign for multiple years, but the starting salary (2018-19) is maxed at the amount of his fourth year rookie scale team option. The Magic can then give him standard raises based off that start salary.

A couple of years ago, this was the case with Austin Rivers. The Clippers re-signed him to a 1+1 deal, starting with his declined rookie scale option amount, with a PO for the second year. Rivers opted out after the first year and then re-signed again to a much higher salary.

Yes i explained that but people seem to think he can sign for higher money in the years after the rookie scale option year and I keep trying to explain that he would get the predetermined raises if he signs and he cannot go from 5 mil to 10 mil and then standard raises afterward. So can you fill in below, just to be clear, what a 4 year deal would look like?

Year 1: 5.2 mil (rookie scale amount)
year 2: ?
year 3: ?
year 4: ?

pretty sure it would just be standard 7.5% raises. The better question is why in the world orlando would want to do this when they're finally free of him

[woosah]

He can sign for multiple years, but the starting salary (2018-19) is maxed at the amount of his fourth year rookie scale team option. The Magic can then give him standard raises based off that start salary.

A couple of years ago, this was the case with Austin Rivers. The Clippers re-signed him to a 1+1 deal, starting with his declined rookie scale option amount, with a PO for the second year. Rivers opted out after the first year and then re-signed again to a much higher salary.

Yes i explained that but people seem to think he can sign for higher money in the years after the rookie scale option year and I keep trying to explain that he would get the predetermined raises if he signs and he cannot go from 5 mil to 10 mil and then standard raises afterward. So can you fill in below, just to be clear, what a 4 year deal would look like?

Year 1: 5.2 mil (rookie scale amount)
year 2: ?
year 3: ?
year 4: ?

pretty sure it would just be standard 7.5% raises. The better question is why in the world orlando would want to do this when they're finally free of him

I didn't know what the percentage was and i want it from the "cap authorities" for proof. We don't know if they do but he's playing pretty well in the last month or so and some fans want to resign him and so they wanted to know what it would take to do so.

[DBoys]

Assuming your 5.2M number for the 4th year declined option is correct, then ...

Max annual raise
8% of 1st year salary

Max salaries
Yr 1 … 5.2
Yr 2 … 5.616
Yr 3 … 6.032
Yr 4 … 6.448

Max totals
1 Yr … 5.2
2 Yr … 10.816
3 Yr … 16.848
4 yr … 23.296

[woosah]

Assuming your 5.2M number for the 4th year declined option is correct, then ...

Max annual raise
8% of 1st year salary

Max salaries
Yr 1 … 5.2
Yr 2 … 5.616
Yr 3 … 6.032
Yr 4 … 6.448

Max totals
1 Yr … 5.2
2 Yr … 10.816
3 Yr … 16.848
4 yr … 23.296

i am confused at that second group of numbers but we wouldn't give him that anyway.
Thank you!

[Smitty731]

Assuming your 5.2M number for the 4th year declined option is correct, then ...

Max annual raise
8% of 1st year salary

Max salaries
Yr 1 … 5.2
Yr 2 … 5.616
Yr 3 … 6.032
Yr 4 … 6.448

Max totals
1 Yr … 5.2
2 Yr … 10.816
3 Yr … 16.848
4 yr … 23.296

i am confused at that second group of numbers but we wouldn't give him that anyway.
Thank you!

The second is how much in total he would get on a deal of that length.

[UCFJayBird]

"Can this be done? " ....Are you talking about him being a free agent in 2018 and signing a contract that specifies all of the above? Or are you talking about a series of one-year contracts that he signs each summer?

here is the context if i am still not being clear https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1674422

Does he have to sign only a one year deal? IF he signs for multiple years with the team that declined the option what does that look like?

He can sign for multiple years, but the starting salary (2018-19) is maxed at the amount of his fourth year rookie scale team option. The Magic can then give him standard raises based off that start salary.

A couple of years ago, this was the case with Austin Rivers. The Clippers re-signed him to a 1+1 deal, starting with his declined rookie scale option amount, with a PO for the second year. Rivers opted out after the first year and then re-signed again to a much higher salary.

Anywhere we can see this rule written out? Trying to explain it to someone and they're being stubborn that because the option was declined he thinks that means the Magic can offer whatever they have in cap space.

[Smitty731]

here is the context if i am still not being clear https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1674422

Does he have to sign only a one year deal? IF he signs for multiple years with the team that declined the option what does that look like?

He can sign for multiple years, but the starting salary (2018-19) is maxed at the amount of his fourth year rookie scale team option. The Magic can then give him standard raises based off that start salary.

A couple of years ago, this was the case with Austin Rivers. The Clippers re-signed him to a 1+1 deal, starting with his declined rookie scale option amount, with a PO for the second year. Rivers opted out after the first year and then re-signed again to a much higher salary.

Anywhere we can see this rule written out? Trying to explain it to someone and they're being stubborn that because the option was declined he thinks that means the Magic can offer whatever they have in cap space.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q47

Here is the relevant portion:

However, if the team declines either option and the player becomes a free agent, the team cannot re-sign him to a salary greater than he would have received had the team exercised its option. In other words, teams can't decline an option year in order to get around the rookie salary scale and give the player more money. This applies to all types of signings, including the Bird exception, the Mid-Level exception, and cap room.

[woosah]

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q47

Here is the relevant portion:

However, if the team declines either option and the player becomes a free agent, the team cannot re-sign him to a salary greater than he would have received had the team exercised its option. In other words, teams can't decline an option year in order to get around the rookie salary scale and give the player more money. This applies to all types of signings, including the Bird exception, the Mid-Level exception, and cap room.

so still questions:

is this post possible?

Mario’s new base salary can be any amount after 1 more season with Orlando. This is as big a positive for signing in Orlando as the full bird rights perks; 5 year deal, two PO’s, and 8% raises (that only Orlando can offer too).


So some teams might try to get him for like 8 mil of a first year deal to lure him away, but this can easily trap Mario because after one season with a new team he can only get a 5% raise (this is when Orlando can already blow Mario away with a much higher number!), and maybe even after his second season he might be hurt again by the 175% rule.


Here’s the real life example:
Say Mario signs up for 8 mil in Detroit for his first year, 8.5 mil for a second year, then Detroit gives him a new deal here after that year, limited up to 14.8 mil max in his new first year deal (third year total in Detroit)(because of the 175% rule).

Here’s how Orlando counters; Mario signs up for ORL’s offer of 4.9 mil first year, Mario signs up for ORL’s offer of 12 mil new first year (second year total in Orlando). Now at this point Mario has already recouped and beat Detroit’s 16.5 mil deal through two years by staying a UFA with bird rights in Orlando. That 12 mil new first year Orlando deal can then also be a 5 year deal with 8% raises and two PO’s, so once again Mario can reset back to a new contract for like 20 mil as soon as he’s worth it, or keep taking the security of a nice fat deal starting at 12 mil per for many seasons.

On the cba site, it says rookie contracts are different, but people seem to think we still have bird rights and can give higher raises than other teams and an extra year. Maybe you can come to our board and just explain?