Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 6

[RunDogGun]

I want to have Ulis on the roster next season. He is young, cheap and he is a great teammate to have around.

No reason to cut him, he is not an starter player but he can be a good backup or, at least, a third string PG.

I'm generally in favor of cutting him. $1.5 million more in cap space. It's not like he's not replaceable.

I seriously doubt we will cut Ulis. Unless we just REALLY need that roster spot or that $1.5 million in cap space is preventing a transaction.

I think we will need the spot more than the money. We have four draft picks, possibly five depending on ending positions. Payton may have changed things, or a healthy mind changed Knight, who we can’t really trade at this point.

[bwgood77]

I'm generally in favor of cutting him. $1.5 million more in cap space. It's not like he's not replaceable.

I seriously doubt we will cut Ulis. Unless we just REALLY need that roster spot or that $1.5 million in cap space is preventing a transaction.

I think we will need the spot more than the money. We have four draft picks, possibly five depending on ending positions. Payton may have changed things, or a healthy mind changed Knight, who we can’t really trade at this point.

Maybe, but if Len walks and we don't re-sign Peters, and even if we keep Reed, Ulis and Williams, that puts us at 13. So we could add two first round picks to our roster and two second round picks as two way players.

We actually have five picks, unless that Milwaukee pick lands at 17/47. So we could trade one of the other later seconds if we want for a future 2nd. Always good to have an additional second in your pocket the following year if you want to make the type of trade we just did.

[BobbieL]

Even though we are under the cap, it's pretty pathetic looking at our Capulator page and realizing out of our 4 highest paid players who take up over 45% of our payroll, two are not playing at all due to injury, one rarely plays and is in "retirement shape" and the other takes games off regularly because he's too old.

I really wish they had included the amnesty clause again. It would be so nice to get rid of that Knight cap hit.

for being a lousy team - the cap shape is pretty bad

[thamadkant]

Suns cap is horrific because they went flacid in trying to contend.

Bledsoe Knight Chandler and supposedly Aldridge would not have contend... Let alone without Aldridge...


You need to lock in a superstar first and foremost

[Waylay13]

Suns cap is horrific because they went flacid in trying to contend.

Bledsoe Knight Chandler and supposedly Aldridge would not have contend... Let alone without Aldridge...


You need to lock in a superstar first and foremost

I think his name is Devin Booker.

[thamadkant]

Suns cap is horrific because they went flacid in trying to contend.

Bledsoe Knight Chandler and supposedly Aldridge would not have contend... Let alone without Aldridge...


You need to lock in a superstar first and foremost

I think his name is Devin Booker.

What?


They signed Chandler Knight and almost signed Aldridge before Booker was a unveiled to be a cornerstone type player.

Were discussing something in retrospect. Suns have a bad cap for a bottom 2 team.

[RunDogGun]

I seriously doubt we will cut Ulis. Unless we just REALLY need that roster spot or that $1.5 million in cap space is preventing a transaction.

I think we will need the spot more than the money. We have four draft picks, possibly five depending on ending positions. Payton may have changed things, or a healthy mind changed Knight, who we can’t really trade at this point.

Maybe, but if Len walks and we don't re-sign Peters, and even if we keep Reed, Ulis and Williams, that puts us at 13. So we could add two first round picks to our roster and two second round picks as two way players.

We actually have five picks, unless that Milwaukee pick lands at 17/47. So we could trade one of the other later seconds if we want for a future 2nd. Always good to have an additional second in your pocket the following year if you want to make the type of trade we just did.

I guess I was thinking position wise, not so much number of total players. I think we draft a pg in this upcoming draft, so that would be Booker, Reed, Knight, Daniels, draft pick, and possibly Payton at the guard spot without Ulis. With Booker having the ability to run point, and a healthy squad, I don’t see the need for Ulis, who really hasn’t done much of anything this year. A non guaranteed small pg, seems easily replaceable. Heck even Gray looks better at times, and Canaan was better.

So I guess it all depends on what we do in the draft.

[BobbieL]

Using the Sham Sports Capulator - was able to:

Renounce Len and Peters
Waive Ulis
Keep both draft picks
Sign Payton with Bird Rights for 2 years 7.5 and 8.1
Tyreke Evans on the MLE for 3 years

Suns would be at the Cap Level with those three second round draft picks to do something wit

Though I think at this point over Tyreke Evans or lack of a MAJOR deal - call the Hornets, like I said, see what it would cost to get Jeremy Lamb as he is expiring - saves the Hornets 7.5m dollars (Ulis and a future 2nd rounder) - Lamb could bring scoring help off the bench, Suns get another expiring for 19/20 when a lot of dollars can come off the books.

