Political Roundtable Part XVIII

[gtn130]

Lol Nate. Complete and utter delusion

[stilldropin20]

He's been writing against Obama since his election. I was quickly able to find an article of his condemning Obama on this issue from March of last year, and it looks like he has been doing so the entire time. So when was he defending Obama?

, I’m with you 100% on this. I cannot believe my eyes when I read the posts multiple people who are flat out burying their heads in the sand on this. I mean it’s like we have flat earthers here of the FISA courts system. They just don’t want to believe what is clear as daylight and right in front of them.

At this point it’s just made it impossible to converse with these posters So I am strictly conversing with Nate and whichever conservatives pop up from time to time or the liberals that might have an open mind about actual evidence that is right in front of them. So maybe DCkings falls into that category . I actually do wish there was a reverse blocking function to where I could block each every liberal on here from even reading my posts at this point. I do not want to interact with you guys at all in anyway shape or form those of you who have not blocked me please do at this point. I will be blocking each and everyone of you over the next couple of days. I’ve come to understand that there just is no ground to cover here between us. at all. So there is no point in subjecting you guys to my posts nor me to yours.

there is no greater issue in politics at all right now other than the 2016 complete subversion and perversion of our legal and justice system while obtaining these fisa warrants. The surveillance that resulted because of these warrants, and most importantly the attempted subversion and perversion of our election cycle by a political opponent using the existing politicallly appointed justice system.

All of which has resulted in what is nothing more than an attempted coup of our duly elected president of United States.

The fact that the media has been complicit in all of this that the mainstream liberal media has been fully complicit in all of this is almost as disgusting.

There is no greater issue. Nothing else matters until this is solved.

I do not understand how anybody could be concerned about anything else. Other than the military, the entire government should be completely frozen and every single asset of the United States government should be used to completely unravel this entire folly of an election cycle. and I don’t care who’s wrong nor who did what. if Trump colluded I’m ready for a perp walk. but it’s becoming very very very clear that he did not. And everything else it was just a set up by a political opponent.

Shame on them. shame on all of them. and shame on anybody who doesn’t think this is important. Shame on any American thinks this is how you win elections. that any of this is OK. There is no need at all for me to converse with anyone on any level that thinks that any of that is OK. I don’t care to know you in anyway shape or form.

Basically, we no longer have a functional government in the United States. The left never stopped to consider why they lost the election and maybe examine the portions of their platform that alienates so much of America. The democrats are a minority in both houses, in most state legislatures, and the presidency, but they still believe they're in charge and have the moral authority to dictate how things are run. Trump is Literally Hitler. Republicans are evil. Any and every method must be used to stop them. Rules don't matter. Reason doesn't matter. Punch a Nazi!

It's obvious to me that even if it's proven beyond any doubt that the FISA warrant could not have been obtained without the deliberate misrepresentation of a completely unsubstantiated document, they won't care. It doesn't matter what rules are broken because Trump must be destroyed. I don't think they're even bothered by the assassination attempt on a Republican Congressman. They're not bothered that white powder was sent to Donnie Jr.'s wife today. Trump Tower is routinely vandalized. Trump supporters were assaulted violently dozens of times during the campaign. Project Veritas confirmed that this type of activity was organized by operatives supporting Clinton. They don't care.

The news media has gone from heavily slanted left to an absolute propaganda machine for the Democrat party. Every rumor of wrongdoing by Trump is inflated, exaggerated, and assumed to be true. Actual wrongdoing by those against Trump is ignored, hidden or justified. Russia leaking information to Clinton cronies about Trump is believed to be true and justification to impeach Trump. Russia leaking information to Trump cronies about Clinton is clearly treason and justification to impeach Trump. The media was blatantly used by Clinton, Steele and the Deep State to broadcast unproven rumors about nefarious Trump behavior to gin up a special prosecutor. Now that the media knows they were used, they're not even upset about it. It was all for a good cause - the destruction of Orange Hitler!

This. 1000 times this. I just don’t understand the world we live in where liberals think the stuff is OK on any level. That what liberals do it this time around conservatives can do the next time around.

Innoway it seems like the Liberals have gone completely mad.Destroying universities because some conservative individual wanted to speak there for an hour. That’s etc. etc. etc. The rules and laws just don’t matter so long as they win.

And by win, they just want to Remain in power so as to borrow into oblivion And in many cases for social platforms for people that are not even American citizens. Yet. Not even here yet. And the weird thing ...the really really really weird thing is that it’s only when I travel abroad or live abroad do I still see extreme forms of racism I mean out right for fledged racism I see it in Dominican republic I see it in Mexico I see it in Eastern Europe And big time in the Middle East. And it’s the liberals that want to taking immigrants or refugees from these places. And want to borrow into a Bolivian to support those kind of policies . Because it’s just votes for them it’s just a means to stay in power and at this point the means justify the ends no matter the destruction that occurs along the way.

Crazy ass world we live in where “Americans “ support that crap. Wow.

[montestewart]

This is only an 8 second snippet so MAYBE it's taken out of context ...but on first glance...

Read on Twitter

Wyatt Earp, Buford Pusser, Buford T Justice, other people named Buford...I don't see what the problem is.

Edit to Add: I forgot about the Sheriff of Nottingham

[closg00]

He's been writing against Obama since his election. I was quickly able to find an article of his condemning Obama on this issue from March of last year, and it looks like he has been doing so the entire time. So when was he defending Obama?

, I’m with you 100% on this. I cannot believe my eyes when I read the posts multiple people who are flat out burying their heads in the sand on this. I mean it’s like we have flat earthers here of the FISA courts system. They just don’t want to believe what is clear as daylight and right in front of them.

At this point it’s just made it impossible to converse with these posters So I am strictly conversing with Nate and whichever conservatives pop up from time to time or the liberals that might have an open mind about actual evidence that is right in front of them. So maybe DCkings falls into that category . I actually do wish there was a reverse blocking function to where I could block each every liberal on here from even reading my posts at this point. I do not want to interact with you guys at all in anyway shape or form those of you who have not blocked me please do at this point. I will be blocking each and everyone of you over the next couple of days. I’ve come to understand that there just is no ground to cover here between us. at all. So there is no point in subjecting you guys to my posts nor me to yours.

there is no greater issue in politics at all right now other than the 2016 complete subversion and perversion of our legal and justice system while obtaining these fisa warrants. The surveillance that resulted because of these warrants, and most importantly the attempted subversion and perversion of our election cycle by a political opponent using the existing politicallly appointed justice system.

All of which has resulted in what is nothing more than an attempted coup of our duly elected president of United States.

The fact that the media has been complicit in all of this that the mainstream liberal media has been fully complicit in all of this is almost as disgusting.

There is no greater issue. Nothing else matters until this is solved.

I do not understand how anybody could be concerned about anything else. Other than the military, the entire government should be completely frozen and every single asset of the United States government should be used to completely unravel this entire folly of an election cycle. and I don’t care who’s wrong nor who did what. if Trump colluded I’m ready for a perp walk. but it’s becoming very very very clear that he did not. And everything else it was just a set up by a political opponent.

Shame on them. shame on all of them. and shame on anybody who doesn’t think this is important. Shame on any American thinks this is how you win elections. that any of this is OK. There is no need at all for me to converse with anyone on any level that thinks that any of that is OK. I don’t care to know you in anyway shape or form.

This is a HOF post right here. Very enjoyable read!

HOF post, no-doubt. Let's dust this post off in the future when Mueller is done.

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

[cammac]

, I’m with you 100% on this. I cannot believe my eyes when I read the posts multiple people who are flat out burying their heads in the sand on this. I mean it’s like we have flat earthers here of the FISA courts system. They just don’t want to believe what is clear as daylight and right in front of them.

At this point it’s just made it impossible to converse with these posters So I am strictly conversing with Nate and whichever conservatives pop up from time to time or the liberals that might have an open mind about actual evidence that is right in front of them. So maybe DCkings falls into that category . I actually do wish there was a reverse blocking function to where I could block each every liberal on here from even reading my posts at this point. I do not want to interact with you guys at all in anyway shape or form those of you who have not blocked me please do at this point. I will be blocking each and everyone of you over the next couple of days. I’ve come to understand that there just is no ground to cover here between us. at all. So there is no point in subjecting you guys to my posts nor me to yours.

there is no greater issue in politics at all right now other than the 2016 complete subversion and perversion of our legal and justice system while obtaining these fisa warrants. The surveillance that resulted because of these warrants, and most importantly the attempted subversion and perversion of our election cycle by a political opponent using the existing politicallly appointed justice system.

All of which has resulted in what is nothing more than an attempted coup of our duly elected president of United States.

The fact that the media has been complicit in all of this that the mainstream liberal media has been fully complicit in all of this is almost as disgusting.

There is no greater issue. Nothing else matters until this is solved.

I do not understand how anybody could be concerned about anything else. Other than the military, the entire government should be completely frozen and every single asset of the United States government should be used to completely unravel this entire folly of an election cycle. and I don’t care who’s wrong nor who did what. if Trump colluded I’m ready for a perp walk. but it’s becoming very very very clear that he did not. And everything else it was just a set up by a political opponent.

Shame on them. shame on all of them. and shame on anybody who doesn’t think this is important. Shame on any American thinks this is how you win elections. that any of this is OK. There is no need at all for me to converse with anyone on any level that thinks that any of that is OK. I don’t care to know you in anyway shape or form.

This is a HOF post right here. Very enjoyable read!

HOF post, no-doubt. Let's dust this post off in the future when Mueller is done.

The Bromance between SD20 & Nate continues maybe they can get matching outfits with MAGA baseball caps.

[Pointgod]

Read this if you care whatsoever about the rule of law and how the process was abused in the FISA warrant process. This is the biggest scandal of our time. It is easily worse than Watergate. And Andrew McCarthy is no hack. He is a former U.S. Attorney. He was actually defending the Obama Administration when this scandal was first coming out.

Read on Twitter

Lol this is the same right wing drivel that's been trotted out since the Dumbass Devin's memo landed with a flop. Again answer me this Nate, was the dossier the only information that was used to obtain the Fisa warrant? That's the only way this argument holds up. This whole thing has been thoroughly debunked.

https://qz.com/1197014/all-the-holes-in-the-nunes-memo-about-the-trump-dossier/

[Pointgod]

This is only an 8 second snippet so MAYBE it's taken out of context ...but on first glance...