[lilfishi22]

You do understand that Booker is likely going to request his next contract this summer for his own security and it will be likely be 26+ million per year. In other words if you go out and spend what you think you can for someone like Gordon we are going to be way over the cap even with Chandler and Knight come off the books. This doesn't even count resigning Bender, Chriss and Jackson.

I thought somebody came up with a way for Booker to not hit until 2019 so that all things are done in the proper order. Suns have 30+ off the books in 2019: Chandler, Sauce, Daniels and Dudley.

If he will wait to get a new contract it is possible that we might be able to but if you knew you were only one injury from being unable to pay your house payment (remember he brought a 3.5 million house in the valley and his tax rate is around 40%+. so his rookie salary isnt going to pay off the house) would you let it wait? I would love for us to be able to do something but I am scared that even then it is going to be a big crunch on our cap numbers.

Regardless of what he does, his money will not hit this summer.

The difference would when he signs the contract because that would hit our books in 2019 differently.

Option 1. He signs the max extension this off season and all indications is that he will, his max salary of $31m will hit in 2019. So we're going into the 2019 offseason with $31m less in cap room.

Option 2. He decides he's going to do the Suns a GIANT favor, I don't think anyone expects him to and decides to forgo his max extension this year to it next year instead. This in effect gives us an extra 17m in cap room to play with vs if he signed his max extension this offseason. Next offseason his cap hit would be only $13.75m which means we have $17m ($31m-$14m) in extra cap room to sign players before we use his bird rights to go over our cap to sign him to a max deal.

[NavLDO]

Man, I feel like this team is finally really starting to round out personnel wise. I definitely see us going after one of the bigs in this draft. Not sure I'd be in love with putting a 6'9 poor rebounding PF at center though (jjj).

JJJ and Bamba look talented but very raw to me. I think that both are gonna be risky picks, so I would prefer other prospects over them.

Sure but these may be our only options depending on our draft position. They are raw and would need more tutelage behind better players for a year or two.

I don't know, this article sort of sold me...

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/2/6/16976438/jaren-jackson-jr-best-big-man-draft

I know. the author found a topic to write about, and is not going to put much in the way of disputable evidence going against his assertion. But JJJ was barely discussed early on in the process as a potential Top 5 pick, yet now, he's moved ahead of Bamba and a couple others to be seriously considered as a Top 5 pick.

I like the option of having a guy that can play PF or Center equally well, if need be, and have the body/skillset to do either, and not be over-matched either way.

I've seen him listed 6'10" and 6'11" in shoes, but seeing that he's just now 18.4-YO, I suspect the 'smallest' he'll be. I've also seen him listed 225 to 242 lbs. Point being, with his 7'4" Wingspan and 9' Reach, he's big enough to play Center, yet he's mobile enough, and a good enough outside shooter (shooting 42.3% from 3 and 79.1% at the FT line) to play the PF position...a stretch 4 even...which we could use.

I know, I know. We have Bender and Chriss already, but that's the point. I'm convinced Bender can spend some time at the 5, as can Chriss; why lose that flexibility by getting straight Center in the draft. If we could rotate those three in and out, with Sauce thrown in for good measure (as our future, not just next season with Chandler), then that might work out pretty well.

With Elfrid in the fold, I'm hoping Chriss and Bender take some strides. Then we have JJ and Warren. Then Booker and Elfrid, and maybe Reed, depending. Anyway, we can leave the remaining 4 picks to add a PG, SG, and another, more mature big that will help alleviate any immediate issues with young, Jaren's development.

[bwgood77]

I thought somebody came up with a way for Booker to not hit until 2019 so that all things are done in the proper order. Suns have 30+ off the books in 2019: Chandler, Sauce, Daniels and Dudley.

If he will wait to get a new contract it is possible that we might be able to but if you knew you were only one injury from being unable to pay your house payment (remember he brought a 3.5 million house in the valley and his tax rate is around 40%+. so his rookie salary isnt going to pay off the house) would you let it wait? I would love for us to be able to do something but I am scared that even then it is going to be a big crunch on our cap numbers.

Regardless of what he does, his money will not hit this summer.

The difference would when he signs the contract because that would hit our books in 2019 differently.