Read on Twitter

He said was supposed to say the racist part quiet and the quiet part loud.

[doclinkin]

Isn’t the mob kinda legal in Russia? How is that money laundering? They don’t sell drugs, they just run the place.

Last I checked the mob isn’t legal in the US and if Trump is laundering money from the ill gotten gains of the Russian mob that is illegal for a myriad of reasons.

That doesn't make any sense. There is no US mob in Russia and therefore no law to break. Only money laundering, but laundering of what? The Russian mob makes money from oil and natural gas, not drugs.

Extortion, strong-arming people out of real estate to buy on the cheap, arms sales, human trafficking, cyber crime, mass identity theft, yes drugs, gambling, blackmail, etc. But how they launder money in New York is thru real estate. After Japan's economy was shaken up in the 80's there were basically two main sources of investment in New York Real Estate in the 90's and 00's: China and the Russian Mafia.

[Zonkerbl]

Last I checked the mob isn’t legal in the US and if Trump is laundering money from the ill gotten gains of the Russian mob that is illegal for a myriad of reasons.

That doesn't make any sense. There is no US mob in Russia and therefore no law to break. Only money laundering, but laundering of what? The Russian mob makes money from oil and natural gas, not drugs.

Extortion, strong-arming people out of real estate to buy on the cheap, arms sales, human trafficking, cyber crime, mass identity theft, yes drugs, gambling, blackmail, etc. But how they launder money in New York is thru real estate. After Japan's economy was shaken up in the 80's there were basically two main sources of investment in New York Real Estate in the 90's and 00's: China and the Russian Mafia.

Ok, but those are all Russian laws being broken on Russian soil. How is that any of our business? Why do we even care? How is a Russian real estate transaction by a Russian oligarch different than a Japanese real estate transaction? What US law is the Russian breaking? It's all very opaque to me.

[closg00]

Read this if you care whatsoever about the rule of law and how the process was abused in the FISA warrant process. This is the biggest scandal of our time. It is easily worse than Watergate. And Andrew McCarthy is no hack. He is a former U.S. Attorney. He was actually defending the Obama Administration when this scandal was first coming out.

Lol this is the same right wing drivel that's been trotted out since the Dumbass Devin's memo landed with a flop. Again answer me this Nate, was the dossier the only information that was used to obtain the Fisa warrant? That's the only way this argument holds up. This whole thing has been thoroughly debunked.

https://qz.com/1197014/all-the-holes-in-the-nunes-memo-about-the-trump-dossier/

Great read, I love facts

[doclinkin]

, I’m with you 100% on this. I cannot believe my eyes when I read the posts multiple people who are flat out burying their heads in the sand on this. I mean it’s like we have flat earthers here of the FISA courts system. They just don’t want to believe what is clear as daylight and right in front of them.

At this point it’s just made it impossible to converse with these posters So I am strictly conversing with Nate and whichever conservatives pop up from time to time or the liberals that might have an open mind about actual evidence that is right in front of them. So maybe DCkings falls into that category . I actually do wish there was a reverse blocking function to where I could block each every liberal on here from even reading my posts at this point. I do not want to interact with you guys at all in anyway shape or form those of you who have not blocked me please do at this point. I will be blocking each and everyone of you over the next couple of days. I’ve come to understand that there just is no ground to cover here between us. at all. So there is no point in subjecting you guys to my posts nor me to yours.

there is no greater issue in politics at all right now other than the 2016 complete subversion and perversion of our legal and justice system while obtaining these fisa warrants. The surveillance that resulted because of these warrants, and most importantly the attempted subversion and perversion of our election cycle by a political opponent using the existing politicallly appointed justice system.

All of which has resulted in what is nothing more than an attempted coup of our duly elected president of United States.

The fact that the media has been complicit in all of this that the mainstream liberal media has been fully complicit in all of this is almost as disgusting.

There is no greater issue. Nothing else matters until this is solved.

I do not understand how anybody could be concerned about anything else. Other than the military, the entire government should be completely frozen and every single asset of the United States government should be used to completely unravel this entire folly of an election cycle. and I don’t care who’s wrong nor who did what. if Trump colluded I’m ready for a perp walk. but it’s becoming very very very clear that he did not. And everything else it was just a set up by a political opponent.

Shame on them. shame on all of them. and shame on anybody who doesn’t think this is important. Shame on any American thinks this is how you win elections. that any of this is OK. There is no need at all for me to converse with anyone on any level that thinks that any of that is OK. I don’t care to know you in anyway shape or form.

Basically, we no longer have a functional government in the United States. The left never stopped to consider why they lost the election and maybe examine the portions of their platform that alienates so much of America. The democrats are a minority in both houses, in most state legislatures, and the presidency, but they still believe they're in charge and have the moral authority to dictate how things are run. Trump is Literally Hitler. Republicans are evil. Any and every method must be used to stop them. Rules don't matter. Reason doesn't matter. Punch a Nazi!

It's obvious to me that even if it's proven beyond any doubt that the FISA warrant could not have been obtained without the deliberate misrepresentation of a completely unsubstantiated document, they won't care. It doesn't matter what rules are broken because Trump must be destroyed. I don't think they're even bothered by the assassination attempt on a Republican Congressman. They're not bothered that white powder was sent to Donnie Jr.'s wife today. Trump Tower is routinely vandalized. Trump supporters were assaulted violently dozens of times during the campaign. Project Veritas confirmed that this type of activity was organized by operatives supporting Clinton. They don't care.

The news media has gone from heavily slanted left to an absolute propaganda machine for the Democrat party. Every rumor of wrongdoing by Trump is inflated, exaggerated, and assumed to be true. Actual wrongdoing by those against Trump is ignored, hidden or justified. Russia leaking information to Clinton cronies about Trump is believed to be true and justification to impeach Trump. Russia leaking information to Trump cronies about Clinton is clearly treason and justification to impeach Trump. The media was blatantly used by Clinton, Steele and the Deep State to broadcast unproven rumors about nefarious Trump behavior to gin up a special prosecutor. Now that the media knows they were used, they're not even upset about it. It was all for a good cause - the destruction of Orange Hitler!

This. 1000 times this. I just don’t understand the world we live in where liberals think the stuff is OK on any level. That what liberals do it this time around conservatives can do the next time around.

Innoway it seems like the Liberals have gone completely mad.Destroying universities because some conservative individual wanted to speak there for an hour. That’s etc. etc. etc. The rules and laws just don’t matter so long as they win.

And by win, they just want to Remain in power so as to borrow into oblivion And in many cases for social platforms for people that are not even American citizens. Yet. Not even here yet. And the weird thing ...the really really really weird thing is that it’s only when I travel abroad or live abroad do I still see extreme forms of racism I mean out right for fledged racism I see it in Dominican republic I see it in Mexico I see it in Eastern Europe And big time in the Middle East. And it’s the liberals that want to taking immigrants or refugees from these places. And want to borrow into a Bolivian to support those kind of policies . Because it’s just votes for them it’s just a means to stay in power and at this point the means justify the ends no matter the destruction that occurs along the way.

Crazy ass world we live in where “Americans “ support that crap. Wow.

This is what bugs me about all of this. That the divide between reasonable people in this country (my man SD20 excluded of course he knows he is throwing bombs and just loves to cause bunched panties by the benchload) the divide is so stark and fiercely delineated, that we are at a Hatfield and McCoy level of blood feud and have been since George W Bush v. Al Gore. There is no room for compromise as each side feels righteous moral rage at positions held by the other. Nate cites republican majorities in politics after gerrymandering as if it were manifest destiny. But Hillary won the popular vote. As did Al Gore. The fact that the outcome is so close in each of these changeovers ought to mean we look more carefully for common ground.

We joke about secession in a thread like this, but the fact that we are paralyzed to conduct the business of governance is no joke. That seems calculated. And that is the danger of allowing Russia in particular but even non state entities like I don't care 4chan or even powerful monied interests (media corporations, Koch brothers and other billionaires, whatever) to get loose to play with the toolbox of our governance: democracy.

We all pretty much like the concepts of a Republic (that we are a Union of states, and that each local people knows their region best and ought to have a real say on what matters for that regional subdivision), and also we all believe in Democracy: that each individual person ought to have a say in the direction of our country. We can differ in how we get there. But it should not get to the level of calling each other evil. And you should question whatever source you read if it makes you think that way about the opposition.

Now, I hate Trump with a violent passion, but I have hated him long before he landed in politics. I was in New York in the 80's and 90's, I saw the rent riots and heard anecdotally about his strongarm tactics to clear out his daddies buildings and knew of girls actors and model types who he groped and cornered at coke fueled parties. Even those who support him know he's a bloviating amoral egotist who was born a spoiled rich kid and has been bailed out a ridiculous number of times by borrowing from whomever would lend it to him.

Still it is maybe admirable that his powerful egotism has allowed him to brand himself a winner and by obdurate will to make it so. That sort of self faith is one of the drivers of this country and is why his immigrant ancestors were able to make that massive fortune. They left Germany and bet on themselves to make it here in America.

But damn is he a divisive figure. And damn are we divided. IF there WERE a candidate whose presidency were sure to be a shaped charge to blow apart our ability to make decisions and function as a country, I can't imagine a candidate more effective at doing so than Donald Trump.

I think rather than get stuck in the weeds of wherever this Mueller thing is going (follow the money, I think some dirty things will show if ever Trumps tax returns are released, but I also think you have to know he has hidden his tracks well there, hired the best money weasels he could find) I think it is more important for us to think about where we want our country to go. How do we get there. What are we afraid of. How can we work on those fears or buy them off. because the way we are headed is dangerous and it seems to me there are powerful outside interests who are enjoying the helloutta our flailing and failures. Russia is one, but there are many others who like to see the powerful fall without really foreseeing the consequences of what happens after that.

[verbal8]

Are MAGA hats available in tin foil?

Asking for a friend.