Option 1. He signs the max extension this off season and all indications is that he will, his max salary of $31m will hit in 2019. So we're going into the 2019 offseason with $31m less in cap room.

Option 2. He decides he's going to do the Suns a GIANT favor, I don't think anyone expects him to and decides to forgo his max extension this year to it next year instead. This in effect gives us an extra 17m in cap room to play with vs if he signed his max extension this offseason. Next offseason his cap hit would be only $13.75m which means we have $17m ($31m-$14m) in extra cap room to sign players before we use his bird rights to go over our cap to sign him to a max deal.

I like the "Do us a GIANT favor" by signing his max deal starting out at $31 million a little later. Typically players will do this when a team would otherwise have cap space because they'd like the team they play on be as good as possible. At least star players typically seem to.

I wouldn't be surprised though if Sarver (and maybe even McD) wanted him to sign it just for some good news and headlines about the team for a little while.

If he does sign the extension McD's best course of upgrading talent (though if we hit the draft right and our players keep developing maybe we don't need a big trade) is to use the Dudley and Chandler contracts (together or separately) along with picks to maybe get upgrades...kind of like Milwaukee did with the Monroe and their pick.

[bwgood77]

JJJ and Bamba look talented but very raw to me. I think that both are gonna be risky picks, so I would prefer other prospects over them.

Sure but these may be our only options depending on our draft position. They are raw and would need more tutelage behind better players for a year or two.

I don't know, this article sort of sold me...

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/2/6/16976438/jaren-jackson-jr-best-big-man-draft

I know. the author found a topic to write about, and is not going to put much in the way of disputable evidence going against his assertion. But JJJ was barely discussed early on in the process as a potential Top 5 pick, yet now, he's moved ahead of Bamba and a couple others to be seriously considered as a Top 5 pick.

I like the option of having a guy that can play PF or Center equally well, if need be, and have the body/skillset to do either, and not be over-matched either way.

I've seen him listed 6'10" and 6'11" in shoes, but seeing that he's just now 18.4-YO, I suspect the 'smallest' he'll be. I've also seen him listed 225 to 242 lbs. Point being, with his 7'4" Wingspan and 9' Reach, he's big enough to play Center, yet he's mobile enough, and a good enough outside shooter (shooting 42.3% from 3 and 79.1% at the FT line) to play the PF position...a stretch 4 even...which we could use.

I know, I know. We have Bender and Chriss already, but that's the point. I'm convinced Bender can spend some time at the 5, as can Chriss; why lose that flexibility by getting straight Center in the draft. If we could rotate those three in and out, with Sauce thrown in for good measure (as our future, not just next season with Chandler), then that might work out pretty well.

With Elfrid in the fold, I'm hoping Chriss and Bender take some strides. Then we have JJ and Warren. Then Booker and Elfrid, and maybe Reed, depending. Anyway, we can leave the remaining 4 picks to add a PG, SG, and another, more mature big that will help alleviate any immediate issues with young, Jaren's development.

Did you listen to the podcast gaspar posted in the draft thread? He talks about that. They talk about Doncic too..compare upside to Larry Bird. It's a pretty short one and plays right on the post if you just click on it.

[Frank Lee]

I don’t think our cap space is bad at all

Of course, I also don’t think we should sign any chunky long deal FA this year as wel. Just draft, play who we have and be set up to deal expirings. Let these other GMs make the mistakes.

[lilfishi22]

If he will wait to get a new contract it is possible that we might be able to but if you knew you were only one injury from being unable to pay your house payment (remember he brought a 3.5 million house in the valley and his tax rate is around 40%+. so his rookie salary isnt going to pay off the house) would you let it wait? I would love for us to be able to do something but I am scared that even then it is going to be a big crunch on our cap numbers.

Regardless of what he does, his money will not hit this summer.

The difference would when he signs the contract because that would hit our books in 2019 differently.

Option 1. He signs the max extension this off season and all indications is that he will, his max salary of $31m will hit in 2019. So we're going into the 2019 offseason with $31m less in cap room.

Option 2. He decides he's going to do the Suns a GIANT favor, I don't think anyone expects him to and decides to forgo his max extension this year to it next year instead. This in effect gives us an extra 17m in cap room to play with vs if he signed his max extension this offseason. Next offseason his cap hit would be only $13.75m which means we have $17m ($31m-$14m) in extra cap room to sign players before we use his bird rights to go over our cap to sign him to a max deal.