[Zonkerbl]

Some interesting ideas here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/trump-administration-wants-to-sell-national-and-dulles-airports-other-assets-around-us/2018/02/12/3cff381e-100a-11e8-9065-e55346f6de81_story.html?utm_term=.8b0774d54c03

[Zonkerbl]

I’m not really joking about secession.

[stilldropin20]

Basically, we no longer have a functional government in the United States. The left never stopped to consider why they lost the election and maybe examine the portions of their platform that alienates so much of America. The democrats are a minority in both houses, in most state legislatures, and the presidency, but they still believe they're in charge and have the moral authority to dictate how things are run. Trump is Literally Hitler. Republicans are evil. Any and every method must be used to stop them. Rules don't matter. Reason doesn't matter. Punch a Nazi!

It's obvious to me that even if it's proven beyond any doubt that the FISA warrant could not have been obtained without the deliberate misrepresentation of a completely unsubstantiated document, they won't care. It doesn't matter what rules are broken because Trump must be destroyed. I don't think they're even bothered by the assassination attempt on a Republican Congressman. They're not bothered that white powder was sent to Donnie Jr.'s wife today. Trump Tower is routinely vandalized. Trump supporters were assaulted violently dozens of times during the campaign. Project Veritas confirmed that this type of activity was organized by operatives supporting Clinton. They don't care.

The news media has gone from heavily slanted left to an absolute propaganda machine for the Democrat party. Every rumor of wrongdoing by Trump is inflated, exaggerated, and assumed to be true. Actual wrongdoing by those against Trump is ignored, hidden or justified. Russia leaking information to Clinton cronies about Trump is believed to be true and justification to impeach Trump. Russia leaking information to Trump cronies about Clinton is clearly treason and justification to impeach Trump. The media was blatantly used by Clinton, Steele and the Deep State to broadcast unproven rumors about nefarious Trump behavior to gin up a special prosecutor. Now that the media knows they were used, they're not even upset about it. It was all for a good cause - the destruction of Orange Hitler!

This. 1000 times this. I just don’t understand the world we live in where liberals think the stuff is OK on any level. That what liberals do it this time around conservatives can do the next time around.

Innoway it seems like the Liberals have gone completely mad.Destroying universities because some conservative individual wanted to speak there for an hour. That’s etc. etc. etc. The rules and laws just don’t matter so long as they win.

And by win, they just want to Remain in power so as to borrow into oblivion And in many cases for social platforms for people that are not even American citizens. Yet. Not even here yet. And the weird thing ...the really really really weird thing is that it’s only when I travel abroad or live abroad do I still see extreme forms of racism I mean out right for fledged racism I see it in Dominican republic I see it in Mexico I see it in Eastern Europe And big time in the Middle East. And it’s the liberals that want to taking immigrants or refugees from these places. And want to borrow into a Bolivian to support those kind of policies . Because it’s just votes for them it’s just a means to stay in power and at this point the means justify the ends no matter the destruction that occurs along the way.

Crazy ass world we live in where “Americans “ support that crap. Wow.

This is what bugs me about all of this. That the divide between reasonable people in this country (my man SD20 excluded of course he knows he is throwing bombs and just loves to cause bunched panties by the benchload) the divide is so stark and fiercely delineated, that we are at a Hatfield and McCoy level of blood feud and have been since George W Bush v. Al Gore. There is no room for compromise as each side feels righteous moral rage at positions held by the other. Nate cites republican majorities in politics after gerrymandering as if it were manifest destiny. But Hillary won the popular vote. As did Al Gore. The fact that the outcome is so close in each of these changeovers ought to mean we look more carefully for common ground.

We joke about secession in a thread like this, but the fact that we are paralyzed to conduct the business of governance is no joke. That seems calculated. And that is the danger of allowing Russia in particular but even non state entities like I don't care 4chan or even powerful monied interests (media corporations, Koch brothers and other billionaires, whatever) to get loose to play with the toolbox of our governance: democracy.

We all pretty much like the concepts of a Republic (that we are a Union of states, and that each local people knows their region best and ought to have a real say on what matters for that regional subdivision), and also we all believe in Democracy: that each individual person ought to have a say in the direction of our country. We can differ in how we get there. But it should not get to the level of calling each other evil. And you should question whatever source you read if it makes you think that way about the opposition.

Now, I hate Trump with a violent passion, but I have hated him long before he landed in politics. I was in New York in the 80's and 90's, I saw the rent riots and heard anecdotally about his strongarm tactics to clear out his daddies buildings and knew of girls actors and model types who he groped and cornered at coke fueled parties. Even those who support him know he's a bloviating amoral egotist who was born a spoiled rich kid and has been bailed out a ridiculous number of times by borrowing from whomever would lend it to him.

Still it is maybe admirable that his powerful egotism has allowed him to brand himself a winner and by obdurate will to make it so. That sort of self faith is one of the drivers of this country and is why his immigrant ancestors were able to make that massive fortune. They left Germany and bet on themselves to make it here in America.

But damn is he a divisive figure. And damn are we divided. IF there WERE a candidate whose presidency were sure to be a shaped charge to blow apart our ability to make decisions and function as a country, I can't imagine a candidate more effective at doing so than Donald Trump.

I think rather than get stuck in the weeds of wherever this Mueller thing is going (follow the money, I think some dirty things will show if ever Trumps tax returns are released, but I also think you have to know he has hidden his tracks well there, hired the best money weasels he could find) I think it is more important for us to think about where we want our country to go. How do we get there. What are we afraid of. How can we work on those fears or buy them off. because the way we are headed is dangerous and it seems to me there are powerful outside interests who are enjoying the helloutta our flailing and failures. Russia is one, but there are many others who like to see the powerful fall without really foreseeing the consequences of what happens after that.

while i certainly indulge myself as an entertainer of (sorts) and keeping my reader entertained is a priority, the basis of everything I write is on sound logic and reason...save for moments when i am solely straight up "trolling" for the collective fun.

Overall, I agree with the gist of your post. I think you are calling for common ground. Common sense. So for more logic, reason, and negotiating and less drawing of lines in the sand. I assume you suggest those things because you understand that we the collective human "race of americans" are going to fix this country. Its ours. We are "stuck." We have to fix it by ourselves not our elected nor unelected officials. Its on us, folks. It really is. We have a system that while decent is many regards and great in others is still flawed. For better or worse or by design or not, we left the door open for special interests to control our officialsand they can do right or wrong with that control. Many of our greatest officials tried to close those doors and many of them were (literally) assassinated or viciously attacked in liberal media which of course was owned by the financially elite then just as it is now. Weird, I know. Think about that, folks. The elite Wealthy class that puts their thumbs on our political systems also control all of our liberal media. They also own and control a lion's share of largest and wealthiest corporations. Hmmmmm? Open borders...something something...A continuous supply of cheap labor anyone? middle class be damned!

And not to get lost in the weeds on gerrymandering that you brought up but both sides have been gerrymandering going back centuries. And up until Fox (20 years ago) all media was essentially liberal media. You had left or far-left "journalists." So whats worse? gerrymandering your mind or some lines on a map? because I'm not too sure. Actually I am pretty sure. And its unclear who started it and it doesn't matter as political parties have significantly modified. What we do know is that outside of mostly large and small cities, that over 80% (of the actual land coverage) of the entire united states is habituated by conservatives. Some political road maps have that % as high as 85% depending on the year. We should all pause and think about that. Density of the cities be damned for just a second. We should all pause and "consider" that nearly 65% the county on population is conservative. And the conservative coverage on land mass is 80-85% of the entire terrain is habituated by conservatives. In terms of high schools, more than 80% of our high schools are in conservative rural areas more than 70% of our american born students grow up in conservative towns or suburbs with conservative parents and therefore conservative ideologies.

So what's that mean? Many things. Here are some:

1. Its in these rural areas where your food is grown and farmed. Over 90% of your(urban liberals in general) fresh water rivers and lakes are surrounded by rural areas and the runoff from their land feeds those rivers. Do city folk think they are simply going to import that stuff? Transport that stuff? and it not cost a significantly larger portion of your pay check? I mean I'm literally sitting back and waiting for the day where farmers say that all meat now costs $400.00 per pound. I'm wondering how that will affect the "cities." The same for all grains, all crops. it will affect everything. Tobacco. Alcohol. Cotton. I'm waiting for the day when the farmers say they are not selling their food to anyone but themselves. Or better, when their local governments decide to heavily tax these urban treasures like crops, livestock, uranium, coal, oil. etc. Ya know, they CAN do that. It would be legal. They can likely tax any interstate trains and autos and excessively high rates as well. And TBH, I dont think they give a fuq about seeing Hamilton or the Wizards that badly.

2. let's assume you find a way to import and transport that "stuff." what about your trash? All the trash dumps are now way beyond city and suburban parts. they have to be. Where are you going to put your trash? Elon Musk going to rocket it away for you? Cool. the rocket stations are also in rural areas. Then what? your big city money is going to buy up farm land, huh? That's your answer? It doesn't matter. Those local, rural governments will still be in control which means the people that live there still in control and can tax the shxt out of you. You think your cities are expensive now??



3. Its in these areas where your uranium mines exist(for energy and bombs). Your coal. Your oil. Iron ore. everything. Even most power plants are built way outside of most cities and their surrounding suburbs.

4. Most manufacturing plants are now and have been in small towns or almost medium sized towns. Conservative towns.

5. what exactly do cities have to leverage against rural areas? Google? Media? basketball teams? Football? (They dont give a fuq about the NYT's or CNN!) car dealerships? (The manufacturing plants are already in the small towns.) What is the big export from cities to small towns that cities can actually hold hostage? Because media has gone wireless, i dont think you can nor would want to keep them from it as liberal use media to control their narrative. So for all this secession talk which I'm 100% in agreement... and I would gladly move and park my azz back in a small town. I'd buy a decent farm, buy or build the local titty bar, build a few dental practices and enjoy my self sufficient government and enjoy watching cites self implode. It would be the 30's and the 70's and 80's all over again when big cities became of bastions of self destruction and despair.

Small towns can build there own airports and shipping centers. IN fact most shipping centers are already in the far suburbs and even further out small towns which are already conservative habituated.

So in terms of secession, I dont think the down staters will caucus with the cities to secede. So you would end up with city states. Which i like. But if its "us against them," I'm moving to a more rural area.