I like the "Do us a GIANT favor" by signing his max deal starting out at $31 million a little later. Typically players will do this when a team would otherwise have cap space because they'd like the team they play on be as good as possible. At least star players typically seem to.

I wouldn't be surprised though if Sarver (and maybe even McD) wanted him to sign it just for some good news and headlines about the team for a little while.

If he does sign the extension McD's best course of upgrading talent (though if we hit the draft right and our players keep developing maybe we don't need a big trade) is to use the Dudley and Chandler contracts (together or separately) along with picks to maybe get upgrades...kind of like Milwaukee did with the Monroe and their pick.

I could see Booker doing it. I feel like he's invested enough that he wouldn't outright laugh if we asked him to do it. But I do get the short term benefits for both parties with us getting certainty that he's locked up and that nice fan fare and of course Booker getting security. But it would definitely be in both side's best interest if we want to build a competitive team going forward.

I do think he'll sign the extension this summer though and like you said, we'll need to dangle some 1sts and those ugly contracts hoping for bites.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Bigs generally develop quicker than Point Guards just have a look at last draft.

[AtheJ415]

Suns cap is horrific because they went flacid in trying to contend.

Bledsoe Knight Chandler and supposedly Aldridge would not have contend... Let alone without Aldridge...


You need to lock in a superstar first and foremost

I think his name is Devin Booker.

What?


They signed Chandler Knight and almost signed Aldridge before Booker was a unveiled to be a cornerstone type player.

Were discussing something in retrospect. Suns have a bad cap for a bottom 2 team.

To an extent. I mean the 3 contracts I would consider to be bad are all off the books after next season. That isn't that bad.

[bwgood77]

Regardless of what he does, his money will not hit this summer.

The difference would when he signs the contract because that would hit our books in 2019 differently.

Option 1. He signs the max extension this off season and all indications is that he will, his max salary of $31m will hit in 2019. So we're going into the 2019 offseason with $31m less in cap room.

Option 2. He decides he's going to do the Suns a GIANT favor, I don't think anyone expects him to and decides to forgo his max extension this year to it next year instead. This in effect gives us an extra 17m in cap room to play with vs if he signed his max extension this offseason. Next offseason his cap hit would be only $13.75m which means we have $17m ($31m-$14m) in extra cap room to sign players before we use his bird rights to go over our cap to sign him to a max deal.

I like the "Do us a GIANT favor" by signing his max deal starting out at $31 million a little later. Typically players will do this when a team would otherwise have cap space because they'd like the team they play on be as good as possible. At least star players typically seem to.

I wouldn't be surprised though if Sarver (and maybe even McD) wanted him to sign it just for some good news and headlines about the team for a little while.

If he does sign the extension McD's best course of upgrading talent (though if we hit the draft right and our players keep developing maybe we don't need a big trade) is to use the Dudley and Chandler contracts (together or separately) along with picks to maybe get upgrades...kind of like Milwaukee did with the Monroe and their pick.

I could see Booker doing it. I feel like he's invested enough that he wouldn't outright laugh if we asked him to do it. But I do get the short term benefits for both parties with us getting certainty that he's locked up and that nice fan fare and of course Booker getting security. But it would definitely be in both side's best interest if we want to build a competitive team going forward.

I do think he'll sign the extension this summer though and like you said, we'll need to dangle some 1sts and those ugly contracts hoping for bites.

Well they won't be ugly since they are expiring (unless someone somehow took Knight)....they would be giving a team cap relief plus a first round pick for a good player.

[bwgood77]

I think his name is Devin Booker.

What?


They signed Chandler Knight and almost signed Aldridge before Booker was a unveiled to be a cornerstone type player.

Were discussing something in retrospect. Suns have a bad cap for a bottom 2 team.

To an extent. I mean the 3 contracts I would consider to be bad are all off the books after next season. That isn't that bad.

Well, Knight's doesn't come off until 2020. That's the worst one.

[Mulhollanddrive]

I actually like that our major contracts expire rolling over 3 seasons because if you have $60m in capspace in one go and get it wrong you spend an era trying to dump them and waiting for the next. Also it theoretically triples the pool of big name free agents.

[Kerrsed]

So glad we didnt get stuck with Ball. JESUS! Talk about a **** show with his dad now making threats!

Lakers would be smart to just outright cut the kid before the season ends and watch the rest of the league black ball him as well. Would make a fitting end to the bulls**t Ball Family.