The military, when I was in, was 4-1 (small town-city kids). Police(even in big cities) are nearly 8-2 conservative-liberal.

I mean...I'm a full-blown social liberal. I dont think its possible to be any more socially liberal than I am. I live in downtown chicago. I'm a doctor. I develop small urban real estate projects. Which means I create a relatively large carbon foot print and therefore I am fully aware of how ridiculous liberals are. its big cities that are destroying the earth. Big cities that release all the carbon. Big city corporate owned "farmers" and their seed partners like monsantos (dupont) that in their quest for efficiency to feed the "cities" are destroying the earth and micro ecosystems which are effecting larger eco-systems. City folk are heating up the earth. etc etc. City folk are the azzholes! Not the other way around. If you dont think so take a trip to NYC then take a trip to Billings montana. You will quickly figure out who is nice and who treats you like a piece a dog shxt.

Even though I am a liberal, at least I can admit that liberals are big effing babies. Cry babies. Hypocrites. Liars, cheaters, frauds. Probably because we are severely emotionally under-developed as a whole...and probably...because wealthy urban and suburban americans coddle their children like no other human beings on planet earth. Poor city folk fall in the opposite direction . Instead of over coddling, they are not even ready to have children and expect "the village" to take care of their children. To literally pay for all of the expenses of raising that child. Combined we urban/suburban folk lack reason. Self control. and make way too many decisions based almost solely on emotion. Decisions that are better served made with logic and reason. Liberals have therefore lost the ability to negotiate. They want what they want and think they are entitled to get it. Where Small town rural conservatives raise their kids differently. they are driving tractors at 10. cars at 12. and working 40 hours per week or more at the same ages. I know. I partially grew up in a small town. Money is scare. labor is scare. and there is always a job that needs to get done. And small town kids get those jobs done. Its small town kids that join the military. that commute 2 plus hours to the cities to work at 16 years old. In the greatest of ironies its the small town kids often end up in liberal universities. its here, in these (what has become ridiculously liberal) universities that these same small town kids and conservative suburban kids get brainwashed into thinking mom and dad and grandpa are crazy. And they develop some weird sense of guilt because they worked hard, and got into the school, and eventually got the job that somehow they should be giving large portions of their pay checks away for liberal programs like to support people that are not even american citizens (who came here illegally)...when we already have vast amounts of extremely poor american citizens right here both in our cities and in our small towns. And these small town kids, in their 20's and 30's often never stop to ask themselves why. Not until they are about pushing 50 years old. Sometimes 60. Then it slowly hits them that Mom and dad and grandpa weren't that crazy after all. There really is no such thing as "free." Everything costs something.


And at some point rural folks are going to stop being so nice about it. They are going to wake up and realize that they have the "stuff" like "all the land" that is absolutely more difficult to come by. and what they have costs far more than what "we" have and everything "we" have like shipping ports can be easily built or "flown in." And in a way that's part of the beauty of being "rural." You dont consume as much, anyway. You are not overly busy keeping up with the jones', so they will simply manufacture their own goods and be more self sufficient. They wont over grow. they wont wear out their crop soil. They dont need china. they dont want china. Northern farmers will make trade deals with southern farmers. Both will agree to cut out the cities. they simply dont need the "cities."

So enjoy the secession, cuz i will be stuck watching. like a train wreck. and only then, i fear, will liberals finally be ready to negotiate.

[montestewart]

Spoiler:

Basically, we know longer have a functional government in the United States. The left never stopped to consider why they lost the election and maybe examine the portions of their platform that alienates so much of America. The democrats are a minority in both houses, in most state legislatures, and the presidency, but they still believe they're in charge and have the moral authority to dictate how things are run. Trump is Literally Hitler. Republicans are evil. Any and every method must be used to stop them. Rules don't matter. Reason doesn't matter. Punch a Nazi!

It's obvious to me that even if it's proven beyond any doubt that the FISA warrant could not have been obtained without the deliberate misrepresentation of a completely unsubstantiated document, they won't care. It doesn't matter what rules are broken because Trump must be destroyed. I don't think they're even bothered by the assassination attempt on a Republican Congressman. They're not bothered that white powder was sent to Donnie Jr.'s wife today. Trump Tower is routinely vandalized. Trump supporters were assaulted violently dozens of times during the campaign. Project Veritas confirmed that this type of activity was organized by operatives supporting Clinton. They don't care.

The news media has gone from heavily slanted left to an absolute propaganda machine for the Democrat party. Every rumor of wrongdoing by Trump is inflated, exaggerated, and assumed to be true. Actual wrongdoing by those against Trump is ignored, hidden or justified. Russia leaking information to Clinton cronies about Trump is believed to be true and justification to impeach Trump. Russia leaking information to Trump cronies about Clinton is clearly treason and justification to impeach Trump. The media was blatantly used by Clinton, Steele and the Deep State to broadcast unproven rumors about nefarious Trump behavior to gin up a special prosecutor. Now that the media knows they were used, they're not even upset about it. It was all for a good cause - the destruction of Orange Hitler!

This. 1000 times this. I just don’t understand the world we live in where liberals think the stuff is OK on any level. That what liberals do it this time around conservatives can do the next time around.

Innoway it seems like the Liberals have gone completely mad.Destroying universities because some conservative individual wanted to speak there for an hour. That’s etc. etc. etc. The rules and laws just don’t matter so long as they win.

And by win, they just want to Remain in power so as to borrow into oblivion And in many cases for social platforms for people that are not even American citizens. Yet. Not even here yet. And the weird thing ...the really really really weird thing is that it’s only when I travel abroad or live abroad do I still see extreme forms of racism I mean out right for fledged racism I see it in Dominican republic I see it in Mexico I see it in Eastern Europe And big time in the Middle East. And it’s the liberals that want to taking immigrants or refugees from these places. And want to borrow into a Bolivian to support those kind of policies . Because it’s just votes for them it’s just a means to stay in power and at this point the means justify the ends no matter the destruction that occurs along the way.

Crazy ass world we live in where “Americans “ support that crap. Wow.

This is what bugs me about all of this. That the divide between reasonable people in this country (my man SD20 excluded of course he knows he is throwing bombs and just loves to cause bunched panties by the benchload) the divide is so stark and fiercely delineated, that we are at a Hatfield and McCoy level of blood feud and have been since George W Bush v. Al Gore. There is no room for compromise as each side feels righteous moral rage at positions held by the other. Nate cites republican majorities in politics after gerrymandering as if it were manifest destiny. But Hillary won the popular vote. As did Al Gore. The fact that the outcome is so close in each of these changeovers ought to mean we look more carefully for common ground.

We joke about secession in a thread like this, but the fact that we are paralyzed to conduct the business of governance is no joke. That seems calculated. And that is the danger of allowing Russia in particular but even non state entities like I don't care 4chan or even powerful monied interests (media corporations, Koch brothers and other billionaires, whatever) to get loose to play with the toolbox of our governance: democracy.

We all pretty much like the concepts of a Republic (that we are a Union of states, and that each local people knows their region best and ought to have a real say on what matters for that regional subdivision), and also we all believe in Democracy: that each individual person ought to have a say in the direction of our country. We can differ in how we get there. But it should not get to the level of calling each other evil. And you should question whatever source you read if it makes you think that way about the opposition.

Now, I hate Trump with a violent passion, but I have hated him long before he landed in politics. I was in New York in the 80's and 90's, I saw the rent riots and heard anecdotally about his strongarm tactics to clear out his daddies buildings and knew of girls actors and model types who he groped and cornered at coke fueled parties. Even those who support him know he's a bloviating amoral egotist who was born a spoiled rich kid and has been bailed out a ridiculous number of times by borrowing from whomever would lend it to him.

Still it is maybe admirable that his powerful egotism has allowed him to brand himself a winner and by obdurate will to make it so. That sort of self faith is one of the drivers of this country and is why his immigrant ancestors were able to make that massive fortune. They left Germany and bet on themselves to make it here in America.

But damn is he a divisive figure. And damn are we divided. IF there WERE a candidate whose presidency were sure to be a shaped charge to blow apart our ability to make decisions and function as a country, I can't imagine a candidate more effective at doing so than Donald Trump.

I think rather than get stuck in the weeds of wherever this Mueller thing is going (follow the money, I think some dirty things will show if ever Trumps tax returns are released, but I also think you have to know he has hidden his tracks well there, hired the best money weasels he could find) I think it is more important for us to think about where we want our country to go. How do we get there. What are we afraid of. How can we work on those fears or buy them off. because the way we are headed is dangerous and it seems to me there are powerful outside interests who are enjoying the helloutta our flailing and failures. Russia is one, but there are many others who like to see the powerful fall without really foreseeing the consequences of what happens after that.

Finally, the People's Mod strolls into the room!

[cammac]

It seems that the Trumpster wants to cut the State Department by 25% in his new budget! Why give diplomacy a chance when the military needs another 80 billion and my "Wall" needs 25 Billion isn't that diplomacy. Yesterday The Trumpster and his best Bro Putin had a little conversation! Unknown to even the "State Media" Fox.

Russian President Vladimir Putin on Monday told Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas that American President Donald Trump had authorized the Russian leader to speak on his behalf.

According to a Reuters report, Abbas and Putin spoke about the U.S. role in Mideast peace negotiations during a conference in Moscow.

We state that from now on we refuse to cooperate in any form with the U.S. in its status of a mediator, as we stand against its actions,” Abbas said.

Putin revealed during the meeting that he “had just spoken by telephone with U.S. President Donald Trump,” Reuters reported.

“Naturally we spoke about the Palestinian-Israeli settlement,” Putin said, telling Abbas: “I would like to convey to you his best wishes.”

Putin also commented that stability in the region is “far from what we want to see.

You can now understand why the State Department can be cut by 25% because the work can now be offshored to Russia.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/2/12/1740909/-Putin-Says-Trump-Authorized-Him-to-Give-Message-to-PLO

[TGW]

Hey Pointgod--watch this video, and then watch it again. Just one reason why your "vote Democrat down the line" rhetoric is silly and doesn't solve anything if you're a true believer of democratic principles:

Watch on YouTube

;t=461s

[gtn130]

Read on Twitter

lol